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On August 21 2013 03:18 GogoKodo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 03:16 jrkirby wrote:
Is there a game mode that isn't pay2win? I remember something about a "forge" mode or something where players choose from a random pool of cards every match. Does this exist in the beta? It's called Arena and it works similar to drafting. You get a choice between 3 random cards (I think of the same rarity), 30 times and that's your deck. You have to pay Gold or Real money to play that though. You play until you either have 3 losses, or 9 wins and you get some rewards based on how many wins you get.
Well fuck. The only part of this that isn't pay to win isn't free to play. I guess hearthstone just isn't for me then.
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Well, to be fair it isn't unreasonable to think that blizz has really low gold accumulation right now just to keep people from growing this huge empire of freely acquired cards that will all be wiped when beta ends and they will end up never playing again since their collection is gone.
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On August 21 2013 03:51 Takkara wrote:
Can someone explain how a collectible card game is pay2win? Is that not how every collectible card game has always been? Why spend the time calling that out about Hearthstone?
I don't think people are saying Blizzard is doing anything inherently wrong, but just that it'd have been nice to have a CCG online that wasn't also going to be expensive to realistically compete in that also had good support/development.
So far the game looks incredibly shallow. It's not bad or anything, but I have a hard time being excited about a game with so few actual hard dilemmas.
That said, I think the Arena is handled nicely and that format alone could keep me entertained.
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On August 21 2013 03:58 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 03:18 GogoKodo wrote:On August 21 2013 03:16 jrkirby wrote:
Is there a game mode that isn't pay2win? I remember something about a "forge" mode or something where players choose from a random pool of cards every match. Does this exist in the beta? It's called Arena and it works similar to drafting. You get a choice between 3 random cards (I think of the same rarity), 30 times and that's your deck. You have to pay Gold or Real money to play that though. You play until you either have 3 losses, or 9 wins and you get some rewards based on how many wins you get. Well fuck. The only part of this that isn't pay to win isn't free to play. I guess hearthstone just isn't for me then.
You don't have to pay for arena if you can earn the gold. If you mastered the arena, then you can fund the arena cost with your arena winnings in an infinite cycle. Need to be really good though.
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On August 21 2013 03:56 BliptiX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 03:51 Takkara wrote:
Can someone explain how a collectible card game is pay2win? Is that not how every collectible card game has always been? Why spend the time calling that out about Hearthstone? They are probably just talking about how long it takes to earn gold in the beta. It is next to impossible right now to earn cards outside of buying them. I really doubt that Blizzard will release Hearthstone without improving this however, so while it's productive to raise the issue I think it's a bit premature to get up in arms over. An example of a ccg that isn't "pay2win" would be the recently released Scrolls. You can buy 6 cards which reset every few days and the starter decks with real money but the rest of the cards are earned through gold.
if anything scrolls was the biggest ccg money grab, i actually paid the 20$ like tens of thousands of other ppl. it initially averaged around 20k players at a time, now you're lucky if you see more than one thousand ppl playing.
the reason is because they made their money, now there's basically no updates (decay is "soon", drafting is "soon", etc etc)
and without updates, the game is soooo shallow, i got to 1800 in about a week because 99% of the cards play themselves and the combos take little planning/forethought.
scrolls has a TON of potential, their problem is the dev team is just too slow, especially the against the onslaught of hearthstone/hex. maybe one day they'll have a fleshed out game, but it'll definitely be too late
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On August 21 2013 04:08 heartlxp wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 03:56 BliptiX wrote:On August 21 2013 03:51 Takkara wrote:
Can someone explain how a collectible card game is pay2win? Is that not how every collectible card game has always been? Why spend the time calling that out about Hearthstone? They are probably just talking about how long it takes to earn gold in the beta. It is next to impossible right now to earn cards outside of buying them. I really doubt that Blizzard will release Hearthstone without improving this however, so while it's productive to raise the issue I think it's a bit premature to get up in arms over. An example of a ccg that isn't "pay2win" would be the recently released Scrolls. You can buy 6 cards which reset every few days and the starter decks with real money but the rest of the cards are earned through gold. if anything scrolls was the biggest ccg money grab, i actually paid the 20$ like tens of thousands of other ppl. it initially averaged around 20k players at a time, now you're lucky if you see more than one thousand ppl playing. the reason is because they made their money, now there's basically no updates (decay is "soon", drafting is "soon", etc etc) and without updates, the game is soooo shallow, i got to 1800 in about a week because 99% of the cards play themselves and the combos take little planning/forethought. scrolls has a TON of potential, their problem is the dev team is just too slow, especially the against the onslaught of hearthstone/hex. maybe one day they'll have a fleshed out game, but it'll definitely be too late
Decay is out Monday, August 26th, actually. There have been plenty of updates since it was released introducing a decent amount of new scrolls that changed gameplay quite a bit. They are slow at releasing new content but it does get released.
