- TS believes MagicAmy is one person and is actually Hyerim Lee
- They investigated the accusations extensively and determined there was no case of fraud in regards to her interactions with TS, but the matter was still a major personal issue between her and those accusing her
- No proof found for win trading/botting/account sharing allegations
- TempoStorm offered to support MagicAmy to have her play in an offline tournament to clear her rep but she chose to leave the scene instead.
So basically, TS investigation concluded that MagicAmy was in fact not a scammer, but she chose to leave anyway.
On February 20 2015 19:04 Pokebunny wrote: - TempoStorm offered to support MagicAmy to have her play in an offline tournament to clear her rep but she chose to leave the scene instead.
This is incredibly suspicious. Interesting damage control, but this still feels like Hearthstone's Vera Lynn.
so she got a chance to settle things once and for all and chose the backdoor out.. well, this doesn't prove anything, including her innocence. it could be that she just doesn't care anymore and doesn't want to bother with clearing her HS name but... the way i see it is if she has nothing to hide she might as well have done this one tournament to shut everyone up and then left with a clear rep if that's what she really wanted. now i can't help but think the drama is true.
On February 20 2015 19:43 chocomaro wrote: am i going to get banned if i say my opinion and that this doesn't seem legit and i think there's lies in those statements?
On February 20 2015 19:54 Kabras wrote: so she got a chance to settle things once and for all and chose the backdoor out.. well, this doesn't prove anything, including her innocence. it could be that she just doesn't care anymore and doesn't want to bother with clearing her HS name but... the way i see it is if she has nothing to hide she might as well have done this one tournament to shut everyone up and then left with a clear rep if that's what she really wanted. now i can't help but think the drama is true.
If you think everyone would have shut up and let bygones be bygones just because she participated in this one tournament, you're delusional.
i don't believe it too. i also think they are doing damage control. but i don't care about that much, i just love the whole matter. i do not need a conclusion. i was amused, i had fun and i can not take reynad serious, he is such a salty tryhard and i love it.
On February 20 2015 19:54 Kabras wrote: so she got a chance to settle things once and for all and chose the backdoor out.. well, this doesn't prove anything, including her innocence. it could be that she just doesn't care anymore and doesn't want to bother with clearing her HS name but... the way i see it is if she has nothing to hide she might as well have done this one tournament to shut everyone up and then left with a clear rep if that's what she really wanted. now i can't help but think the drama is true.
If you think everyone would have shut up and let bygones be bygones just because she participated in this one tournament, you're delusional.
it would have been something at least. and since there's no actual proof against her and she would've done that tourney there would have been very little reason for people to keep the drama going. ofc there's always gonna be the guy who stirs shit up just for the sake of it which nobody can ever shut up, but doing that tourney and showing solid play would have been enough for most people i think.
On February 20 2015 19:54 Kabras wrote: so she got a chance to settle things once and for all and chose the backdoor out.. well, this doesn't prove anything, including her innocence. it could be that she just doesn't care anymore and doesn't want to bother with clearing her HS name but... the way i see it is if she has nothing to hide she might as well have done this one tournament to shut everyone up and then left with a clear rep if that's what she really wanted. now i can't help but think the drama is true.
If you think everyone would have shut up and let bygones be bygones just because she participated in this one tournament, you're delusional.
it would have been something at least. and since there's no actual proof against her and she would've done that tourney there would have been very little reason for people to keep the drama going. ofc there's always gonna be the guy who stirs shit up just for the sake of it which nobody can ever shut up, but doing that tourney and showing solid play would have been enough for most people i think.
tl;dr "prove your innocence" or "if she was innocent, what is she hiding?"
So, that's at least 2 competitive female players the user base has chased out of the competitive scene.
On February 20 2015 20:24 litlnoobs wrote: As we see, no matter the conclusions Chakki et. al have already deemed her guilty based merely on amateur internet sleuthing.
So now, MagicAmy is out a team and has her reputation ruined, and Chakki et. al still stream with even more followers than before.
Magicamy didn't do anything to counter the accusations publicly. She just up and left despite having her team willing to back her up and help disprove them.
Polite way to get rid of her while allowing her to save face. Very nice from TempoStorm, not sure if Amy deserved it after all the shenanigans she did.
On February 20 2015 20:24 litlnoobs wrote: As we see, no matter the conclusions Chakki et. al have already deemed her guilty based merely on amateur internet sleuthing.
So now, MagicAmy is out a team and has her reputation ruined, and Chakki et. al still stream with even more followers than before.
Magicamy didn't do anything to counter the accusations. She just up and left despite having her team willing to back her up and help disprove them.
Noone to blame but herself for being off a team
...She has no reason to "prove" her innocence to some random dude who decided to stalk her accounts. Dude, listen to yourself, this is Glenn Beck level of mind gymnastics you're performing.
On February 20 2015 19:54 Kabras wrote: so she got a chance to settle things once and for all and chose the backdoor out.. well, this doesn't prove anything, including her innocence. it could be that she just doesn't care anymore and doesn't want to bother with clearing her HS name but... the way i see it is if she has nothing to hide she might as well have done this one tournament to shut everyone up and then left with a clear rep if that's what she really wanted. now i can't help but think the drama is true.
If you think everyone would have shut up and let bygones be bygones just because she participated in this one tournament, you're delusional.
it would have been something at least. and since there's no actual proof against her and she would've done that tourney there would have been very little reason for people to keep the drama going. ofc there's always gonna be the guy who stirs shit up just for the sake of it which nobody can ever shut up, but doing that tourney and showing solid play would have been enough for most people i think.
Because people needed proof to begin with? Seriously dude what color is the sky on your planet? People don't need reasons to stir up drama. I mean look at you. They dug through employment records, travel records, everything they could find and found no evidence that MagicAmy isn't who she said she is. But because she opted out of the bullshit (which anyone with a passing acquaintance with reality knows she'd get), you're now more convinced than ever that she was a fraud.
On February 20 2015 19:54 Kabras wrote: so she got a chance to settle things once and for all and chose the backdoor out.. well, this doesn't prove anything, including her innocence. it could be that she just doesn't care anymore and doesn't want to bother with clearing her HS name but... the way i see it is if she has nothing to hide she might as well have done this one tournament to shut everyone up and then left with a clear rep if that's what she really wanted. now i can't help but think the drama is true.
If you think everyone would have shut up and let bygones be bygones just because she participated in this one tournament, you're delusional.
and since there's no actual proof against her and she would've done that tourney there would have been very little reason for people to keep the drama going
Oh come on you can't be serious on that one. Say she goes out in the first or second round which could happen easily enough regardless if she's actually the person who played the entire time or not you'd seriously suggest it would end with that.
On February 20 2015 20:24 litlnoobs wrote: As we see, no matter the conclusions Chakki et. al have already deemed her guilty based merely on amateur internet sleuthing.
So now, MagicAmy is out a team and has her reputation ruined, and Chakki et. al still stream with even more followers than before.
Magicamy didn't do anything to counter the accusations. She just up and left despite having her team willing to back her up and help disprove them.
Noone to blame but herself for being off a team
...She has no reason to "prove" her innocence to some random dude who decided to stalk her accounts. Dude, listen to yourself, this is Glenn Beck level of mind gymnastics you're performing.
In the world of public figures (and do not kid yourself here, Magicamy was a public figure) when you're accused of something you have to disprove it or your assumed guilty of the accusation.
On February 20 2015 20:24 litlnoobs wrote: As we see, no matter the conclusions Chakki et. al have already deemed her guilty based merely on amateur internet sleuthing.
So now, MagicAmy is out a team and has her reputation ruined, and Chakki et. al still stream with even more followers than before.
Magicamy didn't do anything to counter the accusations publicly. She just up and left despite having her team willing to back her up and help disprove them.
Noone to blame but herself for being off a team
I love this logic. MagicAmy does....apparently nothing...but some people decide that she's not who she says she is because reasons, riling up the whole community and causing her team to treat her like a damn criminal. And she leaves the scene because, who the hell would want to deal with this shit? And it's HER fault? Really?
On February 20 2015 19:54 Kabras wrote: so she got a chance to settle things once and for all and chose the backdoor out.. well, this doesn't prove anything, including her innocence. it could be that she just doesn't care anymore and doesn't want to bother with clearing her HS name but... the way i see it is if she has nothing to hide she might as well have done this one tournament to shut everyone up and then left with a clear rep if that's what she really wanted. now i can't help but think the drama is true.
If you think everyone would have shut up and let bygones be bygones just because she participated in this one tournament, you're delusional.
it would have been something at least. and since there's no actual proof against her and she would've done that tourney there would have been very little reason for people to keep the drama going. ofc there's always gonna be the guy who stirs shit up just for the sake of it which nobody can ever shut up, but doing that tourney and showing solid play would have been enough for most people i think.
Because people needed proof to begin with? Seriously dude what color is the sky on your planet? People don't need reasons to stir up drama. I mean look at you. They dug through employment records, travel records, everything they could find and found no evidence that MagicAmy isn't who she said she is. But because she opted out of the bullshit (which anyone with a passing acquaintance with reality knows she'd get), you're now more convinced than ever that she was a fraud.
opting out of the bullshit or dodging being exposed? which one is it? how do u know? the only thing that i am now convinced of is that ur a salty white knight who doesn't deserve anymore of my keyboard's lifetime. gl.
Stop responding to them. They have this SJW narrative they will shout to the ends of the earth. They don't care about her scamming people or dodging questions. They only care about her being a woman and thus oppressed by the patriarchy.
On February 20 2015 20:24 litlnoobs wrote: As we see, no matter the conclusions Chakki et. al have already deemed her guilty based merely on amateur internet sleuthing.
So now, MagicAmy is out a team and has her reputation ruined, and Chakki et. al still stream with even more followers than before.
Magicamy didn't do anything to counter the accusations. She just up and left despite having her team willing to back her up and help disprove them.
Noone to blame but herself for being off a team
...She has no reason to "prove" her innocence to some random dude who decided to stalk her accounts. Dude, listen to yourself, this is Glenn Beck level of mind gymnastics you're performing.
In the world of public figures (and do not kid yourself here, Magicamy was a public figure) when you're accused of something you have to disprove it or your assumed guilty of the accusation.
That is the fault of people who don't understand how reality works, not the public figure's.
On February 20 2015 20:47 Numy wrote: Stop responding to them. They have this SJW narrative they will shout to the ends of the earth. They don't care about her scamming people or dodging questions. They only care about her being a woman and thus oppressed by the patriarchy.
Jesus are people retarded it would be exactly the same situation for a guy.
So she is legit and leaving becouse Specialist who is not legit says she is not legit This is crazy. Why is she leaving? Hosty was not legit and he is still featured streamer here.
So it seems that nonlegit persons stay in the HS bussiness and legit are out ?
On February 20 2015 20:24 litlnoobs wrote: As we see, no matter the conclusions Chakki et. al have already deemed her guilty based merely on amateur internet sleuthing.
So now, MagicAmy is out a team and has her reputation ruined, and Chakki et. al still stream with even more followers than before.
Magicamy didn't do anything to counter the accusations. She just up and left despite having her team willing to back her up and help disprove them.
Noone to blame but herself for being off a team
...She has no reason to "prove" her innocence to some random dude who decided to stalk her accounts. Dude, listen to yourself, this is Glenn Beck level of mind gymnastics you're performing.
In the world of public figures (and do not kid yourself here, Magicamy was a public figure) when you're accused of something you have to disprove it or your assumed guilty of the accusation.
You're the reason that shitty tabloids still make money...
On February 20 2015 20:24 litlnoobs wrote: As we see, no matter the conclusions Chakki et. al have already deemed her guilty based merely on amateur internet sleuthing.
So now, MagicAmy is out a team and has her reputation ruined, and Chakki et. al still stream with even more followers than before.
Magicamy didn't do anything to counter the accusations publicly. She just up and left despite having her team willing to back her up and help disprove them.
Noone to blame but herself for being off a team
I love this logic. MagicAmy does....apparently nothing...but some people decide that she's not who she says she is because reasons, riling up the whole community and causing her team to treat her like a damn criminal. And she leaves the scene because, who the hell would want to deal with this shit? And it's HER fault? Really?
So apparently participating in offline tournaments you qualified for or got invited to which is part of the job she signed up for in team Tempo Storm is now 'being treated like a criminal'. That is of course assuming that this opportunity isn't just a part of TS's damage control. If it isn't then I can really not understand why you would blame the team for parting with her. They signed her up as part of their roster to participate in tournament and if she doesn't want to be doing that for whatever reason then leaving seems to be the natural consequence.
On February 20 2015 20:24 litlnoobs wrote: As we see, no matter the conclusions Chakki et. al have already deemed her guilty based merely on amateur internet sleuthing.
So now, MagicAmy is out a team and has her reputation ruined, and Chakki et. al still stream with even more followers than before.
Magicamy didn't do anything to counter the accusations publicly. She just up and left despite having her team willing to back her up and help disprove them.
Noone to blame but herself for being off a team
I love this logic. MagicAmy does....apparently nothing...but some people decide that she's not who she says she is because reasons, riling up the whole community and causing her team to treat her like a damn criminal. And she leaves the scene because, who the hell would want to deal with this shit? And it's HER fault? Really?
So apparently participating in offline tournaments you qualified for or got invited to which is part of the job she signed up for in team Tempo Storm is now 'being treated like a criminal'. That is of course assuming that this opportunity isn't just a part of TS's damage control. If it isn't then I can really not understand why you would blame the team for parting with her. They signed her up as part of their roster to participate in tournament and if she doesn't want to be doing that for whatever reason then leaving seems to be the natural consequence.
The difference is that now her entire career and reputation relies on her performing well. If she has an off day, doesn't perform, makes a mistake and doesn't do well then she's "confirmed" as a fraud. It'd be gambling her lifestyle on the results of 1 tournament.
On February 20 2015 19:54 Kabras wrote: so she got a chance to settle things once and for all and chose the backdoor out.. well, this doesn't prove anything, including her innocence. it could be that she just doesn't care anymore and doesn't want to bother with clearing her HS name but... the way i see it is if she has nothing to hide she might as well have done this one tournament to shut everyone up and then left with a clear rep if that's what she really wanted. now i can't help but think the drama is true.
If you think everyone would have shut up and let bygones be bygones just because she participated in this one tournament, you're delusional.
it would have been something at least. and since there's no actual proof against her and she would've done that tourney there would have been very little reason for people to keep the drama going. ofc there's always gonna be the guy who stirs shit up just for the sake of it which nobody can ever shut up, but doing that tourney and showing solid play would have been enough for most people i think.
Because people needed proof to begin with? Seriously dude what color is the sky on your planet? People don't need reasons to stir up drama. I mean look at you. They dug through employment records, travel records, everything they could find and found no evidence that MagicAmy isn't who she said she is. But because she opted out of the bullshit (which anyone with a passing acquaintance with reality knows she'd get), you're now more convinced than ever that she was a fraud.
opting out of the bullshit or dodging being exposed? which one is it? how do u know? the only thing that i am now convinced of is that ur a salty white knight who doesn't deserve anymore of my keyboard's lifetime. gl.
This drama is quite a fun. At first I was very sceptic, but with more information coming out, i am now conviced there was definately something shady going on. To me there is no reason for her to back out without a fight unless; a) She is guilty b) She is scared of being a publicly known person. In this case she couldn't be a proplayer anyways so the outcome os the same. I don't believe option b is true in this case. People like Piegasm should stop playing a white knight here. She got what she deserved (and chose) no matter if she was guilty or not...
Lot of shadow in this story : How many times canadian guy used "magicamy" to speak to the community or was it Hyerim all the time ? How far was involve Tarei in magicamy success ? Were there others pro helping her ? Who wrote magicamy tier list ? What is Hyerim's real skill and knowledge of hearthstone ? Was Jaedong playing for her when she won multiple times against Savior in ZvZ ? and the biggest mystery : Are people trolling when they say that Hyerim can be innocent ???
You people suck. Really. Nothing was proven and you still acted like it was a clear case. After being condemned by the community and popular streamers wihtout proof you idiots actually have the balls to go "Oh so we can't prove you guilty, now come here and dance for me so I can claim you are still guilty if you don't win tournaments", and you are suprised when she opts out.
A big part of this community are just herd animals mindlessly repeating the same tired lines over and over in twitch chat, getting shocked out of your poor little minds everytime you see a girl on stream. Who would want to be around you?
On February 20 2015 20:24 litlnoobs wrote: As we see, no matter the conclusions Chakki et. al have already deemed her guilty based merely on amateur internet sleuthing.
So now, MagicAmy is out a team and has her reputation ruined, and Chakki et. al still stream with even more followers than before.
Magicamy didn't do anything to counter the accusations. She just up and left despite having her team willing to back her up and help disprove them.
Noone to blame but herself for being off a team
...She has no reason to "prove" her innocence to some random dude who decided to stalk her accounts. Dude, listen to yourself, this is Glenn Beck level of mind gymnastics you're performing.
In the world of public figures (and do not kid yourself here, Magicamy was a public figure) when you're accused of something you have to disprove it or your assumed guilty of the accusation.
You're the reason that shitty tabloids still make money...
This is the perfect analogy actually. Reddit is our source of tabloid trash. And just like tabloid trash it's unfair, usually completely biased and full of half truths. We in Esports love our drama and scandals just as much as the general public loves their celebrity scandals and drama.
I wanted Magicamy to be innocent. Based on the evidence available to me, it just didn't seem that way.
On February 20 2015 21:36 ddayzy wrote: You people suck. Really. Nothing was proven and you still acted like it was a clear case. After being condemned by the community and popular streamers wihtout proof you idiots actually have the balls to go "Oh so we can't prove you guilty, now come here and dance for me so I can claim you are still guilty if you don't win tournaments", and you are suprised when she opts out.
A big part of this community are just herd animals mindlessly repeating the same tired lines over and over in twitch chat, getting shocked out of your poor little minds everytime you see a girl on stream. Who would want to be around you?
You're no different the the mindless herd either. You spout the same shit all the other white knights do. And the spouted nonsense doesn't in anyway, shape or form disprove the allegations against Magicamy.
The evidence compiled against her may not be the greatest or clearest or whatever but at the end of the day, its there.
On February 20 2015 20:24 litlnoobs wrote: As we see, no matter the conclusions Chakki et. al have already deemed her guilty based merely on amateur internet sleuthing.
So now, MagicAmy is out a team and has her reputation ruined, and Chakki et. al still stream with even more followers than before.
Magicamy didn't do anything to counter the accusations publicly. She just up and left despite having her team willing to back her up and help disprove them.
Noone to blame but herself for being off a team
I love this logic. MagicAmy does....apparently nothing...but some people decide that she's not who she says she is because reasons, riling up the whole community and causing her team to treat her like a damn criminal. And she leaves the scene because, who the hell would want to deal with this shit? And it's HER fault? Really?
So apparently participating in offline tournaments you qualified for or got invited to which is part of the job she signed up for in team Tempo Storm is now 'being treated like a criminal'. That is of course assuming that this opportunity isn't just a part of TS's damage control. If it isn't then I can really not understand why you would blame the team for parting with her. They signed her up as part of their roster to participate in tournament and if she doesn't want to be doing that for whatever reason then leaving seems to be the natural consequence.
The difference is that now her entire career and reputation relies on her performing well. If she has an off day, doesn't perform, makes a mistake and doesn't do well then she's "confirmed" as a fraud. It'd be gambling her lifestyle on the results of 1 tournament.
Whereas the alternative of quitting without trying to perform in that tournament also costs her that lifestyle/carreer. It's not really gambling if not doing it costs the same as loosing. I won't rule out that she might be innocent and fed up with it or just generally unwilling to go out there but I don't think there would have been much of a future in progaming for her anyway.
On February 20 2015 21:33 sacade wrote: Lot of shadow in this story : How many times canadian guy use "magicamy" to speak to the community or was it Hyerim all the time ? How far was involve Tarei in magicamy success ? Were there others pro helping her ? Who wrote magicamy tier list ? What is Hyerim's real skill and knowledge of hearthstone ? Was Jaedong playing for her when she won multiple times against Savior in ZvZ ? and the biggest mystery : Are people trolling when they say that Hyerim can be innocent ???
Haha! Jaedong don't need drama like that. He's sippin champagne with models, livin' that good life.
Still seems really suspicious to me. I mean, sure, she is not obliged to prove she is not a fraud, but anyone else in her shoes who is actually innocent will most likely want to actively prove it. It just seems odd that she would forego that chance and let all the suspicion continuing to hang, or even increase.
Just seems like a really strange line of behavior for someone who has not done anything wrong.
On February 20 2015 20:24 litlnoobs wrote: As we see, no matter the conclusions Chakki et. al have already deemed her guilty based merely on amateur internet sleuthing.
So now, MagicAmy is out a team and has her reputation ruined, and Chakki et. al still stream with even more followers than before.
Magicamy didn't do anything to counter the accusations publicly. She just up and left despite having her team willing to back her up and help disprove them.
Noone to blame but herself for being off a team
I love this logic. MagicAmy does....apparently nothing...but some people decide that she's not who she says she is because reasons, riling up the whole community and causing her team to treat her like a damn criminal. And she leaves the scene because, who the hell would want to deal with this shit? And it's HER fault? Really?
So apparently participating in offline tournaments you qualified for or got invited to which is part of the job she signed up for in team Tempo Storm is now 'being treated like a criminal'. That is of course assuming that this opportunity isn't just a part of TS's damage control. If it isn't then I can really not understand why you would blame the team for parting with her. They signed her up as part of their roster to participate in tournament and if she doesn't want to be doing that for whatever reason then leaving seems to be the natural consequence.
The difference is that now her entire career and reputation relies on her performing well. If she has an off day, doesn't perform, makes a mistake and doesn't do well then she's "confirmed" as a fraud. It'd be gambling her lifestyle on the results of 1 tournament.
Whereas the alternative of quitting without trying to perform in that tournament also costs her that lifestyle/carreer. It's not really gambling if not doing it costs the same as loosing. I won't rule out that she might be innocent and fed up with it or just generally unwilling to go out there but I don't think there would have been much of a future in progaming for her anyway.
Being "confirmed" as a fraud leaves a whole lot more to be lost, reputation and redemption wise, than just walking away. If she wants to prove herself in the future in some offline tournament I doubt a TO would give up on the chance to have that storyline bringing the viewers in. If she gives it enough time and she wants to then she has a chance to try to make it back. But play now and lose then nobody is going to take her seriously, her reputation is dragged through the mud.
It's a lose-lose situation if you ask me, and whether she made the right choice (assuming innocence) can't be determined. Assuming guilt because somebody had to make this kind of career ending choice out of nowhere is pretty bullshit if you ask me.
Assuming guilt because somebody had to make this kind of career ending choice out of nowhere
Not out of nowhere but when she and her Canadian buddy were called out on their BS, and only after TempoStorm investigation was done. And she didn't announce her so called retirement, Tempo Storm did
Like I said, it was really nice of Reynad and TS to let her save her face liket this.
Wow when they start bringing up Glen Beck you know the Liberals/Feminazis haven't a leg to stand on. MagicAmy was a public figure. Any public figure is guilty until proven innocent. Any public figure that is innocent will do what it takes to clear their name. Lee was given the chance to clear her name but decided against it. In the real world that means she's guilty.
I was actually pretty disappointed by this whole drama. I really hoped for something more insane, like MagicAmy being actually 300kg guy living on fluffy kitten burgers or something like that...
On February 20 2015 20:47 Numy wrote: Stop responding to them. They have this SJW narrative they will shout to the ends of the earth. They don't care about her scamming people or dodging questions. They only care about her being a woman and thus oppressed by the patriarchy.
Jesus are people retarded it would be exactly the same situation for a guy.
On February 20 2015 20:47 Numy wrote: Stop responding to them. They have this SJW narrative they will shout to the ends of the earth. They don't care about her scamming people or dodging questions. They only care about her being a woman and thus oppressed by the patriarchy.
Jesus are people retarded it would be exactly the same situation for a guy.
Hosty?
He got it worse than amy IMO. He made a statement arguing his innocence within hours of his accusation and was instantly canned anyways. The evidence against him was better but still. There was no investigation by his team. They just released him and said it was for something else.
On February 20 2015 22:42 pannra wrote: Wow when they start bringing up Glen Beck you know the Liberals/Feminazis haven't a leg to stand on. MagicAmy was a public figure. Any public figure is guilty until proven innocent. Any public figure that is innocent will do what it takes to clear their name. Lee was given the chance to clear her name but decided against it. In the real world that means she's guilty.
On February 20 2015 20:47 Numy wrote: Stop responding to them. They have this SJW narrative they will shout to the ends of the earth. They don't care about her scamming people or dodging questions. They only care about her being a woman and thus oppressed by the patriarchy.
Jesus are people retarded it would be exactly the same situation for a guy.
Hosty?
He got it worse than amy IMO. He made a statement arguing his innocence within hours of his accusation and was instantly canned anyways. The evidence against him was better but still. There was no investigation by his team. They just released him and said it was for something else.
And nobody tried to imply that he got what he got because he was a male
On February 20 2015 22:42 pannra wrote: Wow when they start bringing up Glen Beck you know the Liberals/Feminazis haven't a leg to stand on. MagicAmy was a public figure. Any public figure is guilty until proven innocent. Any public figure that is innocent will do what it takes to clear their name. Lee was given the chance to clear her name but decided against it. In the real world that means she's guilty.
Not sure if serious...
Of course you're not sure. You don't live in the real world. Look at what happened to Cosby. Some chics claim he raped them like 50 years ago. No evidence at all. No police reports because not a single one of them pressed charges. Yet people still assume he's a rapist.
This isn't a court of law. Public figures are guilty until proven innocent and it's on them to prove their innocence. MagicAmy had multiple chances and was just given another chance to prove her innocence. Yet she refuses, once again, to clear her name.
On February 20 2015 22:42 pannra wrote: Wow when they start bringing up Glen Beck you know the Liberals/Feminazis haven't a leg to stand on. MagicAmy was a public figure. Any public figure is guilty until proven innocent. Any public figure that is innocent will do what it takes to clear their name. Lee was given the chance to clear her name but decided against it. In the real world that means she's guilty.
Not sure if serious...
Of course you're not sure. You don't live in the real world. Look at what happened to Cosby. Some chics claim he raped them like 50 years ago. No evidence at all. No police reports because not a single one of them pressed charges. Yet people still assume he's a rapist.
This isn't a court of law. Public figures are guilty until proven innocent and it's on them to prove their innocence. MagicAmy had multiple chances and was just given another chance to prove her innocence. Yet she refuses, once again, to clear her name.
I see. Of course a rapist like you would say that, now prove to me you are not a rapist.
People like you who prosecute people for their own entertainment without evidence are worthless.
MagicAmy was investigated and cleared. If you desperatly want to keep on believing she was guilty because she didn't provide you with conclusive evidence, which lets face it would never have changed your mind no mather how good they were, that only reflects poorly on you and the community you represent. This is why I could never get properly in to Hearthstone, the community is just screaming children mindlessly repeating internet memes. Keep pushing away the good people and you can swim around in your own cesspool with the other worthless idiots.
On February 20 2015 22:42 pannra wrote: Wow when they start bringing up Glen Beck you know the Liberals/Feminazis haven't a leg to stand on. MagicAmy was a public figure. Any public figure is guilty until proven innocent. Any public figure that is innocent will do what it takes to clear their name. Lee was given the chance to clear her name but decided against it. In the real world that means she's guilty.
Not sure if serious...
Of course you're not sure. You don't live in the real world. Look at what happened to Cosby. Some chics claim he raped them like 50 years ago. No evidence at all. No police reports because not a single one of them pressed charges. Yet people still assume he's a rapist.
This isn't a court of law. Public figures are guilty until proven innocent and it's on them to prove their innocence. MagicAmy had multiple chances and was just given another chance to prove her innocence. Yet she refuses, once again, to clear her name.
Can you please not be dismisive of rape cases and compare them to this? this is a ludicrous obnoxious ignorant remark because of the simple fact that you have ABSOLUTELY no clue how hard (read: impossible ) it practically is to prove rape in any case without physical evidence especially with rape cases happened that long time ago. And the reason they didnt press charges is because it happened way too long ago most of them have had a settlement. " Yet people still assume he's a rapist. Yes because if you cant prove and if you've paid your way out of it, obviously you cannot be a rapist right ?
As for Magicamy, I love how gullible most of the people you are. There are plenty of cases where she tried to leech money off of people asking Jab, Celest, Sjow and god know what other progamer she lunged at. you have former collegues say about her how she operated so even if its at best an attack on her character it kind of tells plenty about her MO. Tempostorm has no message to all these personal affairs of hers and of course they will not comment or even judge her for it as they had a professional working relationship and this didnt concern them but her play. And they even tried to back her up but she didnt take it. If the shoe fits..
The whole TS report seems like a load of PC BS. It doesnt seem right that they cant find anything when so many people have come forward with claims about her.
Obviously no one have to take shit from this trash community.
She realized that no matter what she did she would be continuously treated as a fraud; even if she went to that tournament and won people would have said she was on vocal or something.
Even if I had the necessary skill and dedication I would never try to be a progamer with such a disgusting community. Totally understand the way she stepped out, when people throw shit at you you don't have to throw it back, you can and should just get the hell away from those pricks.
On February 20 2015 22:42 pannra wrote: Wow when they start bringing up Glen Beck you know the Liberals/Feminazis haven't a leg to stand on. MagicAmy was a public figure. Any public figure is guilty until proven innocent. Any public figure that is innocent will do what it takes to clear their name. Lee was given the chance to clear her name but decided against it. In the real world that means she's guilty.
Not sure if serious...
Of course you're not sure. You don't live in the real world. Look at what happened to Cosby. Some chics claim he raped them like 50 years ago. No evidence at all. No police reports because not a single one of them pressed charges. Yet people still assume he's a rapist.
This isn't a court of law. Public figures are guilty until proven innocent and it's on them to prove their innocence. MagicAmy had multiple chances and was just given another chance to prove her innocence. Yet she refuses, once again, to clear her name.
MagicAmy was investigated and cleared.
She wasn't cleared. You guys need to learn how to read PR.
This is what it says:
Tempo Storm can prove that "Hyerim Lee" is a real person (this was never in dispute).
Tempo Storm CANNOT prove that:
1. She didn't scam people (in fact they admit she probably did but want to overlook it as 'personal issues').
2. She has been playing for herself (they admit they can't prove she has never botted either).
A lot of what was said in the article demonstrates a lack of understanding. For example, they say that the fact that she wasn't banned in Blizzards bot banning waves supports that she is not a botter. Sure, but let's not pretend that Blizzard is perfect and catches and bans every botter. Also they question what Amy's "endgame" plan for this con scheme would have been by saying "she would have had to show up at a tournament eventually." The whole point of this type of con is to make as much money as possible before you get found out and I'm pretty sure she could have coasted on excuses for a LONG time (heck, she did with all the other people she took money from). The fact that TS gave her the opportunity to stay and participate in a live event and she turned them down is pretty damning.
It seems the only reason ddayzy registered here was to accuse people of being rapists
I'm not implying he is from Canada, but who knows... In any case I wish the matter could be discussed in a civilized way, without calling people rapists, scum, disgusting and so on. But it seems it's hardly possible, since the people who are most vocal against online harassment are the ones doing it most often.
the bill cosby case had more weight because more than one woman came forward with the claim right? kind of like with this whole magicamy scandal, multiple people came forth with evidence of her fraud and shadiness.
Knowing all other blizzard games and what blizzard has done in the past, such as inviting hacker to LAN events, having blizzard as a sole police to take care of all the abuses that's going on in HS scene is A HUGE JOKE.
It doesn't mater if MagicAmy is a public figure or not. The reason MagicAmy needs to bring forth some evidence of her legitimacy is because of the mountain of circumstantial evidence that has come up in the past 3 days. She is not being accused without evidence.
And the evidence is not just 1 or 2 things or a couple of jaded people. There's a line of people out the door with testimonies against her and hard screenshots legitimately tying her account to things like botting and other users.
T/S did the right thing. They basically said "the evidence is concerning, but there is nothing that 100% proves anything". They gave her an opportunity to clear her name from the mountain of evidence (on T/S's dime no less) by doing something that everyone on the team is required to do anyway (they are not asking her to do something special).
Unfortunately, she continues to act like a serial scammer. They are wise to cut ties with that before the controversy drags deeper.
My guess is that the people playing MagicAmy's account are primarily the combination of many members of TeamMagicAmy.
On February 21 2015 01:08 TheRealArtemis wrote: The whole TS report seems like a load of PC BS. It doesnt seem right that they cant find anything when so many people have come forward with claims about her.
The report admits they cannot disprove basically any of the claims.
On February 21 2015 01:09 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: She realized that no matter what she did she would be continuously treated as a fraud; even if she went to that tournament and won people would have said she was on vocal or something.
This is a poor argument and I'll show you why by looking at it in the simplest form.
2 possibilities: A. You are a bad HS player and have been having other people play for you. B. You are a very good HS player and have been playing for yourself.
If A. then in this situation you are left with 1 option: 1. You back out.
You can't afford to show up to a tournament because then it will be obvious. The jig is up, this is your only option.
If B then: 1. You back out. You claim you are sensitive and find the situation too stressful. Your reputation remains tarnished.
