EPTMage common secret:
When one a friendly minion dies add 2 copies to your hand.
New Mage Card: Duplicate
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Sumadin
Denmark588 Posts
Mage common secret: When one a friendly minion dies add 2 copies to your hand. | ||
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Sumadin
Denmark588 Posts
EDIT: Seems like a mod fixed it. Thank you. | ||
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wUndertUnge
United States1125 Posts
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Mortal
2943 Posts
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TAMinator
Australia2706 Posts
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
Blizzard, mage needs card draw, not shitty secret that opponent can exploit. Dare I say the worst class card that was announced. On May 30 2014 00:18 TAMinator wrote: Leeroy combos incoming If secret can be activated during your turn. | ||
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S1eth
Austria221 Posts
It has the benefit of being a secret and making your opponent make suboptimal plays. What minions would you want 2 of? Loot hoarder? Thalnos? Azure Drake? Charge minion? 6 Leper Gnomes deck? | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
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Sumadin
Denmark588 Posts
On May 30 2014 00:18 TAMinator wrote: Leeroy combos incoming Just remember that secrets don't work on your own turn anymore. So I doupt it will be as potent as those combos of other classes. I personally think this will be strongest in secret mage decks. Really good value with Kirin Tor Mage while also not being too slow with that card. | ||
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Maand
326 Posts
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
I think this secret will be fun to play with but I don't think it will help mage at all in constructed, which is where they need the help. I think this could be extremely potent in arena. | ||
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
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Elmo1191
Bulgaria0 Posts
I like this card's combo with Ethereal Arcanist. If he's your only minion on the field, you have to kill him otherwise he just keeps getting bigger, and if you kill him the mage will just get 2 more of them. That makes silence the only painless way of dealing with him. I think the scary thing now is that mage will have 6 secrets that are all very different from one another. I think a secrets mage deck will be very, very difficult to play against now. | ||
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cha0sunity
United States7 Posts
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
Frustrated??? :D | ||
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kolst
United States13 Posts
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ratbert
Germany1041 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
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Mortal
2943 Posts
On May 30 2014 00:42 ratbert wrote: i dont think you'll end up with double rag, double archmage or whatever in your hand a lot of the time. how often do these get hard removed as opposed to transformed into something else (Polymorph, Hex) and then killed? you'll be more likely to end up with 2 Sheep or 2 Frogs in your hand you're correct if you're playing against one of those 2 classes. there are, however, 7 others without the ability to cheek the mechanic in this way. | ||
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tomnov
Israel148 Posts
edit: LOL I got sniped  | ||
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furo
Germany449 Posts
might be good with some carddraw cards if you can get the combo off. you cant play this + rag for example at the same turn, so its worthless for really powerfull stuff. | ||
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S1eth
Austria221 Posts
On May 30 2014 00:42 ratbert wrote: i dont think you'll end up with double rag, double archmage or whatever in your hand a lot of the time. how often do these get hard removed as opposed to transformed into something else (Polymorph, Hex) and then killed? you'll be more likely to end up with 2 Sheep or 2 Frogs in your hand The Duplicate was actually Counterspell. Now what? | ||
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DifuntO
Greece2376 Posts
On May 30 2014 00:22 Sumadin wrote: Just remember that secrets don't work on your own turn anymore. So I doupt it will be as potent as those combos of other classes. I personally think this will be strongest in secret mage decks. Really good value with Kirin Tor Mage while also not being too slow with that card. Play Leeory.Opponent kills him next turn and now you have two Leeroys on your turn.Seems like a decent play. Anyway,i don't know how good this card is gonna be overall.I guess it would be great to have 4 Water Elementals in your deck instead of 2 but you might lose tempo trying to get value out of this card.It's similar to the new Rogue card in that regard. I'm sure we'll see some new mage decks and also seems like a solid card in arena. | ||
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
On May 30 2014 00:48 furo wrote: seems weak since activated on enemies turn only and tempoloss. might be good with some carddraw cards if you can get the combo off. you cant play this + rag for example at the same turn, so its worthless for really powerfull stuff. You can combo it with Antonidas. Which would be lousy vs Mage or Shaman due to poly/hex, but in every other control matchup would pretty much just win you the game. However, a big turn 10 play is just really slow in the current meta...I expect that if it gets used, its primary value will be in huge tempo swings when comboed with kirin tor mage on turn 3 (or turn 2 with the coin). | ||
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RoranRock
France294 Posts
And this is very card efficiant in arena, always 1 card played, 2 earned. So more card adventage for the OP Arena class :/ | ||
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ratbert
Germany1041 Posts
On May 30 2014 00:46 Mortal wrote: you're correct if you're playing against one of those 2 classes. there are, however, 7 others without the ability to cheek the mechanic in this way. well, as always theres plenty of ways imaginable to play around a secret (as it should be) another example: play leeroy and kill a whelp first with your hero abilty or whatever. we'll see how practical the secret and it's counters are | ||
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ratbert
Germany1041 Posts
