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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
tl;dr
An individual’s most valuable asset is obviously him or herself – knowledge, skills, experience, etc. What then is the second most valuable asset one can have? To me the answer is obvious. It’s other people’s assets that indirectly become my own through friendship and acquaintance. This fact underlies the fact that so many people – including myself – answer the question “what is the most important thing you gained at college?” with something along the lines of “the people I’ve met and become friends with.” This is what truly separates the best schools from the rest, since the education content is comparable between any set of respectable institutions. A student that works his butt off at a state college can easily develop a more potent mind than the Ivy League counterpart. But that student cannot escape the handicap of being deprived of the level influence and inspiration that comes only from one’s peers.
It goes well beyond the academic scope as we age and mature. If we need expert advice we can ask our friends for referrals if they themselves aren’t the expert. When it comes time for you to seriously consider investment options, your friend who went into banking will gladly offer help and/or recommend a good manager. If you need to kill that guy who slept with your wife, you can ask Kennigit to go ninja his sorry behind (or front, if that suits your style of payback). Situations where you’d have to spend a great deal of money and time to even get the bearings straight are greatly simplified because of the mutual network of friends and acquaintances.
I say acquaintances because just ‘knowing’ someone even on the loosest terms makes it infinitely easier and more likely that they will oblige to your request. For instance, if you are a businessman and you want to get in touch with some VP you don’t know, you can ask that other VP in the same company who you’d done a little work with to contact him. I heard a story from Tim Ferris (iirc it was him) that his friend’s goal while being in a MBA program wasn’t to graduate at the head of the class, or to get into a great consulting firm; it was to call and have lunch with every single one of the businessmen whose business cards he had somehow accumulated (it was some gigantic stack) before he graduated.
Every opportunity for meeting capable individuals should be taken advantage of to the fullest. In this day and age this is no longer limited to in-person contacts. Consider for a few moments the friends you have made on TL.net alone and the mutual value you have to one another through your respective studies and expertise. Just off the top of my head I count 3 future lawyers, 9+ programmers, a handful of biologists, 2 doctors, a crap ton of engineers/physicists/mathematicians, a few great writers (hi Etter, how’s your hand doing~), 1 hair expert, probably about 15 different languages spoken, along with about a hundred degenerates to make me feel better about myself. While it sounds utterly terrible to say something like “take advantage of your acquaintances,” as long as the relationship is symbiotic and mutual it can be positively maintained, as both sides recognize the benefit of helping each other out when asked. A unique part of our community is that we have several opportunities (i.e. excuses) a year to take off our online guise and meet each other in person, be it at Blizzcon, WCG, or just random OSL finals get-togethers.
We really should stop making excuses to not come out to these ‘events’ and should strive to organize more low-key meetings locally, particularly in hotspots like the Bay area, Los Angeles, and New York. For instance, I still haven’t met Tiffany and he lives like 30 minutes away! I know it’s hard to spontaneously get together without an excuse – hence the finals meet ups and LANs tend to be popular. Honestly though through my experience you don’t even need these, because you can thoroughly enjoy yourselves by just shit-talking forum retards and have a good laugh about it. The release of SC2 – beta or for real – should become another catalyst for members to have smaller but more frequent gatherings. Seriously guys, I’ve met something on the order of 50 TL.netters in person and I can only name one guy who was unbearably annoying while the overwhelming majority were tremendous individuals.
The opportunities and benefits for each and every one of us should grow in the next 5 years as the sudden increase in disposable income will allow us to expand our range of travel significantly (although a fulltime job will make it somewhat difficult to arrange for adequate time). And as we become more ‘free’, our value proposition to others will increase dramatically as well, as we will be actually doing shit that matters for a change.
TL’s strongest attribute is its community and the strong sense of connection amongst one another that stems from the site’s intolerance against morons and the respect we have for one another (with a few exceptions of course). It is because we interact with consistent personas that we come to believe that we know ‘who’ we all are. It takes something special to feel like we know one another well without having met one another in person, and TL has captured that magic. Before being a part of this community, I could have never imagined myself meeting someone from online – yet when the opportunity presented itself, I felt no hesitation to make it happen. It’s a sentiment that I know many others share on this site, having heard from them myself.
Hence you yourself should take advantage of the tremendous opportunity that TL offers you. But in order to meet people and feel comfortable about it, you need to know the others’ persona and more importantly, they need to know yours and be confident in it. For this to happen, you need to interact with others actively – be it through discussions, writing, drawing, talking, playing, coding, flaming, joking, translating, whining, uploading. The bottom line is that you need to make yourself heard and make yourself seen. That doesn’t mean spam a thousand posts a week in live report threads – that does nothing to depict who you are as a person except that you have way too much time on your hands and your sleep pattern is messed up (like mine was during college). If you love to live report, by all means keep doing it. But without participating in something that will actually show people who you are and why they should give a two shits, you are never going to be able to form a character that people will recognize and remember. There are people with 200 posts with clearly defined personas, while there are plenty others with thousands of posts who are but vague recollections in others’ minds.