2. You boost your credibility by showing up at a tournament and don't make any obviously stupid mistakes.
You are assuming B1 but if you are in fact a good HS player who in their right mind doesn't choose option 2? B1 is possible but A1 or B2 are far more likely. B2 is so easy if you are as good as "magicamy" is. Sure there will always be doubters but even if she attended a single tournament and didn't play like an idiot I would be likely to side with her. However, she went with option 1 so I have to use the more likely scenario.
On February 20 2015 22:42 pannra wrote: Wow when they start bringing up Glen Beck you know the Liberals/Feminazis haven't a leg to stand on. MagicAmy was a public figure. Any public figure is guilty until proven innocent. Any public figure that is innocent will do what it takes to clear their name. Lee was given the chance to clear her name but decided against it. In the real world that means she's guilty.
Not sure if serious...
Of course you're not sure. You don't live in the real world. Look at what happened to Cosby. Some chics claim he raped them like 50 years ago. No evidence at all. No police reports because not a single one of them pressed charges. Yet people still assume he's a rapist.
This isn't a court of law. Public figures are guilty until proven innocent and it's on them to prove their innocence. MagicAmy had multiple chances and was just given another chance to prove her innocence. Yet she refuses, once again, to clear her name.
MagicAmy was investigated and cleared.
She wasn't cleared. You guys need to learn how to read PR.
This is what it says:
Tempo Storm can prove that "Hyerim Lee" is a real person (this was never in dispute).
Tempo Storm CANNOT prove that:
1. She didn't scam people (in fact they admit she probably did but want to overlook it as 'personal issues').
2. She has been playing for herself (they admit they can't prove she has never botted either).
A lot of what was said in the article demonstrates a lack of understanding. For example, they say that the fact that she wasn't banned in Blizzards bot banning waves supports that she is not a botter. Sure, but let's not pretend that Blizzard is perfect and catches and bans every botter. Also they question what Amy's "endgame" plan for this con scheme would have been by saying "she would have had to show up at a tournament eventually." The whole point of this type of con is to make as much money as possible before you get found out and I'm pretty sure she could have coasted on excuses for a LONG time (heck, she did with all the other people she took money from). The fact that TS gave her the opportunity to stay and participate in a live event and she turned them down is pretty damning.
If you don't believe in a human right so basic as innocent until proven guilty we don't have a fundament to argue on. Your argument boils down to "She has not proven her innocence" which she has no obligation to do. I'm not arguing wheather or not she did any of the things she is accused of because we don't know, and that's the point. It's not about guilt, it's about hundreds of self rightious judge/jury/executioners comming out of the woodworks to join in a mob and go after someone which has not been proven guilty. The modern day pillroy. And after throwing shit at a peson who has not been proven guilty you demand they get out in front of you and jump through hoops until you are satisfied. You really think this is how a human being should be treated?
On February 21 2015 01:20 Sejanus wrote: It seems the only reason ddayzy registered here was to accuse people of being rapists
I'm not implying he is from Canada, but who knows... In any case I wish the matter could be discussed in a civilized way, without calling people rapists, scum, disgusting and so on. But it seems it's hardly possible, since the people who are most vocal against online harassment are the ones doing it most often.
The irony and self pity in this post is staggering. One of the pillars of a civil society is innocent until proven guilty and yet you want to have a civil discussion if we should tear it down?
If you want to dish it out don't go and play the victim when you get the same back.
saying something like "i may get banned for this but here it comes anyway...."
Martyring is term that some teenagers on a power trip came up with. You don't really see it enforced because it's a dumb arbitary rule.
It's actually a bullet point in rule #2 of all the Liquid forums, and I've seen it enforced many times over the years:
Don't be a drama queen or martyr. Our forums aren't colonial America or Tiananmen Square. "This is going to get me banned, but..." results in an automatic ban.
No matter what you guys say, these things will hold true:
1. she will never stream (if she does, there will be no commentary as she will be puppeted) 2. she will never make offline appearance (if she does, you will see less than ESL champ worthy plays) 3. she will never make video content (it will be a text content made by others)
Those disscusions always in same way, there are 2 tribes fighting among themselves, sensitive defenders and agressive offenders... when in reality we don't know anything about MagicAmy and what is real. The disscusion could be closed becouse right now it's a theory about cyvil rights, ??Bill Cosby?? and what's is right or wrong.
Nobody will tell the truth. Magicamy,Frodan,Reynad are fighting for their cause right now and their cause is your money. Next time you donate to someone think twice
On February 21 2015 01:20 Sejanus wrote: It seems the only reason ddayzy registered here was to accuse people of being rapists
I'm not implying he is from Canada, but who knows... In any case I wish the matter could be discussed in a civilized way, without calling people rapists, scum, disgusting and so on. But it seems it's hardly possible, since the people who are most vocal against online harassment are the ones doing it most often.
The irony and self pity in this post is staggering. One of the pillars of a civil society is innocent until proven guilty and yet you want to have a civil discussion if we should tear it down?
If you want to dish it out don't go and play the victim when you get the same back.
Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in modern society. Before you are convicted of a crime you sit in jail. During your trial, you are in handcuffs and a prison jumpsuit and are escorted by prison guards between the courthouse and the jail. That reads alot more like guilty until proven innocent to me.
Another interesting note is that during a criminal trial if you do nothing to disprove the evidence laid against you, you are found guilty. The burden is on you to disprove the accusations against you.
If she did play in the offline tournament, people would be all over every little mistake she would make. The ESL series was far from perfect, but with people looking for and searching for proof of her doing the wrong play, they will find it regardless of how good or bad she is.
On February 21 2015 01:09 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: Obviously no one have to take shit from this trash community.
She realized that no matter what she did she would be continuously treated as a fraud; even if she went to that tournament and won people would have said she was on vocal or something.
Even if I had the necessary skill and dedication I would never try to be a progamer with such a disgusting community. Totally understand the way she stepped out, when people throw shit at you you don't have to throw it back, you can and should just get the hell away from those pricks.
You are absolutely right she should not be in such a disgusting community where she lied to ( Prismate,jab promises money not giving back ) And you understand completely that she as a person would not come back to this community because the 5k she woo'd mister into is also an act of kindness and not deceptive at all. The fact she even tried to get money off of Sjow which he declined was also.. just a perfectly well mannered person being in a "disgusting" community.
Mind you, there is no evidence she didnt cheat but her character and what she lied about and held people on a leash is something many people account for and have presented evidence of however TS is not interested in that.
On February 20 2015 22:42 pannra wrote: Wow when they start bringing up Glen Beck you know the Liberals/Feminazis haven't a leg to stand on. MagicAmy was a public figure. Any public figure is guilty until proven innocent. Any public figure that is innocent will do what it takes to clear their name. Lee was given the chance to clear her name but decided against it. In the real world that means she's guilty.
Not sure if serious...
Of course you're not sure. You don't live in the real world. Look at what happened to Cosby. Some chics claim he raped them like 50 years ago. No evidence at all. No police reports because not a single one of them pressed charges. Yet people still assume he's a rapist.
This isn't a court of law. Public figures are guilty until proven innocent and it's on them to prove their innocence. MagicAmy had multiple chances and was just given another chance to prove her innocence. Yet she refuses, once again, to clear her name.
MagicAmy was investigated and cleared.
She wasn't cleared. You guys need to learn how to read PR.
This is what it says:
Tempo Storm can prove that "Hyerim Lee" is a real person (this was never in dispute).
Tempo Storm CANNOT prove that:
1. She didn't scam people (in fact they admit she probably did but want to overlook it as 'personal issues').
2. She has been playing for herself (they admit they can't prove she has never botted either).
A lot of what was said in the article demonstrates a lack of understanding. For example, they say that the fact that she wasn't banned in Blizzards bot banning waves supports that she is not a botter. Sure, but let's not pretend that Blizzard is perfect and catches and bans every botter. Also they question what Amy's "endgame" plan for this con scheme would have been by saying "she would have had to show up at a tournament eventually." The whole point of this type of con is to make as much money as possible before you get found out and I'm pretty sure she could have coasted on excuses for a LONG time (heck, she did with all the other people she took money from). The fact that TS gave her the opportunity to stay and participate in a live event and she turned them down is pretty damning.
If you don't believe in a human right so basic as innocent until proven guilty we don't have a fundament to argue on. Your argument boils down to "She has not proven her innocence" which she has no obligation to do. I'm not arguing wheather or not she did any of the things she is accused of because we don't know, and that's the point. It's not about guilt, it's about hundreds of self rightious judge/jury/executioners comming out of the woodworks to join in a mob and go after someone which has not been proven guilty. The modern day pillroy. And after throwing shit at a peson who has not been proven guilty you demand they get out in front of you and jump through hoops until you are satisfied. You really think this is how a human being should be treated?
There is a MOUNTAIN of evidence against her and you seem to be in denial about/pretending it doesn't exist. Tempo Storm themselves disagree with you and have found it necessary for her to prove herself. Basically everything in this case pointed to her not playing for herself and all she had to do is what is already in her contract to clear herself: show up at a live event. She backed down which is as much of an admission of guilt as you will ever get. I haven't even commented on issue until today because I wanted to see what came out. The evidence stands and she backs down. How can I reach any other conclusion?
its unfortunate to lose a legitimately interesting player because people went on a witch hunt, which ultimately proved to be false in the eyes of the only organization that matters in this particular instance.
lots of people saying she should prove her innocence. if i were in her shoes, i am not sure i would want to prove my innocence to a community that so quickly scoured my personal history and revealed it to the world as truth despite its baselessness apparently.
well, she definitely has made an Impact on the community. Sorry, I had to :p
But I do believe she had the RDU-"hi mom"-option as well. Show that she actually is a formidable player, pay back those whom she took money from (or try to show that she didn't golddig), apologize to Prismata. A lot of work for very little payoff though.
I think people need to remember TempoStorm is an esports team, not the Hearthstone police. It is not their job to find everything there is to know about "magicamy" and try to find her guilty or innocent. They just need to run their team as best as they can, and make decisions that are in the best interest of their team.
You can draw whatever conclusions you want from what they said/didn't say, but my take is this:
-Hyerim Lee is a real person, who is probably the "main" person behind MagicAmy (does most of the communications/interactions).
-She probably had someone else play for her at some point, and I think the ESL win was not her playing. However, this is incredibly difficult to prove beyond any doubt, and you would basically have to have the "guilty" parties (if they exist) cop to it in order to prove it. I think Hyerim probably does play Hearthstone to some degree, but she has better players play a lot for her. I don't think the ESL win was her (again, this is just my speculation based on the evidence I've seen).
-Rather than continue to "investigate" an already shady character, they just decided to give her an ultimatum to put up or shut up, and she decided to leave. That is the easiest/best business decision for TempoStorm. Does it really get to the bottom of everything "magicamy" has done? No, but again, that isn't TempoStorm's job, they just need to make the decisions best for their team.
There are still a lot of questions unanswered, and they will probably remain unanswered because there isn't much of a reason to continue digging into this (except for esports drama). I think Hearthstone lost a shady/scammy player, and I don't see how that is a terrible thing. How good she was at Hearthstone itself, will probably be largely unknown to most of the community.
On February 21 2015 01:20 Sejanus wrote: It seems the only reason ddayzy registered here was to accuse people of being rapists
I'm not implying he is from Canada, but who knows... In any case I wish the matter could be discussed in a civilized way, without calling people rapists, scum, disgusting and so on. But it seems it's hardly possible, since the people who are most vocal against online harassment are the ones doing it most often.
The irony and self pity in this post is staggering. One of the pillars of a civil society is innocent until proven guilty and yet you want to have a civil discussion if we should tear it down?
If you want to dish it out don't go and play the victim when you get the same back.
Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in modern society. Before you are convicted of a crime you sit in jail. During your trial, you are in handcuffs and a prison jumpsuit and are escorted by prison guards between the courthouse and the jail. That reads alot more like guilty until proven innocent to me.
Another interesting note is that during a criminal trial if you do nothing to disprove the evidence laid against you, you are found guilty. The burden is on you to disprove the accusations against you.
This statment is both scary and funny at the same time. You assume every person who gets arrested is guilty? I don't, which one of us do you think is the smarter person?
No it is not, you are found guilty if it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that you did it.
On February 20 2015 22:42 pannra wrote: Wow when they start bringing up Glen Beck you know the Liberals/Feminazis haven't a leg to stand on. MagicAmy was a public figure. Any public figure is guilty until proven innocent. Any public figure that is innocent will do what it takes to clear their name. Lee was given the chance to clear her name but decided against it. In the real world that means she's guilty.
Not sure if serious...
Of course you're not sure. You don't live in the real world. Look at what happened to Cosby. Some chics claim he raped them like 50 years ago. No evidence at all. No police reports because not a single one of them pressed charges. Yet people still assume he's a rapist.
This isn't a court of law. Public figures are guilty until proven innocent and it's on them to prove their innocence. MagicAmy had multiple chances and was just given another chance to prove her innocence. Yet she refuses, once again, to clear her name.
MagicAmy was investigated and cleared.
She wasn't cleared. You guys need to learn how to read PR.
This is what it says:
Tempo Storm can prove that "Hyerim Lee" is a real person (this was never in dispute).
Tempo Storm CANNOT prove that:
1. She didn't scam people (in fact they admit she probably did but want to overlook it as 'personal issues').
2. She has been playing for herself (they admit they can't prove she has never botted either).
A lot of what was said in the article demonstrates a lack of understanding. For example, they say that the fact that she wasn't banned in Blizzards bot banning waves supports that she is not a botter. Sure, but let's not pretend that Blizzard is perfect and catches and bans every botter. Also they question what Amy's "endgame" plan for this con scheme would have been by saying "she would have had to show up at a tournament eventually." The whole point of this type of con is to make as much money as possible before you get found out and I'm pretty sure she could have coasted on excuses for a LONG time (heck, she did with all the other people she took money from). The fact that TS gave her the opportunity to stay and participate in a live event and she turned them down is pretty damning.
If you don't believe in a human right so basic as innocent until proven guilty we don't have a fundament to argue on. Your argument boils down to "She has not proven her innocence" which she has no obligation to do. I'm not arguing wheather or not she did any of the things she is accused of because we don't know, and that's the point. It's not about guilt, it's about hundreds of self rightious judge/jury/executioners comming out of the woodworks to join in a mob and go after someone which has not been proven guilty. The modern day pillroy. And after throwing shit at a peson who has not been proven guilty you demand they get out in front of you and jump through hoops until you are satisfied. You really think this is how a human being should be treated?
There is a MOUNTAIN of evidence against her and you seem to be in denial about/pretending it doesn't exist. Tempo Storm themselves disagree with you and have found it necessary for her to prove herself. Basically everything in this case pointed to her not playing for herself and all she had to do is what is already in her contract to clear herself: show up at a live event. She backed down which is as much of an admission of guilt as you will ever get. I haven't even commented on issue until today because I wanted to see what came out. The evidence stands and she backs down. How can I reach any other conclusion?
Can you provide the conclusive evidence which proves without doubt that she did this? If so I would like you to present those evidence as I have yet to see them. Tempo Storm gave her a opprtunity to pay for her attending a live event, after being slammed by other players and the community you are really suprised she didn't want to jump through hoops for your sake? You treating someone like shit and then claiming she must be guilty if she doesnt stand in front of you, take more shit, and disprove it. There is no gaurantees she would have done amazing, and she would have to to silence critiques, and if she didn't that would have been taken as proof she cheated as well.
Honestly, look at yourself from the outside, would you want to have anything to do with you?
TemoStorm investigated it and caim to a conclussion, if you disagree with that I assume you have evidence they did not. If you do show it.
This thread just turned into fight between those who think she is a scam and those who defend her. I have some news for you all. It doesn't matter at all anymore. Everything was said and done and you can't change it anymore.
There is so much evidence against her that it is nearly impossible that she would be totally innocent and just a victim of angry internet kids. Also it is not that teenage boys on twitch chat accused her of something, but respected community members and pro players came up with something against her. Also many of them stated that they were suspicious for some time already, but didn't want to be stirring the water until more evidence came out.
Some people are just so ignorant that i sometimes wonder how can that even be possible. I am not saying she is guilty, i am saying that there is a huge probability that she is not legit and a money scam. She had a chance to prove herself, but refused and back out. Ok, she might be sick of this community and whatsoever that she didn't want to deal with it anymore, but If you are smart enough to become a pro HS player and you have a nice chance to achieve something and even make money of it (especially in her money hungry scenario), I doubt you would just back out. Also I am sure that among respected community, she would prove herself by showing up at a LAN tournament and playing at her average level (everyone can lose, but still play decent). Maybe she would remain guilty for those angry internet kids, but who cares about them....If she will be respected among the pro community, she will steadily get her respect everywhere else.
Also i have to laugh at those who say: This all happened just because she is a girl. Honestly I am a bit disappointed that it had to end like this. I definately think HS needs more good female players.
On February 21 2015 02:50 Ricjames wrote: This thread just turned into fight between those who think she is a scam and those who defend her. I have some news for you all. It doesn't matter at all anymore. Everything was said and done and you can't change it anymore.
There is so much evidence against her that it is nearly impossible that she would be totally innocent and just a victim of angry internet kids. Also it is not that teenage boys on twitch chat accused her of something, but respected community members and pro players came up with something against her. Also many of them stated that they were suspicious for some time already, but didn't want to be stirring the water until more evidence came out.
Some people are just so ignorant that i sometimes wonder how can that even be possible. I am not saying she is guilty, i am saying that there is a huge probability that she is not legit and a money scam. She had a chance to prove herself, but refused and back out. Ok, she might be sick of this community and whatsoever that she didn't want to deal with it anymore, but If you are smart enough to become a pro HS player and you have a nice chance to achieve something and even make money of it (especially in her money hungry scenario), I doubt you would just back out. Also I am sure that among respected community, she would prove herself by showing up at a LAN tournament and playing at her average level (everyone can lose, but still play decent). Maybe she would remain guilty for those angry internet kids, but who cares about them....If she will be respected among the pro community, she will steadily get her respect everywhere else.
Also i have to laugh at those who say: This all happened just because she is a girl. Honestly I am a bit disappointed that it had to end like this. I definately think HS needs more good female players.
It is suprising to you that people have oposing views on a subject and that those views would be discussed in a post dedicated to that subject?
Of course it matters, your behaviour is not justified by it being done.
When it comes to hearthstone I sometimes have a hard time telling the difference between a fair chunk of the streamers and angry internet kids, they seem to feed of eachother.
You are not saying she is guilty you are just saying she is probably guilty? Would you seriously want to stay after all this? I am sure there are some who would but not wanting to after this is hardly proof of guilt. I'm not arguing there is not evidence, neither am I arguing probability, I'm arguing that giving people not proven guilty the guilty treatment is a shitty way of behaving.
However, at this point she's effectively guilty of engaging in 'shady behavior' (make of that what you will) and as a consequence has been let go from TS and is (presumably) banned from online tournaments. As far as I can tell she's still welcome to offline events, and welcome to return to online events once her offline play has been observed.
Outside of any derogatory comments made towards her (which generally just shouldn't happen) it seems like a pretty reasonable outcome.
On February 21 2015 03:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote: Yes, she's innocent until proven guilty.
However, at this point she's effectively guilty of engaging in 'shady behavior' (make of that what you will) and as a consequence has been let go from TS and is (presumably) banned from online tournaments. As far as I can tell she's still welcome to offline events, and welcome to return to online events once her offline play has been observed.
Outside of any derogatory comments made towards her (which generally just shouldn't happen) it seems like a pretty reasonable outcome.
where does it say she is banned from online tournaments?
On February 21 2015 01:08 TheRealArtemis wrote: The whole TS report seems like a load of PC BS. It doesnt seem right that they cant find anything when so many people have come forward with claims about her.
The report admits they cannot disprove basically any of the claims.
On February 21 2015 01:09 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: She realized that no matter what she did she would be continuously treated as a fraud; even if she went to that tournament and won people would have said she was on vocal or something.
This is a poor argument and I'll show you why by looking at it in the simplest form.
2 possibilities: A. You are a bad HS player and have been having other people play for you. B. You are a very good HS player and have been playing for yourself.
If A. then in this situation you are left with 1 option: 1. You back out.
You can't afford to show up to a tournament because then it will be obvious. The jig is up, this is your only option.
If B then: 1. You back out. You claim you are sensitive and find the situation too stressful. Your reputation remains tarnished.
2. You boost your credibility by showing up at a tournament and don't make any obviously stupid mistakes.
You are assuming B1 but if you are in fact a good HS player who in their right mind doesn't choose option 2? B1 is possible but A1 or B2 are far more likely. B2 is so easy if you are as good as "magicamy" is. Sure there will always be doubters but even if she attended a single tournament and didn't play like an idiot I would be likely to side with her. However, she went with option 1 so I have to use the more likely scenario.
Putting some text and numbered points below an argument doesn't give it any credibility. There is no generalized behaviour that you can rationally sum up the way you did, everyone acts differently, sometimes logically, sometimes not, it depends. There is no point trying to draw schemes for that.
The only true thing is that no one ever came up with a 100% clear evidence that magicamy did what she is accused of. From there those without proper authority/knowledge to judge the case who jump on conclusions based on incomplete "evidence" are just a bunch of fucks.
I don't know if she is innocent or not; but if she is it totally makes sense to me that she backs out without explanation, no reason to give any attention to some random scumbags. If she is guilty it would be revealed eventually.
And in both case you don't need random bored kids entertaining drama. Since fraud will be exposed sooner or later anyway (teams don't need you guys to investigate their players); the only thing it does is possibly drive the wrongly accused people away from this shit scene.
On February 20 2015 22:42 pannra wrote: Wow when they start bringing up Glen Beck you know the Liberals/Feminazis haven't a leg to stand on. MagicAmy was a public figure. Any public figure is guilty until proven innocent. Any public figure that is innocent will do what it takes to clear their name. Lee was given the chance to clear her name but decided against it. In the real world that means she's guilty.
Not sure if serious...
Of course you're not sure. You don't live in the real world. Look at what happened to Cosby. Some chics claim he raped them like 50 years ago. No evidence at all. No police reports because not a single one of them pressed charges. Yet people still assume he's a rapist.
This isn't a court of law. Public figures are guilty until proven innocent and it's on them to prove their innocence. MagicAmy had multiple chances and was just given another chance to prove her innocence. Yet she refuses, once again, to clear her name.
MagicAmy was investigated and cleared.
She wasn't cleared. You guys need to learn how to read PR.
This is what it says:
Tempo Storm can prove that "Hyerim Lee" is a real person (this was never in dispute).
Tempo Storm CANNOT prove that:
1. She didn't scam people (in fact they admit she probably did but want to overlook it as 'personal issues').
2. She has been playing for herself (they admit they can't prove she has never botted either).
A lot of what was said in the article demonstrates a lack of understanding. For example, they say that the fact that she wasn't banned in Blizzards bot banning waves supports that she is not a botter. Sure, but let's not pretend that Blizzard is perfect and catches and bans every botter. Also they question what Amy's "endgame" plan for this con scheme would have been by saying "she would have had to show up at a tournament eventually." The whole point of this type of con is to make as much money as possible before you get found out and I'm pretty sure she could have coasted on excuses for a LONG time (heck, she did with all the other people she took money from). The fact that TS gave her the opportunity to stay and participate in a live event and she turned them down is pretty damning.
If you don't believe in a human right so basic as innocent until proven guilty we don't have a fundament to argue on. Your argument boils down to "She has not proven her innocence" which she has no obligation to do. I'm not arguing wheather or not she did any of the things she is accused of because we don't know, and that's the point. It's not about guilt, it's about hundreds of self rightious judge/jury/executioners comming out of the woodworks to join in a mob and go after someone which has not been proven guilty. The modern day pillroy. And after throwing shit at a peson who has not been proven guilty you demand they get out in front of you and jump through hoops until you are satisfied. You really think this is how a human being should be treated?
There is a MOUNTAIN of evidence against her and you seem to be in denial about/pretending it doesn't exist. Tempo Storm themselves disagree with you and have found it necessary for her to prove herself. Basically everything in this case pointed to her not playing for herself and all she had to do is what is already in her contract to clear herself: show up at a live event. She backed down which is as much of an admission of guilt as you will ever get. I haven't even commented on issue until today because I wanted to see what came out. The evidence stands and she backs down. How can I reach any other conclusion?
Can you provide the conclusive evidence which proves without doubt that she did this?
Rofl. I knew it. You're the type of person where even if a person owns a gun and has fingerprints on it they didn't necessarily shoot it because the person who did could have worn gloves, lol. By your logic EVERYTHING is circumstantial. What do you expect, video evidence? Even that can be faked bro. You're in denial and are incredibly naive. If we went by your logic we could never convict anyone of anything. Eventually you have to realize that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck. Live in the real world, please, this isn't the Matrix. Besides this isn't a freaking court of law here. We're all people who have opinions and those of us who are rational and unbiased will look at the whole picture and use the evidence to draw conclusions. Literally every bit of her behavior suggests that she is a fraud so at this point I have no reason to conclude otherwise. As I mentioned all she had to do was show up at an event and that would have cleared her in many people's eyes but she couldn't even do that. I was prepared to re-evaluate on her but she has given me no reason to do so. Maybe she will in the future.
This is my last comment on this topic. I feel the rational, unbiased people have already laid it out well enough that the rational, unbiased onlookers will be able to get the picture.
On February 21 2015 03:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote: Yes, she's innocent until proven guilty.
However, at this point she's effectively guilty of engaging in 'shady behavior' (make of that what you will) and as a consequence has been let go from TS and is (presumably) banned from online tournaments. As far as I can tell she's still welcome to offline events, and welcome to return to online events once her offline play has been observed.
Outside of any derogatory comments made towards her (which generally just shouldn't happen) it seems like a pretty reasonable outcome.
where does it say she is banned from online tournaments?
No where, as far as I know. As the situation stands I don't think she's going to be getting invited to tournaments, which is pretty close to a ban. I'm not sure how much discretion organizers have when there's an open qualifier, so maybe that route is still open to her.
On February 21 2015 02:50 Ricjames wrote: This thread just turned into fight between those who think she is a scam and those who defend her. I have some news for you all. It doesn't matter at all anymore. Everything was said and done and you can't change it anymore.
There is so much evidence against her that it is nearly impossible that she would be totally innocent and just a victim of angry internet kids. Also it is not that teenage boys on twitch chat accused her of something, but respected community members and pro players came up with something against her. Also many of them stated that they were suspicious for some time already, but didn't want to be stirring the water until more evidence came out.
Some people are just so ignorant that i sometimes wonder how can that even be possible. I am not saying she is guilty, i am saying that there is a huge probability that she is not legit and a money scam. She had a chance to prove herself, but refused and back out. Ok, she might be sick of this community and whatsoever that she didn't want to deal with it anymore, but If you are smart enough to become a pro HS player and you have a nice chance to achieve something and even make money of it (especially in her money hungry scenario), I doubt you would just back out. Also I am sure that among respected community, she would prove herself by showing up at a LAN tournament and playing at her average level (everyone can lose, but still play decent). Maybe she would remain guilty for those angry internet kids, but who cares about them....If she will be respected among the pro community, she will steadily get her respect everywhere else.
Also i have to laugh at those who say: This all happened just because she is a girl. Honestly I am a bit disappointed that it had to end like this. I definately think HS needs more good female players.
It is suprising to you that people have oposing views on a subject and that those views would be discussed in a post dedicated to that subject?
Of course it matters, your behaviour is not justified by it being done.
When it comes to hearthstone I sometimes have a hard time telling the difference between a fair chunk of the streamers and angry internet kids, they seem to feed of eachother.
You are not saying she is guilty you are just saying she is probably guilty? Would you seriously want to stay after all this? I am sure there are some who would but not wanting to after this is hardly proof of guilt. I'm not arguing there is not evidence, neither am I arguing probability, I'm arguing that giving people not proven guilty the guilty treatment is a shitty way of behaving.
Do i really have to explain this to you? If i was at her place and one of my biggest recent life goals would be to achieve being a pro HS player and even be able to make money by it (as it seemed in her case), I would definately not be stopped by some circlejerking internet boys if i knew i am innocent. I find it hard to believe that someone can have a "dream" and just give up like that. If you do not see the reality in this, then you must be really ignorant or never had any goal in life except maybe arguing/trolling on the internet. I might even call you a little slow if you dont understand how pathetic (or unrealistic) her giving up looks like. She pretty much proven herslef guilty in my eyes.
On February 21 2015 03:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote: Yes, she's innocent until proven guilty.
However, at this point she's effectively guilty of engaging in 'shady behavior' (make of that what you will) and as a consequence has been let go from TS and is (presumably) banned from online tournaments. As far as I can tell she's still welcome to offline events, and welcome to return to online events once her offline play has been observed.
Outside of any derogatory comments made towards her (which generally just shouldn't happen) it seems like a pretty reasonable outcome.
where does it say she is banned from online tournaments?
No where, as far as I know. As the situation stands I don't think she's going to be getting invited to tournaments, which is pretty close to a ban. I'm not sure how much discretion organizers have when there's an open qualifier, so maybe that route is still open to her.
i dont know about this. the only thing she appears guilty of is scamming some pathetic dudes--although her side has never been presented so who knows. not sure tournament organizes would ban someone from tournaments for personal issues like this.
regardless, she has effectively banned herself from the tournament scene by retiring.
The internet misogynists strike again. I don't understand why people don't want women to play video games, I thought it was all nerds dreams to see girls? I don't blame her for leaving, why would anybody want to stay and have to deal with this crap? All this does is discourage new female players from playing.
On February 21 2015 03:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote: Yes, she's innocent until proven guilty.
However, at this point she's effectively guilty of engaging in 'shady behavior' (make of that what you will) and as a consequence has been let go from TS and is (presumably) banned from online tournaments. As far as I can tell she's still welcome to offline events, and welcome to return to online events once her offline play has been observed.
Outside of any derogatory comments made towards her (which generally just shouldn't happen) it seems like a pretty reasonable outcome.
where does it say she is banned from online tournaments?
No where, as far as I know. As the situation stands I don't think she's going to be getting invited to tournaments, which is pretty close to a ban. I'm not sure how much discretion organizers have when there's an open qualifier, so maybe that route is still open to her.
i dont know about this. the only thing she appears guilty of is scamming some pathetic dudes--although her side has never been presented so who knows. not sure tournament organizes would ban someone from tournaments for personal issues like this.
regardless, she has effectively banned herself from the tournament scene by retiring.
Elyot of Prismata has also claimed to be scammed by her. Like I said, 'shady stuff' and people should only take that for what it is and nothing more.
Personally I think if she can demonstrate half-decent play that's good enough for me. I liked watching her play, and it's always sad to see a cute grill leave.
On February 21 2015 04:14 LastManProductions wrote: The internet misogynists strike again. I don't understand why people don't want women to play video games, I thought it was all nerds dreams to see girls? I don't blame her for leaving, why would anybody want to stay and have to deal with this crap? All this does is discourage new female players from playing.
again, you are the one making this about misogony. Stop being a sexist pig. No one condemns anyone because of their gender, and the investigation most likely was not conducted due to a gender either. Please go read up on the actual accusations, on how this investigation developed in the first place and that she even got off lightly compared to RDU ("hi mom") and the shitstorm he had to face.
On February 20 2015 22:42 pannra wrote: Wow when they start bringing up Glen Beck you know the Liberals/Feminazis haven't a leg to stand on. MagicAmy was a public figure. Any public figure is guilty until proven innocent. Any public figure that is innocent will do what it takes to clear their name. Lee was given the chance to clear her name but decided against it. In the real world that means she's guilty.
Not sure if serious...
Of course you're not sure. You don't live in the real world. Look at what happened to Cosby. Some chics claim he raped them like 50 years ago. No evidence at all. No police reports because not a single one of them pressed charges. Yet people still assume he's a rapist.
This isn't a court of law. Public figures are guilty until proven innocent and it's on them to prove their innocence. MagicAmy had multiple chances and was just given another chance to prove her innocence. Yet she refuses, once again, to clear her name.
MagicAmy was investigated and cleared.
She wasn't cleared. You guys need to learn how to read PR.
This is what it says:
Tempo Storm can prove that "Hyerim Lee" is a real person (this was never in dispute).
Tempo Storm CANNOT prove that:
1. She didn't scam people (in fact they admit she probably did but want to overlook it as 'personal issues').
2. She has been playing for herself (they admit they can't prove she has never botted either).
A lot of what was said in the article demonstrates a lack of understanding. For example, they say that the fact that she wasn't banned in Blizzards bot banning waves supports that she is not a botter. Sure, but let's not pretend that Blizzard is perfect and catches and bans every botter. Also they question what Amy's "endgame" plan for this con scheme would have been by saying "she would have had to show up at a tournament eventually." The whole point of this type of con is to make as much money as possible before you get found out and I'm pretty sure she could have coasted on excuses for a LONG time (heck, she did with all the other people she took money from). The fact that TS gave her the opportunity to stay and participate in a live event and she turned them down is pretty damning.