On May 30 2014 00:48 S1eth wrote: The Duplicate was actually Counterspell. Now what? shaman has pretty good low cost spells to test for counterspell and spellbender dude e: so does mage. and sometimes you even have the Coin to test.... | ||
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GoSuChicken
Germany1726 Posts
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BlacKcuD
Germany107 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10363811_486871498079202_5362533041389480162_n.jpg) Source | ||
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S1eth
Austria221 Posts
On May 30 2014 00:50 Nekovivie wrote: Wonder how it will handle multiple death situations like flamestrike. Probably just totally fucking random like Syl v Syl. The same way Redemption works. On May 30 2014 00:55 GoSuChicken wrote: Still seems better than the Paladin one to be honest Paladin secret is a flame imp without the battlecry. I don't know why people underestimate this card so much. | ||
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GoSuChicken
Germany1726 Posts
This just reminded me of why I do not play Hearthstone in German. The translations just sound so weird... | ||
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
Which is how? | ||
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DifuntO
Greece2376 Posts
How does Redemption work? I never understood that. | ||
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S1eth
Austria221 Posts
http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/hearthstone/381-myth-busted-redemption-revive-minion-randomly | ||
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ratbert
Germany1041 Posts
On May 30 2014 01:01 GoSuChicken wrote: This just reminded me of why I do not play Hearthstone in German. The translations just sound so weird... "Diener" ... *shudders* | ||
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Anthimox
Greece0 Posts
I'm trying to see the deck that will use it. A slow control mage usually has plenty of cards in hand and no time to play them all. I don't think a control mage will want to use 3 mana for a secret for a a chance to take 2 minion cards in his hand. I don't know if somehow aggro mage could use the card. I could see them play one, so that late game wolfriders and arcance golems can be a serious threat. Overall I believe the guys at Hearthstone are doing a great job. Being a top Mtg player helps me evaluate cards in other card games pretty easily. But this time I really can't possibly tell if some Naxxramas cards are playable. | ||
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
If Etheral Arcanist was a 4/4, I think running a secrets deck would be way more viable. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
On May 30 2014 01:10 weikor wrote: turn 3 secret, turn 4 leeroy. Seems strong no? So you waste turn 3 and use fireball in turn 4 while they put up harvest golem and senjin. | ||
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GoingGoingGone
Slovakia529 Posts
On May 30 2014 01:10 weikor wrote: turn 3 secret, turn 4 leeroy. Seems strong no? Taunt up your whelps with Defender and watch him either waste removal on them, suicide his Leeroy or play a different creature. :D Anyway, it's a secret, and I don't think Mage really needed that (same as with the new Pally secret). But at least it looks playable, in Arena, at the very least. Or maybe som midrange Mage deck? | ||
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
Needs benny hill theme. | ||
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Elmo1191
Bulgaria0 Posts
On May 30 2014 01:11 awesomoecalypse wrote: Honestly, I'd really like to see a buff to Etheral Arcanist. Right now it competes directly with stuff like Water Elemental and Yeti, (not to mention fireball and polymorph) and it really doesn't measure up at all. Given how underwhelming secret keeper tends to be, and Kirin Tor Mage is really the only Secret-Themed minion worth a damn. If Etheral Arcanist was a 4/4, I think running a secrets deck would be way more viable. I completely agree. The biggest problem with mage secrets deck is that the combo of a secret + Ethereal Arcanist that was meant to be very strong is super late. Playing Etherial Arcanist turn 4 without a secret is super underwhelming, playing a secret turn 3 is highly unlikely that the secret will remain on the field one more turn for the Ethereal Arcanist turn 4, unless it's an Ice Block. So the combo has to be executed at turn 7 when a silencable 5/5 is not that significant. Mage probably has the most powerful, and rightfully so, most expensive secrets and the 4 mana cost Ethereal Arcanist is too expensive. Blizz fix plz! | ||
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
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Jinault
Ireland0 Posts
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pjc8513
20 Posts
I'm starting to feel bad for Blizzard, can't win. Every card they release will either be not powerful enough or too powerful. ggwp. | ||
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BlacKcuD
Germany107 Posts
On May 30 2014 01:37 Jinault wrote: It's no worse than Arcane Intellect. Except that your opponent knows which two cards you got. If you know which minions are in the closer selection of getting played during the upcoming turns, you can sometimes adjust your health/damage values accordingly when buffing/trading/healing/nuking in order to force your opponent into suboptimal trades. On May 30 2014 01:58 pjc8513 wrote: I'm starting to feel bad for Blizzard, can't win. Every card they release will either be not powerful enough or too powerful. ggwp. S2 games (the people who developed Heroes of Newerth (MOBA)) solved this problem by continuously introducing new heroes (way more than are being released for LoL or Dota2). At some point, the players couldn't ban all of them. They had to play with some of the new ones, they had to experiment, and find new combinations. Over time, the meta shifted on a monthly basis and at that time, no MOBA hat such an everchanging meta and build diversity than HoN. Since Hearthstone is a very young game and since Blizzard has very high quality standards, the amount of cards will increase at a very slow pace. Be patient, but also know that probably no card that's coming up will make the game unplayable. | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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Rogomatic
United States0 Posts
On May 30 2014 00:16 wUndertUnge wrote: Oh my wow. That seems pretty powerful Not so powerful when you realize they changed secrets a while ago to only trigger on opposing player's turn. On May 30 2014 02:27 Zaros wrote: "We have many secrets." Come to the dark side... we have secrets. | ||
