Iranian protests - Page 29

On June 22 2009 01:18 Xeris wrote:
Well from what I understand the protests have been attempting to become more peaceful (which is a very good thing for many reasons). However, government crackdowns on the protesters is still going on although not as badly as if they were to be really unruly. It's less about the election at this point and more about rights (although I guess it's been this way for awhile now but it's more open at this point) - people are rallying behind Moussavi although he's likely just a figurehead for this movement, in reality he's just a more sophisticated/less abrasive version of Ahmaeindjad...

I suppose the main things they want are more transparency, increased freedoms of expression, and less censorship; those are probably the three big demands that are likely to be granted at the end of this process. I suspect there won't be any groundbreaking changes in Iran, the protests will die down and there will be negotiated settlements in which the government will likely grant the above mentioned rights (or at least move in the right direction towards granting these things), and everything will be fine. For all that people say about Ahmadinejad and Khamenei - they're not stupid.

The only way this will escalate into revolutionary fervor is if Khamenei outright refuses to grant these rights, which I guess is a possibility, but is not likely. At the end of the day and when the dust has settled, Iran will be a slightly freer place to live. I think it would also be pretty interesting to see Ahmadinejad bring Moussavi into his government as the head Economic guy (I don't know what the title would be for that... head of the ministry of economy or something). My dad says that's not very likely, but it seems like it would go a long way to quelling some unrest.

On June 22 2009 01:30 sushiman wrote:
That misses the main point of the protests though; the alleged fraudulent election. There can be no settlement as long as that issue is still alive - why would the people accept some minor concessions from a government that shoots at protesters and most likely cheated in the election?
That would have to be some SERIOUS concessions if people would even consider keeping an illegitimate government; and if that happens it will still have been a serious blow to Iranian democracy that sets a pretty low standard for the future.

On June 22 2009 01:30 sushiman wrote:

That misses the main point of the protests though; the alleged fraudulent election. There can be no settlement as long as that issue is still alive - why would the people accept some minor concessions from a government that shoots at protesters and most likely cheated in the election?
That would have to be some SERIOUS concessions if people would even consider keeping an illegitimate government; and if that happens it will still have been a serious blow to Iranian democracy that sets a pretty low standard for the future.

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The belief in martyrdom is central to modern politics as well as Shiite tradition dating back centuries in Iran. It too helped propel the 1979 revolution. It sustained Iran during the eight-year war with Iraq, when over 120,000 Iranians died in the bloodiest modern Middle East conflict. Most major Iranian cities have a Martyrs' Museum or a Martyrs' cemetery.

The first Shiite martyr was Hussein, the prophet Mohammed's grandson. He believed it was better to die fighting injustice than to live with injustice under what he believed was illegitimate rule.

In the seventh century, Hussein and a band of fewer than 100 people, including women and children, took on the mighty Umayyad dynasty in Karbala, an ancient city in Mesopotamia now in modern-day Iraq. They knew they would be massacred.

Fourteen centuries later, Hussein's tomb in Karbala is one of the two holiest Shiite shrines — and millions of Iranians still make pilgrimages there every year. Just as Christians reenact Jesus' procession bearing the cross past the fourteen stops to Calvary before his crucifixion, so too do Shiites every year reenact Hussein's martyrdom in an Islamic passion play during the holy period of Ashura.

Because of Hussein, revolt against tyranny became part of Shiite tradition. Indeed, protest and martyrdom are widely considered duties to God. And nowhere is the practice more honored than in Iran, the world's largest Shiite country.

The revolutionaries exploited the deep passion about martyrdom as well as the timetable of Shiite mourning in whipping up greater opposition to Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi. With the deaths of "Neda" and others, they may now find the same phenomena used against them.

Two European companies — a major contractor to the U.S. government and a top cell-phone equipment maker — last year installed an electronic surveillance system for Iran that human rights advocates and intelligence experts say can help Iran target dissidents.

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Iranian clerics seek supreme leader alternative: English, http://www.alarabiya.net/ar... #Neda #iranelection

Religious leaders are considering an alternative to the supreme leader structure after at least 13 people were killed in the latest unrest to shake Tehran and family members of Ayatollah Rafsanjani were arrested amid calls by former President Mohammad Khatami for the release of all protesters.