Make your time here meaningful and actually be a part of its community. Otherwise, why are you even here?
from the replies:
On December 17 2008 01:40 Xusneb wrote:I've been a lurker for a long time so this is just from my perspective. WHY DO I LURK? I've been visiting TL frequently for over four years and I've only started posting recently. I didn't even make an account until a few years into my visits. I think there's a few reasons for this. In real life, when you 'post' an opinion, you usually get a response. When I discuss a topic with a friend, there is real-time rapport as we exchange ideas. This conversation is what we're used to - this back and forth talk. There are many differences online. On the internet, when one posts an opinion, there is a chance for a response. Someone might quote you, although more often than not it's to laugh at you or ridicule you. For less articulated individuals such as myself, my ideas may be taken out of context. Then, by the time I find out, the topic is 10 days old and closed. But the vast majority of the time, nothing happens. Noone quotes you and your opinion is not acknowledged as the later posts soon leave your ideas isolated on page 3 or something. This is so darn different from what I'm used to. I remember I posted a bit earlier in my years thinking to myself "wow, people are gonna love this idea! I wonder how many people will share these beliefs and respond with their own stories?" However, to my disappointment, my "brilliant insight" was completely overlooked as the next posts devolved into a flame war. As this kept happening, the negative reinforcement just turned me off posting online, anywhere. What was the point? People online ignore you whereas people in real life listen to my rants and respond with rants of their own. This was my mentality as a lurker. Personally speaking as a science major, I think our brains are hard-wired to behave a certain way. We've evolved to be used to real-life circumstances where our insatiable hunger for social acceptance is more easily appeased. Things are different online but luckily for us homo sapiens, we can adapt to new situations and environments. Of course, the story doesn't end there. I'm typing this up and I've overcome my "lurking". One day, I just realized the internet isn't real life. There are differences, for better or for worse, and I have to just accept them. To function socially online, I realized I had to abandon my excessive real-life social needs for acknowledgment and acceptance. Actually, I also analyzed my own behaviour on these forums. I mean, as a lurker, I'm part of the problem. I'm not acknowledging people! Too often, I just read their comments, think "wow, that was interesting", and move on. I could have easily quoted the man and commented "thanks for sharing!". Bam, problem solved. Plus, I realized that everytime I post something, people will read it. TL has a large community and I'm sure someone will read my post even if they don't physically acknowledge it with a quote or comment. Knowing that 1) online isn't real life; 2) I'm part of the problem; and 3) people are reading my posts, has really helped me shed my lurking skin. So to the lurkers that share my views, I advise you to post. If a topic irks you, post your opinion. If someone says something completely wrong about something, don't be afraid to correct him with your expert knowledge. If you feel you have something more to add to a topic, add it! You may not get acknowledged all the time like in real life but you will be getting through to real people. Anyways, this is all opinion. I hope someone reads it! 
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Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
SIR YES SIR!
EDIT: only a minute? fuck it felt like ages.
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awesome. sticky this?
just curious, what made you write this? it seems to have come from nowhere.
and why is your post count going backwards?
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
i know all sorts of powerful people
they always like me
probably because i don't lick their balls like most people
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i think i know the "one" person :p
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
maybe i should have given this a proper title haha.
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Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
Or I'll just give it a little bump in the right direction.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
I wholeheartedly agree with the greater participation part of people that visit teamliquid.net daily.
I don't agree with a few things though, good op regardless. I will add a little more later but now I have to run to work.
+ Show Spoiler +9*. Lurking for a few weeks or a couple of months until you the feel for the forum is fine, but lurking for years just makes you a selfish member. i.e. There is no good reason to lurk for months on end; either you are a selfish prick, and are here just to take, or a coward too afraid to post.. also not posting to "get back at teamliquid" just makes you a passive-aggressive lamer. If you are going to spend time here, participate, add, share. No matter the excuse there is got to be something good in you worth sharing. *obvious handicaps excluded (physical and virtual, like getting banned etc.. ). http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=59762
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
I'm always at the events - although during finals I'm especially AWOL (usually down at the front taking photos.) However, it's been a lot of fun to meet tl-ers in Seoul - I've met a lot of people (some more recently than others.) and I'm always willing to at least have a quick chat during the events with foreign fans (or non tl-netters even.) It's just that sometimes the whole work element gets in the way of socialising during the events (not that I mind once I get lost in taking pics lol.)