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Rogomatic
United States0 Posts
On May 30 2014 00:33 Elmo1191 wrote: I like this card's combo with Ethereal Arcanist. If he's your only minion on the field, you have to kill him otherwise he just keeps getting bigger, and if you kill him the mage will just get 2 more of them. That makes silence the only painless way of dealing with him. Well, between that and turning him into a frog or a sheep, it should be plenty. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
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jubil
United States2602 Posts
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Doctor Faustus
United States0 Posts
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
On May 30 2014 03:34 Doctor Faustus wrote: Mages with this and 4 attack minions will be a nightmare to play against as Priest... Then maybe you should kill creatures with other creatures, like every other class. Instead of relying on insta-kill cards. | ||
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S1eth
Austria221 Posts
On May 30 2014 03:38 Zenbrez wrote: Then maybe you should kill creatures with other creatures, like every other class. Instead of relying on insta-kill cards. no other class does that. | ||
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Came Norrection
Canada168 Posts
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cha0sunity
United States7 Posts
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furo
Germany449 Posts
pala does that :D | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
Comboing it with more expensive stuff, except maybe Antonidas, really doesn't seem viable. Even if you get 2 Ragnaros out of the deal, you still have to play them, and thats going to very slow and eat up your next few turns. Most of the time you'll probably just die first. | ||
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NoIntestines
United States35 Posts
There's some possible synergy with battlecries and deathrattles and such, but it's still taking a tempo hit and hoping your opponent plays into it. And I guess control decks could run it to get free copies of big stuff, but that would mean hanging on to Cairne, etc, until turn 9, which doesn't seem worth it. Also, if you have multiple minions die to an AoE spell, which one gets duplicated? I really wish Blizzard would print up a comprehensive rule set and iron this stuff out. | ||
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Doctor Faustus
United States0 Posts
On May 30 2014 03:38 Zenbrez wrote: Then maybe you should kill creatures with other creatures, like every other class. Instead of relying on insta-kill cards. What's with the personal attack? Sure I'm QQing a bit but it's not like I'm flaming you directly. Sheesh. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
On May 30 2014 04:46 Doctor Faustus wrote: What's with the personal attack? Sure I'm QQing a bit but it's not like I'm flaming you directly. Sheesh. Some people have a bizarre hatred of any class that plays differently from the normal "play minions along a normal mana curve while fighting for board control" playstyle--play Mage or Priest or any Miracle Deck, they hate it, play aggro and they hate it, play a big Combo deck and they hate it, etc. These people, however, have poor taste and lousy ideas, and should be ignored. | ||
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Glucose
United States1 Post
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On May 30 2014 05:09 Glucose wrote: I would think this works really with with early game minions -- like Mana Wyrm, and Bloodmage Thalnos. Thalnos especially. People rarely hard remove that since he has 1 health. Next round you can play +2 spell dmg and +2 more card draw. Seems pretty nice. Sounds nice, but in reality you're spending 2 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 9 mana to cycle 3 cards and maybe squeeze mild value out of the spell damage. My initial instinct is that the card combos well with kirin tor mage and sorcerer's apprentice, basically cards that greatly mitigate the tempo loss from playing the secret itself. | ||
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Fulla
United Kingdom519 Posts
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soverRR
Sweden348 Posts
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Crisco
1170 Posts
Empty Board: Turn 10 with Antonidas followed by Duplicate -> Short of a silence and ignoring the card until a new creature is dropped plenty of fireballs shall come | ||
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S1eth
Austria221 Posts
On May 30 2014 06:19 Crisco wrote: I could see it as a finisher: Empty Board: Turn 10 with Antonidas followed by Duplicate -> Short of a silence and ignoring the card until a new creature is dropped plenty of fireballs shall come If they kill your Antonidas, you can't ever replay him if you want to use one of your fireballs, though. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
are they kidding... this is insanely good mage giants / handmage incoming.. again you kill a giant, mage gets 2 more in his hand and probably at pretty cheap mana cost also since nerf, tinkmaster has been largely replaced by big game hunter, which still triggers the effect when it removes | ||
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AssumedNewb
France0 Posts
It obviously comboes with Kirin Tor Mage As anti aggro, Tazdingo + This secret may be efficient An important question is : will it trigger on tokens (Mirror Image, Gnoll from Hogger, ... ) ? Another is : will mage secrets create real doubt on what is the active secret ? If so it could be fun | ||
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The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
Or turn 5 secret + turn 6 cairne, Or turn 7 secret + turn 8 ragnaros I like this secret because it's at LEAST a 0 for 1 in term of card advantage. It fits my playstyle since I don't care about tempo and mana curve/value. When I build a deck I only consider card advantage and how much 2 for 1 I can force. That's why I like priest so much with cabal shadow priest,shadow madness, thoughtsteal mind control | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
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Doc Daneeka
United States577 Posts
the one good thing i can think of is that it provides some immunity to board clear, but i dunno if that's worth a slot in your deck. | ||