If you don't believe in a human right so basic as innocent until proven guilty we don't have a fundament to argue on. Your argument boils down to "She has not proven her innocence" which she has no obligation to do. I'm not arguing wheather or not she did any of the things she is accused of because we don't know, and that's the point. It's not about guilt, it's about hundreds of self rightious judge/jury/executioners comming out of the woodworks to join in a mob and go after someone which has not been proven guilty. The modern day pillroy. And after throwing shit at a peson who has not been proven guilty you demand they get out in front of you and jump through hoops until you are satisfied. You really think this is how a human being should be treated?
There is a MOUNTAIN of evidence against her and you seem to be in denial about/pretending it doesn't exist. Tempo Storm themselves disagree with you and have found it necessary for her to prove herself. Basically everything in this case pointed to her not playing for herself and all she had to do is what is already in her contract to clear herself: show up at a live event. She backed down which is as much of an admission of guilt as you will ever get. I haven't even commented on issue until today because I wanted to see what came out. The evidence stands and she backs down. How can I reach any other conclusion?
Can you provide the conclusive evidence which proves without doubt that she did this?
Rofl. I knew it. You're the type of person where even if a person owns a gun and has fingerprints on it they didn't necessarily shoot it because the person who did could have worn gloves, lol. By your logic EVERYTHING is circumstantial. What do you expect, video evidence? Even that can be faked bro. You're in denial and are incredibly naive. If we went by your logic we could never convict anyone of anything. Eventually you have to realize that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck. Live in the real world, please, this isn't the Matrix. Besides this isn't a freaking court of law here. We're all people who have opinions and those of us who are rational and unbiased will look at the whole picture and use the evidence to draw conclusions. Literally every bit of her behavior suggests that she is a fraud so at this point I have no reason to conclude otherwise. As I mentioned all she had to do was show up at an event and that would have cleared her in many people's eyes but she couldn't even do that. I was prepared to re-evaluate on her but she has given me no reason to do so. Maybe she will in the future.
This is my last comment on this topic. I feel the rational, unbiased people have already laid it out well enough that the rational, unbiased onlookers will be able to get the picture.
I'm the kind of person who thinks you should be damned sure your accusations is true befor you mob up on someone and treat them like dirt. I'm glad you took the trouble of defining what my opinion on what conclusive evidence is without anyway of actually knowing, I sense a pattern here. I'm naive for wanting conclusive evidence befor claiming someone is guilty? I'm fairly sure that's being moral not niave. I have nothing to be in denial about, I have no way of knowing if she is guilty so I'm leaning on what Tempo Storm concluded after investigating. My objection is not to her guilt, which I have no way of knowing, but to mobbing up on someone because you think they are guilty.
On February 21 2015 03:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote: Yes, she's innocent until proven guilty.
However, at this point she's effectively guilty of engaging in 'shady behavior' (make of that what you will) and as a consequence has been let go from TS and is (presumably) banned from online tournaments. As far as I can tell she's still welcome to offline events, and welcome to return to online events once her offline play has been observed.
Outside of any derogatory comments made towards her (which generally just shouldn't happen) it seems like a pretty reasonable outcome.
where does it say she is banned from online tournaments?
No where, as far as I know. As the situation stands I don't think she's going to be getting invited to tournaments, which is pretty close to a ban. I'm not sure how much discretion organizers have when there's an open qualifier, so maybe that route is still open to her.
i dont know about this. the only thing she appears guilty of is scamming some pathetic dudes--although her side has never been presented so who knows. not sure tournament organizes would ban someone from tournaments for personal issues like this.
regardless, she has effectively banned herself from the tournament scene by retiring.
Which is sad because Impact gloats about stealing a Yugioh collection worth thousands of dollars and still gets to host/cast tournaments with almost no repercussions (other than me and a couple of posters here boycotting, but honestly that's small potatoes).
Edit: Also I see on the sidebar that Hosty is still competing in tournaments too.
But we'll see if she makes a return will this have blown over? There was a lot of crap about RDU (which I personally don't think he was completely innocent of, but that's still speculation) and that's mostly gone away.
On February 21 2015 02:50 Ricjames wrote: This thread just turned into fight between those who think she is a scam and those who defend her. I have some news for you all. It doesn't matter at all anymore. Everything was said and done and you can't change it anymore.
There is so much evidence against her that it is nearly impossible that she would be totally innocent and just a victim of angry internet kids. Also it is not that teenage boys on twitch chat accused her of something, but respected community members and pro players came up with something against her. Also many of them stated that they were suspicious for some time already, but didn't want to be stirring the water until more evidence came out.
Some people are just so ignorant that i sometimes wonder how can that even be possible. I am not saying she is guilty, i am saying that there is a huge probability that she is not legit and a money scam. She had a chance to prove herself, but refused and back out. Ok, she might be sick of this community and whatsoever that she didn't want to deal with it anymore, but If you are smart enough to become a pro HS player and you have a nice chance to achieve something and even make money of it (especially in her money hungry scenario), I doubt you would just back out. Also I am sure that among respected community, she would prove herself by showing up at a LAN tournament and playing at her average level (everyone can lose, but still play decent). Maybe she would remain guilty for those angry internet kids, but who cares about them....If she will be respected among the pro community, she will steadily get her respect everywhere else.
Also i have to laugh at those who say: This all happened just because she is a girl. Honestly I am a bit disappointed that it had to end like this. I definately think HS needs more good female players.
It is suprising to you that people have oposing views on a subject and that those views would be discussed in a post dedicated to that subject?
Of course it matters, your behaviour is not justified by it being done.
When it comes to hearthstone I sometimes have a hard time telling the difference between a fair chunk of the streamers and angry internet kids, they seem to feed of eachother.
You are not saying she is guilty you are just saying she is probably guilty? Would you seriously want to stay after all this? I am sure there are some who would but not wanting to after this is hardly proof of guilt. I'm not arguing there is not evidence, neither am I arguing probability, I'm arguing that giving people not proven guilty the guilty treatment is a shitty way of behaving.
Do i really have to explain this to you? If i was at her place and one of my biggest recent life goals would be to achieve being a pro HS player and even be able to make money by it (as it seemed in her case), I would definately not be stopped by some circlejerking internet boys if i knew i am innocent. I find it hard to believe that someone can have a "dream" and just give up like that. If you do not see the reality in this, then you must be really ignorant or never had any goal in life except maybe arguing/trolling on the internet. I might even call you a little slow if you dont understand how pathetic (or unrealistic) her giving up looks like. She pretty much proven herslef guilty in my eyes.
Are you serious? You have been treated like shit by other players and the community and now they demand you stand in front of them and perform for them for theri satisfaction and if you lose you will be branded 100% guilty, and you think everyone would be strong enough to do this? I woulden't, this is not a community worth fighting to be a part of, that much we do have evidence of.
Loads of people give up on their dreams every second every day, do you think many people dream of working retail? They stop chasing them for different reasons, being trashed by the people suposedly supporting you and your peers would definitly be a good reason.
You being so narrow minded you cant concieve of other people having another perspective on this then you do speak volumes.
I thought Celerity's accusation that Tarei has been playing as MagicAmy on ladder and tournaments since Blizzcon made a lot more sense than the story that there is a world-class player named William Blaney that no one's ever heard of and hasn't played as himself at a single tournament.
On February 21 2015 01:20 Sejanus wrote: It seems the only reason ddayzy registered here was to accuse people of being rapists
I'm not implying he is from Canada, but who knows... In any case I wish the matter could be discussed in a civilized way, without calling people rapists, scum, disgusting and so on. But it seems it's hardly possible, since the people who are most vocal against online harassment are the ones doing it most often.
The irony and self pity in this post is staggering. One of the pillars of a civil society is innocent until proven guilty and yet you want to have a civil discussion if we should tear it down?
If you want to dish it out don't go and play the victim when you get the same back.
Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in modern society. Before you are convicted of a crime you sit in jail. During your trial, you are in handcuffs and a prison jumpsuit and are escorted by prison guards between the courthouse and the jail. That reads alot more like guilty until proven innocent to me.
Another interesting note is that during a criminal trial if you do nothing to disprove the evidence laid against you, you are found guilty. The burden is on you to disprove the accusations against you.
This statment is both scary and funny at the same time. You assume every person who gets arrested is guilty? I don't, which one of us do you think is the smarter person?
No it is not, you are found guilty if it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that you did it.
Proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is the burden of conviction for the prosecution in a CRIMINAL TRIAL. There are no criminal charges filed here. If anything this would be a CIVIL case for fraud in which the burden of proof is a "preponderance of the evidence." The civil case standard is lower than criminal because there is no potential loss of liberty (jail time) for most civil offenses. Basically, you are using the wrong evidentiary standard or "burden of proof" as it is called.
Like it or not, Magicamy doesn't have a right to be innocent until proven guilty here, as you have been so adamantly proclaiming. At best, someone accusing her of fraud would only have to show that based on a preponderance of the evidence, that she committed the acts in question. The circumstantial evidence presented on Reddit, Chakki's twitter, and statements of those she allegedly scammed would all be admissible against her, even though it does not directly prove the scam.
Stop trying to hide behind a weak legal argument that you very clearly do not understand.
On February 21 2015 01:20 Sejanus wrote: It seems the only reason ddayzy registered here was to accuse people of being rapists
I'm not implying he is from Canada, but who knows... In any case I wish the matter could be discussed in a civilized way, without calling people rapists, scum, disgusting and so on. But it seems it's hardly possible, since the people who are most vocal against online harassment are the ones doing it most often.
The irony and self pity in this post is staggering. One of the pillars of a civil society is innocent until proven guilty and yet you want to have a civil discussion if we should tear it down?
If you want to dish it out don't go and play the victim when you get the same back.
Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in modern society. Before you are convicted of a crime you sit in jail. During your trial, you are in handcuffs and a prison jumpsuit and are escorted by prison guards between the courthouse and the jail. That reads alot more like guilty until proven innocent to me.
Another interesting note is that during a criminal trial if you do nothing to disprove the evidence laid against you, you are found guilty. The burden is on you to disprove the accusations against you.
This statment is both scary and funny at the same time. You assume every person who gets arrested is guilty? I don't, which one of us do you think is the smarter person?
No it is not, you are found guilty if it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that you did it.
Proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is the burden of conviction for the prosecution in a CRIMINAL TRIAL. There are no criminal charges filed here. If anything this would be a civil case for fraud in which the burden of proof is a "preponderance of the evidence." The CIVIL suit standard is lower than criminal because there is no potential loss of liberty (jail time) for most civil offenses. Basically, you are using the wrong evidentiary standard or "burden of proof" as it is called.
Like it or not, Magicamy doesn't have a right to be innocent until proven guilty here as you have been so adamantly claiming. At best, someone accusing her of fraud would only have to show that based on a reasonable interpretation of the evidence, that she committed the acts in question. I can promise you that circumstantial evidence presented on Reddit, Chakki's twitter, and statements of those she allegedly conned would all be admissible against her, even though it does not directly prove the scam.
Stop trying to hide behind a weak legal argument that you very clearly do not understand.
are we applying the American criminal law in this case, since it involves a Canadian man, a Korean woman, and a bunch of international people?
On February 21 2015 02:50 Ricjames wrote: This thread just turned into fight between those who think she is a scam and those who defend her. I have some news for you all. It doesn't matter at all anymore. Everything was said and done and you can't change it anymore.
There is so much evidence against her that it is nearly impossible that she would be totally innocent and just a victim of angry internet kids. Also it is not that teenage boys on twitch chat accused her of something, but respected community members and pro players came up with something against her. Also many of them stated that they were suspicious for some time already, but didn't want to be stirring the water until more evidence came out.
Some people are just so ignorant that i sometimes wonder how can that even be possible. I am not saying she is guilty, i am saying that there is a huge probability that she is not legit and a money scam. She had a chance to prove herself, but refused and back out. Ok, she might be sick of this community and whatsoever that she didn't want to deal with it anymore, but If you are smart enough to become a pro HS player and you have a nice chance to achieve something and even make money of it (especially in her money hungry scenario), I doubt you would just back out. Also I am sure that among respected community, she would prove herself by showing up at a LAN tournament and playing at her average level (everyone can lose, but still play decent). Maybe she would remain guilty for those angry internet kids, but who cares about them....If she will be respected among the pro community, she will steadily get her respect everywhere else.
Also i have to laugh at those who say: This all happened just because she is a girl. Honestly I am a bit disappointed that it had to end like this. I definately think HS needs more good female players.
It is suprising to you that people have oposing views on a subject and that those views would be discussed in a post dedicated to that subject?
Of course it matters, your behaviour is not justified by it being done.
When it comes to hearthstone I sometimes have a hard time telling the difference between a fair chunk of the streamers and angry internet kids, they seem to feed of eachother.
You are not saying she is guilty you are just saying she is probably guilty? Would you seriously want to stay after all this? I am sure there are some who would but not wanting to after this is hardly proof of guilt. I'm not arguing there is not evidence, neither am I arguing probability, I'm arguing that giving people not proven guilty the guilty treatment is a shitty way of behaving.
Do i really have to explain this to you? If i was at her place and one of my biggest recent life goals would be to achieve being a pro HS player and even be able to make money by it (as it seemed in her case), I would definately not be stopped by some circlejerking internet boys if i knew i am innocent. I find it hard to believe that someone can have a "dream" and just give up like that. If you do not see the reality in this, then you must be really ignorant or never had any goal in life except maybe arguing/trolling on the internet. I might even call you a little slow if you dont understand how pathetic (or unrealistic) her giving up looks like. She pretty much proven herslef guilty in my eyes.
Are you serious? You have been treated like shit by other players and the community and now they demand you stand in front of them and perform for them for theri satisfaction and if you lose you will be branded 100% guilty, and you think everyone would be strong enough to do this? I woulden't, this is not a community worth fighting to be a part of, that much we do have evidence of.
Loads of people give up on their dreams every second every day, do you think many people dream of working retail? They stop chasing them for different reasons, being trashed by the people suposedly supporting you and your peers would definitly be a good reason.
You being so narrow minded you cant concieve of other people having another perspective on this then you do speak volumes.
Obviously you don't get it as you showed in multiple posts here and it's fine. I understand that some people just don't get it. Comparing that little effort she had to show (taken she was so close) to people not quitting their job to do their dream job is just silly. I am done arguing with you as it is pointless. Hopefully other people took from my posts what was intended.
On February 21 2015 01:20 Sejanus wrote: It seems the only reason ddayzy registered here was to accuse people of being rapists
I'm not implying he is from Canada, but who knows... In any case I wish the matter could be discussed in a civilized way, without calling people rapists, scum, disgusting and so on. But it seems it's hardly possible, since the people who are most vocal against online harassment are the ones doing it most often.
The irony and self pity in this post is staggering. One of the pillars of a civil society is innocent until proven guilty and yet you want to have a civil discussion if we should tear it down?
If you want to dish it out don't go and play the victim when you get the same back.
Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in modern society. Before you are convicted of a crime you sit in jail. During your trial, you are in handcuffs and a prison jumpsuit and are escorted by prison guards between the courthouse and the jail. That reads alot more like guilty until proven innocent to me.
Another interesting note is that during a criminal trial if you do nothing to disprove the evidence laid against you, you are found guilty. The burden is on you to disprove the accusations against you.
This statment is both scary and funny at the same time. You assume every person who gets arrested is guilty? I don't, which one of us do you think is the smarter person?
No it is not, you are found guilty if it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that you did it.
Proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is the burden of conviction for the prosecution in a CRIMINAL TRIAL. There are no criminal charges filed here. If anything this would be a civil case for fraud in which the burden of proof is a "preponderance of the evidence." The CIVIL suit standard is lower than criminal because there is no potential loss of liberty (jail time) for most civil offenses. Basically, you are using the wrong evidentiary standard or "burden of proof" as it is called.
Like it or not, Magicamy doesn't have a right to be innocent until proven guilty here as you have been so adamantly claiming. At best, someone accusing her of fraud would only have to show that based on a reasonable interpretation of the evidence, that she committed the acts in question. I can promise you that circumstantial evidence presented on Reddit, Chakki's twitter, and statements of those she allegedly conned would all be admissible against her, even though it does not directly prove the scam.
Stop trying to hide behind a weak legal argument that you very clearly do not understand.
are we applying the American criminal law in this case, since it involves a Canadian man, a Korean woman, and a bunch of international people?
Yes, I am applying general American criminal and civil law. There are probably international implications to this, but for the sake of argument (and for the fact that I only know American law) I am only addressing the US law.
On February 21 2015 01:20 Sejanus wrote: It seems the only reason ddayzy registered here was to accuse people of being rapists
I'm not implying he is from Canada, but who knows... In any case I wish the matter could be discussed in a civilized way, without calling people rapists, scum, disgusting and so on. But it seems it's hardly possible, since the people who are most vocal against online harassment are the ones doing it most often.
The irony and self pity in this post is staggering. One of the pillars of a civil society is innocent until proven guilty and yet you want to have a civil discussion if we should tear it down?
If you want to dish it out don't go and play the victim when you get the same back.
Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in modern society. Before you are convicted of a crime you sit in jail. During your trial, you are in handcuffs and a prison jumpsuit and are escorted by prison guards between the courthouse and the jail. That reads alot more like guilty until proven innocent to me.
Another interesting note is that during a criminal trial if you do nothing to disprove the evidence laid against you, you are found guilty. The burden is on you to disprove the accusations against you.
This statment is both scary and funny at the same time. You assume every person who gets arrested is guilty? I don't, which one of us do you think is the smarter person?
No it is not, you are found guilty if it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that you did it.
Proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is the burden of conviction for the prosecution in a CRIMINAL TRIAL. There are no criminal charges filed here. If anything this would be a civil case for fraud in which the burden of proof is a "preponderance of the evidence." The CIVIL suit standard is lower than criminal because there is no potential loss of liberty (jail time) for most civil offenses. Basically, you are using the wrong evidentiary standard or "burden of proof" as it is called.
Like it or not, Magicamy doesn't have a right to be innocent until proven guilty here as you have been so adamantly claiming. At best, someone accusing her of fraud would only have to show that based on a reasonable interpretation of the evidence, that she committed the acts in question. I can promise you that circumstantial evidence presented on Reddit, Chakki's twitter, and statements of those she allegedly conned would all be admissible against her, even though it does not directly prove the scam.
Stop trying to hide behind a weak legal argument that you very clearly do not understand.
are we applying the American criminal law in this case, since it involves a Canadian man, a Korean woman, and a bunch of international people?
Yes, I am applying general American criminal and civil law. There are certainly international implications to this, but for the sake of argument (and for the fact that I only know American law) I am only addressing the US law.
the funny thing is many jurisdictions apply a clear and convincing burden of proof for fraud in the US....
not that it matters in any way, i just love internet lawyers.
On February 21 2015 01:20 Sejanus wrote: It seems the only reason ddayzy registered here was to accuse people of being rapists
I'm not implying he is from Canada, but who knows... In any case I wish the matter could be discussed in a civilized way, without calling people rapists, scum, disgusting and so on. But it seems it's hardly possible, since the people who are most vocal against online harassment are the ones doing it most often.
The irony and self pity in this post is staggering. One of the pillars of a civil society is innocent until proven guilty and yet you want to have a civil discussion if we should tear it down?
If you want to dish it out don't go and play the victim when you get the same back.
Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in modern society. Before you are convicted of a crime you sit in jail. During your trial, you are in handcuffs and a prison jumpsuit and are escorted by prison guards between the courthouse and the jail. That reads alot more like guilty until proven innocent to me.
Another interesting note is that during a criminal trial if you do nothing to disprove the evidence laid against you, you are found guilty. The burden is on you to disprove the accusations against you.
This statment is both scary and funny at the same time. You assume every person who gets arrested is guilty? I don't, which one of us do you think is the smarter person?
No it is not, you are found guilty if it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that you did it.
Proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is the burden of conviction for the prosecution in a CRIMINAL TRIAL. There are no criminal charges filed here. If anything this would be a civil case for fraud in which the burden of proof is a "preponderance of the evidence." The CIVIL suit standard is lower than criminal because there is no potential loss of liberty (jail time) for most civil offenses. Basically, you are using the wrong evidentiary standard or "burden of proof" as it is called.
Like it or not, Magicamy doesn't have a right to be innocent until proven guilty here as you have been so adamantly claiming. At best, someone accusing her of fraud would only have to show that based on a reasonable interpretation of the evidence, that she committed the acts in question. I can promise you that circumstantial evidence presented on Reddit, Chakki's twitter, and statements of those she allegedly conned would all be admissible against her, even though it does not directly prove the scam.
Stop trying to hide behind a weak legal argument that you very clearly do not understand.
are we applying the American criminal law in this case, since it involves a Canadian man, a Korean woman, and a bunch of international people?
Yes, I am applying general American criminal and civil law. There are certainly international implications to this, but for the sake of argument (and for the fact that I only know American law) I am only addressing the US law.
the funny thing is many jurisdictions apply a clear and convincing burden of proof for fraud in the US....
not that it matters in any way, i just love internet lawyers.
So you accuse me of being an internet lawyer when you just googled a jurisdictional split on the BoP for fraud?
You were correct: it certainly does not matter. "Clear and convincing" is still a lower standard than "beyond a reasonable doubt." Nice try discrediting me, maybe next time.
On February 21 2015 01:20 Sejanus wrote: It seems the only reason ddayzy registered here was to accuse people of being rapists
I'm not implying he is from Canada, but who knows... In any case I wish the matter could be discussed in a civilized way, without calling people rapists, scum, disgusting and so on. But it seems it's hardly possible, since the people who are most vocal against online harassment are the ones doing it most often.
The irony and self pity in this post is staggering. One of the pillars of a civil society is innocent until proven guilty and yet you want to have a civil discussion if we should tear it down?
If you want to dish it out don't go and play the victim when you get the same back.
Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in modern society. Before you are convicted of a crime you sit in jail. During your trial, you are in handcuffs and a prison jumpsuit and are escorted by prison guards between the courthouse and the jail. That reads alot more like guilty until proven innocent to me.
Another interesting note is that during a criminal trial if you do nothing to disprove the evidence laid against you, you are found guilty. The burden is on you to disprove the accusations against you.
This statment is both scary and funny at the same time. You assume every person who gets arrested is guilty? I don't, which one of us do you think is the smarter person?
No it is not, you are found guilty if it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that you did it.
Proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is the burden of conviction for the prosecution in a CRIMINAL TRIAL. There are no criminal charges filed here. If anything this would be a civil case for fraud in which the burden of proof is a "preponderance of the evidence." The CIVIL suit standard is lower than criminal because there is no potential loss of liberty (jail time) for most civil offenses. Basically, you are using the wrong evidentiary standard or "burden of proof" as it is called.
Like it or not, Magicamy doesn't have a right to be innocent until proven guilty here as you have been so adamantly claiming. At best, someone accusing her of fraud would only have to show that based on a reasonable interpretation of the evidence, that she committed the acts in question. I can promise you that circumstantial evidence presented on Reddit, Chakki's twitter, and statements of those she allegedly conned would all be admissible against her, even though it does not directly prove the scam.
Stop trying to hide behind a weak legal argument that you very clearly do not understand.
are we applying the American criminal law in this case, since it involves a Canadian man, a Korean woman, and a bunch of international people?
Yes, I am applying general American criminal and civil law. There are certainly international implications to this, but for the sake of argument (and for the fact that I only know American law) I am only addressing the US law.
the funny thing is many jurisdictions apply a clear and convincing burden of proof for fraud in the US....
not that it matters in any way, i just love internet lawyers.
So you accuse me of being an internet lawyer when you just googled a jurisdictional split on the BoP for fraud?
You were correct: it certainly does not matter. "Clear and convincing" is still a lower standard than "beyond a reasonable doubt." Nice try discrediting me, maybe next time.
i didn't google. i am a california lawyer. you have made multiple misstatements of law while claiming some sort of superiority in american law. its amazing to me. i am not discrediting you, your statements discredit you as any sort of expert on american law.
On February 21 2015 01:20 Sejanus wrote: It seems the only reason ddayzy registered here was to accuse people of being rapists
I'm not implying he is from Canada, but who knows... In any case I wish the matter could be discussed in a civilized way, without calling people rapists, scum, disgusting and so on. But it seems it's hardly possible, since the people who are most vocal against online harassment are the ones doing it most often.
The irony and self pity in this post is staggering. One of the pillars of a civil society is innocent until proven guilty and yet you want to have a civil discussion if we should tear it down?
If you want to dish it out don't go and play the victim when you get the same back.
Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in modern society. Before you are convicted of a crime you sit in jail. During your trial, you are in handcuffs and a prison jumpsuit and are escorted by prison guards between the courthouse and the jail. That reads alot more like guilty until proven innocent to me.
Another interesting note is that during a criminal trial if you do nothing to disprove the evidence laid against you, you are found guilty. The burden is on you to disprove the accusations against you.
This statment is both scary and funny at the same time. You assume every person who gets arrested is guilty? I don't, which one of us do you think is the smarter person?
No it is not, you are found guilty if it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that you did it.
Proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is the burden of conviction for the prosecution in a CRIMINAL TRIAL. There are no criminal charges filed here. If anything this would be a civil case for fraud in which the burden of proof is a "preponderance of the evidence." The CIVIL suit standard is lower than criminal because there is no potential loss of liberty (jail time) for most civil offenses. Basically, you are using the wrong evidentiary standard or "burden of proof" as it is called.
Like it or not, Magicamy doesn't have a right to be innocent until proven guilty here as you have been so adamantly claiming. At best, someone accusing her of fraud would only have to show that based on a reasonable interpretation of the evidence, that she committed the acts in question. I can promise you that circumstantial evidence presented on Reddit, Chakki's twitter, and statements of those she allegedly conned would all be admissible against her, even though it does not directly prove the scam.
Stop trying to hide behind a weak legal argument that you very clearly do not understand.
are we applying the American criminal law in this case, since it involves a Canadian man, a Korean woman, and a bunch of international people?
Yes, I am applying general American criminal and civil law. There are certainly international implications to this, but for the sake of argument (and for the fact that I only know American law) I am only addressing the US law.
the funny thing is many jurisdictions apply a clear and convincing burden of proof for fraud in the US....
not that it matters in any way, i just love internet lawyers.
So you accuse me of being an internet lawyer when you just googled a jurisdictional split on the BoP for fraud?
You were correct: it certainly does not matter. "Clear and convincing" is still a lower standard than "beyond a reasonable doubt." Nice try discrediting me, maybe next time.
i didn't google. i am a california lawyer. you have made multiple misstatements of law while claiming some sort of superiority in american law. its amazing to me. i am not discrediting you, your statements discredit you as any sort of expert on american law.
here's a shovel, keep digging that hole.
Not worth my time.
If this guy is a California lawyer, then I'm Magicamy (keep in mind it's against the law in CA to falsely claim to be a lawyer).
The irony and self pity in this post is staggering. One of the pillars of a civil society is innocent until proven guilty and yet you want to have a civil discussion if we should tear it down?
If you want to dish it out don't go and play the victim when you get the same back.
Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in modern society. Before you are convicted of a crime you sit in jail. During your trial, you are in handcuffs and a prison jumpsuit and are escorted by prison guards between the courthouse and the jail. That reads alot more like guilty until proven innocent to me.
Another interesting note is that during a criminal trial if you do nothing to disprove the evidence laid against you, you are found guilty. The burden is on you to disprove the accusations against you.
This statment is both scary and funny at the same time. You assume every person who gets arrested is guilty? I don't, which one of us do you think is the smarter person?
No it is not, you are found guilty if it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that you did it.
Proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is the burden of conviction for the prosecution in a CRIMINAL TRIAL. There are no criminal charges filed here. If anything this would be a civil case for fraud in which the burden of proof is a "preponderance of the evidence." The CIVIL suit standard is lower than criminal because there is no potential loss of liberty (jail time) for most civil offenses. Basically, you are using the wrong evidentiary standard or "burden of proof" as it is called.
Like it or not, Magicamy doesn't have a right to be innocent until proven guilty here as you have been so adamantly claiming. At best, someone accusing her of fraud would only have to show that based on a reasonable interpretation of the evidence, that she committed the acts in question. I can promise you that circumstantial evidence presented on Reddit, Chakki's twitter, and statements of those she allegedly conned would all be admissible against her, even though it does not directly prove the scam.
Stop trying to hide behind a weak legal argument that you very clearly do not understand.
are we applying the American criminal law in this case, since it involves a Canadian man, a Korean woman, and a bunch of international people?
Yes, I am applying general American criminal and civil law. There are certainly international implications to this, but for the sake of argument (and for the fact that I only know American law) I am only addressing the US law.
the funny thing is many jurisdictions apply a clear and convincing burden of proof for fraud in the US....
not that it matters in any way, i just love internet lawyers.
So you accuse me of being an internet lawyer when you just googled a jurisdictional split on the BoP for fraud?
You were correct: it certainly does not matter. "Clear and convincing" is still a lower standard than "beyond a reasonable doubt." Nice try discrediting me, maybe next time.
i didn't google. i am a california lawyer. you have made multiple misstatements of law while claiming some sort of superiority in american law. its amazing to me. i am not discrediting you, your statements discredit you as any sort of expert on american law.
here's a shovel, keep digging that hole.
Not worth my time.
thats too bad, because i was getting ready to list your misstatements as you requested.
The only thing that seems sillier to me than adamantly believing all the bad stuff about MagicAmy is adamantly believing none of it.
I'm glad Tempostorm had the guts to give her an ultimatum, though. I didn't think they would, and if your team member isn't going to go to LANs despite not having any obstacles in her way they're not worth your time or money.
lolwot. i have no opinion on this matter, but the fact that there's someone out there that could have these intentions is flat out funny. and kinda shows how ppl are drawn to just a pretty face on a stream...
I don't believe a word anonymous internet retards are saying about magicamy.
Why would she/he do the dual personalities? It makes no sense, she is not very attractive to get significantly more twitch views from that and guys get more views anyways. Nadia and Hafu are pretty legit in their hearthstone legend ranks, but its still couple dozen of guys who have a lot more views than they do.
And Hearthstone doesn't require much skill at all. I mean don't kid yourself, its a very simple and easy game with very low skill ceiling.
Brood War has like 50 skill ceiling SC2 - 40 Dota 1 - 20 Dota 2 - 10 Hearthstone - 5
As far as the burden of proof on one's guilt lies, many people here are confused between an actual civil/criminal trial and public perceptions. People will form opinions on whether someone is guilty based on the evidence they see. Most may not be comfortable with making a definitive call on guilt, but will see any piece of evidence as increasing or decreasing the perceived likelihood that someone is guilty. In my opinion, this piece of news points to a higher likelihood that MagicAmy is a fraud in the absence of further information. I don't actually know the truth, but I am less inclined to believe what she says than before.
It would be unreasonable for punishments to be handed out to her by any appropriate authorities at this point, including Blizzard, as she has not actually been proven guilty. However, if she doesn't put in some effort to dispel the suspicion, then it is completely reasonable for people to form opinions, and she should have expected that.
On February 21 2015 13:12 BillGates wrote: I don't believe a word anonymous internet retards are saying about magicamy.
Why would she/he do the dual personalities? It makes no sense, she is not very attractive to get significantly more twitch views from that and guys get more views anyways. Nadia and Hafu are pretty legit in their hearthstone legend ranks, but its still couple dozen of guys who have a lot more views than they do.
And Hearthstone doesn't require much skill at all. I mean don't kid yourself, its a very simple and easy game with very low skill ceiling.
Brood War has like 50 skill ceiling SC2 - 40 Dota 1 - 20 Dota 2 - 10 Hearthstone - 5
I'll bite, why is the skill ceiling in Dota 1 twice as high? Harder UI?
On February 21 2015 13:12 BillGates wrote: I don't believe a word anonymous internet retards are saying about magicamy.
Why would she/he do the dual personalities? It makes no sense, she is not very attractive to get significantly more twitch views from that and guys get more views anyways. Nadia and Hafu are pretty legit in their hearthstone legend ranks, but its still couple dozen of guys who have a lot more views than they do.
And Hearthstone doesn't require much skill at all. I mean don't kid yourself, its a very simple and easy game with very low skill ceiling.
Brood War has like 50 skill ceiling SC2 - 40 Dota 1 - 20 Dota 2 - 10 Hearthstone - 5
the only thing that interested me about her was that she was female and appeared to have legit skill. other than trump, i dont remember a single other person from the ESL tournament. the only reason i remember trump was because he was doing stupid shit and then lost to her spectacularly.
in my mind, the likelihood tempostorm would have immediately picked her up after ESL if she wasnt a female is low. they wanted the new miracle female.
On February 21 2015 13:12 BillGates wrote: I don't believe a word anonymous internet retards are saying about magicamy.
Why would she/he do the dual personalities? It makes no sense, she is not very attractive to get significantly more twitch views from that and guys get more views anyways. Nadia and Hafu are pretty legit in their hearthstone legend ranks, but its still couple dozen of guys who have a lot more views than they do.
And Hearthstone doesn't require much skill at all. I mean don't kid yourself, its a very simple and easy game with very low skill ceiling.
Brood War has like 50 skill ceiling SC2 - 40 Dota 1 - 20 Dota 2 - 10 Hearthstone - 5
I'll bite, why is the skill ceiling in Dota 1 twice as high? Harder UI?
Exactly. Same for Brood War over SC2. The new UI's and "advancements" are all basically dumbing downs for games for dumber and dumber people!