None of this refutes the statement that it you can't buy your way to a top tier deck.
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I'm still unsure about the gold gain. There are daily quests which from what I've seen give you 40 gold (might be other amounts). So just completing the quest each day would give you a pack every 3 days with some leftover gold towards your next pack. You also earn 5 gold per 5 wins so that will add up a little to speed up the next pack.
So that might be slow but what other games are giving you more free stuff quicker and without any real money use at all? I haven't played other CCG/TCG besides MTGO so perhaps some other game is giving you more free packs with absolutely zero investment but it's most definitely not MTGO.
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On August 21 2013 04:14 BliptiX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 04:08 heartlxp wrote:On August 21 2013 03:56 BliptiX wrote:On August 21 2013 03:51 Takkara wrote:
Can someone explain how a collectible card game is pay2win? Is that not how every collectible card game has always been? Why spend the time calling that out about Hearthstone? They are probably just talking about how long it takes to earn gold in the beta. It is next to impossible right now to earn cards outside of buying them. I really doubt that Blizzard will release Hearthstone without improving this however, so while it's productive to raise the issue I think it's a bit premature to get up in arms over. An example of a ccg that isn't "pay2win" would be the recently released Scrolls. You can buy 6 cards which reset every few days and the starter decks with real money but the rest of the cards are earned through gold. if anything scrolls was the biggest ccg money grab, i actually paid the 20$ like tens of thousands of other ppl. it initially averaged around 20k players at a time, now you're lucky if you see more than one thousand ppl playing. the reason is because they made their money, now there's basically no updates (decay is "soon", drafting is "soon", etc etc) and without updates, the game is soooo shallow, i got to 1800 in about a week because 99% of the cards play themselves and the combos take little planning/forethought. scrolls has a TON of potential, their problem is the dev team is just too slow, especially the against the onslaught of hearthstone/hex. maybe one day they'll have a fleshed out game, but it'll definitely be too late Decay is out Monday, August 26th, actually. There have been plenty of updates since it was released introducing a decent amount of new scrolls that changed gameplay quite a bit. They are slow at releasing new content but it does get released. None of this refutes the statement that it you can't buy your way to a top tier deck.
Oh you're right! I can't wait to test out decay.
I actually agree Scrolls is not P2W and that in Hearthstone you can buy your way to a top tier deck.
But my argument is that you're focusing on the wrong thing!
Instead, look for depth in the game, that is, you bought the "best deck" possible, but because of the skill involved in actually playing the game, you won't beat any experience veterans with just a deck of commons. Think Sligh in MTG.
So maybe I'm looking for a developed meta-game, and I think the mechanics in Scrolls are just too simple for that.
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I want to play this game soooooooooo badly  (
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On August 20 2013 16:04 eluv wrote:
Just finished an arena match against a guy that pulled not 1, not 2, but *3* legendaries in his arena deck. Al'Akir to start things off (handled that) followed by Black Knight (ok...), and then when all looked lost - oh hey how about this Deathwing.
That seems pretty silly.
If you're not going to make it a set 20 Common 7 rare 2 epic 1 legendary or something, at least restrict the chances of getting multiple legendaries, imho.
So you're complaining about how random drawing a card from your deck is? It's the whole nature of TCG bro. Also they do have limits to how many cards you put in, same as any other TCG. You can't limit the legendaries to only having one, that's the same as only allowing 1 card, out of the best 10 cards of any other TCG game. Think about how stupid that would be for MTG or Yugioh. If someone wants to stack their deck with a buncha high cost legendaries then they will have a shitty early game and hope to not be too behind by the time they can start summoning them in mass. Theres also 3x the amount of cards to deal with big monsters then there are big monsters themselves.
I also think the deck limit to be 40 instead.
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On August 21 2013 05:06 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 16:04 eluv wrote:
Just finished an arena match against a guy that pulled not 1, not 2, but *3* legendaries in his arena deck. Al'Akir to start things off (handled that) followed by Black Knight (ok...), and then when all looked lost - oh hey how about this Deathwing.
That seems pretty silly.
