2 Japanese Trolls Fails Hard in Korea - Page 12

On July 07 2009 16:29 sk` wrote:
poasiodss:
I'm a lovely product of the American education system and I disagree with your notion that our tainted history is thoroughly examined. For the most part, it is taught in a manner that states, "Yeah, that stuff was pretty bad, but look at all these heroic things that happened too! Oh and Abe, he totally like put and end to all the dirty stuff!". In actuality, it was not so clean and Lincoln's motivations were never so pure. More importantly, how long did it take for the issue to have real dialog or solutions? Where's those 40 achers and the muel every single slave was promised? Sorry, but the US is by no means clean in this matter and has done little in terms of apology; so for your or I to judge Germany or Japan is... damn pot; how black is that kettle again? I feel I have no ground to judge either.

Also, before you try to discredit my point by questioning the education I received, I was in AP classes from the 5 grade until exiting high school. As a philosophy major later, I've just observed that every country teaches history in a way that paints its deeds in a positive light; not matter how filthy they are.

On July 07 2009 16:29 sk` wrote:
I never said the trend in Japan was to blame the old regime. I said the trend is that the people on the street feel and act very differently than the goverment. As for "...never happen again..." type thoughts... crappy shit happens all the time, different places than the place before it. As a species we've learned nothing from our past atrocities. Darfur or other recent atrocities should prove as much. More important would be to look to why it happened and why it happens and thus address the nature of those "whys" and you can cut it off before it happens - peacefully.

Either way, you see this pattern continue today under differing terms. The motivation and tragedies that follow remain. Better to analyze this and understand it (thus reach a solution) than cry about it.

On July 07 2009 16:29 sk` wrote:
Also, I never said they should just pretend it never happened, but rather standing in one spot crying about it isn't productive. China and Japan have largely moved on; much like the US and Africa have done... Korea seems to cling to it though and if you compare relative growth rates and GDP, it is clear that energy is wasted. Not to say South Korea hasn't been successful, just that it isn't as rapid or strong as its neighbors. If we consider the two Koreas as one it is especially unsuccessful.

On July 07 2009 16:29 sk` wrote:
I am well aware of that history (in terms of post-war Japan). Of course they protested; Japan was never occupied before. Hell, they even managed to repel the Mongol Empire of old (through lucky typhoon timing). However, unlike Korea which is still cranky about it, Japan got to the task of rebuilding largely before it got to the task of protest. No matter which revision of history you check the bulk of the effort was placed in how Japan structured its economy and labor force over forgein investment. Nobody will doubt the US helped, especially with the procurement costs in the Korean War, but this is a standard model and the US continues to pay both Korea and Japan for land it uses for military purposes. The point of payment is moot since it is so wide-spread and Korea too has benefited from post-war aide... so I'm really not sure why you introduced this at all.

What are they supposed to "try" to? Remembering WW2 in a manner in which you wish? One can only control the level of education they receive so far; past that they'd need a passion to explore the topic and educate themselves in the details. Few humans posses this. To expect an entire culture to, without any motivation, is just absurd.

Nobody is trying to reduce the history of North America to "ideological ammo" and how you've lept there is beyond me. Seems mostly a ploy to distract from the topic. The topic is simple, you nor I are clean enough to pass judgment on the Japanese. From the usage of slaves to promises denied them after their freedom was passed to the abuse and exploitation of the native population... we are by no means in a position to judge. North America has seen no shortage of atrocities committed so that future generations of whites could enjoy the way of life they do now (for the record I am not black).

Nobody is trying to reduce the history of North America to "ideological ammo" and how you've lept there is beyond me

From the usage of slaves to promises denied them after their freedom was passed to the abuse and exploitation of the native population... we are by no means in a position to judge. North America has seen no shortage of atrocities committed so that future generations of whites could enjoy the way of life they do now

On July 07 2009 19:39 Eury wrote:
Let's make something clear here: Japan did commit genocides and other atrocities during WW2, so don't try to whitewash that. They were as bad as Nazi Germany, just that their war crimes didn't get as much exposure here in the west.

Germany has since then made up with their past and moved on, sadly you can't say the same when it comes to Japan. They still have war criminals enshrined in Yasukuni Shrine and every now then they try to revise their history books to make them look better - even victims - during WW2.
This angers a lot of countries in Asia that suffered under Japanese oppression during the war, and that anger get used by right-wing groups and/or nationalistic currents in China and Korea.

If Japan just stopped trying to whitewash their own history, removed the war criminals from Yasakuni, and offered an honest apology for what they did, then Japan could move on and leave their trouble past behind them.

Radical groups in China and Korea wouldn't have as much fuel for their hatred of Japan then either, and the relations between the countries would improve.

Well, if you were in AP classes during high school, I'd have to question your honesty. Starting from American History class in middle school through AP European History and AP U.S. History, my teachers always dealt at least one entire chapter on slavery.

I'm just going to state my point from the previous post since you completely overlooked it. In US, we learn about slavery. In Germany, they learn about Nazis. In Japan, they don't learn about the war crimes.

That's a very hypocritical way of thinking. You're preaching that Korea should analyze and understand the tragedies to learn from it. How about Japan? Shouldn't it also analyze and understand this so it wouldn't happen again? As I kept saying, it's quickly being forgotten over there.

If you are not in a position to judge, you are not even in a position to think. Everyone judges to one extent or another, and the responsibilities attached, unless one lives in complete dissapation, are unavoidable. Judgement, whatever the quality of one's faculties, can be redeemed by simple honesty. Unfortunately, this requires a lot of unlearning today, when public indoctrination in both oriental and "free" nations fill our heads with simplistic moralism and superficial cliches.

Here I do not blame you for being prejudiced; no thinking man can help that. I'm blaming you for immodesty, for being someone who hopes to enjoy the fruits of conclusion without harvesting his premises.

On July 08 2009 11:47 v1rtu0so wrote:
If the Japanese were really that ignorant of their history, as some suggest, I don't understand the anti-Korea sentiment of many Japanese people. The only way such widespread (and illogical) hatred could have spawned is if they know the history but somehow have a very twisted perspective of it.

For one, I know that many japanese claim that koreans are being ungrateful for "modernizing" korea during the occupation.

On July 08 2009 11:47 v1rtu0so wrote:
If the Japanese were really that ignorant of their history, as some suggest, I don't understand the anti-Korea sentiment of many Japanese people. The only way such widespread (and illogical) hatred could have spawned is if they know the history but somehow have a very twisted perspective of it. For one, I know that many japanese claim that koreans are being ungrateful for "modernizing" korea during the occupation.

What "anti-Korean" sentiment? Other than obscure manga and a few bitter old men, Korea is insanely popular in Japan. This comes despite constant media reports about how anti-Japanese some Koreans are (whether or not this is the case).

On July 08 2009 11:53 v1rtu0so wrote:
Let's hope what you say is true.
But certainly, that is not the impression I got from my encounters.