On February 21 2015 13:12 BillGates wrote: I don't believe a word anonymous internet retards are saying about magicamy.
Why would she/he do the dual personalities? It makes no sense, she is not very attractive to get significantly more twitch views from that and guys get more views anyways. Nadia and Hafu are pretty legit in their hearthstone legend ranks, but its still couple dozen of guys who have a lot more views than they do.
And Hearthstone doesn't require much skill at all. I mean don't kid yourself, its a very simple and easy game with very low skill ceiling.
Brood War has like 50 skill ceiling SC2 - 40 Dota 1 - 20 Dota 2 - 10 Hearthstone - 5
Interesting rating of skill ceiling. Where would QWOP rank on there?
Anyways, twitch is like TV. People want to watch the famous or the personalities over watching people who've got only skill. Its about entertainment.
Nice trollfest in here. Seems like there is nothing interesting to write about HS at all. Look at this thread. Cyvil rights, women,skill celling, games that are dumbed down,personalities.
On February 21 2015 13:12 BillGates wrote: I don't believe a word anonymous internet retards are saying about magicamy.
Why would she/he do the dual personalities? It makes no sense, she is not very attractive to get significantly more twitch views from that and guys get more views anyways. Nadia and Hafu are pretty legit in their hearthstone legend ranks, but its still couple dozen of guys who have a lot more views than they do.
And Hearthstone doesn't require much skill at all. I mean don't kid yourself, its a very simple and easy game with very low skill ceiling.
Brood War has like 50 skill ceiling SC2 - 40 Dota 1 - 20 Dota 2 - 10 Hearthstone - 5
I'll bite, why is the skill ceiling in Dota 1 twice as high? Harder UI?
Exactly. Same for Brood War over SC2. The new UI's and "advancements" are all basically dumbing downs for games for dumber and dumber people!
Judging from the hilarious list that you posted, they must have people like you in mind when developing those "advancements". :^)
On February 21 2015 17:11 Solmyr wrote: Nice trollfest in here. Seems like there is nothing interesting to write about HS at all. Look at this thread. Cyvil rights, women,skill celling, games that are dumbed down,personalities.
Why are people active only when the heat is on?
Is the game really that boring ?
Yep. We have alot of free time during games since many people play like Lifecoach....
Here's the thing. Some people have some suspicions about some shit and decide to be little internet sleuths and then break their findings as if they're conclusive proof of something via reddit instead of taking it to people who had the means to investigate properly. So you're about to break a story that, true or not, is almost certainly going to ruin someone's career.
I mean look at all these people who know fuck all about what really happened and just don't give a shit? They're just going to take literally everything that's said or shown to them as evidence that MagicAmy is guilty. Won't talk to Forsen on Skype? Guilty. Won't jump through hoops to satisfy my curiosity? Guilty. Will jump through hoops but doesn't jump to my satisfaction? Guilty? Won't make a personal statement defending herself? Guilty. Makes a personal statement defending herself? Probably lying and still guilty. Anyone with a passing acquaintance with reality knows that there is exactly nothing Amy could say or do to convince these people of her innocence.
It doesn't even matter what the truth is because this community has condemned her and WOULD condemn her regardless. Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together should know that breaking this story, true or not, would ruin this person's career. It was nigh on inevitable. Decent people would give a shit about this and strive to protect this person's privacy in case they were wrong. Because if you're wrong, you've ruined an innocent person's career. A decent person cares about these things. They care about being sure they're right before they fuck with someone's life and career.
So, do I know whether MagicAmy is guilty or not? Nope. But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions. So, congratulations and shit.
On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote: ... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game.
Or you know... stream for the first time ever
So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious.
If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why? Why wouldn't someone just fucking cut their losses and find something else to do with their life besides try to prove their worth to a bunch of gullible jackasses who are falling all over themselves to believe every negative thing about you and turn every mistake you ever made into evidence of some nefarious scheme to do...something...nobody has the foggiest idea what the end goal is supposed to have been, but I'm sure it's horrible because reasons.
On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote: ... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game.
Or you know... stream for the first time ever
So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious.
If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why? [...]
First I want to say, that I don´t know if Magicamy exists or not. But all this "evidence" makes me at least think that there might be sth. to it.
So what would I do, if I would be Amy, you know, the "REAL Amy"? I´d laugh at it and come to a LAN. Do I have to? Hell no, but if I ever want to be taken serious in the future, then yes, I would do it. Especially if my team pays the trip anyway. So what would I do, if I am a fake Amy? Run away or let´s say "retire".
Are there things I could do in between those two outcomes? Certainly. Yet it is the internet and people will assume I am a fake. So If I can live with that, well, then there is no reason to cater some "investigators".
As to your question "why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community?": Depends on her/him or course. If she/he is interested in a) being invited to tournaments b) streaming or c) getting paid a salary then yes, you should want to be part of the community, because you being there will give you these opportunities.
We know, that she/he is not interested in a) or b). But I don´t think that situation as it is will make a c) possible anymore.
On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote: ... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game.
Or you know... stream for the first time ever
So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious.
If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why?
I dunno, maybe making a couple hundred thousand dollars in text-to-speech donation jokes on her stream until Twitch makes her silence it, then making slightly less money when donations are just displayed on her stream? That's why Reynad streams despite hating the game and everyone that watches his stream.
I mean, seriously. She could rake in money hand over fist and then disappear. That's a pretty obvious incentive to stream and remain active. There's no reason to believe she's some delicate flower (like Reynad) that can't handle people making obvious and stupid jokes at her expense to make a few hundred grand.
On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote: ... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game.
Or you know... stream for the first time ever
So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious.
If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why? [...]
First I want to say, that I don´t know if Magicamy exists or not. But all this "evidence" makes me at least think that there might be sth. to it.
So what would I do, if I would be Amy, you know, the "REAL Amy"? I´d laugh at it and come to a LAN. Do I have to? Hell no, but if I ever want to be taken serious in the future, then yes, I would do it.
If I'm the REAL Amy, why do I give a flying fuck about whether I'm taken seriously by the kind of people who've just done their damnedest to ruin my career? These people have already demonstrated that they don't, in fact, take me seriously and they've given me no reason to feel they're worth the effort it would take to win them back over to my side.
Are there things I could do in between those two outcomes? Certainly. Yet it is the internet and people will assume I am a fake. So If I can live with that, well, then there is no reason to cater some "investigators".
It's not catering to "investigators" that would keep me away. It would be the constant badgering and questions and mockery. It's easy for someone to whom none of this is happening to say you'd just laugh at it and go. You're not the one having to face that kind of treatment every time you stick your nose out your metaphorical front door for however long you're a part of the ESports scene.
As to your question "why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community?": Depends on her/him or course. If she/he is interested in a) being invited to tournaments b) streaming or c) getting paid a salary then yes, you should want to be part of the community, because you being there will give you these opportunities.
Explain why those opportunities are worth enduring the way people would treat her. There are a million ways to get paid a salary. Of course everyone would rather get paid a lot to do something they enjoy than just punch a clock for a modest wage. But if it's a situation where the people you'd have to spend your time around to do the thing you enjoy are treating you like shit? It's incredibly dishonest to act like choosing the more ordinary living in exchange for at least being treated decently isn't a perfectly reasonable choice to make. Again it's easy to act like it's just a bunch of harmless jokes when you're not the target of it.
On February 21 2015 13:12 BillGates wrote: I don't believe a word anonymous internet retards are saying about magicamy.
Why would she/he do the dual personalities? It makes no sense, she is not very attractive to get significantly more twitch views from that and guys get more views anyways. Nadia and Hafu are pretty legit in their hearthstone legend ranks, but its still couple dozen of guys who have a lot more views than they do.
And Hearthstone doesn't require much skill at all. I mean don't kid yourself, its a very simple and easy game with very low skill ceiling.
Brood War has like 50 skill ceiling SC2 - 40 Dota 1 - 20 Dota 2 - 10 Hearthstone - 5
I'll bite, why is the skill ceiling in Dota 1 twice as high? Harder UI?
Exactly. Same for Brood War over SC2. The new UI's and "advancements" are all basically dumbing downs for games for dumber and dumber people!
You're right. I sincerely miss having to control Dragoons that do precisely the opposite of what I tell them to do, or having scarabs wiff because of top-notch 90's programming.
On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote: ... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game.
Or you know... stream for the first time ever
So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious.
If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why?
I dunno, maybe making a couple hundred thousand dollars in text-to-speech donation jokes on her stream until Twitch makes her silence it, then making slightly less money when donations are just displayed on her stream? That's why Reynad streams despite hating the game and everyone that watches his stream.
I mean, seriously. She could rake in money hand over fist and then disappear. That's a pretty obvious incentive to stream and remain active. There's no reason to believe she's some delicate flower (like Reynad) that can't handle people making obvious and stupid jokes at her expense to make a few hundred grand.
What evidence? There is actually ZERO evidence. The "evidence" seems to be wild claims she hasn't played an offline tournament, that means she is bad at hearthstone and someone else is playing for her.
The other stuff is some personal issues with former boyfriend and employer. Its literally ZERO evidence about anything.
On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote: ... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game.
Or you know... stream for the first time ever
So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious.
If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why?
I dunno, maybe making a couple hundred thousand dollars in text-to-speech donation jokes on her stream until Twitch makes her silence it, then making slightly less money when donations are just displayed on her stream? That's why Reynad streams despite hating the game and everyone that watches his stream.
I mean, seriously. She could rake in money hand over fist and then disappear. That's a pretty obvious incentive to stream and remain active. There's no reason to believe she's some delicate flower (like Reynad) that can't handle people making obvious and stupid jokes at her expense to make a few hundred grand.
What evidence? There is actually ZERO evidence. The "evidence" seems to be wild claims she hasn't played an offline tournament, that means she is bad at hearthstone and someone else is playing for her.
The other stuff is some personal issues with former boyfriend and employer. Its literally ZERO evidence about anything.
You['re right theres zero evidence except that her former employer said, she asked for money for work she claimed she did and didnt do, She asked Jabs money and didnt return it like she promised or asked her.. and she woo'd Celerity and got him to spend 5k by alluding that she was romantically interested in him, later he found out and asked his money back.. She asked sjow for money but he didnt give it to her.. THERE IS NO evidence what are you talking about all those screenshots of her are all fake..
On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote: ... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game.
Or you know... stream for the first time ever
So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious.
If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why?
I dunno, maybe making a couple hundred thousand dollars in text-to-speech donation jokes on her stream until Twitch makes her silence it, then making slightly less money when donations are just displayed on her stream? That's why Reynad streams despite hating the game and everyone that watches his stream.
I mean, seriously. She could rake in money hand over fist and then disappear. That's a pretty obvious incentive to stream and remain active. There's no reason to believe she's some delicate flower (like Reynad) that can't handle people making obvious and stupid jokes at her expense to make a few hundred grand.
What evidence? There is actually ZERO evidence. The "evidence" seems to be wild claims she hasn't played an offline tournament, that means she is bad at hearthstone and someone else is playing for her.
The other stuff is some personal issues with former boyfriend and employer. Its literally ZERO evidence about anything.
You['re right theres zero evidence except that her former employer said, she asked for money for work she claimed she did and didnt do, She asked Jabs money and didnt return it like she promised or asked her.. and she woo'd Celerity and got him to spend 5k by alluding that she was romantically interested in him, later he found out and asked his money back.. She asked sjow for money but he didnt give it to her.. THERE IS NO evidence what are you talking about all those screenshots of her are all fake..
How does "must be a dude pretending to be a Korean girl" follow from not paying back money you borrowed? Please, connect those dots for me. I seem to be missing something.
The idea that you need hard evidence to ever believe something about anyone is kind of absurd because none of us could operate on the most basic level if we truly took this approach to heart. In your relationships and in your business you have to make decisions based on imperfect data; the same is true with respect to the credibility of any public figure. If numerous people are posting things about you, about problems in your past business relationships, and if people are observing very strange behaviour during gameplay (detached, unemotional responses), yes it isn't complete proof but it is at least enough to openly question magicamy and ask for some kind of explanation, which to my knowledge is the extent of what most people have been doing. And tempostorm's investigation based on these accusations was legitimate.
I believe everyone should accept these standards including magicamy (as opposed to the absurd standards some people here seem to support - i.e. requiring some kind of unambiguous hard evidence like catching someone in a video recording doing something nefarious), and she should try to meet the accusations openly and transparently. At the end of the day, if all this requires is playing an offline tournament (which she is ostensibly planning on doing anyway since that is part of her job description) I don't see the big deal.
At the end of the day though, when you read Tempo Storm's report they do make a good observation:
As a final point, we asked ourselves throughout the entire investigation “If she/he is a fraud, what is the end game?” because eventually the MagicAmy persona would have had to show up at an offline event as Hearthstone/Tempo Storm continued to grow. It made no logical sense to move from her homegrown team, which collectively placed top 8 at BlizzCon, to work extremely hard with our organization to get results, then “dash” when she’s getting paid for the good work she’s done. That would be the worst con of all time.
In addition to the other observations they made and their general findings I find it unlikely that she was really guilty. But I don't feel like the community did anything wrong. We should notice these oddities and examine the scene; as Kripparian pointed out in his response video there *are* cheaters in online tournaments and I think it helps if the community tries to be wary of these and other similar frauds, and yes, to point out suspicious things even when it isn't 100% proof, because if you follow that logic no one could accuse anyone of anything, and no investigations would ever occur.
On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote: ... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game.
Or you know... stream for the first time ever
So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious.
If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why?
I dunno, maybe making a couple hundred thousand dollars in text-to-speech donation jokes on her stream until Twitch makes her silence it, then making slightly less money when donations are just displayed on her stream? That's why Reynad streams despite hating the game and everyone that watches his stream.
I mean, seriously. She could rake in money hand over fist and then disappear. That's a pretty obvious incentive to stream and remain active. There's no reason to believe she's some delicate flower (like Reynad) that can't handle people making obvious and stupid jokes at her expense to make a few hundred grand.
What evidence? There is actually ZERO evidence. The "evidence" seems to be wild claims she hasn't played an offline tournament, that means she is bad at hearthstone and someone else is playing for her.
The other stuff is some personal issues with former boyfriend and employer. Its literally ZERO evidence about anything.
You['re right theres zero evidence except that her former employer said, she asked for money for work she claimed she did and didnt do, She asked Jabs money and didnt return it like she promised or asked her.. and she woo'd Celerity and got him to spend 5k by alluding that she was romantically interested in him, later he found out and asked his money back.. She asked sjow for money but he didnt give it to her.. THERE IS NO evidence what are you talking about all those screenshots of her are all fake..
How does "must be a dude pretending to be a Korean girl" follow from not paying back money you borrowed? Please, connect those dots for me. I seem to be missing something.
Im not saying shes a dude pretending to be a korean girl, Thats what bunch of people said also CHakki she might be real. What is real though is her trying to manipulate a whole bunch of poeople into thinking she was romantically interested in them and then asking money with really shady stories. In Jabs case she didnt even pay back and refused to answer him when he asked about his money back. And there is Sjow according to JAB. Now... these may all not be true, if we didnt see the chatlogs. But honestly all these "pros" are lying? Either way draw your own conclusion from an individual that manipulates by frliting and hinting shes interested and then asking for money. All of that plus the shady things surrounding her. I dont feel like you need any evidence to prove that it stinks.
On February 22 2015 14:23 radscorpion9 wrote: The idea that you need hard evidence to ever believe something about anyone is kind of absurd because none of us could operate on the most basic level if we truly took this approach to heart. In your relationships and in your business you have to make decisions based on imperfect data; the same is true with respect to the credibility of any public figure. If numerous people are posting things about you, about problems in your past business relationships, and if people are observing very strange behaviour during gameplay (detached, unemotional responses), yes it isn't complete proof but it is at least enough to openly question magicamy and ask for some kind of explanation, which to my knowledge is the extent of what most people have been doing. And tempostorm's investigation based on these accusations was legitimate.
Nobody is saying you need hard evidence to ever believe anything. That's a BS hyperskeptical way of looking at the world. And you're right. Nobody would actually be able to function in their daily life if they required perfect, incontrovertible evidence of what the outcome would be before they made any decision.
But that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about something that will ruin someone's career. Will ruin someone's career. Because let's be honest. That's why this broke. Specialist posted his reddit thread, with the intent that MagicAmy would not be part of the Hearthstone scene afterward. The story blew up, Chakki/Blackout posted their info to satisfy the community's curiosity and bolster Specialist's story. They, I'm sure, believe they are right, but the fact remains that they released this information with the intent of ending someone's career in Hearthstone. That's a big fucking deal. For most everyday decisions, you don't wait for perfect information because it's just not a practical way to live your life. But another human being's livelihood hung in the balance here. For something like that, you make damn sure you're right before you go shouting your suspicions from the mountaintops.
Also, I'm sick to death of people trying psychoanalyze Amy based on her mannerisms in video while she's playing. Tons of people don't wear their heart on their sleeve and people are individuals who respond in many and varied ways to the same things. To look at someone and decide they're suspicious because they didn't react to something the way you think they should is pure, unmitigated horseshit. I mean, watch Lifecoach play some time. On every turn he looks like responsibility for the most important decision history has ever faced has fallen on his shoulders. Other players look bored out of their minds and I've seen every variation in between.
On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote: ... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game.
Or you know... stream for the first time ever
So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious.
If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why?
I dunno, maybe making a couple hundred thousand dollars in text-to-speech donation jokes on her stream until Twitch makes her silence it, then making slightly less money when donations are just displayed on her stream? That's why Reynad streams despite hating the game and everyone that watches his stream.
I mean, seriously. She could rake in money hand over fist and then disappear. That's a pretty obvious incentive to stream and remain active. There's no reason to believe she's some delicate flower (like Reynad) that can't handle people making obvious and stupid jokes at her expense to make a few hundred grand.
What evidence? There is actually ZERO evidence. The "evidence" seems to be wild claims she hasn't played an offline tournament, that means she is bad at hearthstone and someone else is playing for her.
The other stuff is some personal issues with former boyfriend and employer. Its literally ZERO evidence about anything.
You['re right theres zero evidence except that her former employer said, she asked for money for work she claimed she did and didnt do, She asked Jabs money and didnt return it like she promised or asked her.. and she woo'd Celerity and got him to spend 5k by alluding that she was romantically interested in him, later he found out and asked his money back.. She asked sjow for money but he didnt give it to her.. THERE IS NO evidence what are you talking about all those screenshots of her are all fake..
How does "must be a dude pretending to be a Korean girl" follow from not paying back money you borrowed? Please, connect those dots for me. I seem to be missing something.
Im not saying shes a dude pretending to be a korean girl, Thats what bunch of people said also CHakki she might be real. What is real though is her trying to manipulate a whole bunch of poeople into thinking she was romantically interested in them and then asking money with really shady stories. In Jabs case she didnt even pay back and refused to answer him when he asked about his money back. And there is Sjow according to JAB. Now... these may all not be true, if we didnt see the chatlogs. But honestly all these "pros" are lying? Either way draw your own conclusion from an individual that manipulates by frliting and hinting shes interested and then asking for money. All of that plus the shady things surrounding her. I dont feel like you need any evidence to prove that it stinks.
They don't have to be lying for this to be a bullshit way to deal with the situation. If MagicAmy flirted with people who then gave her money and then she evaded paying it back, that's between them and her. Not between them and the whole world including her employer. It's a reason to not lend MagicAmy money, not a reason to destroy her career. Imagine if that was a standard people were actually held to in the real world: that you'd would be unemployable just because you'd borrowed money from people and then made a bunch of stupid excuses and avoided your creditors.
Have you seen Savjz yesterday when loosing with SilentStorm from team MagicAmy. Now that was some reaction. I wonder if he was really mad with 0-3 or this has something to do with the Magicamy fiasco.
On February 22 2015 16:28 Solmyr wrote: Have you seen Savjz yesterday when loosing with SilentStorm from team MagicAmy. Now that was some reaction. I wonder if he was really mad with 0-3 or this has something to do with the Magicamy fiasco.
I think, if you're not kidding, I've got a tinfoil hat I'd like to sell you.
On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote: ... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game.
Or you know... stream for the first time ever
So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious.
If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why?
I dunno, maybe making a couple hundred thousand dollars in text-to-speech donation jokes on her stream until Twitch makes her silence it, then making slightly less money when donations are just displayed on her stream? That's why Reynad streams despite hating the game and everyone that watches his stream.
I mean, seriously. She could rake in money hand over fist and then disappear. That's a pretty obvious incentive to stream and remain active. There's no reason to believe she's some delicate flower (like Reynad) that can't handle people making obvious and stupid jokes at her expense to make a few hundred grand.
What evidence? There is actually ZERO evidence. The "evidence" seems to be wild claims she hasn't played an offline tournament, that means she is bad at hearthstone and someone else is playing for her.
The other stuff is some personal issues with former boyfriend and employer. Its literally ZERO evidence about anything.
You['re right theres zero evidence except that her former employer said, she asked for money for work she claimed she did and didnt do, She asked Jabs money and didnt return it like she promised or asked her.. and she woo'd Celerity and got him to spend 5k by alluding that she was romantically interested in him, later he found out and asked his money back.. She asked sjow for money but he didnt give it to her.. THERE IS NO evidence what are you talking about all those screenshots of her are all fake..
How does "must be a dude pretending to be a Korean girl" follow from not paying back money you borrowed? Please, connect those dots for me. I seem to be missing something.
Im not saying shes a dude pretending to be a korean girl, Thats what bunch of people said also CHakki she might be real. What is real though is her trying to manipulate a whole bunch of poeople into thinking she was romantically interested in them and then asking money with really shady stories. In Jabs case she didnt even pay back and refused to answer him when he asked about his money back. And there is Sjow according to JAB. Now... these may all not be true, if we didnt see the chatlogs. But honestly all these "pros" are lying? Either way draw your own conclusion from an individual that manipulates by frliting and hinting shes interested and then asking for money. All of that plus the shady things surrounding her. I dont feel like you need any evidence to prove that it stinks.
They don't have to be lying for this to be a bullshit way to deal with the situation. If MagicAmy flirted with people who then gave her money and then she evaded paying it back, that's between them and her. Not between them and the whole world including her employer. It's a reason to not lend MagicAmy money, not a reason to destroy her career. Imagine if that was a standard people were actually held to in the real world: that you'd would be unemployable just because you'd borrowed money from people and then made a bunch of stupid excuses and avoided your creditors.
plus. nobody (except maybe tempostorm) has heard her side of the story. why do people accept one person's side of the story as fact?
On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote: ... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game.
Or you know... stream for the first time ever
So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious.
If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why? [...]
First I want to say, that I don´t know if Magicamy exists or not. But all this "evidence" makes me at least think that there might be sth. to it.
So what would I do, if I would be Amy, you know, the "REAL Amy"? I´d laugh at it and come to a LAN. Do I have to? Hell no, but if I ever want to be taken serious in the future, then yes, I would do it.
If I'm the REAL Amy, why do I give a flying fuck about whether I'm taken seriously by the kind of people who've just done their damnedest to ruin my career? These people have already demonstrated that they don't, in fact, take me seriously and they've given me no reason to feel they're worth the effort it would take to win them back over to my side.
Are there things I could do in between those two outcomes? Certainly. Yet it is the internet and people will assume I am a fake. So If I can live with that, well, then there is no reason to cater some "investigators".
It's not catering to "investigators" that would keep me away. It would be the constant badgering and questions and mockery. It's easy for someone to whom none of this is happening to say you'd just laugh at it and go. You're not the one having to face that kind of treatment every time you stick your nose out your metaphorical front door for however long you're a part of the ESports scene.
As to your question "why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community?": Depends on her/him or course. If she/he is interested in a) being invited to tournaments b) streaming or c) getting paid a salary then yes, you should want to be part of the community, because you being there will give you these opportunities.
Explain why those opportunities are worth enduring the way people would treat her. There are a million ways to get paid a salary. Of course everyone would rather get paid a lot to do something they enjoy than just punch a clock for a modest wage. But if it's a situation where the people you'd have to spend your time around to do the thing you enjoy are treating you like shit? It's incredibly dishonest to act like choosing the more ordinary living in exchange for at least being treated decently isn't a perfectly reasonable choice to make. Again it's easy to act like it's just a bunch of harmless jokes when you're not the target of it.
To make it simple: As long as people are overreacting (like you or the witchhunters do) this is "sth. big". Chill dude. Like you said: "no reason to feel they're worth the effort" And yes, if you would laugh it off, then there would be less drama.
If you can´t take attention then being any kind of public person is simply undesireable (that alone is enough of a reason why I would never go competetive or become a public person).
Why are those opportunities worth it? Well it is money involved. As far as I can see it, she/he is interested in that. She/he proved that already by tricking people to steal their money, so why would she/he now be the saint, who would never try to get more money out of the possible fake persona? She/he seems to have already done that. But again, tricking people seems to be one of your "million ways so get a a salary".
Last but not least: Honestly yes, it seems to me a big joke. Sadly, one where people got hurt. But who hurt whom here? All I know is that people claim to be tricked by MagicAmy. So maybe you are defending the wrong person.
Yet, I still don´t know, if MagicAmy is a fraud or not. As it stands she/he alone could prove all accusations to be wrong. Seems like she/he does not want to. So we will never know. Case closed for me.
On February 22 2015 19:00 Elizar wrote: Why are those opportunities worth it? Well it is money involved. As far as I can see it, she/he is interested in that. She/he proved that already by tricking people to steal their money, so why would she/he now be the saint, who would never try to get more money out of the possible fake persona? She/he seems to have already done that. But again, tricking people seems to be one of your "million ways so get a a salary".
Who said she's a saint who would never try to milk the situation further? I was responding to people saying that taking a break is nothing but further evidence of guilt. I'm saying IF Amy is who she says she is, quitting Hearthstone is a perfectly reasonable choice.
Last but not least: Honestly yes, it seems to me a big joke. Sadly, one where people got hurt. But who hurt whom here? All I know is that people claim to be tricked by MagicAmy. So maybe you are defending the wrong person.
I'm not defending anyone. I'm admitting what I don't know and calling people out for pretending to know shit they don't know and citing perfectly reasonable behavior as evidence of wrongdoing.
Yet, I still don´t know, if MagicAmy is a fraud or not. As it stands she/he alone could prove all accusations to be wrong. Seems like she/he does not want to. So we will never know. Case closed for me.
Oh, please. Don't pretend to occupy some middle ground when just earlier in this same post you're talking about MagicAmy stealing money as if you know for a fact that's what happened.
On February 22 2015 19:35 piegasm wrote: Oh, please. Don't pretend to occupy some middle ground when just earlier in this same post you're talking about MagicAmy stealing money as if you know for a fact that's what happened.
" ...get more money out of the possible fake persona? She/he seems to have already done that." "All I know is that people claim to be tricked by MagicAmy."
Yeah, I totally stated those as a fact. Horrible me. At least I don´t jump on everybody in this thread who thinks sth. might be fishy here. Again: might be.
On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote: ... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game.
Or you know... stream for the first time ever
So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious.
If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why?
I dunno, maybe making a couple hundred thousand dollars in text-to-speech donation jokes on her stream until Twitch makes her silence it, then making slightly less money when donations are just displayed on her stream? That's why Reynad streams despite hating the game and everyone that watches his stream.
I mean, seriously. She could rake in money hand over fist and then disappear. That's a pretty obvious incentive to stream and remain active. There's no reason to believe she's some delicate flower (like Reynad) that can't handle people making obvious and stupid jokes at her expense to make a few hundred grand.
What evidence? There is actually ZERO evidence. The "evidence" seems to be wild claims she hasn't played an offline tournament, that means she is bad at hearthstone and someone else is playing for her.
The other stuff is some personal issues with former boyfriend and employer. Its literally ZERO evidence about anything.
You['re right theres zero evidence except that her former employer said, she asked for money for work she claimed she did and didnt do, She asked Jabs money and didnt return it like she promised or asked her.. and she woo'd Celerity and got him to spend 5k by alluding that she was romantically interested in him, later he found out and asked his money back.. She asked sjow for money but he didnt give it to her.. THERE IS NO evidence what are you talking about all those screenshots of her are all fake..
How does "must be a dude pretending to be a Korean girl" follow from not paying back money you borrowed? Please, connect those dots for me. I seem to be missing something.
Im not saying shes a dude pretending to be a korean girl, Thats what bunch of people said also CHakki she might be real. What is real though is her trying to manipulate a whole bunch of poeople into thinking she was romantically interested in them and then asking money with really shady stories. In Jabs case she didnt even pay back and refused to answer him when he asked about his money back. And there is Sjow according to JAB. Now... these may all not be true, if we didnt see the chatlogs. But honestly all these "pros" are lying? Either way draw your own conclusion from an individual that manipulates by frliting and hinting shes interested and then asking for money. All of that plus the shady things surrounding her. I dont feel like you need any evidence to prove that it stinks.
They don't have to be lying for this to be a bullshit way to deal with the situation. If MagicAmy flirted with people who then gave her money and then she evaded paying it back, that's between them and her. Not between them and the whole world including her employer. It's a reason to not lend MagicAmy money, not a reason to destroy her career. Imagine if that was a standard people were actually held to in the real world: that you'd would be unemployable just because you'd borrowed money from people and then made a bunch of stupid excuses and avoided your creditors.
You seem to be getting it all wrong. Let me simplify it for you. She manipulated people. Aka saying stuff such as a poor situation to get money off of people. Thats beyond flirting. Flirting is only a part of what had taken place. She manipulated a lot of people into thinking she was remotely interested and then she tried to get money. She has done this with a whole bunch of people whom we KNOW for a FACT she did. The screenshots are all out there. Add up her former employers claims and all other pros. Its pretty evident that her character is one full of deception and manipulation. If you ask people for money because of a tough sitaution you're in, the least you 'll do is ask more people. And if you cant pay them back you will atleast, as a decent human being, explain and not ask more people no ? She did however.. A basic scamfest.. Manipulate a lot of vulnerable people into getting you money and as soon as they ask back bail out. Of course her personal life doesnt concern us but when a shady personality does this systematically to all the people she interacts with including her former employer who said she asked for money for things she never delivered and she was continuously lying about stuff.. it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out her moder operandi. Honestly, what are you discussing anyway ? That she might be a legitimate person? Sure, she might be, does that change anything? No. I dont think it does.
Edit: I also would like to point out that when Magicalamy discussed "possibly" paying back Celerity ( the guy who spent 5k on her ) That in the chatlogs you can clearly read she said she says will fly to US and pay him back in person but in a taunting fashion. Yet, she refuses to join an offline tournament with a team ( Tempostorm ) who is willing to back her up and support her. Odd ? My thoughts exactly.
On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote: ... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game.
Or you know... stream for the first time ever
So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious.
If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why?
I dunno, maybe making a couple hundred thousand dollars in text-to-speech donation jokes on her stream until Twitch makes her silence it, then making slightly less money when donations are just displayed on her stream? That's why Reynad streams despite hating the game and everyone that watches his stream.
I mean, seriously. She could rake in money hand over fist and then disappear. That's a pretty obvious incentive to stream and remain active. There's no reason to believe she's some delicate flower (like Reynad) that can't handle people making obvious and stupid jokes at her expense to make a few hundred grand.
What evidence? There is actually ZERO evidence. The "evidence" seems to be wild claims she hasn't played an offline tournament, that means she is bad at hearthstone and someone else is playing for her.
The other stuff is some personal issues with former boyfriend and employer. Its literally ZERO evidence about anything.
I didn't use the word evidence in the post at all, so I'm not sure if you were responding to the right post? I was just saying she has a pretty big reason to interact with the community whether she's "real" or "fake" whatever those mean: making a metric shit-ton of money. And not just "a salary" either. This is like a weekend of cutting ties onstream to rake in the cash.
Clearly, for some reason, that's not worth it to her, but saying she has no reason to even try to interact with the community is just silly.
On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote: ... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game.
Or you know... stream for the first time ever
So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious.
If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why?
I dunno, maybe making a couple hundred thousand dollars in text-to-speech donation jokes on her stream until Twitch makes her silence it, then making slightly less money when donations are just displayed on her stream? That's why Reynad streams despite hating the game and everyone that watches his stream.
I mean, seriously. She could rake in money hand over fist and then disappear. That's a pretty obvious incentive to stream and remain active. There's no reason to believe she's some delicate flower (like Reynad) that can't handle people making obvious and stupid jokes at her expense to make a few hundred grand.
What evidence? There is actually ZERO evidence. The "evidence" seems to be wild claims she hasn't played an offline tournament, that means she is bad at hearthstone and someone else is playing for her.
The other stuff is some personal issues with former boyfriend and employer. Its literally ZERO evidence about anything.
I didn't use the word evidence in the post at all, so I'm not sure if you were responding to the right post? I was just saying she has a pretty big reason to interact with the community whether she's "real" or "fake" whatever those mean: making a metric shit-ton of money. And not just "a salary" either. This is like a weekend of cutting ties onstream to rake in the cash.
Clearly, for some reason, that's not worth it to her, but saying she has no reason to even try to interact with the community is just silly.
