EPTOn April 18 2009 14:14 Railxp wrote:
i entered this thread looking for cute pictures of small rodents
i entered this thread looking for cute pictures of small rodents ![[image loading]](http://s-ec.buzzfeed.com/static/imagebuzz/web02/2009/2/10/23/definitely-cute-have-one-look-at-that-little-face-12805-1234327174-47.jpg)
A small note about mice - Page 4
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
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kawoq
Guatemala357 Posts
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Ricjames
Czech Republic1047 Posts
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SonuvBob
Aiur21550 Posts
Mouse accel can be useful, but only if you can be accurate with it. You say you're used to it, but if you're not accurate, there's something wrong. Try disabling accel and fiddling with your sens. From the OP: Not surprisingly it's just too hard to be consistent with any acceleration. It's hard, but not impossible. I can see how it could help with SC: you can move to the edge of the screen much faster while still having low enough sens for great accuracy. With practice you can be accurate enough with high sens and no accel though, so accel's probably not worth the learning curve. | ||
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Impervious
Canada4212 Posts
HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU DO THAT IN 2.5 SECONDS? THAT'S NUTS!!! Seriously, I can get about 3.5 at best, with the average around 4.5. I feel like I'm going as fast as possible though. I also found that when I increased or decreased my mouse sensitivity, my results got worse. I guess I'm already at the right sensitivity for me. | ||
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
On April 22 2009 06:43 lMPERVlOUS wrote: Question. HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU DO THAT IN 2.5 SECONDS? THAT'S NUTS!!! Seriously, I can get about 3.5 at best, with the average around 4.5. I feel like I'm going as fast as possible though. I also found that when I increased or decreased my mouse sensitivity, my results got worse. I guess I'm already at the right sensitivity for me. No this is a huge mistake that most people make, you can't just change your sensitivity and then have it not show immediate results and give up. Of course you will get the best results with what you are used to. That doesn't mean it is what maximizes your potential. Think of it like new shoes, you can buy $500 shoes but they won't feel right the first time you put them on but that doesn't mean your 3 year old converses are better for potential raising. Go until about 1.3 inches to get across your whole screen and try it for a week, use iccup launcher to achieve this ingame as well. Again, this is if you care about getting the best from yourself... 1 week, it's not a big commitment and it's pretty suck how many people are hesitant to make it. EDIT: Also if your best time is a full second from your average time, this speaks VERY loudly about your lack of consistency, change your mouse if you want to fix this. I can routinely go over 5 games at a time without a single misclick. | ||
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
On April 22 2009 06:41 SonuvBob wrote: I think you answered your own question. :p Mouse accel can be useful, but only if you can be accurate with it. You say you're used to it, but if you're not accurate, there's something wrong. Try disabling accel and fiddling with your sens. From the OP: It's hard, but not impossible. I can see how it could help with SC: you can move to the edge of the screen much faster while still having low enough sens for great accuracy. With practice you can be accurate enough with high sens and no accel though, so accel's probably not worth the learning curve. I disagree, I think any mouse accel is just awful. Your hand speed and reaction time will vary throughout the day based on any number of things such as fatigue or concentration, it basically adds a hugely complex variable to your mouse movements. This variable compounds any changes to your mousing environment as well, it's bad on it's own but it also makes everything else your hand-eye coordination brain function has to adapt to that much more difficult. That doesn't mean you can't be better than an average mouse user with it on but I doubt anyone could get as fast or accurate as I am with my right hand with any mouse acceleration. | ||
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jtype
England2167 Posts
For me the main problem is that I've been getting a lot of pain in my wrist recently and I'm wondering if it's because the arms of my chair are lower than the level of the surface. (I'm not sure though) edit - Also, mouse acceleration is a really bad idea in my opinion. As the user above stated (the OP incidentally), it just adds another variable to contend with, when you're trying to be as consistent as possible. | ||
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SirNukes
18 Posts
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integral
United States3156 Posts
On April 15 2009 23:40 inReacH wrote: You mean this thing right? ![[image loading]](http://www.indiana.edu/~iuadapts/img/verticalmouse-large.jpg) I would agree that the positioning looks good but I haven't seen any mice with this design that allow you to use your fingers to help snap to the location you want which is really important. These mice all have to be really large and heavy because the buttons are on the side which mean they have to make it easy for your thumb to offer counter-pressure or simply clicking can throw you off. This is mostly speculation but I'm confident enough to not want to try it out with the current designs available... It's possible it could evolve into something good soon enough. I bought it because of carpal tunnel issues, but because I had to squeeze it to control it precisely it actually hurt my wrist worse than a flat mouse. Clicking was off-balance, even with the weight, so playing starcraft with it was just lol. I don't recommend it to any gamer, or in general really, unless you want the novel experience of having a sideways mouse. | ||
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SonuvBob
Aiur21550 Posts
On April 22 2009 07:48 inReacH wrote: I disagree, I think any mouse accel is just awful. Your hand speed and reaction time will vary throughout the day based on any number of things such as fatigue or concentration, it basically adds a hugely complex variable to your mouse movements. This variable compounds any changes to your mousing environment as well, it's bad on it's own but it also makes everything else your hand-eye coordination brain function has to adapt to that much more difficult. That doesn't mean you can't be better than an average mouse user with it on but I doubt anyone could get as fast or accurate as I am with my right hand with any mouse acceleration. I've seen accel used to great effect (and with great consistency) by FPS players, so I'm not so eager to dismiss it out of hand. SC doesn't need that level of accuracy though, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for new players. On April 22 2009 08:04 jtype wrote: I just measured mine and it's about 1-1.25 inches to cross the screen. I need to have a reasonably high sensitivity because my desk setup doesn't give me much room between the keyboard and the side of the sliding shelf (for my keyboard and mouse). For me the main problem is that I've been getting a lot of pain in my wrist recently and I'm wondering if it's because the arms of my chair are lower than the level of the surface. (I'm not sure though) edit - Also, mouse acceleration is a really bad idea in my opinion. As the user above stated (the OP incidentally), it just adds another variable to contend with, when you're trying to be as consistent as possible. From what I've heard, you shouldn't be using armrests when typing or using the mouse. If you get any wrist pain, take a break and maybe do some wrist exercises. | ||
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x89titan
Philippines1130 Posts
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
I lowered my sensitivity even further and am now confident on being able to get under 2 seconds but I probably won't be doing it for a long time because I only switch over to my right hand to test stuff and it is still more capable than my left hand. ![[image loading]](http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7994/2319.jpg) | ||
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
Anyone considering trying it out for a week, you will not regret it. | ||
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
And I really dislike how you're claiming stuff with such certainty based on your own experiences alone. You should try a career as a missionary. *Edit: Nada's mouse usage isn't what's impressive imo. It's his hotkey usage and his left hand. | ||
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SonuvBob
Aiur21550 Posts
On February 10 2008 14:59 SonuvBob wrote: I expect someone to get under 2. On February 10 2008 15:03 Aileon wrote: Under 2 would be retarded. You would just have to get an insane break on the blocks. ie have them all line up perfectly. I don't recall anyone ever getting below 4 last time we did these threads, so I really don't see where the "I expect someone to get 1.xxx" is coming from, but ok. Prove me right! | ||
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ZeaL.