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SLYvi
Brazil0 Posts
On May 30 2014 04:06 awesomoecalypse wrote: The more I think about it, I think we may see this in Aggro Mage primarily, comboed with Kirin Tor Mage to make it into free card draw. Play lots of 1 and 2 drops, then Kirin Tor+Duplicate, and you make it pretty easy to keep up the pressure really well, because the 2 cards it gives you will be cheap drops perfect for an aggro strategy.. I didnt think on that before. good point. Also, could that card make secretkeeper viable? | ||
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Came Norrection
Canada168 Posts
On May 30 2014 06:19 Crisco wrote: I could see it as a finisher: Empty Board: Turn 10 with Antonidas followed by Duplicate -> Short of a silence and ignoring the card until a new creature is dropped plenty of fireballs shall come Then they faceless and own you, antonidas is crappy because faceless gets so much more value off him since they have 5 mana to work with for spells afterward. | ||
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Elmo1191
Bulgaria0 Posts
On May 30 2014 06:54 figq wrote: wat are they kidding... this is insanely good mage giants / handmage incoming.. again you kill a giant, mage gets 2 more in his hand and probably at pretty cheap mana cost also since nerf, tinkmaster has been largely replaced by big game hunter, which still triggers the effect when it removes I didn't think of that. In a giants mage this could actually be pretty cool. I can imagine some sort of giants secrets mage deck making an appearance. I'm sure more ideas will flow as the patch comes out. And now that i've thought about it more, i think this card is another proof of my theory about blizzard's idea with all these cards. With all the new class cards they're trying to encourage the usage of other underused class cards and there are a lot of them. Right now i think the most underused cards mage has are the secrets. With this secret i think experimentation with secrets mages will be in full force, giants or aggro. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
Honestly I don't think its that great, it is a 2 for 2 after all. | ||
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Sutty
0 Posts
The possibility is turn 7 leeroy, turn 8 leeroy+leeroy = 18 damage right there. Add this with fireballs, polymorphs and cheap silences to remove taunts, and you have plenty of damage possibility. 2 cards combo needed for 18 damage over turn 7 and 8. That is what would happen in constructed. Maybe some fancy Molten Giant and Taunt plays as well. Who knows? | ||
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Doc Daneeka
United States577 Posts
that's not to say this wouldn't be a good play in a deck that happens to have both this new card and leeroy, but i think the deck would have to be able to function without that combo going off. so what is the rest of the deck designed to do, and how is this card useable outside of that specific combo? i suppose it would have to be an aggro deck so you can duplicate cheap minions and keep the pressure up, and that deck could easily also run leeroy... but what two cards did you take out for the two duplicates, and is the off chance of wrecking the opponent with this combo better than those two cards? that's not a rhetorical question, by the way, i'm genuinely curious. as with all these cards we won't know for sure until people have a chance to actually play them. | ||
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Sutty
0 Posts
In terms of deck balance - Well, you'd just waste 3 cards in your deck as this finisher (x2 secret, x1 Leeroy), Druids waste as much cards on savage roar + tree-charge combos in their decks. It's also not as if the Mages don't have good ways to remove little minions other than flamestrike; Even little-played cards like Arcane Explosion, Arcane Missiles, Cone of Cold etc aren't useless, especially when coupled with spell power or Auctioneer. There'd be no need for a mage to go too YOLO or combo-wombo at any rate, just pick a balanced deck, and use the combo as a massive finisher. | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
very strong 'card advantage' card as it not only draws it actually increases your deck size by 2. Looking at my current deck (DuckwingFACE type mage) and thinking would I replace my Arcane Intellect with this, I think so. Also if you can force a situation where it activates on Kirin Tor Mage or Ethereal Arcanist you might just get a secret mage deck to work. But the problem remains as with all other secrets, they are often a dead card in your hand ( literally dead if you have that secret already up ) and at 3 mana are quite a tempo loss. Still definitely worth testing. | ||
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thirtyapm
521 Posts
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
What is a class like warrior really going to do vs this and a sunwalker on the field, next turn mage just plays another one, then another. In constructed it faces the same problem as thoughtsteal. Its very good in a control matchup, as it increases your card size, but its also terrible if you draw 2 sheeps. Mage already beeing by far the strongest arena class, i feel this card shouldnt be what it is. | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
On May 30 2014 16:42 S_SienZ wrote: Duplicate + Kirin Tor Mage + Yetis = So much Priest Rage. Oh my god, that is some insane turn 3 & 4 play. | ||
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NovaTheFeared
United States7222 Posts
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
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S1eth
Austria221 Posts
On May 30 2014 19:02 Jayme wrote: I can kind of see the value to this card I guess. However I fucking hate it. I want cards to synergize better and allow me to draw cards without having to use fucking Coldlight Oracle in my freeze deck. Now you can have 6 Coldlight Oracles in your deck. | ||
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Elmo1191
Bulgaria0 Posts