I'm not saying she has no reason to interact with the community. I'm saying it's not a foregone, obvious conclusion that she would totally do whatever it took to continue with Hearthstone. There are people saying that opting out of the special offline event only confirms their suspicions; that turning down the offline event is not a choice an innocent person would make. I'm calling bullshit on that specific claim because it is, in fact, bullshit. Money, even a lot of money, is not necessarily incentive to endure the treatment she'd receive and I think a lot of people grossly underestimate both how badly she'd be treated as well as how much that kind of treatment can impact a person. They see it as just a bunch of idiotic jokes because that's all it is to them. I think a lot of people have a really difficult time even acknowledging that perspectives other than their own exist, let alone considering what things might look like from that angle.
On February 20 2015 19:54 Kabras wrote: so she got a chance to settle things once and for all and chose the backdoor out.. well, this doesn't prove anything, including her innocence. it could be that she just doesn't care anymore and doesn't want to bother with clearing her HS name but... the way i see it is if she has nothing to hide she might as well have done this one tournament to shut everyone up and then left with a clear rep if that's what she really wanted. now i can't help but think the drama is true.
If you think everyone would have shut up and let bygones be bygones just because she participated in this one tournament, you're delusional.
it would have been something at least. and since there's no actual proof against her and she would've done that tourney there would have been very little reason for people to keep the drama going. ofc there's always gonna be the guy who stirs shit up just for the sake of it which nobody can ever shut up, but doing that tourney and showing solid play would have been enough for most people i think.
tl;dr "prove your innocence" or "if she was innocent, what is she hiding?"
So, that's at least 2 competitive female players the user base has chased out of the competitive scene.
Looking at the evidence, it really doesn't look like she was innocent though. No hard proof, but a lot of circumstantially shady stuff.
Considering the brutal amount of work it takes to get to be a hearthstone celebrity, the fact that Magicamy chose not to go to the offline tournament is perhaps the most damning one. If she'd gone and performed even decently, it would've resulted in a lot of positive publicity for her, which is the best kind of currency for hearthstone personalities.
On February 20 2015 19:54 Kabras wrote: so she got a chance to settle things once and for all and chose the backdoor out.. well, this doesn't prove anything, including her innocence. it could be that she just doesn't care anymore and doesn't want to bother with clearing her HS name but... the way i see it is if she has nothing to hide she might as well have done this one tournament to shut everyone up and then left with a clear rep if that's what she really wanted. now i can't help but think the drama is true.
If you think everyone would have shut up and let bygones be bygones just because she participated in this one tournament, you're delusional.
it would have been something at least. and since there's no actual proof against her and she would've done that tourney there would have been very little reason for people to keep the drama going. ofc there's always gonna be the guy who stirs shit up just for the sake of it which nobody can ever shut up, but doing that tourney and showing solid play would have been enough for most people i think.
tl;dr "prove your innocence" or "if she was innocent, what is she hiding?"
So, that's at least 2 competitive female players the user base has chased out of the competitive scene.
Looking at the evidence, it really doesn't look like she was innocent though. No hard proof, but a lot of circumstantially shady stuff.
Considering the brutal amount of work it takes to get to be a hearthstone celebrity, the fact that Magicamy chose not to go to the offline tournament is perhaps the most damning one. If she'd gone and performed even decently, it would've resulted in a lot of positive publicity for her, which is the best kind of currency for hearthstone personalities.
This is correct. TempoStorm has a HUGE vested interest in making her "legit." If she went to an offline event, you'd better believe we'd get them putting up a full-blown article on why she did what she did, even if she lost. They'd point out where she played well, where she made mistakes (because honestly every player makes mistakes), where she made gambles that did or didn't pay off... they'd do so much work to make her legit. And if she did even reasonably well, she'd get fame as the girl who beat the system. I know I'd watch her play.
But she didn't. After TempoStorm put their weight behind her, said they believed in her, and gave her an opportunity to be a good employee (by trying to win an offline event, which would raise the status and thus value of TempoStorm), she decided to back out.
She might still be completely innocent. That's an option. It doesn't seem remotely likely, but it's an option. But I'm not going to mourn her departure, not when she refuses to do her job after the team put a lot of effort into keeping her afloat.
And, as a final point... let's say she had some other reason for never going to offline events from the start. That doesn't excuse her from not telling TempoStorm about it. Making up excuses about visas is not something that you should do if you want to stay part of an organization. I think everything they did was right, and she's getting shown up for a fraud.
I don't know why people assume the visa issue was a lie. I hadn't heard that. But even assuming she really did have a visa, the next offline event MagicAmy could go to isn't going to be ESL since she already relinquished her spot.
Given that, this has the potential to drag out for a long time and even if the main allegations about her not playing her games are false/disproven. There's still the other stuff with Clarity, et. al. That's not going away no matter what she does and maybe she didn't want to deal with it?
I dunno, I agree with you that T/S did the right thing and would have done everything they could have to make the skill / legit issues go away. But I think you're underestimating the effect of personal fallout when you say her running means she was guilty.
according to Elyot, founder of Prismata she is a liar "regarding her being a pathological liar, she even told us she had received free plane tickets to Blizzcon to be a translator and would help promote Prismata there, but she never showed up." http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2wcfzv/magicamy_megathread/copmygz
and according to Callum Leslie, she is a liar "Additionally, one high-ranking source within ESL told the Daily Dot that Hyerim Lee twice changed her reason for withdrawing from the ESL Legendary Series. She first claimed that she had no passport, then that she didn't have a visa, and then finally that her parents were not allowing her to attend. " http://www.dailydot.com/esports/hearthstone-magic-amy-hyerim-lee-identity/
it's obvious that this girl has serious mental issues and she is making excuses to avoid tournament.
The visa issue was a lie. Koreans don't need a visa to visit the United States. Regardless though this is over. Community called her out on being a sham, her team gave her a chance to redeem herself and once again she decided to not do the one thing that would put this all to rest. Best of luck to her in her future endeavors just glad to have the scum away from HS.
according to Elyot, founder of Prismata she is a liar "regarding her being a pathological liar, she even told us she had received free plane tickets to Blizzcon to be a translator and would help promote Prismata there, but she never showed up." http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2wcfzv/magicamy_megathread/copmygz
and according to Callum Leslie, she is a liar "Additionally, one high-ranking source within ESL told the Daily Dot that Hyerim Lee twice changed her reason for withdrawing from the ESL Legendary Series. She first claimed that she had no passport, then that she didn't have a visa, and then finally that her parents were not allowing her to attend. " http://www.dailydot.com/esports/hearthstone-magic-amy-hyerim-lee-identity/
it's obvious that this girl has serious mental issues and she is making excuses to avoid tournament.
I wonder what excuses will the white knights come up with now. This girl is either an evil genius or a sick person. However spending 10-16 hours a day is some dedication. Thanks for posting all this sacade.
I'm going to repeat myself and make it as clear as possible even for those with brain damage: There is ZERO EVIDENCE against her. All there is is wild internet claims that she hasn't played an offline tournament and this that means someone else is playing for her, because she is a girl she can't possibly be good at a very low skill game.
ZERO EVIDENCE.
The other stuff about boyfriends and employees and stuff is her personal business, who the F. cares?
On February 24 2015 14:00 BillGates wrote: The other stuff about boyfriends and employees and stuff is her personal business, who the F. cares?
It's highly suggestive of who her character is and what she is capable of. If she is capable and has been proven to scam people and known companies why is it so hard to grasp that she wouldn't scam a hearthstone team?
Don't South Koreans just need an ESTA to get in since they are part of the visa waiver programe? Bunch of us got one about 36h prior to travelling there.
Anyway, given chance to play offline, leaves HS forever instead kinda says enough.
On February 24 2015 14:00 BillGates wrote: The other stuff about boyfriends and employees and stuff is her personal business, who the F. cares?
It's highly suggestive of who her character is and what she is capable of. If she is capable and has been proven to scam people and known companies why is it so hard to grasp that she wouldn't scam a hearthstone team?
It's not hard for people to grasp, noone denies the possibility. Instead, some people don't take the possibility of something as evidence for something.
On February 24 2015 14:00 BillGates wrote: The other stuff about boyfriends and employees and stuff is her personal business, who the F. cares?
It's highly suggestive of who her character is and what she is capable of. If she is capable and has been proven to scam people and known companies why is it so hard to grasp that she wouldn't scam a hearthstone team?
Well it's obviously far from impossible. Still going from taking money under whatever circumstances from some sad suckers which will never draw any attention and is in essence free profit to something that has an incredibly high chance of going very wrong in public with involvement of other's who obviously have at least some capability as far as hearthstone is concerned for what I expect to be a not exactly incredibly amount of money from reynad is still quite a big step. The risk reward ratio just screams not worth it to me especially when I see shit like this http://img42.com/1lKdZ but well maybe someone who obviously likes to tell tales on a seemingly regular basis might feel different about that.
On February 24 2015 17:27 MoonfireSpam wrote: Don't South Koreans just need an ESTA to get in since they are part of the visa waiver programe? Bunch of us got one about 36h prior to travelling there.
Anyway, given chance to play offline, leaves HS forever instead kinda says enough.
As if that offline tournament offer was some wonderful opportunity. It was an opportunity to subject herself to abuse and absurd levels of scrutiny in a futile effort to prove her worth to a bunch of people who will take every misplay as further evidence that they were right.
On February 24 2015 17:27 MoonfireSpam wrote: Don't South Koreans just need an ESTA to get in since they are part of the visa waiver programe? Bunch of us got one about 36h prior to travelling there.
Anyway, given chance to play offline, leaves HS forever instead kinda says enough.
As if that offline tournament offer was some wonderful opportunity. It was an opportunity to subject herself to abuse and absurd levels of scrutiny in a futile effort to prove her worth to a bunch of people who will take every misplay as further evidence that they were right.
When your employer asks you to actually behave as a representative of the company it's abuse? Sounds more like responsibility. Sure there will be haters that can't be convinced, but it's not about them, it's about convincing the members of the community who actually care about professional integrity.
On February 24 2015 17:27 MoonfireSpam wrote: Don't South Koreans just need an ESTA to get in since they are part of the visa waiver programe? Bunch of us got one about 36h prior to travelling there.
Anyway, given chance to play offline, leaves HS forever instead kinda says enough.
As if that offline tournament offer was some wonderful opportunity. It was an opportunity to subject herself to abuse and absurd levels of scrutiny in a futile effort to prove her worth to a bunch of people who will take every misplay as further evidence that they were right.
When your employer asks you to actually behave as a representative of the company it's abuse? Sounds more like responsibility. Sure there will be haters that can't be convinced, but it's not about them, it's about convincing the members of the community who actually care about professional integrity.
Read for comprehension please. I didn't say the tournament itself constituted abuse by TempoStorm. If MagicAmy is innocent, she doesn't owe any member of this community jack shit, no matter how much they bleat about professional integrity. People who give a shit about integrity don't go airing suspicions about other people that will ruin their career without being sure. Go explain professional integrity to Blackout, Chakki, Specialist, Celerity, et. al. This is as much about professional integrity as it is about the price of tea in China.
On February 24 2015 17:27 MoonfireSpam wrote: Don't South Koreans just need an ESTA to get in since they are part of the visa waiver programe? Bunch of us got one about 36h prior to travelling there.
Anyway, given chance to play offline, leaves HS forever instead kinda says enough.
As if that offline tournament offer was some wonderful opportunity. It was an opportunity to subject herself to abuse and absurd levels of scrutiny in a futile effort to prove her worth to a bunch of people who will take every misplay as further evidence that they were right.
When your employer asks you to actually behave as a representative of the company it's abuse? Sounds more like responsibility. Sure there will be haters that can't be convinced, but it's not about them, it's about convincing the members of the community who actually care about professional integrity.
Read for comprehension please. I didn't say the tournament itself constituted abuse by TempoStorm. If MagicAmy is innocent, she doesn't owe any member of this community jack shit, no matter how much they bleat about professional integrity. People who give a shit about integrity don't go airing suspicions about other people that will ruin their career without being sure. Go explain professional integrity to Blackout, Chakki, Specialist, Celerity, et. al. This is as much about professional integrity as it is about the price of tea in China.
But she's not innocent. She proved that herself. What's sad is you made this into a sexism issue and the person you were defending is guilty as hell. And you are still defending her. Blind feminism is just sad.
On February 24 2015 17:27 MoonfireSpam wrote: Don't South Koreans just need an ESTA to get in since they are part of the visa waiver programe? Bunch of us got one about 36h prior to travelling there.
Anyway, given chance to play offline, leaves HS forever instead kinda says enough.
As if that offline tournament offer was some wonderful opportunity. It was an opportunity to subject herself to abuse and absurd levels of scrutiny in a futile effort to prove her worth to a bunch of people who will take every misplay as further evidence that they were right.
When your employer asks you to actually behave as a representative of the company it's abuse? Sounds more like responsibility. Sure there will be haters that can't be convinced, but it's not about them, it's about convincing the members of the community who actually care about professional integrity.
Read for comprehension please. I didn't say the tournament itself constituted abuse by TempoStorm. If MagicAmy is innocent, she doesn't owe any member of this community jack shit, no matter how much they bleat about professional integrity. People who give a shit about integrity don't go airing suspicions about other people that will ruin their career without being sure. Go explain professional integrity to Blackout, Chakki, Specialist, Celerity, et. al. This is as much about professional integrity as it is about the price of tea in China.
TempoStorm's mission is to provide content for the community. As a representative of TempoStorm, Amy owed it to the team to help provide that content. Even if she's "innocent". Even if none of the drama had ever happened.
Based on the discussion in this thread, a good portion of the community wanted to see that tournament happen, for whatever reason. Maybe for some, those reasons were irrational or rooted in prejudice. In any case, it certainly would have generated a lot of publicity for TempoStorm, which is very much in line with their mission. It also would have projected an image of professional integrity: pro Hearthstone players should be competing in Hearthstone. Instead of taking the opportunity to reinforce her career and generate value for her team, she walked away. She was within her rights to do so.
Her career could have been ruined by the allegations, but TempoStorm's investigation denied them all, and turned it into an opportunity to display professional integrity, which she turned down. And as I said before, it's not about the stubborn haters, it's about convincing the people who do care. I think you have a very negative "all or nothing" view of the community, which just isn't realistic.
edit: I wouldn't bother responding to people talking about the accusations at this point, nothing new is going to come of it imo.
Her career could have been ruined by the allegations, but TempoStorm's investigation denied them all, and turned it into an opportunity to display professional integrity, which she turned down. And as I said before, it's not about the stubborn haters, it's about convincing the people who do care. I think you have a very negative "all or nothing" view of the community, which just isn't realistic.
edit: I wouldn't bother responding to people talking about the accusations at this point, nothing new is going to come of it imo.
It is not about professional integrity. Celerity running off to Amy's employer about a personal money dispute is not professional integrity. Blasting this story on reddit is not professional integrity. Not criticizing those who blasted the story on reddit is not professional integrity. Professional integrity only suddenly becomes a thing people care about when they're going over everything MagicAmy has ever said or done with a fine-tooth comb. Funny, that.
And it is about the haters because they're the ones making all the noise. There's only a handful of people here calling that bullshit what it is. And I'm sure it's worse at reddit and elsewhere. And even people who purport to occupy some middle ground like yourself are more interested in criticizing Amy for not going to the offline event and convincing those of us calling out the bullshit to shut up about it than in showing the haters that they don't represent the majority view. You don't like that I have a negative view of this community? Then fucking prove me wrong.
On February 25 2015 03:03 piegasm wrote: And it is about the haters because they're the ones making all the noise. There's only a handful of people here calling that bullshit what it is. And I'm sure it's worse at reddit and elsewhere. And even people who purport to occupy some middle ground like yourself are more interested in criticizing Amy for not going to the offline event and convincing those of us calling out the bullshit to shut up about it than in showing the haters that they don't represent the majority view. You don't like that I have a negative view of this community? Then fucking prove me wrong.
Some people are simply not convinced about the allegations and therefore simply state, that Amy could disprove them. She didn´t want to, which is her right. Yet, that decision does not help her case, for some it even makes it worse. That is some simple truth, whether you like or or not. You jumping on everybody that sees that and scratching their eyes out is not helping convincing anyone either. The stance to see everything just black or white is also annoying to others (again: not helpful !!).
And it is kinda sad that you have a negative view on the community and then you air your oppinion on a community website. That makes you part of the community, and in a funny logic, that should make you feel negative about yourself.
You can't disprove something that was never proven in the first place!
Hello, trying to prove a negative, how have you been? People from all ages seem to fall for your simplicity, what is your secret? Why are you so alluring?
And Elizar, I love the part where you imply that someone who criticizes a community should not be part of that community (or should at the very least shut up and feel guilty for voicing his or her own opinion). Your comments are overflowing with insight.
On February 25 2015 03:48 litlnoobs wrote: And Elizar, I love the part where you imply that someone who criticizes a community should not be part of that community (or should at the very least shut up and feel guilty for voicing his or her own opinion). Your comments are overflowing with insight.
Oh I didnt say that anyone shouldnt be part of a community. Neither did I say someone should shut up. Thanks for your "insight". Let me paraphrase what I tried (and apparantly failed) to say: You dont like the community and at the same time you are part of the community. Maybe sth is wrong then. But I let you figure that out for yourself.
On February 24 2015 17:27 MoonfireSpam wrote: Don't South Koreans just need an ESTA to get in since they are part of the visa waiver programe? Bunch of us got one about 36h prior to travelling there.
Anyway, given chance to play offline, leaves HS forever instead kinda says enough.
Except she can't get back her ESL spot after relinquishing it (and a replacement already being announced). Not to mention others have mentioned that the visa waiver program doesn't apply because she's traveling for business not vacation. She could lie of course, which I'm sure people here will advocate. But that's a good way to get barred from returning to the US - see Violet's yearlong absence from WCS America.
So there's no pending around the corner offline event that she refused to go to. Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but to me that means her leaving T/S isn't all about dodging the allegations.
On February 24 2015 14:00 BillGates wrote: The other stuff about boyfriends and employees and stuff is her personal business, who the F. cares?
It's highly suggestive of who her character is and what she is capable of. If she is capable and has been proven to scam people and known companies why is it so hard to grasp that she wouldn't scam a hearthstone team?
There does come a point where this is true. But relationship stuff is relationship stuff and I've never heard someone called a scammer for being as crappy an employee as she was for Lunarch. Especially, given how stereotypically flakey independent contractors are (especially the remote variety).
I posted my thoughts about that in the other thread so I won't repeat them here (http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/hearthstone/478387-tempo-storms-magicamy-to-miss-esl-legendary-series-finals?page=8#143 if you're curious).
On February 24 2015 14:00 BillGates wrote: The other stuff about boyfriends and employees and stuff is her personal business, who the F. cares?
It's highly suggestive of who her character is and what she is capable of. If she is capable and has been proven to scam people and known companies why is it so hard to grasp that she wouldn't scam a hearthstone team?
What don't you understand about the word EVIDENCE? Do I have to spell it for you, do I have to draw a picture for you in order to understand?
There is ZERO EVIDENCE. I don't care what someone thinks, if its implied, not implied, probable, not probable, maybe, shoulda, coulda, woulda, ....
There is zero evidence and that is the bottom line!
On February 24 2015 14:00 BillGates wrote: The other stuff about boyfriends and employees and stuff is her personal business, who the F. cares?
It's highly suggestive of who her character is and what she is capable of. If she is capable and has been proven to scam people and known companies why is it so hard to grasp that she wouldn't scam a hearthstone team?
What don't you understand about the word EVIDENCE? Do I have to spell it for you, do I have to draw a picture for you in order to understand?
There is ZERO EVIDENCE. I don't care what someone thinks, if its implied, not implied, probable, not probable, maybe, shoulda, coulda, woulda, ....
There is zero evidence and that is the bottom line!
I hesitate to respond to you because I find your posts to be poor-quality and troll-like. I find it ironic that you accuse others of being brain dead because to me it seems to be you that is misunderstanding evidence.
This is not a criminal trial and the burden of proof is not beyond a reasonable doubt. There are different types of evidence - the 'smoking gun', 'red-handed', 'hand in the cookie jar' is not the only kind but seems to be the only one you recognize. Circumstantial evidence can have varying levels of probability. The entire point of this situation is that circumstantial evidence has reached a critical point, precipitating the reaction seen here. Circumstantial evidence certainly exists here so you are flat out wrong here when you say there is "ZERO EVIDENCE".
Would you agree that there is a certain amount of circumstantial evidence that could add up to a convincing picture?
That she uses people for money? I guess that's something to get upset over*
That she didn't play ESL Weekly, botted her account, hired people to boost her rank, didn't write meta snapshots for T/S? Well, this is what I care about and it has nothing to do with any of this.
To say her personal messiness proves this last point is like those old anti-drug campaigns saying pot smokers end up shooting heroin and robbing banks for drug money.
* not trying to be flippant, but this is usually the stuff that people use to justify being an anti-fan not banning someone
On February 24 2015 17:27 MoonfireSpam wrote: Don't South Koreans just need an ESTA to get in since they are part of the visa waiver programe? Bunch of us got one about 36h prior to travelling there.
Anyway, given chance to play offline, leaves HS forever instead kinda says enough.
Except she can't get back her ESL spot after relinquishing it (and a replacement already being announced). Not to mention others have mentioned that the visa waiver program doesn't apply because she's traveling for business not vacation. She could lie of course, which I'm sure people here will advocate. But that's a good way to get barred from returning to the US - see Violet's yearlong absence from WCS America.
Apply for a New Authorization to Travel to the United States for Individuals or Groups Select this option if:
You are a citizen or eligible national of a Visa Waiver Program country. You are currently not in possession of a visitor's visa. Your travel is for 90 days or less. You plan to travel to the United States for business or pleasure. You want to apply for a new authorization for one person or a group of applications for two or more persons.
edit: of course, if playing Hearthstone and winning money falls under 'work', you can't do that with an ESTA.
Right, the work provision is what people were pointing out. I didn't realize the waiver program applied to business trips, since I've never needed to look at it (being an American and all).
I don't know all the details, but I would think representing TempoStorm at an event would count as work though.
On February 25 2015 06:55 Wuster wrote: I suppose the issue is this:
what does the circumstantial evidence point to?
That she's a bad person? Who cares
That she uses people for money? I guess that's something to get upset over*
That she didn't play ESL Weekly, botted her account, hired people to boost her rank, didn't write meta snapshots for T/S? Well, this is what I care about and it has nothing to do with any of this.
To say her personal messiness proves this last point is like those old anti-drug campaigns saying pot smokers end up shooting heroin and robbing banks for drug money.
* not trying to be flippant, but this is usually the stuff that people use to justify being an anti-fan not banning someone
So yes, circumstantial evidence is non conclusive and her actions proves what kind of character she has. So far we know from SS's she has been manipulating people into getting money, not paying back and even botting although the latter has no concrete evidence its something JAB Said. .Supposably she also approached Sjow for Money, all said by the same pro gamers.
Now sure, you can say 1 and 2 are vindicative and not happy with how it went.. but seeing the SS's YOU Know theyr not lying.. and if that much is true, who says she wasnt cheating or someone wasnt playing ? Saying NO evidence is like looking away when you're finding out about circumstantial evidence.
What baffles me is Reynad currently saying that the community is misogynistic and is witch hunting with overhwelming evidence that he has been manipulating so many pro gamers. He said the community stinks and everyone is trying to badmouth her. But He forgets that HE was the one spreading rumors and alluding to her being a sl.t and people taking over that narrative.. its disgustingly hypocrit also there has never ever bneen a circumstancial evidence of Lea ever tryin to leech money off of pros or bottiing or w/e.
See this is the difference.. He adamantly defends someone who we know of has avery shady character but shames another whom he personally didnt like. Reynad h even said " even if it turns out Magicamy is what you guys said claim, still its not proper to what the community is doing " His bias and 1 sided narrative is despicable.
Some people are simply not convinced about the allegations and therefore simply state, that Amy could disprove them.
Except for the part where she CAN'T because they haven't been proven in the first place. And because, practically speaking, she will still be treated as if it's all true by pretty much everyone who can be bothered to say something about it.
She didn´t want to, which is her right. Yet, that decision does not help her case, for some it even makes it worse. That is some simple truth, whether you like or or not.
It's true that some people couldn't reason their way out of a wet paper bag, you're right about that. That doesn't mean I'm wrong to correct them.
You jumping on everybody that sees that and scratching their eyes out is not helping convincing anyone either. The stance to see everything just black or white is also annoying to others (again: not helpful !!).
You seem to be having some difficulty understanding what words mean. You keep accusing me of being all black and white and yet you're the one saying that I'm not convincing anyone. I'm engaging in a discussion because I think people are mostly reasonable and I think there are probably people lurking who may be on the fence and just need to see the craptastic arguments addressed in order to come down on the right side. You're telling me to stop because people aren't going to be convinced no matter what I say. You seem to be the one who thinks everyone in the community is clearly on one side of the fence or the other and is unable or unwilling to change their mind.
And it is kinda sad that you have a negative view on the community and then you air your oppinion on a community website. That makes you part of the community, and in a funny logic, that should make you feel negative about yourself.
It is a kind of funny logic, as in completely irrational. Where the hell else would I air my opinion about something going on in Hearthstone than a Hearthstone community web site? Why should criticizing the Hearthstone community make me feel negative about myself? Because I'm a part of a community you think I think so little of? I don't think little of it. I think it's capable of being A LOT better, particularly the LiquidHearth community. So I criticize it because I care about it, it's something I want to be a part of, and because I think it's capable of being better. I'm not the one telling people to just not bother because nothing will ever change. That would be you. You're the one who seems to be content to let the howling man-children be the only voices anyone hears from the Hearthstone community.
Now sure, you can say 1 and 2 are vindicative and not happy with how it went.. but seeing the SS's YOU Know theyr not lying.. and if that much is true, who says she wasnt cheating or someone wasnt playing ? Saying NO evidence is like looking away when you're finding out about circumstantial evidence.
This shit right here? Is stupid. Someone behaving less than honestly with people in their personal life is not evidence that they committed some completely different dishonest behavior with vastly greater negative consequences under completely different circumstances. If someone is accused of murdering Joe, the fact that they murdered Steve two years ago is generally not admissible because they're two completely separate events. Depending on context, it may speak to some small degree to that person's ability to kill another but it is not evidence that they did what they're currently accused of.
Further, the thing about circumstantial evidence is that it requires inference to draw a conclusion. It, by definition, requires that there is more than one possible conclusion. You need many pieces of it, all corroborating each other and all pointing more strongly at one conclusion than another before you can reasonably say you've proven anything. Not talking to Forsen on Skype could be because she doesn't want to give away that she doesn't know anything about Hearthstone but a far more likely explanation is that she just doesn't want to talk to Forsen. Celerity shows bank records which show him sending lots of money to Hyerim Lee. Great. Those numbers don't show whose idea sending that money was or what expectations either had about whether it would be paid back or what it would be used for.
And this is where the charges of sexism are coming in. Because people don't treat male players this way. When Hosty was accused of cheating, people looked only at the screen shots showing the tournament stream reflected in the picture on his wall. And even in the face of conclusive evidence that he'd done something deserving of getting DQd from a tournament (if he hadn't lost by the time it was discovered), people still defended him and criticized Amaz for cutting him loose. A lot of people weren't even curious about what else might have happened to make Amaz not want him on the team. Amaz was the one who was not believed when he said it wasn't only about the Pinnacle situation. And they certainly didn't go trawling back through Hosty's entire life to find excuses to call everything he'd ever said or done into question.
And don't try to tell me people aren't doing this with Amy. I'm seeing people referencing her never wanting to talk to Forsen on Skype. I'm sure Forsen is an awesome guy that literally everyone in the world always wants to talk to but it really doesn't bear on these accusations in the slightest. Kitkatz told a story where she said she'd come pick up him and Savjz and then never showed and dodged their questions about it. Which is certainly odd because Kitkatz said it was her idea to come pick them up but that also doesn't lead directly to "is really two people cheating at Hearthstone." Maybe she just fucking got nervous and then felt silly and didn't know what to say. That seems several metric shit-tons more plausible to me than her doing it because she doesn't want them to find out she's really a dude in Canada.
The most it's reasonable to conclude from anything I've seen is that lending Amy money and asking her for a ride are probably best avoided. And yet people think they KNOW that she's a serial scammer, botter, win-trader, identity faker, etc.
Now sure, you can say 1 and 2 are vindicative and not happy with how it went.. but seeing the SS's YOU Know theyr not lying.. and if that much is true, who says she wasnt cheating or someone wasnt playing ? Saying NO evidence is like looking away when you're finding out about circumstantial evidence.
This shit right here? Is stupid. Someone behaving less than honestly with people in their personal life is not evidence that they committed some completely different dishonest behavior with vastly greater negative consequences under completely different circumstances. If someone is accused of murdering Joe, the fact that they murdered Steve two years ago is generally not admissible because they're two completely separate events. Depending on context, it may speak to some small degree to that person's ability to kill another but it is not evidence that they did what they're currently accused of.
Further, the thing about circumstantial evidence is that it requires inference to draw a conclusion. It, by definition, requires that there is more than one possible conclusion. You need many pieces of it, all corroborating each other and all pointing more strongly at one conclusion than another before you can reasonably say you've proven anything. Not talking to Forsen on Skype could be because she doesn't want to give away that she doesn't know anything about Hearthstone but a far more likely explanation is that she just doesn't want to talk to Forsen. Celerity shows bank records which show him sending lots of money to Hyerim Lee. Great. Those numbers don't show whose idea sending that money was or what expectations either had about whether it would be paid back or what it would be used for.
And this is where the charges of sexism are coming in. Because people don't treat male players this way. When Hosty was accused of cheating, people looked only at the screen shots showing the tournament stream reflected in the picture on his wall. And even in the face of conclusive evidence that he'd done something deserving of getting DQd from a tournament (if he hadn't lost by the time it was discovered), people still defended him and criticized Amaz for cutting him loose. A lot of people weren't even curious about what else might have happened to make Amaz not want him on the team. Amaz was the one who was not believed when he said it wasn't only about the Pinnacle situation. And they certainly didn't go trawling back through Hosty's entire life to find excuses to call everything he'd ever said or done into question.
And don't try to tell me people aren't doing this with Amy. I'm seeing people referencing her never wanting to talk to Forsen on Skype. I'm sure Forsen is an awesome guy that literally everyone in the world always wants to talk to but it really doesn't bear on these accusations in the slightest. Kitkatz told a story where she said she'd come pick up him and Savjz and then never showed and dodged their questions about it. Which is certainly odd because Kitkatz said it was her idea to come pick them up but that also doesn't lead directly to "is really two people cheating at Hearthstone." Maybe she just fucking got nervous and then felt silly and didn't know what to say. That seems several metric shit-tons more plausible to me than her doing it because she doesn't want them to find out she's really a dude in Canada.
The most it's reasonable to conclude from anything I've seen is that lending Amy money and asking her for a ride are probably best avoided. And yet people think they KNOW that she's a serial scammer, botter, win-trader, identity faker, etc.
Attention given to MagicAmy, while possibly being unwarranted, isn't something special. Other similar events, such as the ones that surrounded RDU and Hosty, had similar level of 'reddit-ness' if you will: Statements made on reddit/twitter, past tournament vods looked at, people doubting "official" statements, character assassinations, etc. These level of scrutiny isn't something new.
Also why pick sex as a reason behind any possible special treatment of her. Take your pick, there are plenty unsubstantiated victim cards to choose from. Maybe it's because she's an Asian and people are just being plain racist, or maybe people just hate Koreans do well in hearthstone, or maybe homophobic people think she looks like a lesbian, or maybe she played too much hunter decks and that was too annoying. Or just go through them all and see if anything sticks.
Attention given to MagicAmy, while possibly being unwarranted, isn't something special. Other similar events, such as the ones that surrounded RDU and Hosty, had similar level of 'reddit-ness' if you will: Statements made on reddit/twitter, past tournament vods looked at, people doubting "official" statements, character assassinations, etc. These level of scrutiny isn't something new.
Nonsense. Both the Hosty and RDU situations started because something questionable demonstrably actually happened. Hosty demonstrably had the stream of his own match up. Someone demonstrably told RDU what was in Amaz's hand.
Also why pick sex as a reason behind any possible special treatment of her. Take your pick, there are plenty unsubstantiated victim cards to choose from. Maybe it's because she's an Asian and people are just being plain racist, or maybe people just hate Koreans do well in hearthstone, or maybe homophobic people think she looks like a lesbian, or maybe she played too much hunter decks and that was too annoying. Or just go through them all and see if anything sticks.
You mean other than the fact that the bulk of what people are citing as evidence against her is the rather questionable word of a couple of supposed ex-boyfriends? If I had a dime for every time I've seen someone claim that TempoStorm only signed her because she's female, I could retire comfortably right now. But sure, no sexism going on here at all. *eyeroll*
Also re: people questioning official statements about Hosty...the official statements about Hosty were that Amaz had good reason to release him beyond the Pinnacle thing. The thing people doubted was that a guy who had demonstrably done something to warrant a DQ from a tournament deserved to be released from his team. Unlike this situation where the official statement is that there's no evidence that the person in question did anything wrong and had the full support of their team but somehow she still deserves to be e-pilloried because reasons. Context matters, yo.