If you're not going to make it a set 20 Common 7 rare 2 epic 1 legendary or something, at least restrict the chances of getting multiple legendaries, imho. So you're complaining about how random drawing a card from your deck is? It's the whole nature of TCG bro. Also they do have limits to how many cards you put in, same as any other TCG. You can't limit the legendaries to only having one, that's the same as only allowing 1 card, out of the best 10 cards of any other TCG game. Think about how stupid that would be for MTG or Yugioh. If someone wants to stack their deck with a buncha high cost legendaries then they will have a shitty early game and hope to not be too behind by the time they can start summoning them in mass. Theres also 3x the amount of cards to deal with big monsters then there are big monsters themselves.
He is talking about arena mode in which you craft a deck from cards randomly given to you and then play a series of matches with this deck.
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Anyone with a beta key??? TT_TT want to play this game so badly
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On August 21 2013 05:09 AM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 05:06 Zooper31 wrote:On August 20 2013 16:04 eluv wrote:
Just finished an arena match against a guy that pulled not 1, not 2, but *3* legendaries in his arena deck. Al'Akir to start things off (handled that) followed by Black Knight (ok...), and then when all looked lost - oh hey how about this Deathwing.
That seems pretty silly.
If you're not going to make it a set 20 Common 7 rare 2 epic 1 legendary or something, at least restrict the chances of getting multiple legendaries, imho. So you're complaining about how random drawing a card from your deck is? It's the whole nature of TCG bro. Also they do have limits to how many cards you put in, same as any other TCG. You can't limit the legendaries to only having one, that's the same as only allowing 1 card, out of the best 10 cards of any other TCG game. Think about how stupid that would be for MTG or Yugioh. If someone wants to stack their deck with a buncha high cost legendaries then they will have a shitty early game and hope to not be too behind by the time they can start summoning them in mass. Theres also 3x the amount of cards to deal with big monsters then there are big monsters themselves. He is talking about arena mode in which you craft a deck from cards randomly given to you and then play a series of matches with this deck.
Thought he was talking about just another random match he had against someone. Hmm then ya, or at least make it the same for both opponents. But then arena is kinda like gambling anyway, you get a random hero and random cards and do your best. It's a high cost (pay to play) and high gain (9 win chest unlock) scenario. I still feel ok about what I said.
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Hearthstone makes me cringe so much because there are so many people who are really unfamiliar with tcgs freaking out about things that are common to all tcgs (pay 2 win, omg draft mode is luck based, etc), as well as so many bad players streaming who don't understand that card count in hand is the most valuable resource (card advantage) etc.. >.<
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The thing that makes me cringe most about hearthstone, is all the backseat gamers in twitch chat. Normally twitch chat is the funniest thing in the world, in hearthstone streams, it's people who don't even know what the cards do trying to tell the streamer what to do.
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On August 21 2013 05:24 RagequitBM wrote:
The thing that makes me cringe most about hearthstone, is all the backseat gamers in twitch chat. Normally twitch chat is the funniest thing in the world, in hearthstone streams, it's people who don't even know what the cards do trying to tell the streamer what to do.
What ? Twitch streams had always been that way.
On August 21 2013 03:58 jrkirby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 03:18 GogoKodo wrote:On August 21 2013 03:16 jrkirby wrote:
Is there a game mode that isn't pay2win? I remember something about a "forge" mode or something where players choose from a random pool of cards every match. Does this exist in the beta? It's called Arena and it works similar to drafting. You get a choice between 3 random cards (I think of the same rarity), 30 times and that's your deck. You have to pay Gold or Real money to play that though. You play until you either have 3 losses, or 9 wins and you get some rewards based on how many wins you get. Well fuck. The only part of this that isn't pay to win isn't free to play. I guess hearthstone just isn't for me then.
It's also my feeling. Specially since playing arenas is an format alien enough that you need to practice it to get good at it and i haven't seen a single streamer after day 1 get consistent wins again to fund themselves. Instead most just paid for boosters and are crushing the ranked games against sucky decks.