United States5955 Posts
![[image loading]](http://ngoisao.net/news/thoi-cuoc/2008/03/3b9c3a18/ham2.jpg) Not a mouse, but something you should look out for. | ||
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
On April 22 2009 10:35 LaLuSh wrote: How fast you can go through that noob game has no bearing on Starcraft whatsoever. Just like there are different optimal speeds for Counterstrike and Quake, there might exist different optimal speeds for Starcraft and Popoint. And I really dislike how you're claiming stuff with such certainty based on your own experiences alone. You should try a career as a missionary. It's not just on my results, every single progamer uses sensitivity similar to mine. I realize popoint is not starcraft, but being able to mouse scroll is absolutely as sensitive as you could ever need your sensitivity to be and most people are playing with sensitivity WAY too high. I'm just trying to inform people that low sensitivity = more accuracy so they should all take serious time figuring out the lowest possible sensitivity where they can still use mouse scroll when it is necessary... and when I say figure out I don't mean test something for 3 minutes and say omg this is unbearable, that's why I say cut your sensitivity down a TON and try it for a week and then adjust from there. If your saying my blind faith can lead me towards a career as a missionary I would argue your ignorance is a much more compelling gateway to a job like that. | ||
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
Wrist-moving is the absolute most you should stretch it when it comes to starcraft. Let's take Counterstrike as an example. Smooth movements are premiered, but also fast and extremely accurate reaction movements. This requires a low sensitivity and use of your whole arm on a (preferrably) large mouse pad. Optimally your hand should hang freely in the air. Your wrist shouldn't rest on the mat nor the table. 180 degree turns, while pretty scarce, require use of the entire mousepad and an alert arm. It's counterpart Quake, however, requires constant changes in direction. It's fast paced. Requires movements to be carried out fast rather than with full smoothness and accuracy (which still are important nonetheless). You can't go flapping your arm around in Quake or you'd soon run out of mouse pad after 2 or 3 consecutive 180 degree turns in one direction. And the time it takes to lift the mouse from the mouse pad over to the other side just doesn't pay off, it rather punishes you by slowing you down (if you have a low sensitivity). I would compare Starcraft more to Quake than to Counterstrike. Movements have to be carried out with the least amount of time assigned to each and every move. FLapping around your arm too much does not help achieve greater efficiency. Quite to the contrary, it's detrimental. Accuracy is of importance, but not even close to that of Counterstrike. It's a fast paced game. Thus every fraction of a second your mouse spends above the mouse pad en route to a new position is wasted time. And on this note I'd like to address NaDa. Who undoubtedly is one of the fastest players around. Although I would label him average when it comes to his right mouse hand. Nada is fairly slow/average for a progamer with his cursor. It stays centered in the same position for most of the game. Instead. The second dimension of Starcraft kicks in. One that does not exist for many other games. The LEFT hand. Hotkeys. Nada is undoubtedly one of the best and fastest left hand hotkey users in the world. He relies upon hotkeys more than anything to move his screen from one frame to another. That is where-in the difference lies between a player like nada and, say, Bisu (among others). Bisu frantically uses his mouse cursor to change between frames during mid to late game. The unique extra hand mechanic of Starcraft serves an important purpose imo. It allows for the variation of mouse speeds and game/personality styles. Both hotkey centered and mouse centered players exist. And usually all these players are overcompensating with one hand for their lack of dexterity with the other. Let me post my own youtube clip: Do you see boxer moving his wrist like Nada? No? I wonder how that is and if that makes him a noob according to the Holy Scripture as put forth by InReach. The way I play I couldn't bare spending 0.1s extra moving/lifting my mouse the way Nada does. Just as he couldn't bare not cycling through his hotkey pattern a hundred times a minute. Each makes us unique in our own way. Your article was great. It'd be even better if you removed the part about sensitivity though. Because imho you've got it all wrong, and you're basing it all on your highly subjective findings. | ||
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
On April 22 2009 10:45 LaLuSh wrote: Every single progamer? How many have you asked? Ok I'm basing this off of all the ones I saw at blizzcon and all vods where I've seen progamers moving their mouse and the fact that in the korean progaming world they seem to often reach a consensus that is followed extremely consistently. EG: 99.9% of them all use the same keyboard and mouse. | ||
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