On February 25 2015 14:58 piegasm wrote: You seem to be having some difficulty understanding what words mean. You keep accusing me of being all black and white and yet you're the one saying that I'm not convincing anyone. I'm engaging in a discussion because I think people are mostly reasonable and I think there are probably people lurking who may be on the fence and just need to see the craptastic arguments addressed in order to come down on the right side. You're telling me to stop because people aren't going to be convinced no matter what I say. You seem to be the one who thinks everyone in the community is clearly on one side of the fence or the other and is unable or unwilling to change their mind.
It is a kind of funny logic, as in completely irrational. Where the hell else would I air my opinion about something going on in Hearthstone than a Hearthstone community web site? Why should criticizing the Hearthstone community make me feel negative about myself? Because I'm a part of a community you think I think so little of? I don't think little of it. I think it's capable of being A LOT better, particularly the LiquidHearth community. So I criticize it because I care about it, it's something I want to be a part of, and because I think it's capable of being better. I'm not the one telling people to just not bother because nothing will ever change. That would be you. You're the one who seems to be content to let the howling man-children be the only voices anyone hears from the Hearthstone community.
OK, the "right side". ´Nuff said I guess. Seems like I´m the one who thinks only black and white, left and right side of the fence. (Haha, yeah right ...) Thats sad, because my (originally only) point in this thread was to say, that we don´t know facts for sure (more or less what you said), but (what others and I said) we see some things that might raise suspicions. I´m not saying, that these things are true (how should I? It is not that I can prove or disprove anything here) and that´s it. And yes, I think that as some kind of middle ground, because I neither believe those accusations must be true because reasons, nor do I think that all these must be untrue because reasons. It is that simple to me. Seems like I´m not the only one having problems with understanding words. I don´t have to choose sides here.
And if you want to improve the community: Have fun and nerves of steel. You will need it. I really wish you the best of luck, but sadly I don´t think you will succeed. Maybe a little, maybe thats enough. And also you are right in the following: I don´t think that internet mentality will change. For many people all these things you (and I or others here) wrote are just an oppinion. It is not like that they have to side with you (or me or whoever). After all you and me are mostly unknowns, so there is no reason to value our oppinions that much. If you want to reach people you have to be someone known in the community like Amaz (or Nazgul, or whoever else). Someone known who is respected, liked or else for whatever reason.
Well, anyways: Good luck in your plans to improve the community! Little less aggressiveness would help you there
Now sure, you can say 1 and 2 are vindicative and not happy with how it went.. but seeing the SS's YOU Know theyr not lying.. and if that much is true, who says she wasnt cheating or someone wasnt playing ? Saying NO evidence is like looking away when you're finding out about circumstantial evidence.
This shit right here? Is stupid. Someone behaving less than honestly with people in their personal life is not evidence that they committed some completely different dishonest behavior with vastly greater negative consequences under completely different circumstances. If someone is accused of murdering Joe, the fact that they murdered Steve two years ago is generally not admissible because they're two completely separate events. Depending on context, it may speak to some small degree to that person's ability to kill another but it is not evidence that they did what they're currently accused of.
Further, the thing about circumstantial evidence is that it requires inference to draw a conclusion. It, by definition, requires that there is more than one possible conclusion. You need many pieces of it, all corroborating each other and all pointing more strongly at one conclusion than another before you can reasonably say you've proven anything. Not talking to Forsen on Skype could be because she doesn't want to give away that she doesn't know anything about Hearthstone but a far more likely explanation is that she just doesn't want to talk to Forsen. Celerity shows bank records which show him sending lots of money to Hyerim Lee. Great. Those numbers don't show whose idea sending that money was or what expectations either had about whether it would be paid back or what it would be used for.
And this is where the charges of sexism are coming in. Because people don't treat male players this way. When Hosty was accused of cheating, people looked only at the screen shots showing the tournament stream reflected in the picture on his wall. And even in the face of conclusive evidence that he'd done something deserving of getting DQd from a tournament (if he hadn't lost by the time it was discovered), people still defended him and criticized Amaz for cutting him loose. A lot of people weren't even curious about what else might have happened to make Amaz not want him on the team. Amaz was the one who was not believed when he said it wasn't only about the Pinnacle situation. And they certainly didn't go trawling back through Hosty's entire life to find excuses to call everything he'd ever said or done into question.
And don't try to tell me people aren't doing this with Amy. I'm seeing people referencing her never wanting to talk to Forsen on Skype. I'm sure Forsen is an awesome guy that literally everyone in the world always wants to talk to but it really doesn't bear on these accusations in the slightest. Kitkatz told a story where she said she'd come pick up him and Savjz and then never showed and dodged their questions about it. Which is certainly odd because Kitkatz said it was her idea to come pick them up but that also doesn't lead directly to "is really two people cheating at Hearthstone." Maybe she just fucking got nervous and then felt silly and didn't know what to say. That seems several metric shit-tons more plausible to me than her doing it because she doesn't want them to find out she's really a dude in Canada.
The most it's reasonable to conclude from anything I've seen is that lending Amy money and asking her for a ride are probably best avoided. And yet people think they KNOW that she's a serial scammer, botter, win-trader, identity faker, etc.
Holy shit, you are so annoying that it made me post another reaction. You are comparing two absolutely individual and different cases and here is a simple explanation:
1. HOSTY - random male pro HS player. There are tens of players like him. There is nothing that would make him special. This guy was accused of cheating by watching a stream of the tournament he is participating in. There was nothing else, just cheating in this specific tournament. This case was examined by his team and they came to a conclusion to release him (supposedly not based on the mentioned tournament situation). Still there are people that believe he was innocent and people that say he is guilty. This is not a big deal. One of the many is gone now. No need for further investigation or whatsoever. Nobody cares any more.
2. MAGICAMY - the best female HS player in the world. I repeat the best in the world. After some time with her on the scene, there is a wild allegation that she does not play her games and that she might not even be real. Gradually people start coming up with more and more information about her and her personality. This is absolutely logic as the whole scene is eager to find out the truth, therefore anyone who knows something adds to the collective knowledge. Afterall it is the best female HS player in the world. HS is mostly play by men, so that makes it even more interesting. It is perfectly normal and natural behaviour for men to be more interested if it involves woman.
After a while there are multiple accustations of her acting shady, greedy, cheating, you name it. Every rationally thinking person would think now: "Well, there is definitaly something not right in here. It might even be true that she does cheat and not play her games and she is not THE BEST FEMALE HEARTHSTONE PLAYER IN THE WORLD". Normal rationally thinking person is now looking for a proof. The only proof of her playing her games is to see her playing with your own eyes. She was given the chance to give us all the proof we are looking for, but she refused to do it and rather gave up on Hearthstone. I explained in my other post why this action made me believe that she is guilty even more than before.
This whole thing is not about the community being misogynistic, but it is about the commuinty being rational and having common sense. Sure there might be some vocal individuals that might be misogynist, but calling the whole commuinty on that is way overboard. To be honest i am sick of your feministic posts that accuse people like me being misogynist, just because i don't believe this MagicAmy individual after multiple reasons i was given. You are shallow and hugely biased by your feministic point of view compared to me being rational and neutral. I have nothing against women and i would strongly welcome more female gamers/progamers in the gaming community. The MagicAmy incident even made me sad afterall as we lost potentially The best female player in the wolrd.
On February 26 2015 00:03 Elizar wrote: I don´t have to choose sides here.
You say there's not enough evidence for you to know either way. Fine. But yet you've made a choice about whose behavior to criticize and it isn't that of people who made it their business to ruin someone's career over this evidence you admit there's not enough of to do anything with. You've chosen a side, despite your claims to the contrary.
a) I didn't make you do shit. b) You literally just described the community reacting differently to MagicAmy entirely because she's female ("It is perfectly normal and natural behaviour for men to be more interested if it involves woman.") and then claimed that's not sexism. Well done. QED I guess. c) You seem to be working with rather unusual definitions of "rational" and "neutral".
On February 26 2015 00:03 Elizar wrote: I don´t have to choose sides here.
You say there's not enough evidence for you to know either way. Fine. But yet you've made a choice about whose behavior to criticize and it isn't that of people who made it their business to ruin someone's career over this evidence you admit there's not enough of to do anything with. You've chosen a side, despite your claims to the contrary.
Nope, I have not. Or at least I have chosen neither side of your fence. Just because there is no "hard proof" doesn´t automatically make it impossible that there is sth. true about those claims. I just criticize you for thinking you hold the undisputable truth, or at least behaving like you have it. I even partially agree with you, that based on those "facts" we can´t say she is "guilty", but neither can we say that the claims must be completely false, because there is no "hard proof" on that either.
But who am I kidding here. I said that much like three times already. You simply don´t want to understand me. Maybe I have more luck explaining my oppinion to a rock ...
On February 26 2015 01:41 Elizar wrote: Just because there is no "hard proof" doesn´t automatically make it impossible that there is sth. true about those claims.
On February 26 2015 01:41 Elizar wrote: Just because there is no "hard proof" doesn´t automatically make it impossible that there is sth. true about those claims.
Good thing nobody said that, then.
So suddenly you accept my viewpoint? How did that happen?
On February 26 2015 01:04 piegasm wrote: @ Ricjames
a) I didn't make you do shit. b) You literally just described the community reacting differently to MagicAmy entirely because she's female ("It is perfectly normal and natural behaviour for men to be more interested if it involves woman.") and then claimed that's not sexism. Well done. QED I guess. c) You seem to be working with rather unusual definitions of "rational" and "neutral".
I wouldn't call it a sexism. I would rather say it is a perfectly normal human behaviour. For example if you put one woman inside a group of man, they are interested as much more as if you would put 1 man inside a group of women.
Also there is a huge difference in being interested/curious about someone and treating someone. I stated as a fact that in this case the community (mostly men) are more interested and again i find it perfectly normal. It would be the same if the community was mostly women and MagicAmy was a man. Nowhere did i say that she was treated unequally due to this fact as you claim.
1) Unequal interest in someone, because that someone has the opposite sex - normal, not sexism 2) Unequal treatment of someone, because that someone is the opposite sex - sexism
I said number one is TRUE in this case, but number 2 is not the case. You claim both number 1 and 2 are the case here.
You should stop blaming the community of ruining her carreer as it is simply not true. I consider myself as part of the community, therefore you are blaming me of ruining her carreer. That is what made me react to you spouting feministic non-sense left and right in this thread.
On February 26 2015 01:41 Elizar wrote: Just because there is no "hard proof" doesn´t automatically make it impossible that there is sth. true about those claims.
Good thing nobody said that, then.
So suddenly you accept my viewpoint? How did that happen?
Edit: Substituted "understand" which "accept".
Any time you're ready to engage with things I've actually said, let me know.
On February 26 2015 01:41 Elizar wrote: Just because there is no "hard proof" doesn´t automatically make it impossible that there is sth. true about those claims.
Good thing nobody said that, then.
So suddenly you accept my viewpoint? How did that happen?
Edit: Substituted "understand" which "accept".
Any time you're ready to engage with things I've actually said, let me know.
Nah, I finally conclude I have wasted enough time on that already. Good luck and have fun with your crusade.
On February 26 2015 00:55 Ricjames wrote: Holy shit, you are so annoying that it made me post another reaction. You are comparing two absolutely individual and different cases and here is a simple explanation:
1. HOSTY - random male pro HS player. There are tens of players like him. There is nothing that would make him special. This guy was accused of cheating by watching a stream of the tournament he is participating in. There was nothing else, just cheating in this specific tournament. This case was examined by his team and they came to a conclusion to release him (supposedly not based on the mentioned tournament situation). Still there are people that believe he was innocent and people that say he is guilty. This is not a big deal. One of the many is gone now. No need for further investigation or whatsoever. Nobody cares any more.
You realize that Hostly still plays and competes in tournaments right?
He's not gone at all. But you're right that no one cares that someone who actually cheated in a major tournament (run by his own team in fact) is still around the scene.
To me that's kind of sad.
On the other hand, there's no proof that MagicAmy actually botted / cheated in games. Just that she played around with guys online. Asking for money is not the same as stealing money so let's drop the scammer part (I'm sure each case went down differently, but can we agree she didn't extort guys into sending her money or hack their paypal?). Like I said in my earlier post, being deficient in your personal life hardly means you're going to cheat in your competitive life.
Just look at the SC2 scene quite a lot of those guys fooled around in their personal life and sometimes it even cost them in game (a certain progamer getting dq-ed for missing his match after 'entertaining' a fan the night before comes to mind). But that hardly means they're cheats or should be condemned for being dishonest competitors.
On February 26 2015 00:55 Ricjames wrote: Holy shit, you are so annoying that it made me post another reaction. You are comparing two absolutely individual and different cases and here is a simple explanation:
1. HOSTY - random male pro HS player. There are tens of players like him. There is nothing that would make him special. This guy was accused of cheating by watching a stream of the tournament he is participating in. There was nothing else, just cheating in this specific tournament. This case was examined by his team and they came to a conclusion to release him (supposedly not based on the mentioned tournament situation). Still there are people that believe he was innocent and people that say he is guilty. This is not a big deal. One of the many is gone now. No need for further investigation or whatsoever. Nobody cares any more.
You realize that Hostly still plays and competes in tournaments right?
He's not gone at all. But you're right that no one cares that someone who actually cheated in a major tournament (run by his own team in fact) is still around the scene.
To me that's kind of sad.
On the other hand, there's no proof that MagicAmy actually botted / cheated in games. Just that she played around with guys online. Asking for money is not the same as stealing money so let's drop the scammer part (I'm sure each case went down differently, but can we agree she didn't extort guys into sending her money or hack their paypal?). Like I said in my earlier post, being deficient in your personal life hardly means you're going to cheat in your competitive life.
Just look at the SC2 scene quite a lot of those guys fooled around in their personal life and sometimes it even cost them in game (a certain progamer getting dq-ed for missing his match after 'entertaining' a fan the night before comes to mind). But that hardly means they're cheats or should be condemned for being dishonest competitors.
Ok,ok another one to explain. But i will take it shortly as i don't intend to waste much time. Nobody prevents Hosty to continue playing and nobody does prevent MagicAmy to continue playing. It is their personal choice. Both were released from their teams, despite not stating the true reason. I would distrust both of them in case of online playing. Both of them have the same chance to proof they are good players by attending a LAN tournament (if they are invited or qualified). Also as i already said - Hosty is one among many while Magicamy is supposedly the best female player in the world. Regarding SC2 example, I have no idea what are you talking about as i do not follow SC2 scene at all. However you are again stating absolutely different individual example here which has nothing to do (or is similar in any way) with Magicamy's case.
My point is MagicAmy is being condemned for personal failings, while Hosty was condemned for actual game integrity issues.
The personal failings don't go away if MagicAmy does well in a lan, my point was for other players most keep leave the personal drama out. Yet it's so tied to why people say MagicAmy is guilty of cheating or whatever.
I think it's this distinction that's separating most posters in this thread.
On February 26 2015 04:24 Wuster wrote: My point is MagicAmy is being condemned for personal failings, while Hosty was condemned for actual game integrity issues.
The personal failings don't go away if MagicAmy does well in a lan, my point was for other players most keep leave the personal drama out. Yet it's so tied to why people say MagicAmy is guilty of cheating or whatever.
I think it's this distinction that's separating most posters in this thread.
I repeat these are 2 totally different and individual cases and you can't really compare them.
Hosty was condemned for actual game integrity issue - that is true. But the issue was that he cheated in a streamed tournament by watching the stream. This does not show or imply in any way that his achievements,records in HS in other cases (not streamed tournaments, not streamed online games, ladder, he played LANs before if i am not mistaken) were accomplished due to cheating.
MagicAmy on the other hand is suspected of being a complete fraud and that all her achievements might have been accomplished thanks to cheating in some way. This is much more severe accustation than in Hosty's case. This combined with her being "the best" an him being one among many, is the reason why people react as they do.
On February 26 2015 04:24 Wuster wrote: My point is MagicAmy is being condemned for personal failings, while Hosty was condemned for actual game integrity issues.
The personal failings don't go away if MagicAmy does well in a lan, my point was for other players most keep leave the personal drama out. Yet it's so tied to why people say MagicAmy is guilty of cheating or whatever.
I think it's this distinction that's separating most posters in this thread.
I repeat these are 2 totally different and individual cases and you can't really compare them.
Hosty was condemned for actual game integrity issue - that is true. But the issue was that he cheated in a streamed tournament by watching the stream. This does not show or imply in any way that his achievements,records in HS in other cases (not streamed tournaments, not streamed online games, ladder, he played LANs before if i am not mistaken) were accomplished due to cheating.
MagicAmy on the other hand is suspected of being a complete fraud and that all her achievements might have been accomplished thanks to cheating in some way. This is much more severe accustation than in Hosty's case. This combined with her being "the best" an him being one among many, is the reason why people react as they do.
You have completely lost the plot. So, Hosty actually being caught actually doing something which could result in an unfair advantage IN NO WAY implies that he ever did anything wrong on any other occasion while a bunch of ignorant assholes making wild, unsubstantiated claims and airing personal grievances is compelling evidence that everything MagicAmy ever did in Hearthstone was faked? And this OK because Hosty is one among many dudes while MagicAmy was hailed as the best female player? Is that the narrative? You're a complete joke.
On February 26 2015 01:41 Elizar wrote: Just because there is no "hard proof" doesn´t automatically make it impossible that there is sth. true about those claims.
Good thing nobody said that, then.
So suddenly you accept my viewpoint? How did that happen?
Edit: Substituted "understand" which "accept".
Any time you're ready to engage with things I've actually said, let me know.
Nah, I finally conclude I have wasted enough time on that already. Good luck and have fun with your crusade.
Yeah, it's much simpler to just make shit up than to represent honestly what your interlocutors have said. I feel your pain, bro. Really, I do.
On February 26 2015 01:41 Elizar wrote: Just because there is no "hard proof" doesn´t automatically make it impossible that there is sth. true about those claims.
Good thing nobody said that, then.
So suddenly you accept my viewpoint? How did that happen?
Edit: Substituted "understand" which "accept".
Any time you're ready to engage with things I've actually said, let me know.
Nah, I finally conclude I have wasted enough time on that already. Good luck and have fun with your crusade.
Yeah, it's much simpler to just make shit up than to represent honestly what your interlocutors have said. I feel your pain, bro. Really, I do.
I´m the one who treats that story as a joke, remember? You´re the one who wants to take on the internet. Sooo .... I´m not the one who feels any pain here. And you made shit up, too. Guess you dont even see it, "bro". Btw. I have two brothers. You´re not one of them
So Elizar, a friend just told me that you have sex with goats. I'm not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but my friend says he has proof and why would he lie?
Can you prove his accusations wrong? I mean, it seems simple enough that if you don't have sex with goats that you would easily show us that you don't have sex with goats and his accusation is wrong.
I am going to be highly suspicious though if you choose not to prove these claims wrong. What would you have to hide? That seems fishy if you can't prove these accusations wrong.
I'll be waiting for you to choose to prove these accusations wrong under your own free will. Remember, I am not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but if you don't prove these accusations incorrect, then I wonder why?
On February 27 2015 05:28 litlnoobs wrote: So Elizar, a friend just told me that you have sex with goats. I'm not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but my friend says he has proof and why would he lie?
Can you prove his accusations wrong? I mean, it seems simple enough that if you don't have sex with goats that you would easily show us that you don't have sex with goats and his accusation is wrong.
I am going to be highly suspicious though if you choose not to prove these claims wrong. What would you have to hide? That seems fishy if you can't prove these accusations wrong.
I'll be waiting for you to choose to prove these accusations wrong under your own free will. Remember, I am not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but if you don't prove these accusations incorrect, then I wonder why?
Your friend is a liar. Goats? Please ..... Sheeps are the thing! More fluffy u know ...
I heard people wanted to improve the community. As it is now I become a troll. Thats said, isn´t it? I do hate trolls and never considered me being one and now I turn into one. Sheeps on the other hand ... so fluffy I´m gonna die! Let´s all become sheeps. Maybe explosive ones.
You know why I don´t even consider your accusations worthy a real response? Guess! You´re so smart I´m sure you will figure it out yourself !!
On February 27 2015 05:28 litlnoobs wrote: So Elizar, a friend just told me that you have sex with goats. I'm not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but my friend says he has proof and why would he lie?
Can you prove his accusations wrong? I mean, it seems simple enough that if you don't have sex with goats that you would easily show us that you don't have sex with goats and his accusation is wrong.
I am going to be highly suspicious though if you choose not to prove these claims wrong. What would you have to hide? That seems fishy if you can't prove these accusations wrong.
I'll be waiting for you to choose to prove these accusations wrong under your own free will. Remember, I am not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but if you don't prove these accusations incorrect, then I wonder why?
how exactly do you show you dont have sex with goats? moreover, how do you prove a negative?
On February 27 2015 05:28 litlnoobs wrote: So Elizar, a friend just told me that you have sex with goats. I'm not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but my friend says he has proof and why would he lie?
Can you prove his accusations wrong? I mean, it seems simple enough that if you don't have sex with goats that you would easily show us that you don't have sex with goats and his accusation is wrong.
I am going to be highly suspicious though if you choose not to prove these claims wrong. What would you have to hide? That seems fishy if you can't prove these accusations wrong.
I'll be waiting for you to choose to prove these accusations wrong under your own free will. Remember, I am not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but if you don't prove these accusations incorrect, then I wonder why?
how exactly do you show you dont have sex with goats? moreover, how do you prove a negative?
That's his whole point I guess...
On a serious note, I actually was told that once, in the office of a public health insurance company: That I would have to prove that a person never had private health insurance.
The goat thing isn't relevant here because magicamy can easily prove she's the one playing her account. Just release a video of her playing games on her account! Or show up to a live event. We know she has a webcam. She didn't even try, which is strange for someone who started their own Hearthstone team, and willingly joined Tempo storm. You would expect that a hearthstone pro or aspiring pro when accused of not playing their own games, would laugh and try to prove everyone wrong. That's why people are convinced she's a fraud.
On February 27 2015 14:54 stink123 wrote: The goat thing isn't relevant here because magicamy can easily prove she's the one playing her account. Just release a video of her playing games on her account! Or show up to a live event. We know she has a webcam. She didn't even try, which is strange for someone who started their own Hearthstone team, and willingly joined Tempo storm. You would expect that a hearthstone pro or aspiring pro when accused of not playing their own games, would laugh and try to prove everyone wrong. That's why people are convinced she's a fraud.
YOU would expect that. People who are actually acquainted with actual, reasonable human behavior would think that someone in that position might very well tell the Hearthstone community to go fuck its collective self and find something else to do with their life that doesn't require them to prove their worth to a bunch of howling man-children who will believe anything they read on the internet unless it involves a woman actually deserving whatever success she's achieved.
Um, isn't that the exact opposite of how you act towards an actual reasonable human being? If someone says "I don't believe you play Hearthstone" wouldn't you show them your hearthstone account? Not curse them out and throw a tantrum as you suggest.
Like with any community, respect must be earned, and maintained. When someone publicly calls you out, and you don't respond, the community will respect you less. Doubly so when you're on a team, and your TEAM asks you to respond. Not only do you let down your fans, but also your teammates and team as well. There's no way I could respect magicamy after this, because she treated people who cheered for her, and her team like trash. If instead, she had released a video of her playing her account and destroying people (or just showed up to an offline event), then she could've kept her spot on the team, and no one could reasonably doubt her authenticity.
Also, people regularly make videos showing them playing when people don't believe them. Here's one for example:
On February 28 2015 10:40 stink123 wrote: Um, isn't that the exact opposite of how you act towards an actual reasonable human being? If someone says "I don't believe you play Hearthstone" wouldn't you show them your hearthstone account? Not curse them out and throw a tantrum as you suggest.
Like with any community, respect must be earned, and maintained. When someone publicly calls you out, and you don't respond, the community will respect you less. Doubly so when you're on a team, and your TEAM asks you to respond. Not only do you let down your fans, but also your teammates and team as well. There's no way I could respect magicamy after this, because she treated people who cheered for her, and her team like trash. If instead, she had released a video of her playing her account and destroying people (or just showed up to an offline event), then she could've kept her spot on the team, and no one could reasonably doubt her authenticity.
You've actually just perfectly illustrated why this whole situation pisses me off. What happened here is that a few assholes tried to throw someone under the bus based on breathtakingly flimsy evidence. They don't seem to have wasted a single instant thinking about the impact they were having on a real human being's life. They posted their chat logs to Twitter, fanned the flames lit by Specialist, whipped the community into such a frenzy that TempoStorm was eventually forced to investigate. And TempoStorm says they found nothing. But nobody believes TempoStorm who had access to real evidence beyond a chat log and the word of a couple of assholes who thought airing this shit on reddit and twitter was a perfectly OK thing to do. Wild, unsubstantiated claims on the other hand and the word of those assholes? That's totally believable. Because reasons.
What you have here is a few people purposely whipping up a very large internet community against another person. People whose only evidence is some chat logs and a screen shot of a bank statement. People whose stories don't even agree with each other (some think Amy is two people, some don't). And the victim of this witch hunt is the one who you apparently think needs to earn respect back. That is seriously fucked up.
On February 28 2015 10:40 stink123 wrote: Um, isn't that the exact opposite of how you act towards an actual reasonable human being? If someone says "I don't believe you play Hearthstone" wouldn't you show them your hearthstone account? Not curse them out and throw a tantrum as you suggest.
Like with any community, respect must be earned, and maintained. When someone publicly calls you out, and you don't respond, the community will respect you less. Doubly so when you're on a team, and your TEAM asks you to respond. Not only do you let down your fans, but also your teammates and team as well. There's no way I could respect magicamy after this, because she treated people who cheered for her, and her team like trash. If instead, she had released a video of her playing her account and destroying people (or just showed up to an offline event), then she could've kept her spot on the team, and no one could reasonably doubt her authenticity.
You've actually just perfectly illustrated why this whole situation pisses me off. What happened here is that a few assholes tried to throw someone under the bus based on breathtakingly flimsy evidence. They don't seem to have wasted a single instant thinking about the impact they were having on a real human being's life. They posted their chat logs to Twitter, fanned the flames lit by Specialist, whipped the community into such a frenzy that TempoStorm was eventually forced to investigate. And TempoStorm says they found nothing. But nobody believes TempoStorm who had access to real evidence beyond a chat log and the word of a couple of assholes who thought airing this shit on reddit and twitter was a perfectly OK thing to do. Wild, unsubstantiated claims on the other hand and the word of those assholes? That's totally believable. Because reasons.
What you have here is a few people purposely whipping up a very large internet community against another person. People whose only evidence is some chat logs and a screen shot of a bank statement. People whose stories don't even agree with each other (some think Amy is two people, some don't). And the victim of this witch hunt is the one who you apparently think needs to earn respect back. That is seriously fucked up.
I think the community reacted very reasonably. There are very few who actually think for certain that MagicAmy is a fraud, but the vast majority will formulate a position based on evidence. When information presents itself, people's view changes in the corresponding direction. A reasonable observer won't go all the way and think they know the truth, unless the evidence is very strong, but it is ridiculous to expect them to not change expectations. Given MagicAmy's public status in the community and everything she has worked hard for, to not disprove all her detractors' claims is a very strange line of behaviour, particularly because that would be so easy to do if she is who she claims to be. To me, this is a piece of information a clear-thinking observer cannot ignore, even with the understanding that it is insufficient to prove she is a fraud.
Based on the information I have, it is more likely than not that MagicAmy is a fraud. I will not bet my life on it since I don't know the truth, but if someone holds a gun to my head and demands a definitive correct answer, I would play to the odds and say she is a fraud.
It is those people that blindly refuse to move on evidence, and fanatically stick to their original position regardless of visible developments, that are being unreasonable. You seem to fit that shoe.
On February 28 2015 10:40 stink123 wrote: Um, isn't that the exact opposite of how you act towards an actual reasonable human being? If someone says "I don't believe you play Hearthstone" wouldn't you show them your hearthstone account? Not curse them out and throw a tantrum as you suggest.
Like with any community, respect must be earned, and maintained. When someone publicly calls you out, and you don't respond, the community will respect you less. Doubly so when you're on a team, and your TEAM asks you to respond. Not only do you let down your fans, but also your teammates and team as well. There's no way I could respect magicamy after this, because she treated people who cheered for her, and her team like trash. If instead, she had released a video of her playing her account and destroying people (or just showed up to an offline event), then she could've kept her spot on the team, and no one could reasonably doubt her authenticity.
You've actually just perfectly illustrated why this whole situation pisses me off. What happened here is that a few assholes tried to throw someone under the bus based on breathtakingly flimsy evidence. They don't seem to have wasted a single instant thinking about the impact they were having on a real human being's life. They posted their chat logs to Twitter, fanned the flames lit by Specialist, whipped the community into such a frenzy that TempoStorm was eventually forced to investigate. And TempoStorm says they found nothing. But nobody believes TempoStorm who had access to real evidence beyond a chat log and the word of a couple of assholes who thought airing this shit on reddit and twitter was a perfectly OK thing to do. Wild, unsubstantiated claims on the other hand and the word of those assholes? That's totally believable. Because reasons.
What you have here is a few people purposely whipping up a very large internet community against another person. People whose only evidence is some chat logs and a screen shot of a bank statement. People whose stories don't even agree with each other (some think Amy is two people, some don't). And the victim of this witch hunt is the one who you apparently think needs to earn respect back. That is seriously fucked up.
I think the community reacted very reasonably. There are very few who actually think for certain that MagicAmy is a fraud, but the vast majority will formulate a position based on evidence. When a piece of information presents itself, people's view changes in the appropriate direction. A reasonable observer won't go all the way and think they know the truth, unless the evidence is very strong, but it is ridiculous to expect them to not change expectations. Given MagicAmy's public status in the community and everything she has worked hard for, to not disprove all her detractors' claims is a very strange line of behaviour, particularly because that would be so easy to do if she is who she claims to be. To me, this is a piece of information a clear-thinking observer cannot ignore, even with the understanding that it is insufficient to prove she is a fraud.
It is those people that blindly refuse to move on evidence, and fanatically stick to their original position regardless of visible developments, that are being unreasonable. You seem to fit that shoe.
What a dishonest pile of crap you've just posted. You think it's reasonable to drive someone out of a community when you don't know for certain that the reason you're driving them out is even true? You think it's unreasonable for someone to want nothing to do with a community that has just gone to great lengths to destroy everything they've worked hard for? You think being unwilling to act on rank speculation and wild, unsubstantiated claims makes me a blind fanatic? I'm sorry but that's just abject bullshit. When people treat me like shit, I stop fucking associating with them. If I have suspicions about someone's behavior, I take it to someone with the means to investigate properly; I don't just blast it from my social media accounts.
On February 28 2015 10:40 stink123 wrote: Um, isn't that the exact opposite of how you act towards an actual reasonable human being? If someone says "I don't believe you play Hearthstone" wouldn't you show them your hearthstone account? Not curse them out and throw a tantrum as you suggest.
Like with any community, respect must be earned, and maintained. When someone publicly calls you out, and you don't respond, the community will respect you less. Doubly so when you're on a team, and your TEAM asks you to respond. Not only do you let down your fans, but also your teammates and team as well. There's no way I could respect magicamy after this, because she treated people who cheered for her, and her team like trash. If instead, she had released a video of her playing her account and destroying people (or just showed up to an offline event), then she could've kept her spot on the team, and no one could reasonably doubt her authenticity.
You've actually just perfectly illustrated why this whole situation pisses me off. What happened here is that a few assholes tried to throw someone under the bus based on breathtakingly flimsy evidence. They don't seem to have wasted a single instant thinking about the impact they were having on a real human being's life. They posted their chat logs to Twitter, fanned the flames lit by Specialist, whipped the community into such a frenzy that TempoStorm was eventually forced to investigate. And TempoStorm says they found nothing. But nobody believes TempoStorm who had access to real evidence beyond a chat log and the word of a couple of assholes who thought airing this shit on reddit and twitter was a perfectly OK thing to do. Wild, unsubstantiated claims on the other hand and the word of those assholes? That's totally believable. Because reasons.
What you have here is a few people purposely whipping up a very large internet community against another person. People whose only evidence is some chat logs and a screen shot of a bank statement. People whose stories don't even agree with each other (some think Amy is two people, some don't). And the victim of this witch hunt is the one who you apparently think needs to earn respect back. That is seriously fucked up.
I think the community reacted very reasonably. There are very few who actually think for certain that MagicAmy is a fraud, but the vast majority will formulate a position based on evidence. When a piece of information presents itself, people's view changes in the appropriate direction. A reasonable observer won't go all the way and think they know the truth, unless the evidence is very strong, but it is ridiculous to expect them to not change expectations. Given MagicAmy's public status in the community and everything she has worked hard for, to not disprove all her detractors' claims is a very strange line of behaviour, particularly because that would be so easy to do if she is who she claims to be. To me, this is a piece of information a clear-thinking observer cannot ignore, even with the understanding that it is insufficient to prove she is a fraud.
It is those people that blindly refuse to move on evidence, and fanatically stick to their original position regardless of visible developments, that are being unreasonable. You seem to fit that shoe.