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On August 21 2013 05:26 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 05:24 RagequitBM wrote:
The thing that makes me cringe most about hearthstone, is all the backseat gamers in twitch chat. Normally twitch chat is the funniest thing in the world, in hearthstone streams, it's people who don't even know what the cards do trying to tell the streamer what to do. What ? Twitch streams had always been that way. Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 03:58 jrkirby wrote:On August 21 2013 03:18 GogoKodo wrote:On August 21 2013 03:16 jrkirby wrote:
Is there a game mode that isn't pay2win? I remember something about a "forge" mode or something where players choose from a random pool of cards every match. Does this exist in the beta? It's called Arena and it works similar to drafting. You get a choice between 3 random cards (I think of the same rarity), 30 times and that's your deck. You have to pay Gold or Real money to play that though. You play until you either have 3 losses, or 9 wins and you get some rewards based on how many wins you get. Well fuck. The only part of this that isn't pay to win isn't free to play. I guess hearthstone just isn't for me then. It's also my feeling. Specially since playing arenas is an format alien enough that you need to practice it to get good at it and i haven't seen a single streamer after day 1 get consistent wins again to fund themselves. Instead most just paid for boosters and are crushing the ranked games against sucky decks.
I know reckful got to at least 5 wins before he went offline from a ddos, he only had 1 loss too. Not sure if anyone has ever gotten higher. Didn't even get to see him unlock the chest.
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On August 21 2013 05:32 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 05:26 Godwrath wrote:On August 21 2013 05:24 RagequitBM wrote:
The thing that makes me cringe most about hearthstone, is all the backseat gamers in twitch chat. Normally twitch chat is the funniest thing in the world, in hearthstone streams, it's people who don't even know what the cards do trying to tell the streamer what to do. What ? Twitch streams had always been that way. On August 21 2013 03:58 jrkirby wrote:On August 21 2013 03:18 GogoKodo wrote:On August 21 2013 03:16 jrkirby wrote:
Is there a game mode that isn't pay2win? I remember something about a "forge" mode or something where players choose from a random pool of cards every match. Does this exist in the beta? It's called Arena and it works similar to drafting. You get a choice between 3 random cards (I think of the same rarity), 30 times and that's your deck. You have to pay Gold or Real money to play that though. You play until you either have 3 losses, or 9 wins and you get some rewards based on how many wins you get. Well fuck. The only part of this that isn't pay to win isn't free to play. I guess hearthstone just isn't for me then. It's also my feeling. Specially since playing arenas is an format alien enough that you need to practice it to get good at it and i haven't seen a single streamer after day 1 get consistent wins again to fund themselves. Instead most just paid for boosters and are crushing the ranked games against sucky decks. I know reckful got to at least 5 wins before he went offline from a ddos, he only had 1 loss too. Not sure if anyone has ever gotten higher. Didn't even get to see him unlock the chest.
You need 7 tho. And at that point, you are likely to be facing other people with 5/1 aswell  .
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On August 21 2013 05:35 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 05:32 Zooper31 wrote:On August 21 2013 05:26 Godwrath wrote:On August 21 2013 05:24 RagequitBM wrote:
The thing that makes me cringe most about hearthstone, is all the backseat gamers in twitch chat. Normally twitch chat is the funniest thing in the world, in hearthstone streams, it's people who don't even know what the cards do trying to tell the streamer what to do. What ? Twitch streams had always been that way. On August 21 2013 03:58 jrkirby wrote:On August 21 2013 03:18 GogoKodo wrote:On August 21 2013 03:16 jrkirby wrote:
Is there a game mode that isn't pay2win? I remember something about a "forge" mode or something where players choose from a random pool of cards every match. Does this exist in the beta? It's called Arena and it works similar to drafting. You get a choice between 3 random cards (I think of the same rarity), 30 times and that's your deck. You have to pay Gold or Real money to play that though. You play until you either have 3 losses, or 9 wins and you get some rewards based on how many wins you get. Well fuck. The only part of this that isn't pay to win isn't free to play. I guess hearthstone just isn't for me then. It's also my feeling. Specially since playing arenas is an format alien enough that you need to practice it to get good at it and i haven't seen a single streamer after day 1 get consistent wins again to fund themselves. Instead most just paid for boosters and are crushing the ranked games against sucky decks. I know reckful got to at least 5 wins before he went offline from a ddos, he only had 1 loss too. Not sure if anyone has ever gotten higher. Didn't even get to see him unlock the chest. You need 7 tho. And at that point, you are likely to be facing other people with 5/1 aswell .
Like a said in an earlier post. It's hearthstone gambling. You need 7wins to come out even, gold wise. But you can go to 9wins and get more than what you paid for. Also an fun way to play and learn the game.
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Locodoco has gone 6-3, 9-2, 9-2 in his 3 arena rounds thus far. Watching him arena simply makes me laugh because it's obvious how few people have real good experience with that sort of format. Drafting is far and away the most fun way to play MtG and many of the same ideas apply.
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EPT
