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Sanya12364 Posts
On December 19 2009 15:15 Mystlord wrote:
Now, just looking at ROADS, not transportation as a whole, do you have a source stating that roads are privately owned/maintained? Because I was under the assumption that they were government owned/maintained.
Ahh a source. An example of wholly privately constructed and maintained roadway? The most prominent one that I recall was Lancaster Turnpike in Pennsylvania (~1792 - I'll have to review to see if I remember correctly). But many of the major roadways in the US northeast were initially private constructions that later were abandoned or purchased by the government. (1st Massachusetts Turnpike, 2nd Massachusetts Turnpike, etc)
source? Hopefully a good US history textbook. Topic would be 19th century turnpikes.
As for modern private equity roads?
Orange County until 2004
http://www.91expresslanes.com/
Not a perfect example. Most in US are PPPs (public private partnerships) Currently 91expresslanes is now under public administration by Orange County.
Private roads are really more common in developing parts of the world where the land is cheaper. In the developed nations, they generally take the form of PPPs where the private equity leverages the government's power of eminent domain to take land for roadways. Horribly messy practice. Is that enough, or do you want more? I think I know of a few in Asia and France - probably PPPs though.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On December 19 2009 17:16 TanGeng wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2009 15:15 Mystlord wrote:
Now, just looking at ROADS, not transportation as a whole, do you have a source stating that roads are privately owned/maintained? Because I was under the assumption that they were government owned/maintained. Ahh a source. An example of wholly privately constructed and maintained roadway? The most prominent one that I recall was Lancaster Turnpike in Pennsylvania (~1792 - I'll have to review to see if I remember correctly). But many of the major roadways in the US northeast were initially private constructions that later were abandoned or purchased by the government. (1st Massachusetts Turnpike, 2nd Massachusetts Turnpike, etc) source? Hopefully a good US history textbook. Topic would be 19th century turnpikes. As for modern private equity roads? Orange County until 2004 http://www.91expresslanes.com/Not a perfect example. Most in US are PPPs (public private partnerships) Currently 91expresslanes is now under public administration by Orange County. Private roads are really more common in developing parts of the world where the land is cheaper. In the developed nations, they generally take the form of PPPs where the private equity leverages the government's power of eminent domain to take land for roadways. Horribly messy practice. Is that enough, or do you want more? I think I know of a few in Asia and France - probably PPPs though.
No, that's fine. Thank you very much  I think the information you've given me here is a good springboard for any further research I want to do.
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People voting on this bill aren't even going to know what's in it. It's just trying to be rushed through like everything else this administration has done by using fear tactics and bullying. This tyrannical spending spree needs to stop.
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On December 20 2009 02:05 Undisputed- wrote:
People voting on this bill aren't even going to know what's in it. It's just trying to be rushed through like everything else this administration has done by using fear tactics and bullying. This tyrannical spending spree needs to stop.
Yeah, I agree about the rushing thing. People saying that so many people are dying so we need to rush a health care reform through is such a terrible argument. "If we don't do this now X amount of people will die." Well, if we don't do it RIGHT X amount of people will die in the future because the bill wasn't written properly. Not to mention the mess you will have of an inefficient health care system.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On December 20 2009 03:53 zerglingsfolife wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 02:05 Undisputed- wrote:
People voting on this bill aren't even going to know what's in it. It's just trying to be rushed through like everything else this administration has done by using fear tactics and bullying. This tyrannical spending spree needs to stop. Yeah, I agree about the rushing thing. People saying that so many people are dying so we need to rush a health care reform through is such a terrible argument. "If we don't do this now X amount of people will die." Well, if we don't do it RIGHT X amount of people will die in the future because the bill wasn't written properly. Not to mention the mess you will have of an inefficient health care system.
I disagree. I think the health care bill has gone through enough review already. The only major issues left to deal with are the much bigger plans that should be pushed through such as Medicare expansion and the Public Option. Without those two elements, the bill fixes a lot of issues that mark our corrupted health care system.
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Well, it looks like the Democrats might be able to pass the bill in the Senate.
Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska has agreed to support the bill in exchange for provisions on abortions covered by insurance and millions of Medicare funds devoted to his state. This makes him the 60th supporter of the bill.
Senator Ben Nelson's agreement
Blergh, I wanted one with a public option. There needs to be something that dissuades the insurance companies from jacking up the prices.