What a dishonest pile of crap you've just posted. You think it's reasonable to drive someone out of a community when you don't know for certain that the reason you're driving them out is even true? You think it's unreasonable for someone to want nothing to do with a community that has just gone to great lengths to destroy everything they've worked hard for? You think being unwilling to act on rank speculation and wild, unsubstantiated claims makes me a blind fanatic? I'm sorry but that's just abject bullshit. When people treat me like shit, I stop fucking associating with them. If I have suspicions about someone's behavior, I take it to someone with the means to investigate properly; I don't just blast it from my social media accounts.
The emotional rant you post really doesn't help convincing any neutral people of your position.
On February 28 2015 10:40 stink123 wrote: Um, isn't that the exact opposite of how you act towards an actual reasonable human being? If someone says "I don't believe you play Hearthstone" wouldn't you show them your hearthstone account? Not curse them out and throw a tantrum as you suggest.
Like with any community, respect must be earned, and maintained. When someone publicly calls you out, and you don't respond, the community will respect you less. Doubly so when you're on a team, and your TEAM asks you to respond. Not only do you let down your fans, but also your teammates and team as well. There's no way I could respect magicamy after this, because she treated people who cheered for her, and her team like trash. If instead, she had released a video of her playing her account and destroying people (or just showed up to an offline event), then she could've kept her spot on the team, and no one could reasonably doubt her authenticity.
You've actually just perfectly illustrated why this whole situation pisses me off. What happened here is that a few assholes tried to throw someone under the bus based on breathtakingly flimsy evidence. They don't seem to have wasted a single instant thinking about the impact they were having on a real human being's life. They posted their chat logs to Twitter, fanned the flames lit by Specialist, whipped the community into such a frenzy that TempoStorm was eventually forced to investigate. And TempoStorm says they found nothing. But nobody believes TempoStorm who had access to real evidence beyond a chat log and the word of a couple of assholes who thought airing this shit on reddit and twitter was a perfectly OK thing to do. Wild, unsubstantiated claims on the other hand and the word of those assholes? That's totally believable. Because reasons.
What you have here is a few people purposely whipping up a very large internet community against another person. People whose only evidence is some chat logs and a screen shot of a bank statement. People whose stories don't even agree with each other (some think Amy is two people, some don't). And the victim of this witch hunt is the one who you apparently think needs to earn respect back. That is seriously fucked up.
I think the community reacted very reasonably. There are very few who actually think for certain that MagicAmy is a fraud, but the vast majority will formulate a position based on evidence. When a piece of information presents itself, people's view changes in the appropriate direction. A reasonable observer won't go all the way and think they know the truth, unless the evidence is very strong, but it is ridiculous to expect them to not change expectations. Given MagicAmy's public status in the community and everything she has worked hard for, to not disprove all her detractors' claims is a very strange line of behaviour, particularly because that would be so easy to do if she is who she claims to be. To me, this is a piece of information a clear-thinking observer cannot ignore, even with the understanding that it is insufficient to prove she is a fraud.
It is those people that blindly refuse to move on evidence, and fanatically stick to their original position regardless of visible developments, that are being unreasonable. You seem to fit that shoe.
What a dishonest pile of crap you've just posted. You think it's reasonable to drive someone out of a community when you don't know for certain that the reason you're driving them out is even true? You think it's unreasonable for someone to want nothing to do with a community that has just gone to great lengths to destroy everything they've worked hard for? You think being unwilling to act on rank speculation and wild, unsubstantiated claims makes me a blind fanatic? I'm sorry but that's just abject bullshit. When people treat me like shit, I stop fucking associating with them. If I have suspicions about someone's behavior, I take it to someone with the means to investigate properly; I don't just blast it from my social media accounts.
The emotional rant you post really doesn't help convincing any neutral people of your position.
Does the presence of naughty words somehow affect your ability to parse words for meaning? If you're unable to engage with what I say unless I show you proper deference, that's your issue; not mine.
On February 27 2015 14:54 stink123 wrote: The goat thing isn't relevant here because magicamy can easily prove she's the one playing her account. Just release a video of her playing games on her account! Or show up to a live event. We know she has a webcam. She didn't even try, which is strange for someone who started their own Hearthstone team, and willingly joined Tempo storm. You would expect that a hearthstone pro or aspiring pro when accused of not playing their own games, would laugh and try to prove everyone wrong. That's why people are convinced she's a fraud.
On February 27 2015 05:28 litlnoobs wrote: So Elizar, a friend just told me that you have sex with goats. I'm not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but my friend says he has proof and why would he lie?
Can you prove his accusations wrong? I mean, it seems simple enough that if you don't have sex with goats that you would easily show us that you don't have sex with goats and his accusation is wrong.
I am going to be highly suspicious though if you choose not to prove these claims wrong. What would you have to hide? That seems fishy if you can't prove these accusations wrong.
I'll be waiting for you to choose to prove these accusations wrong under your own free will. Remember, I am not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but if you don't prove these accusations incorrect, then I wonder why?
Your friend is a liar. Goats? Please ..... Sheeps are the thing! More fluffy u know ...
I heard people wanted to improve the community. As it is now I become a troll. Thats said, isn´t it? I do hate trolls and never considered me being one and now I turn into one. Sheeps on the other hand ... so fluffy I´m gonna die! Let´s all become sheeps. Maybe explosive ones.
You know why I don´t even consider your accusations worthy a real response? Guess! You´re so smart I´m sure you will figure it out yourself !!
Well, at least now we're getting to the point. Now, imagine yourself in MagicAmy's shoes and a bunch of people like myself have just accused her of some bullshit like fucking goats.
Do you try to disprove it? Or do what you just did, and walk away? Any reasonable person would walk away. Like you just did.
On February 28 2015 10:40 stink123 wrote: Um, isn't that the exact opposite of how you act towards an actual reasonable human being? If someone says "I don't believe you play Hearthstone" wouldn't you show them your hearthstone account? Not curse them out and throw a tantrum as you suggest.
Like with any community, respect must be earned, and maintained. When someone publicly calls you out, and you don't respond, the community will respect you less. Doubly so when you're on a team, and your TEAM asks you to respond. Not only do you let down your fans, but also your teammates and team as well. There's no way I could respect magicamy after this, because she treated people who cheered for her, and her team like trash. If instead, she had released a video of her playing her account and destroying people (or just showed up to an offline event), then she could've kept her spot on the team, and no one could reasonably doubt her authenticity.
You've actually just perfectly illustrated why this whole situation pisses me off. What happened here is that a few assholes tried to throw someone under the bus based on breathtakingly flimsy evidence. They don't seem to have wasted a single instant thinking about the impact they were having on a real human being's life. They posted their chat logs to Twitter, fanned the flames lit by Specialist, whipped the community into such a frenzy that TempoStorm was eventually forced to investigate. And TempoStorm says they found nothing. But nobody believes TempoStorm who had access to real evidence beyond a chat log and the word of a couple of assholes who thought airing this shit on reddit and twitter was a perfectly OK thing to do. Wild, unsubstantiated claims on the other hand and the word of those assholes? That's totally believable. Because reasons.
What you have here is a few people purposely whipping up a very large internet community against another person. People whose only evidence is some chat logs and a screen shot of a bank statement. People whose stories don't even agree with each other (some think Amy is two people, some don't). And the victim of this witch hunt is the one who you apparently think needs to earn respect back. That is seriously fucked up.
I think the community reacted very reasonably. There are very few who actually think for certain that MagicAmy is a fraud, but the vast majority will formulate a position based on evidence. When a piece of information presents itself, people's view changes in the appropriate direction. A reasonable observer won't go all the way and think they know the truth, unless the evidence is very strong, but it is ridiculous to expect them to not change expectations. Given MagicAmy's public status in the community and everything she has worked hard for, to not disprove all her detractors' claims is a very strange line of behaviour, particularly because that would be so easy to do if she is who she claims to be. To me, this is a piece of information a clear-thinking observer cannot ignore, even with the understanding that it is insufficient to prove she is a fraud.
It is those people that blindly refuse to move on evidence, and fanatically stick to their original position regardless of visible developments, that are being unreasonable. You seem to fit that shoe.
What a dishonest pile of crap you've just posted. You think it's reasonable to drive someone out of a community when you don't know for certain that the reason you're driving them out is even true? You think it's unreasonable for someone to want nothing to do with a community that has just gone to great lengths to destroy everything they've worked hard for? You think being unwilling to act on rank speculation and wild, unsubstantiated claims makes me a blind fanatic? I'm sorry but that's just abject bullshit. When people treat me like shit, I stop fucking associating with them. If I have suspicions about someone's behavior, I take it to someone with the means to investigate properly; I don't just blast it from my social media accounts.
The emotional rant you post really doesn't help convincing any neutral people of your position.
5unrise, you are absolutely right. BTW arguing with this Piegasm is just a waste of time as he/she showed on previous pages.
On February 28 2015 10:40 stink123 wrote: Um, isn't that the exact opposite of how you act towards an actual reasonable human being? If someone says "I don't believe you play Hearthstone" wouldn't you show them your hearthstone account? Not curse them out and throw a tantrum as you suggest.
Like with any community, respect must be earned, and maintained. When someone publicly calls you out, and you don't respond, the community will respect you less. Doubly so when you're on a team, and your TEAM asks you to respond. Not only do you let down your fans, but also your teammates and team as well. There's no way I could respect magicamy after this, because she treated people who cheered for her, and her team like trash. If instead, she had released a video of her playing her account and destroying people (or just showed up to an offline event), then she could've kept her spot on the team, and no one could reasonably doubt her authenticity.
You've actually just perfectly illustrated why this whole situation pisses me off. What happened here is that a few assholes tried to throw someone under the bus based on breathtakingly flimsy evidence. They don't seem to have wasted a single instant thinking about the impact they were having on a real human being's life. They posted their chat logs to Twitter, fanned the flames lit by Specialist, whipped the community into such a frenzy that TempoStorm was eventually forced to investigate. And TempoStorm says they found nothing. But nobody believes TempoStorm who had access to real evidence beyond a chat log and the word of a couple of assholes who thought airing this shit on reddit and twitter was a perfectly OK thing to do. Wild, unsubstantiated claims on the other hand and the word of those assholes? That's totally believable. Because reasons.
What you have here is a few people purposely whipping up a very large internet community against another person. People whose only evidence is some chat logs and a screen shot of a bank statement. People whose stories don't even agree with each other (some think Amy is two people, some don't). And the victim of this witch hunt is the one who you apparently think needs to earn respect back. That is seriously fucked up.
I think the community reacted very reasonably. There are very few who actually think for certain that MagicAmy is a fraud, but the vast majority will formulate a position based on evidence. When information presents itself, people's view changes in the corresponding direction. A reasonable observer won't go all the way and think they know the truth, unless the evidence is very strong, but it is ridiculous to expect them to not change expectations. Given MagicAmy's public status in the community and everything she has worked hard for, to not disprove all her detractors' claims is a very strange line of behaviour, particularly because that would be so easy to do if she is who she claims to be. To me, this is a piece of information a clear-thinking observer cannot ignore, even with the understanding that it is insufficient to prove she is a fraud.
Based on the information I have, it is more likely than not that MagicAmy is a fraud. I will not bet my life on it since I don't know the truth, but if someone holds a gun to my head and demands a definitive correct answer, I would play to the odds and say she is a fraud.
It is those people that blindly refuse to move on evidence, and fanatically stick to their original position regardless of visible developments, that are being unreasonable. You seem to fit that shoe.
On February 27 2015 05:28 litlnoobs wrote: So Elizar, a friend just told me that you have sex with goats. I'm not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but my friend says he has proof and why would he lie?
Can you prove his accusations wrong? I mean, it seems simple enough that if you don't have sex with goats that you would easily show us that you don't have sex with goats and his accusation is wrong.
I am going to be highly suspicious though if you choose not to prove these claims wrong. What would you have to hide? That seems fishy if you can't prove these accusations wrong.
I'll be waiting for you to choose to prove these accusations wrong under your own free will. Remember, I am not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but if you don't prove these accusations incorrect, then I wonder why?
Your friend is a liar. Goats? Please ..... Sheeps are the thing! More fluffy u know ...
I heard people wanted to improve the community. As it is now I become a troll. Thats said, isn´t it? I do hate trolls and never considered me being one and now I turn into one. Sheeps on the other hand ... so fluffy I´m gonna die! Let´s all become sheeps. Maybe explosive ones.
You know why I don´t even consider your accusations worthy a real response? Guess! You´re so smart I´m sure you will figure it out yourself !!
Well, at least now we're getting to the point. Now, imagine yourself in MagicAmy's shoes and a bunch of people like myself have just accused her of some bullshit like fucking goats.
Do you try to disprove it? Or do what you just did, and walk away? Any reasonable person would walk away. Like you just did.
Thanks for playing and proving the point. Cheers.
So let's see, I've put tons of time and money into learning a game and am at a level where I have enough popularity and skill to be a professional player of it. Would I prove myself innocent or walk away and waste all the time I've spent on it?
It's hilarious that you compare it to a forum post.
On February 27 2015 05:28 litlnoobs wrote: So Elizar, a friend just told me that you have sex with goats. I'm not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but my friend says he has proof and why would he lie?
Can you prove his accusations wrong? I mean, it seems simple enough that if you don't have sex with goats that you would easily show us that you don't have sex with goats and his accusation is wrong.
I am going to be highly suspicious though if you choose not to prove these claims wrong. What would you have to hide? That seems fishy if you can't prove these accusations wrong.
I'll be waiting for you to choose to prove these accusations wrong under your own free will. Remember, I am not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but if you don't prove these accusations incorrect, then I wonder why?
Your friend is a liar. Goats? Please ..... Sheeps are the thing! More fluffy u know ...
I heard people wanted to improve the community. As it is now I become a troll. Thats said, isn´t it? I do hate trolls and never considered me being one and now I turn into one. Sheeps on the other hand ... so fluffy I´m gonna die! Let´s all become sheeps. Maybe explosive ones.
You know why I don´t even consider your accusations worthy a real response? Guess! You´re so smart I´m sure you will figure it out yourself !!
Well, at least now we're getting to the point. Now, imagine yourself in MagicAmy's shoes and a bunch of people like myself have just accused her of some bullshit like fucking goats.
Do you try to disprove it? Or do what you just did, and walk away? Any reasonable person would walk away. Like you just did.
Thanks for playing and proving the point. Cheers.
So let's see, I've put tons of time and money into learning a game and am at a level where I have enough popularity and skill to be a professional player of it. Would I prove myself innocent or walk away and waste all the time I've spent on it?
It's hilarious that you compare it to a forum post.
It's hilarious how, in order to make this point, everyone has to pretend that the very people who gleefully banded together to push MagicAmy out of the community would somehow stop being assholes if only MagicAmy capitulated to their demands and agreed to jump through their hoops.
If MagicAmy had put up play, I would have watched it. I would also have watched the various play reviews that showed up from professionals. If there had been any modicum of support for her, I would have become an instant supporter. There are many people who are with me. The story of the girl scorned by the community who manages to show how good she is despite hate is a very strong and compelling one, as shown by players like Scarlett. She still gets shit, certainly, but there's a ton of support for her as well. MagicAmy would have gotten the same treatment, probably with even more support.
Let's turn things around. What would it take you to believe that she's a fraud? What evidence do you need? Keep in mind that there does need to be some reasonable standard that can be reached, because otherwise cheats can get away with anything.
On March 01 2015 00:35 Acritter wrote: If MagicAmy had put up play, I would have watched it. I would also have watched the various play reviews that showed up from professionals. If there had been any modicum of support for her, I would have become an instant supporter. There are many people who are with me. The story of the girl scorned by the community who manages to show how good she is despite hate is a very strong and compelling one, as shown by players like Scarlett. She still gets shit, certainly, but there's a ton of support for her as well. MagicAmy would have gotten the same treatment, probably with even more support.
Let's turn things around. What would it take you to believe that she's a fraud? What evidence do you need? Keep in mind that there does need to be some reasonable standard that can be reached, because otherwise cheats can get away with anything.
What would it take for me to believe she's a fraud? How about evidence that actually speaks to the question being asked?
-Chat logs show that she was sharing some social media accounts with someone. Not evidence of faked identity or cheating at Hearthstone.
-Celerity's bank statement shows he gave her money but not that she "scammed" him. Even if she mislead him about that money, that has nothing to do with Hearthstone.
-Nobody has yet even tried to speculate what her motive is supposed to have been. What's the end game? Why fake your way through online qualifiers for a live event when you KNOW you won't be able to attend the live event without giving yourself away? If William Blaney is the brains behind MagicAmy, it makes a metric shitton more sense to play as yourself so you can attend the live events with the big prizes, doesn't it? Especially considering that all the money that could be made is the main reason people keep saying they think it's fishy that MagicAmy backed out. "Why would she turn down all that money to play at live events if she was real?!?!?", they ask. Well, I'm asking "If money is the primary motivator here, why wouldn't William Blaney just play as himself so he could actually attend these live events that he KNEW he was qualifying for?"
So what would it take? It would take evidence that actually makes some sort of sense, fits with a coherent explanation and stands up to scrutiny.
MagicAmy proved herself to be a fraud. MagicAmy was given multiple chances to prove herself and she refused every single one. The fact that you so blindly defend a total fraud speaks volumes to the kind of person you are.
Anybody who defends MagicAmy at this point is a very sad and deluded white knight. Nobody asked her to jump through hoops or do anything special, just actually play the game she was supposed to be a pro at.
On February 27 2015 05:28 litlnoobs wrote: So Elizar, a friend just told me that you have sex with goats. I'm not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but my friend says he has proof and why would he lie?
Can you prove his accusations wrong? I mean, it seems simple enough that if you don't have sex with goats that you would easily show us that you don't have sex with goats and his accusation is wrong.
I am going to be highly suspicious though if you choose not to prove these claims wrong. What would you have to hide? That seems fishy if you can't prove these accusations wrong.
I'll be waiting for you to choose to prove these accusations wrong under your own free will. Remember, I am not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but if you don't prove these accusations incorrect, then I wonder why?
Your friend is a liar. Goats? Please ..... Sheeps are the thing! More fluffy u know ...
I heard people wanted to improve the community. As it is now I become a troll. Thats said, isn´t it? I do hate trolls and never considered me being one and now I turn into one. Sheeps on the other hand ... so fluffy I´m gonna die! Let´s all become sheeps. Maybe explosive ones.
You know why I don´t even consider your accusations worthy a real response? Guess! You´re so smart I´m sure you will figure it out yourself !!
Well, at least now we're getting to the point. Now, imagine yourself in MagicAmy's shoes and a bunch of people like myself have just accused her of some bullshit like fucking goats.
Do you try to disprove it? Or do what you just did, and walk away? Any reasonable person would walk away. Like you just did.
Thanks for playing and proving the point. Cheers.
So let's see, I've put tons of time and money into learning a game and am at a level where I have enough popularity and skill to be a professional player of it. Would I prove myself innocent or walk away and waste all the time I've spent on it?
It's hilarious that you compare it to a forum post.
Eh, I'm done with goalpost moving, strawmen making tools. If you don't get how her "evidence" was just a bunch of forum posts and that it no way proves guilt, then I'm sorry and I hope you don't live your life treating other people that way because that's sad.
On February 27 2015 05:28 litlnoobs wrote: So Elizar, a friend just told me that you have sex with goats. I'm not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but my friend says he has proof and why would he lie?
Can you prove his accusations wrong? I mean, it seems simple enough that if you don't have sex with goats that you would easily show us that you don't have sex with goats and his accusation is wrong.
I am going to be highly suspicious though if you choose not to prove these claims wrong. What would you have to hide? That seems fishy if you can't prove these accusations wrong.
I'll be waiting for you to choose to prove these accusations wrong under your own free will. Remember, I am not saying that you actually do have sex with goats, but if you don't prove these accusations incorrect, then I wonder why?
Your friend is a liar. Goats? Please ..... Sheeps are the thing! More fluffy u know ...
I heard people wanted to improve the community. As it is now I become a troll. Thats said, isn´t it? I do hate trolls and never considered me being one and now I turn into one. Sheeps on the other hand ... so fluffy I´m gonna die! Let´s all become sheeps. Maybe explosive ones.
You know why I don´t even consider your accusations worthy a real response? Guess! You´re so smart I´m sure you will figure it out yourself !!
Well, at least now we're getting to the point. Now, imagine yourself in MagicAmy's shoes and a bunch of people like myself have just accused her of some bullshit like fucking goats.
Do you try to disprove it? Or do what you just did, and walk away? Any reasonable person would walk away. Like you just did.
Thanks for playing and proving the point. Cheers.
Proving wat point? You compare apples to oranges. And there is nothing else to say to your post, that others like dAPhREAk already said.
I´m not in Magicamy´s shoes. I did not work hard for a reputation and I dont have a career. Actually I only watch streams and have not played even one game of hearthstone. That´s why I dont care about goat accusations from randomguyfromtheinternet. And no, any resonable person who cares about the game and made a name in the competitive scene would not simply walk away. At least if these accusations are completely nonsense (which I cannot know). You asked me, what I would do if I were in Amys shoes? Surely, I would not simply walk away. But I am not in her shoes, so that is only a theoretical. Ah and thank you for calling me a reasonable person!
On March 01 2015 10:34 Elizar wrote: And no, any resonable person who cares about the game and made a name in the competitive scene would not simply walk away. At least if these accusations are completely nonsense (which I cannot know).
Can we please, for the love of Bob, ditch this fantastically dishonest pretense that MagicAmy is just up and leaving for no fucking reason at all? IF MagicAmy is innocent, she is leaving behind a community which banded together to drive her away prompted by nothing but a few speculative forum posts. IF she's innocent, she's ditching a group of people who treated her horribly. It is not unreasonable to stop associating with people who treat you poorly. Christ.
On March 01 2015 00:35 Acritter wrote: If MagicAmy had put up play, I would have watched it. I would also have watched the various play reviews that showed up from professionals. If there had been any modicum of support for her, I would have become an instant supporter. There are many people who are with me. The story of the girl scorned by the community who manages to show how good she is despite hate is a very strong and compelling one, as shown by players like Scarlett. She still gets shit, certainly, but there's a ton of support for her as well. MagicAmy would have gotten the same treatment, probably with even more support.
Let's turn things around. What would it take you to believe that she's a fraud? What evidence do you need? Keep in mind that there does need to be some reasonable standard that can be reached, because otherwise cheats can get away with anything.
What would it take for me to believe she's a fraud? How about evidence that actually speaks to the question being asked?
-Chat logs show that she was sharing some social media accounts with someone. Not evidence of faked identity or cheating at Hearthstone.
-Celerity's bank statement shows he gave her money but not that she "scammed" him. Even if she mislead him about that money, that has nothing to do with Hearthstone.
-Nobody has yet even tried to speculate what her motive is supposed to have been. What's the end game? Why fake your way through online qualifiers for a live event when you KNOW you won't be able to attend the live event without giving yourself away? If William Blaney is the brains behind MagicAmy, it makes a metric shitton more sense to play as yourself so you can attend the live events with the big prizes, doesn't it? Especially considering that all the money that could be made is the main reason people keep saying they think it's fishy that MagicAmy backed out. "Why would she turn down all that money to play at live events if she was real?!?!?", they ask. Well, I'm asking "If money is the primary motivator here, why wouldn't William Blaney just play as himself so he could actually attend these live events that he KNEW he was qualifying for?"
So what would it take? It would take evidence that actually makes some sort of sense, fits with a coherent explanation and stands up to scrutiny.
On March 01 2015 00:35 Acritter wrote: If MagicAmy had put up play, I would have watched it. I would also have watched the various play reviews that showed up from professionals. If there had been any modicum of support for her, I would have become an instant supporter. There are many people who are with me. The story of the girl scorned by the community who manages to show how good she is despite hate is a very strong and compelling one, as shown by players like Scarlett. She still gets shit, certainly, but there's a ton of support for her as well. MagicAmy would have gotten the same treatment, probably with even more support.
Let's turn things around. What would it take you to believe that she's a fraud? What evidence do you need? Keep in mind that there does need to be some reasonable standard that can be reached, because otherwise cheats can get away with anything.
What would it take for me to believe she's a fraud? How about evidence that actually speaks to the question being asked?
-Chat logs show that she was sharing some social media accounts with someone. Not evidence of faked identity or cheating at Hearthstone.
-Celerity's bank statement shows he gave her money but not that she "scammed" him. Even if she mislead him about that money, that has nothing to do with Hearthstone.
-Nobody has yet even tried to speculate what her motive is supposed to have been. What's the end game? Why fake your way through online qualifiers for a live event when you KNOW you won't be able to attend the live event without giving yourself away? If William Blaney is the brains behind MagicAmy, it makes a metric shitton more sense to play as yourself so you can attend the live events with the big prizes, doesn't it? Especially considering that all the money that could be made is the main reason people keep saying they think it's fishy that MagicAmy backed out. "Why would she turn down all that money to play at live events if she was real?!?!?", they ask. Well, I'm asking "If money is the primary motivator here, why wouldn't William Blaney just play as himself so he could actually attend these live events that he KNEW he was qualifying for?"
So what would it take? It would take evidence that actually makes some sort of sense, fits with a coherent explanation and stands up to scrutiny.
You didn't answer the question.
Like hell I didn't. I'm not fucking clairvoyant, dudebro. I don't know specifically what facts it would take because such facts are currently not in evidence. How about all the shit TempoStorm looked for and didn't find? How about evidence that, during a tournament, MagicAmy's HS account connected from someplace she was known to not be? How about evidence of someone with verifiable Hearthstone knowledge talking to MagicAmy with voice and video willing to say that she was unable to speak competently about the game? How about a possible motive for this alleged conspiracy that isn't contradicted by reality?
You want to know why I won't accept a shared skype account as evidence of faked identity? You want to know why one person's word that she was dishonest about X doesn't convince me that she also lied about Y? You want to know why a bunch of amateur psychoanalysts saying she appeared disinterested on camera doesn't convince me that someone was feeding her plays she didn't understand? You want to know why unwillingness to talk to Forsen on Skype doesn't convince me she's hiding the fact that she's really a man? Because I'm not an abject fucking moron. That's why.
She seemed like an eccentric/proud person, so the reaction to just leave the scene, because of unproven accusations fits her character from what I've seen. Here's hoping she'll come back and prove people wrong eventually.
On March 01 2015 00:35 Acritter wrote: If MagicAmy had put up play, I would have watched it. I would also have watched the various play reviews that showed up from professionals. If there had been any modicum of support for her, I would have become an instant supporter. There are many people who are with me. The story of the girl scorned by the community who manages to show how good she is despite hate is a very strong and compelling one, as shown by players like Scarlett. She still gets shit, certainly, but there's a ton of support for her as well. MagicAmy would have gotten the same treatment, probably with even more support.
Let's turn things around. What would it take you to believe that she's a fraud? What evidence do you need? Keep in mind that there does need to be some reasonable standard that can be reached, because otherwise cheats can get away with anything.
What would it take for me to believe she's a fraud? How about evidence that actually speaks to the question being asked?
-Chat logs show that she was sharing some social media accounts with someone. Not evidence of faked identity or cheating at Hearthstone.
-Celerity's bank statement shows he gave her money but not that she "scammed" him. Even if she mislead him about that money, that has nothing to do with Hearthstone.
-Nobody has yet even tried to speculate what her motive is supposed to have been. What's the end game? Why fake your way through online qualifiers for a live event when you KNOW you won't be able to attend the live event without giving yourself away? If William Blaney is the brains behind MagicAmy, it makes a metric shitton more sense to play as yourself so you can attend the live events with the big prizes, doesn't it? Especially considering that all the money that could be made is the main reason people keep saying they think it's fishy that MagicAmy backed out. "Why would she turn down all that money to play at live events if she was real?!?!?", they ask. Well, I'm asking "If money is the primary motivator here, why wouldn't William Blaney just play as himself so he could actually attend these live events that he KNEW he was qualifying for?"
So what would it take? It would take evidence that actually makes some sort of sense, fits with a coherent explanation and stands up to scrutiny.
You didn't answer the question.
I just further want to point out how dishonest it is in the first place to ask "well what would convince you?!" It presupposes that what we already have should be enough, even though what we already doesn't even speak to the specific thing she's being accused of. Not a single one of you jackasses has been able to defend the charges against MagicAmy without skipping fairly important steps such as having evidence which pertains to the specific claims you're making and showing that your explanation for the "evidence" makes more sense than any other explanation.
On March 01 2015 10:34 Elizar wrote: And no, any resonable person who cares about the game and made a name in the competitive scene would not simply walk away. At least if these accusations are completely nonsense (which I cannot know).
Can we please, for the love of Bob, ditch this fantastically dishonest pretense that MagicAmy is just up and leaving for no fucking reason at all? IF MagicAmy is innocent, she is leaving behind a community which banded together to drive her away prompted by nothing but a few speculative forum posts. IF she's innocent, she's ditching a group of people who treated her horribly. It is not unreasonable to stop associating with people who treat you poorly. Christ.
Just because YOU think that the whole community banded together to drive her away doesn´t make it so. If you want to think that way, fine, but that is dishonest as well, also to you and you do many people injustice. There are enough people who give her the benefit of the doubt. But the way she treats the situation does not convince those people. Why should it? Again: That does not prove anything, but it increases the probabilty that it there is sth. to these accusations.
On March 01 2015 10:34 Elizar wrote: And no, any resonable person who cares about the game and made a name in the competitive scene would not simply walk away. At least if these accusations are completely nonsense (which I cannot know).
Can we please, for the love of Bob, ditch this fantastically dishonest pretense that MagicAmy is just up and leaving for no fucking reason at all? IF MagicAmy is innocent, she is leaving behind a community which banded together to drive her away prompted by nothing but a few speculative forum posts. IF she's innocent, she's ditching a group of people who treated her horribly. It is not unreasonable to stop associating with people who treat you poorly. Christ.
Just because YOU think that the whole community banded together to drive her away doesn´t make it so. If you want to think that way, fine, but that is dishonest as well, also to you and you do many people injustice. There are enough people who give her the benefit of the doubt. But the way she treats the situation does not convince those people. Why should it? Again: That does not prove anything, but it increases the probabilty that it there is sth. to these accusations.
Dude. Do you know someone who has a clue that might let you borrow one? What the actual fuck do you think happened here? Specialist made a post on reddit accusing MagicAmy of being a fraud. Chakki and Blackout released the chat logs they found because they thought it corroborated Specialist's claims. Elyot, Celerity et. al. posted about their experiences, also to corroborate those claims. A whole bunch of people pushed TempoStorm to investigate until they did. What the actual fuck do you call that if not banding together to drive her out? What they thought they were doing was alerting the community that a player was cheating FOR THE PURPOSE OF stopping them from competing in Hearthstone. Do you think they did this with the intent that everyone would ignore them?
Here, I'm going to pass on a bit of information that I suspect will come as rather a massive shock to you. Are you ready? Are you sure?
Ok...
...
Here we go.
Brace yourself, now.
1... 2... 3...
WORDS MEAN THINGS!
You don't get to look at this chain of events and act like simply opting not to use the phrase "band together to drive her out" changes the reality of what actually happened. Holy shit.
On March 01 2015 10:34 Elizar wrote: And no, any resonable person who cares about the game and made a name in the competitive scene would not simply walk away. At least if these accusations are completely nonsense (which I cannot know).
Can we please, for the love of Bob, ditch this fantastically dishonest pretense that MagicAmy is just up and leaving for no fucking reason at all? IF MagicAmy is innocent, she is leaving behind a community which banded together to drive her away prompted by nothing but a few speculative forum posts. IF she's innocent, she's ditching a group of people who treated her horribly. It is not unreasonable to stop associating with people who treat you poorly. Christ.
Just because YOU think that the whole community banded together to drive her away doesn´t make it so. If you want to think that way, fine, but that is dishonest as well, also to you and you do many people injustice. There are enough people who give her the benefit of the doubt. But the way she treats the situation does not convince those people. Why should it? Again: That does not prove anything, but it increases the probabilty that it there is sth. to these accusations.
Also:
It doesn't matter that not every single Hearthstone player believes this shit or participated in pressuring TempoStorm. Some percentage of the community believed Specialists's story, pressured TempoStorm to investigate and are now crowing about how right they were because MagicAmy opted out of the offline event. With very few exceptions, everyone else sat on their hands. For the most part, the only people speaking are the ones brandishing the torches and pitchforks. If you're not speaking against it, you're tacitly giving it your approval.
And if you're more worried about the "injustice" done to you by lumping you in with the people who actively participated in this shit than you are about the fact that a community you're part of may have just ruined an innocent person's career for no reason? You'll have to forgive me for concluding that you're a horrible person who does, in fact, deserve to be lumped in with those people.
On March 01 2015 10:34 Elizar wrote: And no, any resonable person who cares about the game and made a name in the competitive scene would not simply walk away. At least if these accusations are completely nonsense (which I cannot know).
Can we please, for the love of Bob, ditch this fantastically dishonest pretense that MagicAmy is just up and leaving for no fucking reason at all? IF MagicAmy is innocent, she is leaving behind a community which banded together to drive her away prompted by nothing but a few speculative forum posts. IF she's innocent, she's ditching a group of people who treated her horribly. It is not unreasonable to stop associating with people who treat you poorly. Christ.