On May 30 2014 15:49 weikor wrote: Still seems like a pretty stupid card to implement. This is a godly card in the arena, where people cant choose hard removal or their class (funnily the strongest counter to this card is mage and shaman, now possibly druid) What is a class like warrior really going to do vs this and a sunwalker on the field, next turn mage just plays another one, then another. In constructed it faces the same problem as thoughtsteal. Its very good in a control matchup, as it increases your card size, but its also terrible if you draw 2 sheeps. Mage already beeing by far the strongest arena class, i feel this card shouldnt be what it is. Poison seeds destroys minions and replaces them with treants, not transforms minions into treants. There's a difference And yep this card gives me a lot of concerns regarding arena. There is already the joke flying around of Arena = Spend 150 gold, play vs a mage... the joke is real!~ BTW i don't think the argument for this card being a tempo loss is a strong one in the context of a mage. Mage is probably the best class at playing from being behind on tempo. Between her hero ability, Frostbolt, Fireball, Polymorph, Flamestrike... hell often times a turn 4 Water Elemental is as strong as all the tempo advantage your opponent managed to aquire in the early game. Control mage values card advantage over tempo advantage most of the time so this card will be pretty good for that. Just having 4 Water Elementals in your deck is very strong you don't need crazy Leeroy combos. | ||
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hotcoco
United Arab Emirates20 Posts
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On May 31 2014 00:23 hotcoco wrote: Do you guys think it's like faceless manipulator copies? Like, it would copy added stats, even with a minion is silenced, stuff like that? Or are they just copies of the original card? Given the way hearthstone mechanics work, they're copies of the card. As if you'd brewmaster'd it twice instead of dying. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On May 31 2014 00:23 hotcoco wrote: Do you guys think it's like faceless manipulator copies? Like, it would copy added stats, even with a minion is silenced, stuff like that? Or are they just copies of the original card? It puts them in your hand, it obviously is the card the unit represents. I guess also if it's like a Squire it will be the card representing it even though you can't really have it as a card. | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On May 31 2014 00:40 Shikyo wrote: It puts them in your hand, it obviously is the card the unit represents. I guess also if it's like a Squire it will be the card representing it even though you can't really have it as a card. All of the minions have cards. They just aren't collectable cards. | ||
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Lumi
United States1612 Posts
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AssumedNewb
France0 Posts
On May 30 2014 15:49 weikor wrote: Still seems like a pretty stupid card to implement. This is a godly card in the arena, where people cant choose hard removal or their class (funnily the strongest counter to this card is mage and shaman, now possibly druid) What is a class like warrior really going to do vs this and a sunwalker on the field, next turn mage just plays another one, then another. Mage already beeing by far the strongest arena class, i feel this card shouldnt be what it is. The more I think of it, the more I agree Duplicate + Sunwalker or Tazdingo will wreck arena games Making Flamestrike rare would solve the issue, though, its rarity might be swapped with Kirin Tor Mage or Ethereal Arcanist | ||
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TAMinator
Australia2706 Posts
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On May 30 2014 00:22 Sumadin wrote: Just remember that secrets don't work on your own turn anymore. So I doupt it will be as potent as those combos of other classes. I personally think this will be strongest in secret mage decks. Really good value with Kirin Tor Mage while also not being too slow with that card. Doesn't have to trigger on your own turn. Just swing to their face with Leeroy and pass with the secret. If they leave Leeroy alive, you do 6 more damage. If they kill him, you can do upwards of 12 more. Works out pretty nicely manacurve wise too turn 7 - leeroy + duplicate turn 8 - double leeroy It's pretty clunky though, dedicating two entire turns for 18 damage. Still, I could see aggro mages running one to combo with loot hoarders/leper gnomes/the dream leeroy. | ||
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Kickboxer
Slovenia1308 Posts
as a mage main I am woefully disappointed, meh. Like people already noted it will make mage even more pesky in arena and will do next to nothing for the class constructed aside from being a niche pick in aggro decks. Was really, really hoping for something similar to fan of knives or a strong & interesting 5-drop : / | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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ratbert
Germany1041 Posts
2 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 9 Mana. you get three 2/1 and draw (if opponent doesnt silence) 3 cards. would you do that? i don't know... e: Kripp's thoughts (video): + Show Spoiler + | ||
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dim2thesum
United States65 Posts
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faythscar
United States0 Posts
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Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
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GiveMeCake
148 Posts
On May 31 2014 08:56 ratbert wrote: if you do it with loot hoarders thats: 2 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 9 Mana. you get three 2/1 and draw (if opponent doesnt silence) 3 cards. would you do that? i don't know... e: Kripp's thoughts (video): + Show Spoiler + http://youtu.be/sbWpZJG8xVA I don't agree with the example at the end because Kripp had a Rag on the board in arena (not very common), he was playing mage (OP in arena) and had direct hard counter (Blizzard). On May 31 2014 12:18 Hryul wrote: from a value perspective this card seems weaker than faceless manipulator. so what's the reason to play it? . it's a secret, so it could be anything . it costs 2 mana less . it nets you an extra card you wouldn't normally be able to have, so your deck is 31 cards, or 32 cards if you're running 2. Should be useful in games where it gets slow (top decking, etc) | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
Kripp acts like he knows for sure this card is bad. It's fine to have the opinion that the card sucks but unlike regular 3 mana draw 2s, you do get high value cards which can make the mana deficit back. | ||
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ratbert
Germany1041 Posts