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It probably won't be passed today since the Republicans are again trying to delay it as long as possible.
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On December 20 2009 05:09 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
It probably won't be passed today since the Republicans are again trying to delay it as long as possible.
Although Republicans can still stall, Nelson's vote does make 60 senators, which does provide the possibility of the Democrats invoking cloture to stop Republican filibustering, which greatly diminishes Republican stall efforts.
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On December 20 2009 03:53 zerglingsfolife wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 02:05 Undisputed- wrote:
People voting on this bill aren't even going to know what's in it. It's just trying to be rushed through like everything else this administration has done by using fear tactics and bullying. This tyrannical spending spree needs to stop. Yeah, I agree about the rushing thing. People saying that so many people are dying so we need to rush a health care reform through is such a terrible argument. "If we don't do this now X amount of people will die." Well, if we don't do it RIGHT X amount of people will die in the future because the bill wasn't written properly. Not to mention the mess you will have of an inefficient health care system.
I think it has to be rushed, enough waiting. With all the economic power and influence the US had through the 20th century, they should have been the first country in the world with such healthcare, not the last. Like... 70 years ago.
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Almost finished reading the entirety of the bill
Bill reading continues on the floor of the Senate. Page 324 of 383. #senatedebate
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On December 20 2009 05:05 Mystlord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 03:53 zerglingsfolife wrote:On December 20 2009 02:05 Undisputed- wrote:
People voting on this bill aren't even going to know what's in it. It's just trying to be rushed through like everything else this administration has done by using fear tactics and bullying. This tyrannical spending spree needs to stop. Yeah, I agree about the rushing thing. People saying that so many people are dying so we need to rush a health care reform through is such a terrible argument. "If we don't do this now X amount of people will die." Well, if we don't do it RIGHT X amount of people will die in the future because the bill wasn't written properly. Not to mention the mess you will have of an inefficient health care system. I disagree. I think the health care bill has gone through enough review already. The only major issues left to deal with are the much bigger plans that should be pushed through such as Medicare expansion and the Public Option. Without those two elements, the bill fixes a lot of issues that mark our corrupted health care system.
This is a troll or you just don't have a clue.
Republicans and most democrats don't know what's in the bill because its being crafted behind closed doors by Reid. Let alone will they be able to read the 2000+ pages before it's being voted on xmas eve ffs. Anything involving the government is usually corrupt.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On December 20 2009 11:33 Undisputed- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 05:05 Mystlord wrote:On December 20 2009 03:53 zerglingsfolife wrote:On December 20 2009 02:05 Undisputed- wrote:
People voting on this bill aren't even going to know what's in it. It's just trying to be rushed through like everything else this administration has done by using fear tactics and bullying. This tyrannical spending spree needs to stop. Yeah, I agree about the rushing thing. People saying that so many people are dying so we need to rush a health care reform through is such a terrible argument. "If we don't do this now X amount of people will die." Well, if we don't do it RIGHT X amount of people will die in the future because the bill wasn't written properly. Not to mention the mess you will have of an inefficient health care system. I disagree. I think the health care bill has gone through enough review already. The only major issues left to deal with are the much bigger plans that should be pushed through such as Medicare expansion and the Public Option. Without those two elements, the bill fixes a lot of issues that mark our corrupted health care system. This is a troll or you just don't have a clue. Republicans and most democrats don't know what's in the bill because its being crafted behind closed doors by Reid. Let alone will they be able to read the 2000+ pages before it's being voted on xmas eve ffs. Anything involving the government is usually corrupt.
No, YOU must be a troll. I have no idea where you're pulling the number 2000+ from, but the House bill comes up at 1990 pages, with the largest font and spacing I've ever seen:
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf
Senate health care bill comes up at 615, with the same big arse font:
http://help.senate.gov/BAI09A84_xml.pdf
Next time, please do a basic search for the bill before stating facts.
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Sanya12364 Posts
Well it doesn't really matter how many pages it is. It makes references to other bills and various parts of the Federal register. The bill is pretty much unreadable by anyone except for those really conversed in the relevant codes.
I'm pretty sure that they will be able to go through the entire bill. Comprehending it is a different matter. But then again maybe there are some brilliant minds in Congress *snicker*. The point is we won't know what is in the bill until much much later.