Just because YOU think that the whole community banded together to drive her away doesn´t make it so. If you want to think that way, fine, but that is dishonest as well, also to you and you do many people injustice. There are enough people who give her the benefit of the doubt. But the way she treats the situation does not convince those people. Why should it? Again: That does not prove anything, but it increases the probabilty that it there is sth. to these accusations.
Dude. Do you know someone who has a clue that might let you borrow one? What the actual fuck do you think happened here? Specialist made a post on reddit accusing MagicAmy of being a fraud. Chakki and Blackout released the chat logs they found because they thought it corroborated Specialist's claims. Elyot, Celerity et. al. posted about their experiences, also to corroborate those claims. A whole bunch of people pushed TempoStorm to investigate until they did. What the actual fuck do you call that if not banding together to drive her out? What they thought they were doing was alerting the community that a player was cheating FOR THE PURPOSE OF stopping them from competing in Hearthstone. Do you think they did this with the intent that everyone would ignore them?
Here, I'm going to pass on a bit of information that I suspect will come as rather a massive shock to you. Are you ready? Are you sure?
Ok...
...
Here we go.
Brace yourself, now.
1... 2... 3...
WORDS MEAN THINGS!
You don't get to look at this chain of events and act like simply opting not to use the phrase "band together to drive her out" changes the reality of what actually happened. Holy shit.
Yup, you just proved (again) that you see this whole situation as a black and white thing. And anyone who disagrees with you is a clueless idiot to you.
And you want to improve the internet? That is never going to happen like that. It is like someone flaming me in dota. It won´t give results, at least not the ones the flamer wants.
Case closed. It is simply not worth talking to you.
On March 01 2015 10:34 Elizar wrote: And no, any resonable person who cares about the game and made a name in the competitive scene would not simply walk away. At least if these accusations are completely nonsense (which I cannot know).
Can we please, for the love of Bob, ditch this fantastically dishonest pretense that MagicAmy is just up and leaving for no fucking reason at all? IF MagicAmy is innocent, she is leaving behind a community which banded together to drive her away prompted by nothing but a few speculative forum posts. IF she's innocent, she's ditching a group of people who treated her horribly. It is not unreasonable to stop associating with people who treat you poorly. Christ.
Just because YOU think that the whole community banded together to drive her away doesn´t make it so. If you want to think that way, fine, but that is dishonest as well, also to you and you do many people injustice. There are enough people who give her the benefit of the doubt. But the way she treats the situation does not convince those people. Why should it? Again: That does not prove anything, but it increases the probabilty that it there is sth. to these accusations.
Also:
It doesn't matter that not every single Hearthstone player believes this shit or participated in pressuring TempoStorm. Some percentage of the community believed Specialists's story, pressured TempoStorm to investigate and are now crowing about how right they were because MagicAmy opted out of the offline event. With very few exceptions, everyone else sat on their hands. For the most part, the only people speaking are the ones brandishing the torches and pitchforks. If you're not speaking against it, you're tacitly giving it your approval.
And if you're more worried about the "injustice" done to you by lumping you in with the people who actively participated in this shit than you are about the fact that a community you're part of may have just ruined an innocent person's career for no reason? You'll have to forgive me for concluding that you're a horrible person who does, in fact, deserve to be lumped in with those people.
Injustice done to me? Dont´care, since it was from you. And no, I don´t have to forgive you anything. Your selfrighteous arrogance just improves my last post. Have a nice life, sir!
On March 01 2015 00:35 Acritter wrote: If MagicAmy had put up play, I would have watched it. I would also have watched the various play reviews that showed up from professionals. If there had been any modicum of support for her, I would have become an instant supporter. There are many people who are with me. The story of the girl scorned by the community who manages to show how good she is despite hate is a very strong and compelling one, as shown by players like Scarlett. She still gets shit, certainly, but there's a ton of support for her as well. MagicAmy would have gotten the same treatment, probably with even more support.
Let's turn things around. What would it take you to believe that she's a fraud? What evidence do you need? Keep in mind that there does need to be some reasonable standard that can be reached, because otherwise cheats can get away with anything.
What would it take for me to believe she's a fraud? How about evidence that actually speaks to the question being asked?
-Chat logs show that she was sharing some social media accounts with someone. Not evidence of faked identity or cheating at Hearthstone.
-Celerity's bank statement shows he gave her money but not that she "scammed" him. Even if she mislead him about that money, that has nothing to do with Hearthstone.
-Nobody has yet even tried to speculate what her motive is supposed to have been. What's the end game? Why fake your way through online qualifiers for a live event when you KNOW you won't be able to attend the live event without giving yourself away? If William Blaney is the brains behind MagicAmy, it makes a metric shitton more sense to play as yourself so you can attend the live events with the big prizes, doesn't it? Especially considering that all the money that could be made is the main reason people keep saying they think it's fishy that MagicAmy backed out. "Why would she turn down all that money to play at live events if she was real?!?!?", they ask. Well, I'm asking "If money is the primary motivator here, why wouldn't William Blaney just play as himself so he could actually attend these live events that he KNEW he was qualifying for?"
So what would it take? It would take evidence that actually makes some sort of sense, fits with a coherent explanation and stands up to scrutiny.
You didn't answer the question.
Like hell I didn't. I'm not fucking clairvoyant, dudebro. I don't know specifically what facts it would take because such facts are currently not in evidence. How about all the shit TempoStorm looked for and didn't find? How about evidence that, during a tournament, MagicAmy's HS account connected from someplace she was known to not be? How about evidence of someone with verifiable Hearthstone knowledge talking to MagicAmy with voice and video willing to say that she was unable to speak competently about the game? How about a possible motive for this alleged conspiracy that isn't contradicted by reality?
You want to know why I won't accept a shared skype account as evidence of faked identity? You want to know why one person's word that she was dishonest about X doesn't convince me that she also lied about Y? You want to know why a bunch of amateur psychoanalysts saying she appeared disinterested on camera doesn't convince me that someone was feeding her plays she didn't understand? You want to know why unwillingness to talk to Forsen on Skype doesn't convince me she's hiding the fact that she's really a man? Because I'm not an abject fucking moron. That's why.
On March 01 2015 10:34 Elizar wrote: And no, any resonable person who cares about the game and made a name in the competitive scene would not simply walk away. At least if these accusations are completely nonsense (which I cannot know).
Can we please, for the love of Bob, ditch this fantastically dishonest pretense that MagicAmy is just up and leaving for no fucking reason at all? IF MagicAmy is innocent, she is leaving behind a community which banded together to drive her away prompted by nothing but a few speculative forum posts. IF she's innocent, she's ditching a group of people who treated her horribly. It is not unreasonable to stop associating with people who treat you poorly. Christ.
Just because YOU think that the whole community banded together to drive her away doesn´t make it so. If you want to think that way, fine, but that is dishonest as well, also to you and you do many people injustice. There are enough people who give her the benefit of the doubt. But the way she treats the situation does not convince those people. Why should it? Again: That does not prove anything, but it increases the probabilty that it there is sth. to these accusations.
Dude. Do you know someone who has a clue that might let you borrow one? What the actual fuck do you think happened here? Specialist made a post on reddit accusing MagicAmy of being a fraud. Chakki and Blackout released the chat logs they found because they thought it corroborated Specialist's claims. Elyot, Celerity et. al. posted about their experiences, also to corroborate those claims. A whole bunch of people pushed TempoStorm to investigate until they did. What the actual fuck do you call that if not banding together to drive her out? What they thought they were doing was alerting the community that a player was cheating FOR THE PURPOSE OF stopping them from competing in Hearthstone. Do you think they did this with the intent that everyone would ignore them?
Here, I'm going to pass on a bit of information that I suspect will come as rather a massive shock to you. Are you ready? Are you sure?
Ok...
...
Here we go.
Brace yourself, now.
1... 2... 3...
WORDS MEAN THINGS!
You don't get to look at this chain of events and act like simply opting not to use the phrase "band together to drive her out" changes the reality of what actually happened. Holy shit.
Yup, you just proved (again) that you see this whole situation as a black and white thing. And anyone who disagrees with you is a clueless idiot to you.
And you want to improve the internet? That is never going to happen like that. It is like someone flaming me in dota. It won´t give results, at least not the ones the flamer wants.
Case closed. It is simply not worth talking to you.
God what a joke. Which part of the chain of events I described is inaccurate? None of it? That's what I thought. Reality is not a matter of opinion, diddums. Sorry (not sorry) to break it to you.
On March 01 2015 00:35 Acritter wrote: If MagicAmy had put up play, I would have watched it. I would also have watched the various play reviews that showed up from professionals. If there had been any modicum of support for her, I would have become an instant supporter. There are many people who are with me. The story of the girl scorned by the community who manages to show how good she is despite hate is a very strong and compelling one, as shown by players like Scarlett. She still gets shit, certainly, but there's a ton of support for her as well. MagicAmy would have gotten the same treatment, probably with even more support.
Let's turn things around. What would it take you to believe that she's a fraud? What evidence do you need? Keep in mind that there does need to be some reasonable standard that can be reached, because otherwise cheats can get away with anything.
What would it take for me to believe she's a fraud? How about evidence that actually speaks to the question being asked?
-Chat logs show that she was sharing some social media accounts with someone. Not evidence of faked identity or cheating at Hearthstone.
-Celerity's bank statement shows he gave her money but not that she "scammed" him. Even if she mislead him about that money, that has nothing to do with Hearthstone.
-Nobody has yet even tried to speculate what her motive is supposed to have been. What's the end game? Why fake your way through online qualifiers for a live event when you KNOW you won't be able to attend the live event without giving yourself away? If William Blaney is the brains behind MagicAmy, it makes a metric shitton more sense to play as yourself so you can attend the live events with the big prizes, doesn't it? Especially considering that all the money that could be made is the main reason people keep saying they think it's fishy that MagicAmy backed out. "Why would she turn down all that money to play at live events if she was real?!?!?", they ask. Well, I'm asking "If money is the primary motivator here, why wouldn't William Blaney just play as himself so he could actually attend these live events that he KNEW he was qualifying for?"
So what would it take? It would take evidence that actually makes some sort of sense, fits with a coherent explanation and stands up to scrutiny.
You didn't answer the question.
Like hell I didn't. I'm not fucking clairvoyant, dudebro. I don't know specifically what facts it would take because such facts are currently not in evidence. How about all the shit TempoStorm looked for and didn't find? How about evidence that, during a tournament, MagicAmy's HS account connected from someplace she was known to not be? How about evidence of someone with verifiable Hearthstone knowledge talking to MagicAmy with voice and video willing to say that she was unable to speak competently about the game? How about a possible motive for this alleged conspiracy that isn't contradicted by reality?
You want to know why I won't accept a shared skype account as evidence of faked identity? You want to know why one person's word that she was dishonest about X doesn't convince me that she also lied about Y? You want to know why a bunch of amateur psychoanalysts saying she appeared disinterested on camera doesn't convince me that someone was feeding her plays she didn't understand? You want to know why unwillingness to talk to Forsen on Skype doesn't convince me she's hiding the fact that she's really a man? Because I'm not an abject fucking moron. That's why.
He's right, you failed to answer the question.
Does your brain just disengage after reading one sentence? How specific do you want me to be? There are two very specific examples of things that would count as evidence to me in the very post you're quoting.
Riddle me this: if you're just going to declare everything that doesn't fit with your preferred narrative insufficient or a lie by fiat, why are you even trying to have this conversation? Just toddle off and believe whatever BS you want and let the grown ups talk.
The real question is; Why is piegasm not banned yet? Are these pages even modded? It's a bit hard to report cause no one has that option (yet). Kadaver should be set to LiquidHearth duty
On March 01 2015 23:52 Penlievskiov wrote: The real question is; Why is piegasm not banned yet? Are these pages even modded? It's a bit hard to report cause no one has that option (yet). Kadaver should be set to LiquidHearth duty
Hehe, I understand what you mean. Insulting like everybody who does not share his point of view (which he claims to be the absolute truth) normally results in bans om TL. But I´m not a administrator. On the other side, I somehow enjoy watching him rage. I know, I shouldn´t, but it comtinues putting smiles on my face.
On March 01 2015 23:52 Penlievskiov wrote: The real question is; Why is piegasm not banned yet? Are these pages even modded? It's a bit hard to report cause no one has that option (yet). Kadaver should be set to LiquidHearth duty
tl mods are generally not that active on lh. I do have the ability to report people, but I missed the whole magicamy thing, so i didnt read through all of this. I think, it's better to pm a mod if you think something needs to be done. Backseat moderation is also frowned upon here
On March 02 2015 02:27 rudimentalfeelthelov wrote: The other real question is why this topic isn't locked yet, the discussion on last 10 or so pages is utterly ridiculous.
Agreed. It is not getting anywhere whatsoever. So lock it.
On March 02 2015 02:27 rudimentalfeelthelov wrote: The other real question is why this topic isn't locked yet, the discussion on last 10 or so pages is utterly ridiculous.
Agreed. It is not getting anywhere whatsoever. So lock it.
And after all there is not much left to discuss - she quit, what's all the hassle about now?
On March 01 2015 23:52 Penlievskiov wrote: The real question is; Why is piegasm not banned yet? Are these pages even modded? It's a bit hard to report cause no one has that option (yet). Kadaver should be set to LiquidHearth duty
tl mods are generally not that active on lh. I do have the ability to report people, but I missed the whole magicamy thing, so i didnt read through all of this. I think, it's better to pm a mod if you think something needs to be done. Backseat moderation is also frowned upon here
Yeah, I know, I just found it amazing after so much insults :o
After how many posts did you get a report button then if I may ask?
Why do you still argue with this Tumblr Warrior? Stop giving him/her satisfaction, it's lose-lose situation to argue with these kind of people. Just ignore and have a happy stress-free day.
Ya know, I've been called a white knight, stupid, retarded, pathetic, sad, deluded, compared to a rock, etc. and so has everyone else who has expressed any kind of discomfort with this whole situation. I'd recommend you all climb down off those high horses before you hurt yourselves.
Piegasm, why do you hold women to such unbelievable esteem? I mean you take it so far, its like you have formed them into some angel or maybe even more pure and unattainable. When men have witchhunts they have to leave the scene too, why don't you care about Hosty or RDU? RDU/Hosty have just as much evidence of cheating as Magicamy. You don't acknowledge that. Only difference is Hosty and RDU have refused to leave the scene entirely. RDU even fought back to become a decent player just getting 4th place in Kinguin.
If Magicamy fought back she would be in RDU's position. If she doesn't want the fame then that is HER choice. Not "Penis Patrols" choice. Because its a woman though they need special protections from trolls and special protections. If women are superior to men then why do they need special treatment?
Anyway who cares because she sure didn't or she would at least fight for it. Why you want to fight for someone who won't fight back is really puzzling. Its the internet man, its not like we are ever going to gather a grand jury together and try Hiram Lee in a court of law, this is literally all we have to go on is accusations and how people react to the accusations. She reacted like Ben Affleck in Gone Girl.
When RDU got Hi Mom incident he didn't back down from the scene but people still mock him for Hi Mom. Hosty is all but changing his name to Ghosty because of his incident. Its insane to believe men all want women out when men get treated like crap too. That's the thing your type doesn't get, men get so much bullshit too, its not a campaign against women its a job hazard of being a online gamer.
People online have a "douche entitlement" they feel like it is their God given right to mock and tear down streamers. If it gets them through another day at junior high they will do it. All men have to deal with this. Some DO quit too. Were they forced out by the patriarchy too? No they got sick of it. Maybe Magicamy got sick too. I get sick sometimes watching the community. That doesn't mean shit for sexism its just overall community of any video game is a bunch of 9 year old dickheads.
Someday you're going to realize women and men are equal and men generally have it worse than women. You know we have to lift everything, women have better educations, educational system works just for them and was toned down to be "less competition focused" neutering boys, women will be the breadwinners soon, more money, Hillary will be president in 2016, women get every decision in a legal battle, all custody of children, men dig every ditch, pave every road, mine all the gold, women will be the upper management in every Fortune 500 company by 2050.
Women get treated better in most times because at minimum because men want sex from them. Maybe your case? Men are usually seen as worthless until proven worthy but women are always worth something.
Women are better looking and can make more money for modeling and as singers and whatnot.
Its really apparent this is becoming a woman's world and so I would just relax on needing to defend women so much.
Piegasm, why do you hold women to such unbelievable esteem? I mean you take it so far, its like you have formed them into some angel or maybe even more pure and unattainable. When men have witchhunts they have to leave the scene too, why don't you care about Hosty or RDU? RDU/Hosty have just as much evidence of cheating as Magicamy. You don't acknowledge that. Only difference is Hosty and RDU have refused to leave the scene entirely. RDU even fought back to become a decent player just getting 4th place in Kinguin.
If Magicamy fought back she would be in RDU's position. If she doesn't want the fame then that is HER choice. Not "Penis Patrols" choice. Because its a woman though they need special protections from trolls and special protections. If women are superior to men then why do they need special treatment?
Anyway who cares because she sure didn't or she would at least fight for it. Why you want to fight for someone who won't fight back is really puzzling. Its the internet man, its not like we are ever going to gather a grand jury together and try Hiram Lee in a court of law, this is literally all we have to go on is accusations and how people react to the accusations. She reacted like Ben Affleck in Gone Girl.
When RDU got Hi Mom incident he didn't back down from the scene but people still mock him for Hi Mom. Hosty is all but changing his name to Ghosty because of his incident. Its insane to believe men all want women out when men get treated like crap too. That's the thing your type doesn't get, men get so much bullshit too, its not a campaign against women its a job hazard of being a online gamer.
People online have a "douche entitlement" they feel like it is their God given right to mock and tear down streamers. If it gets them through another day at junior high they will do it. All men have to deal with this. Some DO quit too. Were they forced out by the patriarchy too? No they got sick of it. Maybe Magicamy got sick too. I get sick sometimes watching the community. That doesn't mean shit for sexism its just overall community of any video game is a bunch of 9 year old dickheads.
Someday you're going to realize women and men are equal and men generally have it worse than women. You know we have to lift everything, women have better educations, educational system works just for them and was toned down to be "less competition focused" neutering boys, women will be the breadwinners soon, more money, Hillary will be president in 2016, women get every decision in a legal battle, all custody of children, men dig every ditch, pave every road, mine all the gold, women will be the upper management in every Fortune 500 company by 2050.
Women get treated better in most times because at minimum because men want sex from them. Maybe your case? Men are usually seen as worthless until proven worthy but women are always worth something.
Women are better looking and can make more money for modeling and as singers and whatnot.
Its really apparent this is becoming a woman's world and so I would just relax on needing to defend women so much.
Piegasm, why do you hold women to such unbelievable esteem? I mean you take it so far, its like you have formed them into some angel or maybe even more pure and unattainable. When men have witchhunts they have to leave the scene too, why don't you care about Hosty or RDU? RDU/Hosty have just as much evidence of cheating as Magicamy. You don't acknowledge that. Only difference is Hosty and RDU have refused to leave the scene entirely. RDU even fought back to become a decent player just getting 4th place in Kinguin.
If Magicamy fought back she would be in RDU's position. If she doesn't want the fame then that is HER choice. Not "Penis Patrols" choice. Because its a woman though they need special protections from trolls and special protections. If women are superior to men then why do they need special treatment?
Anyway who cares because she sure didn't or she would at least fight for it. Why you want to fight for someone who won't fight back is really puzzling. Its the internet man, its not like we are ever going to gather a grand jury together and try Hiram Lee in a court of law, this is literally all we have to go on is accusations and how people react to the accusations. She reacted like Ben Affleck in Gone Girl.
When RDU got Hi Mom incident he didn't back down from the scene but people still mock him for Hi Mom. Hosty is all but changing his name to Ghosty because of his incident. Its insane to believe men all want women out when men get treated like crap too. That's the thing your type doesn't get, men get so much bullshit too, its not a campaign against women its a job hazard of being a online gamer.
People online have a "douche entitlement" they feel like it is their God given right to mock and tear down streamers. If it gets them through another day at junior high they will do it. All men have to deal with this. Some DO quit too. Were they forced out by the patriarchy too? No they got sick of it. Maybe Magicamy got sick too. I get sick sometimes watching the community. That doesn't mean shit for sexism its just overall community of any video game is a bunch of 9 year old dickheads.
Someday you're going to realize women and men are equal and men generally have it worse than women. You know we have to lift everything, women have better educations, educational system works just for them and was toned down to be "less competition focused" neutering boys, women will be the breadwinners soon, more money, Hillary will be president in 2016, women get every decision in a legal battle, all custody of children, men dig every ditch, pave every road, mine all the gold, women will be the upper management in every Fortune 500 company by 2050.
Women get treated better in most times because at minimum because men want sex from them. Maybe your case? Men are usually seen as worthless until proven worthy but women are always worth something.
Women are better looking and can make more money for modeling and as singers and whatnot.
Its really apparent this is becoming a woman's world and so I would just relax on needing to defend women so much.
7% of your post consists of the word 'women'
wtf? :D
Kinda difficult to talk about women without saying the word
On March 02 2015 02:27 rudimentalfeelthelov wrote: The other real question is why this topic isn't locked yet, the discussion on last 10 or so pages is utterly ridiculous.
Ya I stopped posting after it was clear that people weren't reading/responding to actual salient arguments but just trolling each other.
Then we get a real life Men's Right's activist posting about how hard it is being a man... and I think it's time to unsubscribe from this thread.
On March 01 2015 23:52 Penlievskiov wrote: The real question is; Why is piegasm not banned yet? Are these pages even modded? It's a bit hard to report cause no one has that option (yet). Kadaver should be set to LiquidHearth duty
On March 01 2015 23:52 Penlievskiov wrote: The real question is; Why is piegasm not banned yet? Are these pages even modded? It's a bit hard to report cause no one has that option (yet). Kadaver should be set to LiquidHearth duty
i really dislike the guy, and the idea that he is a moral champion for women's rights after what he did with legendarylea is laughable, but he makes a few good points.
It's not a baseless accusation and personally the people who are suggesting that Is possible did not accuse 100%
If this was civil court I would deem her guilty (not beyond reasonable doubt) but not if it was criminal court. The thing some people who are defending don't realize is she has already demonstrated she is a liar. Furthermore some of the evidence definitely makes her look more guilty than innocent.
Yea and the fact reynad made it a sex issue is silly. This has little to do with that fact she is a woman and probably more magicamy is a dishonest lowlife who deserved what she got. The fact she was a female hearthstone player is only important because she was able to get away with duplicitous behavior. Why reynad wanted to even affiliate with this person in the first place is beyond me.
And what I think the fact she decided to quit hearthstone only tends more to the accusation. If I was in fact not actually playing the game and lying that is the way I would leave in order to maintain doubt I was guilty amongst the community.
i really dislike the guy, and the idea that he is a moral champion for women's rights after what he did with legendarylea is laughable, but he makes a few good points.
hey look, I think reynad made some very good points too. While I still perceive that it is more likely than not that Amy is a fraud, I am open to the very real possibility that she is genuine. It really doesn't take much to turn many opinions around - and I hope she does it if she is indeed innocent.
i really dislike the guy, and the idea that he is a moral champion for women's rights after what he did with legendarylea is laughable, but he makes a few good points.
hey look, I think reynad made some very good points too. While I still perceive that it is more likely than not that Amy is a fraud, I am open to the very real possibility that she is genuine. It really doesn't take much to turn many opinions around - and I hope she does it if she is indeed innocent.
his good points are "hey they threw money at a girl on the internet, what did they expect". As if that would justify potential theft. And ignore the fact that the potential thief and the person distrusted by the community are one and the same. And even though I like to watch his stream from time to time to get my healthy dose of salt I can't believe that he is so double-faced. He was the one to march ahead of reddit with a torch in his hand, trying to burn RDU at the stake. He did the very same thing he now hates the community for, except that in this case there is more circumstancial evidence. Also the countless times he shittalks LegendaryLea (with or without reason, point is, he does).
Oh, and I don't think most people hate MagicAmy or want to see her gone. Probably the majority just wanted to finally see her in an offline tournament and was disappointed when she once again eluded one. Which is also all the people asked for really.
On March 01 2015 23:52 Penlievskiov wrote: The real question is; Why is piegasm not banned yet? Are these pages even modded? It's a bit hard to report cause no one has that option (yet). Kadaver should be set to LiquidHearth duty
Ok . The fact that were no proofs found doesnt mean she didnt do all those things. Second if someone sais you are fake then you try to prove them wrong, not give up. concede is never an option....
There was a time when in history that when 3 people said a thing was true it made it true. I hoped we, as civilized people, moved beyond that, yet if this thread is any indication we simply have not.
Thankfully, though, most of society is not like a big high school where gossip and rumors can prove anything.
On March 03 2015 11:32 BarrelLolz wrote: It's not a baseless accusation and personally the people who are suggesting that Is possible did not accuse 100%
If this was civil court I would deem her guilty (not beyond reasonable doubt) but not if it was criminal court. The thing some people who are defending don't realize is she has already demonstrated she is a liar. Furthermore some of the evidence definitely makes her look more guilty than innocent.
I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you've never actually been involved with a civil case. A -> B -> Z doesn't work outside of this thread.
i really dislike the guy, and the idea that he is a moral champion for women's rights after what he did with legendarylea is laughable, but he makes a few good points.
hey look, I think reynad made some very good points too. While I still perceive that it is more likely than not that Amy is a fraud, I am open to the very real possibility that she is genuine. It really doesn't take much to turn many opinions around - and I hope she does it if she is indeed innocent.
his good points are "hey they threw money at a girl on the internet, what did they expect". As if that would justify potential theft. And ignore the fact that the potential thief and the person distrusted by the community are one and the same.
I still don't understand how people keep saying this makes her a thief. Celerity wasn't robbed or coerced or extorted. Neither was anyone else. Based on what I heard went down, she's not someone I would want to be involved with but that hardly makes her a thief.
the funny thing is that the only thing she was accused of related to HS was that a male was playing for her, and all of the so-called investigations have shown no evidence that a male was playing for her. the rest of it--even were we to assume it is true--shows that she may be a despicable liar, but none of it shows that a male was playing for her.
as for her proving that a male was not playing for her, the difficulty of proving such is enormous since you a proving a negative. moreover, even if she showed up at a live event and won, people can still question, or lost, people can still question. savjz went 0-3 in the first round of the finals; maybe a female secretly is playing on his account, maybe its monk! further, she did present evidence to the only people that matter in this instance, her team. she has no obligation to provide it to anyone else.
at the end of the day, i highly question whether she is as good as originally thought and whether she actually played the games, but am forced to admit there is no actual evidence that it was anyone other than her that was playing at ESL, etc.
its sad that she will no longer be playing (assuming it was her), but its even sadder the extent that people are willing to use every opportunity possible to destroy someone else's character on the internet (true or not). her former boyfriends or whatever they are and her former employer are assholes for what they did regardless of the truth of their allegations. private matters should remain private--especially with an employer (what a shady fucking organization).
further, she did present evidence to the only people that matter in this instance, her team. she has no obligation to provide it to anyone else.
Okay, now that's interesting...can you back that up with a quote or something? Because as far as I can tell from the statement the only thing TempoStorm said was "we can't find any evidence to prove this". They did not say "she has presented evidence to the contrary". They're two quite different things.
If she HAS presented them with evidence then that should really be front and centre on any discussion but all I'm seeing is people yelling at each other.
further, she did present evidence to the only people that matter in this instance, her team. she has no obligation to provide it to anyone else.
Okay, now that's interesting...can you back that up with a quote or something? Because as far as I can tell from the statement the only thing TempoStorm said was "we can't find any evidence to prove this". They did not say "she has presented evidence to the contrary". They're two quite different things.
If she HAS presented them with evidence then that should really be front and centre on any discussion but all I'm seeing is people yelling at each other.
tempostorm said it in their press release and reynad said it in the video i posted above (iirc). she cooperated with the investigation and provided them information.
further, she did present evidence to the only people that matter in this instance, her team. she has no obligation to provide it to anyone else.
Okay, now that's interesting...can you back that up with a quote or something? Because as far as I can tell from the statement the only thing TempoStorm said was "we can't find any evidence to prove this". They did not say "she has presented evidence to the contrary". They're two quite different things.
If she HAS presented them with evidence then that should really be front and centre on any discussion but all I'm seeing is people yelling at each other.
tempostorm said it in their press release and reynad said it in the video i posted above (iirc). she cooperated with the investigation and provided them information.
Its explicitly not in the press release, which is why I was asking. I checked before writing that post. Their press release stated that they couldn't find any evidence that she had falsified her abilities by having someone else play on her account but didn't say that she'd provided any evidence to the contrary (i.e. that she is as good as she claims to be). Hence my surprise at your comment. Direct quotes:
Hyerim’s performance and accomplishments as a player have been called into question due to the possibility of account boosting and win trading.
...
We looked into this issue as far as we could, but were not able to produce proof that someone else was responsible for any of her high legend rank finishes. The only people who truly know the answer are Blizzard and the involved individuals.
And:
This finding also relates to the alleged botting allegations, because we could not figure out exactly how her account remained untouched throughout the ban waves despite its high profile and activity. Again, whether she is clear of these allegations or not is an issue that we cannot determine, It would require action to be taken on Blizzard’s end to determine the matter.
Maybe there's something in the video. Guess I'll take a look.
further, she did present evidence to the only people that matter in this instance, her team. she has no obligation to provide it to anyone else.
Okay, now that's interesting...can you back that up with a quote or something? Because as far as I can tell from the statement the only thing TempoStorm said was "we can't find any evidence to prove this". They did not say "she has presented evidence to the contrary". They're two quite different things.
If she HAS presented them with evidence then that should really be front and centre on any discussion but all I'm seeing is people yelling at each other.
From the Tempo Storm statement:
We went through great lengths to cross reference travel records, personal information, and testimonies of accounts from her recent past. The personal information she has given us, combined with her employment records with Lunarch Studios, relationships with players, and the fact that she has met people face-to-face is enough to confirm her identity.
further, she did present evidence to the only people that matter in this instance, her team. she has no obligation to provide it to anyone else.
Okay, now that's interesting...can you back that up with a quote or something? Because as far as I can tell from the statement the only thing TempoStorm said was "we can't find any evidence to prove this". They did not say "she has presented evidence to the contrary". They're two quite different things.
If she HAS presented them with evidence then that should really be front and centre on any discussion but all I'm seeing is people yelling at each other.
tempostorm said it in their press release and reynad said it in the video i posted above (iirc). she cooperated with the investigation and provided them information.
Its explicitly not in the press release, which is why I was asking. I checked before writing that post. Their press release stated that they couldn't find any evidence that she had falsified her abilities by having someone else play on her account but didn't say that she'd provided any evidence to the contrary (i.e. that she is as good as she claims to be). Hence my surprise at your comment. Direct quotes:
Hyerim’s performance and accomplishments as a player have been called into question due to the possibility of account boosting and win trading.
...
We looked into this issue as far as we could, but were not able to produce proof that someone else was responsible for any of her high legend rank finishes. The only people who truly know the answer are Blizzard and the involved individuals.
This finding also relates to the alleged botting allegations, because we could not figure out exactly how her account remained untouched throughout the ban waves despite its high profile and activity. Again, whether she is clear of these allegations or not is an issue that we cannot determine, It would require action to be taken on Blizzard’s end to determine the matter.
Maybe there's something in the video. Guess I'll take a look.
im very confused what you are looking for. it says she provided information as part of the investigation and answered all of their questions.
further, she did present evidence to the only people that matter in this instance, her team. she has no obligation to provide it to anyone else.
Okay, now that's interesting...can you back that up with a quote or something? Because as far as I can tell from the statement the only thing TempoStorm said was "we can't find any evidence to prove this". They did not say "she has presented evidence to the contrary". They're two quite different things.
If she HAS presented them with evidence then that should really be front and centre on any discussion but all I'm seeing is people yelling at each other.
tempostorm said it in their press release and reynad said it in the video i posted above (iirc). she cooperated with the investigation and provided them information.
Its explicitly not in the press release, which is why I was asking. I checked before writing that post. Their press release stated that they couldn't find any evidence that she had falsified her abilities by having someone else play on her account but didn't say that she'd provided any evidence to the contrary (i.e. that she is as good as she claims to be). Hence my surprise at your comment. Direct quotes:
Hyerim’s performance and accomplishments as a player have been called into question due to the possibility of account boosting and win trading.
...
We looked into this issue as far as we could, but were not able to produce proof that someone else was responsible for any of her high legend rank finishes. The only people who truly know the answer are Blizzard and the involved individuals.
This finding also relates to the alleged botting allegations, because we could not figure out exactly how her account remained untouched throughout the ban waves despite its high profile and activity. Again, whether she is clear of these allegations or not is an issue that we cannot determine, It would require action to be taken on Blizzard’s end to determine the matter.
Maybe there's something in the video. Guess I'll take a look.
What evidence do you imagine there would be beyond Blizzard not taking action on these things? The double standard is just incredible. Specialist posts this outlandish, nonsensical conspiracy theory and people accept it uncritically and then place all the responsibility on MagicAmy to disprove these ridiculous claims. If some of you people applied this standard of evidence to your every day lives you'd find it incredibly difficult to function on a daily basis. You'd believe all the most ridiculous things you read and heard while demanding to see receipts and security video footage if someone claimed to have gone to the grocery store.
EPT