On May 31 2014 14:20 obesechicken13 wrote: There's quite a few tech cards I'd want to have multiples of like 2x big game hunters vs handlock and 2x blood knight vs zoo. Kripp acts like he knows for sure this card is bad. It's fine to have the opinion that the card sucks but unlike regular 3 mana draw 2s, you do get high value cards which can make the mana deficit back. are you still going to play your Argent Squires if you know he has 2 Blood Knights in his hand? | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
Sure, sometimes carddraw would be nice, but this is just something else. If you manage to draw something usefull, lets pick pretty common to have one of in an arena deck something like azure drake. Picture this in the later stages of the game, where both players are stuggling to keep value. For 2 cards you now have 3x 4/4 creature 3x Card drawn 3x spell damage | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On May 31 2014 17:21 jrkirby wrote: I think when kripp says it's bad, he means it's bad in arena. And I can definitely see that. However, I am sure it will see it's constructed use. There will be some legendary decks that use it (no idea how many). But there will be some. No, he literally means the opposite -- that it's bad in constructed, and viable in arena. If there are any legendary decks (currently) that would use it, it'd be aggro mage and aggro mage alone. Freeze mage scarcely plays minions, secret mage doesn't benefit from two extra minion cards, combo mage is just a worse version of aggro mage, and it's too anti-tempo for midrange/tempo mage. (not implying these decks are all legendary) | ||
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Fulla
United Kingdom519 Posts
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Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
On May 31 2014 13:23 GiveMeCake wrote: I don't agree with the example at the end because Kripp had a Rag on the board in arena (not very common), he was playing mage (OP in arena) and had direct hard counter (Blizzard). . it's a secret, so it could be anything . it costs 2 mana less . it nets you an extra card you wouldn't normally be able to have, so your deck is 31 cards, or 32 cards if you're running 2. Should be useful in games where it gets slow (top decking, etc) the 2 mana less is a false friend, because you actually have to replay the cards in your hand. I can see the additional card, but i'm really not sure if that's worth it. it's the same reason people cut Jaraxxus in handlock: sure, you get insane value two turns into the game, but it takes quite some time until it really affects the game. seems like an arena card more than anything. | ||
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Fi0na
0 Posts
It basically forces your opponent to attack your weaker minion every time you have a secret up, as he should not risk giving you the stronger minion twice on your hand. Yeah, you have to pay for those again, but no one likes to play against 4-6 Water Elementals, even if the mage payed 3 mana to get additional ones. Or get 1-shotted from hand with 2-3x Sorcerer's Apprentice. Or double Leeroy. I'm not saying play the card. I'm saying it significantly increases the value of other mage secrets | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
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XenOsky
Chile2244 Posts
On June 01 2014 03:38 Fi0na wrote: This card is amazing, but not the way people think: It basically forces your opponent to attack your weaker minion every time you have a secret up, as he should not risk giving you the stronger minion twice on your hand. Yeah, you have to pay for those again, but no one likes to play against 4-6 Water Elementals, even if the mage payed 3 mana to get additional ones. Or get 1-shotted from hand with 2-3x Sorcerer's Apprentice. Or double Leeroy. I'm not saying play the card. I'm saying it significantly increases the value of other mage secrets that's a really good analisis... | ||
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BlacKcuD
Germany107 Posts
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Elldar
Sweden287 Posts
Against hard removal: Assassinate, Shadow Word: Death, Naturalize, combo'd Eviscerate maybe, etc The opponent try to kill your big dude gets a 1/3 then the 1/3 get Duplicate. | ||
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jrkirby
United States1510 Posts
On June 01 2014 22:34 Elldar wrote: Doesn't this card suck with Spellbender? Against hard removal: Assassinate, Shadow Word: Death, Naturalize, combo'd Eviscerate maybe, etc The opponent try to kill your big dude gets a 1/3 then the 1/3 get Duplicate. Well the 1/3 minions are 0 mana though. So it's like 3 mana for 2x 1/3. Not terrible, but not the best. | ||
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Sutty
0 Posts
On June 01 2014 21:21 BlacKcuD wrote: This card is basically Thoughtsteal, but your opponent knows what you got. Yes, but you also know what you will get, unless of course the off chance the opponent has a hex/polymorph still in hand (Hence why I think it's less an aggro-mage style card, and more a mid-range sort of deck, that has multiple threats to play earlier and to use this as a finisher). I'd argue it is similar to Tracking, in that it is your choice which cards you duplicate. | ||
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SoulSever
Canada779 Posts
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On June 02 2014 02:29 weikor wrote: The problem with hex or polymorph is, you dont know what secret your opponent has put down and you cant always check for everything either. Theres no point trying to play around the card with hex and polymorph anyways. Which scenario is worse: Your opponent getting two additional loot hoarders, or not having a solution for their Antonidas? Your decision making doesn't change. | ||
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Advantageous
China1350 Posts
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Akathla
United States0 Posts
remember, there is a counter to whatever YOU are playing and SOMEONE is playing it | ||
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
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S1eth
Austria221 Posts
On June 04 2014 07:42 awesomoecalypse wrote: I wonder, if this summoned two copies of the destroyed creature, rather than put them in your hand, would that too big a tempo swing? It would be incredibly overpowered. You pay 5 mana to copy a minion (Faceless Manipulator) this would be 3 mana for 2 Faceless Manipulators. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
On June 04 2014 08:19 S1eth wrote: It would be incredibly overpowered. You pay 5 mana to copy a minion (Faceless Manipulator) this would be 3 mana for 2 Faceless Manipulators. Well, not necessarily. Faceless Manipulator is targeted, so it always copies the best minion on the board immediately. This would copy a minion effectively of your opponent's choosing, and only when they decide to trigger it. | ||