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On December 20 2009 02:05 Undisputed- wrote:
People voting on this bill aren't even going to know what's in it. It's just trying to be rushed through like everything else this administration has done by using fear tactics and bullying. This tyrannical spending spree needs to stop.
Are you implying past administrations were somehow better in this regard? Bush did the same shit. Also, it is a known fact that practically no one in the house or senate reads any bill.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
On December 21 2009 13:37 TanGeng wrote:
Well it doesn't really matter how many pages it is. It makes references to other bills and various parts of the Federal register. The bill is pretty much unreadable by anyone except for those really conversed in the relevant codes.
I'm pretty sure that they will be able to go through the entire bill. Comprehending it is a different matter. But then again maybe there are some brilliant minds in Congress *snicker*. The point is we won't know what is in the bill until much much later.
I think it's very readable after Title I Parts 1 and 2 (those deal with amending the Public Service Act, which I don't want to read). Everything else is very clear and detailed.
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On December 21 2009 13:49 Mastermind wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 02:05 Undisputed- wrote:
People voting on this bill aren't even going to know what's in it. It's just trying to be rushed through like everything else this administration has done by using fear tactics and bullying. This tyrannical spending spree needs to stop. Are you implying past administrations were somehow better in this regard? Bush did the same shit.
I doubt he is, he seems like an individualist anarchist to me...or maybe a rowdy libertarian!~~
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I love how Republican abuse of the filibuster has effectively changed the Senate rules and the Democrats are too pussified to do anything about it. I remember the times the Dems threatened to filibuster during the Bush reign... Republicans went bat shit
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Passes 60-40.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Landmark health care legislation backed by President Barack Obama has passed its sternest Senate test, overcoming Republican delaying tactics on a 60-40 vote that all but assures its passage by Christmas.
The bill would extend coverage to more than 30 million Americans who now lack it, while banning insurance company practices such as denial of benefits on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Senate Democrats confidently advanced health care legislation Sunday toward a make-or-break test vote in a push for Christmas-week passage. Republicans vowed to resist what they appeared unable to stop.
In the run-up to the vote, the escalation in rhetoric was remarkable on both sides of an issue that has divided the two political parties for months.
"This process is not legislation. This process is corruption," said Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., referring to the last-minute flurry of dealmaking that enabled Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., and the White House to lock in the 60 votes needed to approve the legislation.
Democratic Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island responded in near-Biblical terms. In a speech on the Senate floor, he said Republicans are embarked on a "no-holds barred mission of propaganda, obstruction and fear. ... There will be a reckoning. There will come a day of judgment about who was telling the truth."
Whatever else it was, the legislation represented the culmination of a year's work for Democrats, pressed by President Barack Obama to remake the nation's health care system.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/21/senate-votes-yes-on-first_n_398870.html
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On December 21 2009 15:36 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Passes 60-40. Show nested quote +
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Landmark health care legislation backed by President Barack Obama has passed its sternest Senate test, overcoming Republican delaying tactics on a 60-40 vote that all but assures its passage by Christmas.
The bill would extend coverage to more than 30 million Americans who now lack it, while banning insurance company practices such as denial of benefits on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Senate Democrats confidently advanced health care legislation Sunday toward a make-or-break test vote in a push for Christmas-week passage. Republicans vowed to resist what they appeared unable to stop.
In the run-up to the vote, the escalation in rhetoric was remarkable on both sides of an issue that has divided the two political parties for months.
"This process is not legislation. This process is corruption," said Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., referring to the last-minute flurry of dealmaking that enabled Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., and the White House to lock in the 60 votes needed to approve the legislation.
Democratic Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island responded in near-Biblical terms. In a speech on the Senate floor, he said Republicans are embarked on a "no-holds barred mission of propaganda, obstruction and fear. ... There will be a reckoning. There will come a day of judgment about who was telling the truth."
Whatever else it was, the legislation represented the culmination of a year's work for Democrats, pressed by President Barack Obama to remake the nation's health care system.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/21/senate-votes-yes-on-first_n_398870.html
It passed just barely, wow. Exactly 60-40.
Now all that's left is probably the conference committees because odds are, the House and Senate versions of the bill are going to differ. The conference committees are mostly backroom stuff, so I'm hoping the bill doesn't get skewered there.
You can always improve on a healthcare bill like the Social Security Bill. Make amendments to improve it. However, it's going to be much more difficult to get a healthcare bill passed again if it's rejected. Just look at what happened with Clinton.
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EPT