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pedduck
Thailand468 Posts
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fenson
0 Posts
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Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
On June 04 2014 13:29 pedduck wrote: I see someone said secret is not working on player turn. Is it true? so it will not work with my charge minion then? TT no it won't. blizzard changed it for exactly that reason, namely that they can introduce more powerful secrets. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
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CreareCopy
Norway0 Posts
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Snotling
Germany885 Posts
On July 30 2014 09:28 CreareCopy wrote: Duplicate worked great in a Secret Mage deck so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn-Gbu_8_eg You realise that dupicate had exactly ZERO effect on that game. You never even played the two Minions you got. EVERY other secret would have been better in that sutuation.... | ||
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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figq
12519 Posts
Of course, for board-presence strong legendaries, you could already duplicate them with Faceless. However, Faceless doesn't trigger battlecries. So essentially, if there are legendaries with really strong battlecries (more important than their body), then Duplicate > Faceless. I wonder if we will see such battlecry-heavy legendaries in the future. edit: ah well, pandas can bounce them back to hand just as well.. | ||
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Nekovivie
United Kingdom2599 Posts
This means it's too slow to use that way. Best case for duplicate will be Azure Drakes or similar I guess. | ||
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Plaid_Dragon
United States0 Posts
On July 30 2014 17:16 Nekovivie wrote: No offense but posting a game from rank 15 doesn't really demonstrate much. You can pretty much use any cards/decks at these ranks and see success. Careful. Even suggesting that people's opinions and mindsets are irrelevant based on their rank is a slippery slope. | ||
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convention
United States622 Posts
On July 30 2014 23:12 Plaid_Dragon wrote: Careful. Even suggesting that people's opinions and mindsets are irrelevant based on their rank is a slippery slope. He didn't say anything about opinions or mindsets, just that at rank 15 you can use a large variety of decks with cards that are not good. So winning a game at that level to show that a single card is good does not demonstrate much. There were no insults, there was just a statement that I think most people would agree with. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
On July 30 2014 17:38 Shikyo wrote: Duplicate comboes so well with Mad Scientist.. This. On its own, Duplicate is pretty meh. Its a massive, massive tempo loss to play on turn 3--worse even than arcane intellect, which at least gives you the card immediately. And while there is some potential to get 2 badass legendaries or whatever, the fact that your opponent chooses how to trigger it makes that sort of meh. But with Mad Scientist that changes dramatically. Mad Scientist can essentially be read as "play a random secret from your deck for 2 mana, and put a 2/2 body into play". Which completely mitigates the downside of Duplicate, meaning it comes with zero tempo loss, nor does it leave you down a card in hand until your opponent triggers it. It goes from being much worse than Arcane Intellect to much better. Turn 2 Mad Scientist, Turn 3 trade it and drop a decent 3 drop (or coin a yeti or water elemental) and your opponent is suddenly in an extremely awkward spot. | ||
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Eggi
478 Posts
You can never have enough leper gnomes! | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
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AHeroicKumquat
United Kingdom0 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
On July 31 2014 00:08 AHeroicKumquat wrote: who knows, mad scientist may make a secrets mage deck viable... maybe... if you have good rng... Just only run secrets that work with your deck concept and rng isn't really a factor. Personally, I think a deck running Mad Scientist, Kirin Tor Mage, Duplicate and Mirror Entity could get out of hand for the opponent incredibly fast. | ||
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AHeroicKumquat
United Kingdom0 Posts
On July 31 2014 00:59 awesomoecalypse wrote: Just only run secrets that work with your deck concept and rng isn't really a factor. Personally, I think a deck running Mad Scientist, Kirin Tor Mage, Duplicate and Mirror Image could get out of hand for the opponent incredibly fast. Wouldn't it be counterproductive to run mirror images along with duplicate, seems like it would be pretty terrible if you gave yourself two 0/2 taunts? But other than that, you're probably right, although in the current pool of secrets, i cant say i see an obvious theme between them, like, in a lot of situations you could just be suiciding your scientist and praying for one specific secret | ||
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Xathanael
United States0 Posts
On July 31 2014 01:07 AHeroicKumquat wrote: Wouldn't it be counterproductive to run mirror images along with duplicate, seems like it would be pretty terrible if you gave yourself two 0/2 taunts? But other than that, you're probably right, although in the current pool of secrets, i cant say i see an obvious theme between them, like, in a lot of situations you could just be suiciding your scientist and praying for one specific secret It looks like awesomoecalypse corrected himself while you were replying. Very interesting stuff ... | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
Its also gives you +1 card for mountain giant/azure twilight drake plays. You no longer have to be worried as much about silenced twilight drakes. T3 duplicate, T4 azure drake -> silenced owl -> opponent trades a 3 drop gives you +1 cards is pretty good. Another good target to duplicate would be thalnos. You could also make a taunt deck with mage. | ||
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Eggi
478 Posts
Getting 2 4/5/6 drops in hand is like. ummmm okay. because you dont want it to be a dead card for entire game and start using it turn 10. It will create an extra mind fuck though of which secret is it. Rise of secret mage? | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
Maybe duplicate Coldlight mill craziness. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
On July 31 2014 01:07 AHeroicKumquat wrote: Wouldn't it be counterproductive to run mirror images along with duplicate, seems like it would be pretty terrible if you gave yourself two 0/2 taunts? But other than that, you're probably right, although in the current pool of secrets, i cant say i see an obvious theme between them, like, in a lot of situations you could just be suiciding your scientist and praying for one specific secret I meant mirror entity, sorry. Basically, Mad Scientist that summons mirror entity is a 2/2+one of your opponent's minions for 2 mana and one card (since mad scientist summons the secret from your deck and plays it for free, it only costs 1 card from your hand). Mad Scientist that summons duplicate is a 2/2+minion only arcane intellect for 2 mana and one card. The Kirin Tor Mage combos aren't quite as insane as that, but they're still very solid and major tempo play. I dunno if "secret decks" in the sense of decks that just run all the secrets and all the cards keying off secrets will ever be viable. Some of those cards like Ethereal Arcanist and Secretkeeper still kinda suck, and many of those secrets don't really synergize that well with mad scientist and kirin tor mage (counterspell, for example, has minimal synergy with either). But I do think that duplicate and mirror entity specifically will combo really well with mad scientist, which will make Kirin Tor more attractive as well, and we'll start to see Mage decks running those specific cards to take a major tempo lead and build a crazy board presence before turn 4. | ||
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zumpp
0 Posts
Mostly the problem was that needed to control to board so I could trade on my turn and play duplicate and next turn play loatheb on empty board to get it duplicated. Agaisnt aggro it just bad when they are usually ignoring the minion, need to try it with sunfury protectors I guess. | ||
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Greendotz
United Kingdom2053 Posts
On July 31 2014 02:00 Eggi wrote: Rise of secret mage? With Mad Scientist I can definitely see it at least been tried. My experience with it is very limited but Duplicate has turned out a little better than I expected (I thought it would be worthless). | ||
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hokeypocus
United States15 Posts
He killed 3 minions when I had duplicate in play. I had Kirin Tor, loot hoarder and secretkeeper. Kirin Tor was returned; it was my left most minion. Anyone think the assignment of minion to be returned is random or what? | ||
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Xenocide23
0 Posts
Edit: It could be random as well, someone would have to test it. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
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IaniAniaN
Canada555 Posts
The dream, with this deck, is playing Mad Scientist into Kirin Tor into Ethernal Archanist, and maybe having the secret be a Mirror Entity, but even that happening might just not be that strong. | ||
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AHeroicKumquat
United Kingdom0 Posts
On July 31 2014 04:29 awesomoecalypse wrote: I meant mirror entity, sorry. Basically, Mad Scientist that summons mirror entity is a 2/2+one of your opponent's minions for 2 mana and one card (since mad scientist summons the secret from your deck and plays it for free, it only costs 1 card from your hand). Mad Scientist that summons duplicate is a 2/2+minion only arcane intellect for 2 mana and one card. The Kirin Tor Mage combos aren't quite as insane as that, but they're still very solid and major tempo play. I dunno if "secret decks" in the sense of decks that just run all the secrets and all the cards keying off secrets will ever be viable. Some of those cards like Ethereal Arcanist and Secretkeeper still kinda suck, and many of those secrets don't really synergize that well with mad scientist and kirin tor mage (counterspell, for example, has minimal synergy with either). But I do think that duplicate and mirror entity specifically will combo really well with mad scientist, which will make Kirin Tor more attractive as well, and we'll start to see Mage decks running those specific cards to take a major tempo lead and build a crazy board presence before turn 4. Well, I think you're probably right on it being a tech choice of sorts in current mage builds although I don't know if decks that don't already run secrets would add in a few just to make this card live, but this card is gonna be really cool cause there's gonna be a lot of experimentation around it, and that's always fun to watch, if only for the free wins when the experiments go wrong At an rate, I could certainly see freeze mage at least experimenting with the mad scientists so that they can get to the ice block more consistently, since that's basically life or death against miracle or aggro | ||
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AHeroicKumquat
United Kingdom0 Posts
On July 31 2014 11:33 hokeypocus wrote: Played an interesting game w/ a duplicate secrets deck. He killed 3 minions when I had duplicate in play. I had Kirin Tor, loot hoarder and secretkeeper. Kirin Tor was returned; it was my left most minion. Anyone think the assignment of minion to be returned is random or what? I played against a mage who played duplicate, and when I aoe'd his board of four minions and he got back a mana wyrm, which I'm pretty sure was his leftmost minion. It could be that because the leftmost minion is the last to die in animations (I think) it is actually the last to die before the secret activates, so thats the one the secret targets, could be wrong though | ||
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CreareCopy
Norway0 Posts
I would have hoped to draw some more secrets yes, in this video however Duplicate copies secures a victory: | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
Excellent call on Mirror Entity working well with it. I was thinking Spellbender and/or Counterspell initially but Mirror Entity seems like it would cause quite the mind games as well. Also, Archmage Antonidas + Duplicate on turn 10 is quite nice. Not really digging playing the other secret-based minions (Kirin Tor Mage, Secretkeeper, etc.) since I don't want to run anything too secret-heavy. | ||
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