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
that was an inspirational read 
<3 hajime
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haji I want to meet you sometime!
You could also point out that a lot of the coolest most recent TL features stem from making contacts at WCG/Blizzcon/etc.
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Jeesh, now I guess I need to stop making excuses like "its 94 miles each way to the San Mateo LAN" and "I will have so much work from the break piled up..."
Damn you haji!
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
I drove 500 miles to Anaheim and back AND suffered a speeding ticket and it was all worth it!
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er why does your profile have something that looks a lot like travian. are you playing another season?
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On December 17 2008 01:06 maleorderbride wrote:
er why does your profile have something that looks a lot like travian. are you playing another season?
that's my original travian coord haha.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
chill how many miles did we fly to paris?
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I've been a lurker for a long time so this is just from my perspective.
WHY DO I LURK?
I've been visiting TL frequently for over four years and I've only started posting recently. I didn't even make an account until a few years into my visits. I think there's a few reasons for this.
In real life, when you 'post' an opinion, you usually get a response. When I discuss a topic with a friend, there is real-time rapport as we exchange ideas. This conversation is what we're used to - this back and forth talk.
There are many differences online. On the internet, when one posts an opinion, there is a chance for a response. Someone might quote you, although more often than not it's to laugh at you or ridicule you. For less articulated individuals such as myself, my ideas may be taken out of context. Then, by the time I find out, the topic is 10 days old and closed. But the vast majority of the time, nothing happens. Noone quotes you and your opinion is not acknowledged as the later posts soon leave your ideas isolated on page 3 or something.
This is so darn different from what I'm used to. I remember I posted a bit earlier in my years thinking to myself "wow, people are gonna love this idea! I wonder how many people will share these beliefs and respond with their own stories?" However, to my disappointment, my "brilliant insight" was completely overlooked as the next posts devolved into a flame war. As this kept happening, the negative reinforcement just turned me off posting online, anywhere. What was the point? People online ignore you whereas people in real life listen to my rants and respond with rants of their own. This was my mentality as a lurker.
Personally speaking as a science major, I think our brains are hard-wired to behave a certain way. We've evolved to be used to real-life circumstances where our insatiable hunger for social acceptance is more easily appeased. Things are different online but luckily for us homo sapiens, we can adapt to new situations and environments.
Of course, the story doesn't end there. I'm typing this up and I've overcome my "lurking". One day, I just realized the internet isn't real life. There are differences, for better or for worse, and I have to just accept them. To function socially online, I realized I had to abandon my excessive real-life social needs for acknowledgment and acceptance. Actually, I also analyzed my own behaviour on these forums. I mean, as a lurker, I'm part of the problem. I'm not acknowledging people! Too often, I just read their comments, think "wow, that was interesting", and move on. I could have easily quoted the man and commented "thanks for sharing!". Bam, problem solved. Plus, I realized that everytime I post something, people will read it. TL has a large community and I'm sure someone will read my post even if they don't physically acknowledge it with a quote or comment. Knowing that 1) online isn't real life; 2) I'm part of the problem; and 3) people are reading my posts, has really helped me shed my lurking skin.
So to the lurkers that share my views, I advise you to post. If a topic irks you, post your opinion. If someone says something completely wrong about something, don't be afraid to correct him with your expert knowledge. If you feel you have something more to add to a topic, add it! You may not get acknowledged all the time like in real life but you will be getting through to real people.
Anyways, this is all opinion. I hope someone reads it!
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Sometimes I'm to lazy to even login to state an opinion...
I guess this sums up my individuality...Oh and I had lurked for about 6 months before creating an account (which was in Dec of 2007) then had to lurk another 4 months before a tl.netizen (which referred me to the site) contacted meat so he could activate my account b/c for some reason my yahoo wasn't receiving the confirmation e-mail....Most of the time I only (edit)feel good about posting in the high thread...I should join a pot forum even thou I only smoke about 3-5 times a year currently...
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On December 17 2008 01:40 Xusneb wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I've been a lurker for a long time so this is just from my perspective. WHY DO I LURK? I've been visiting TL frequently for over four years and I've only started posting recently. I didn't even make an account until a few years into my visits. I think there's a few reasons for this. In real life, when you 'post' an opinion, you usually get a response. When I discuss a topic with a friend, there is real-time rapport as we exchange ideas. This conversation is what we're used to - this back and forth talk. There are many differences online. On the internet, when one posts an opinion, there is a chance for a response. Someone might quote you, although more often than not it's to laugh at you or ridicule you. For less articulated individuals such as myself, my ideas may be taken out of context. Then, by the time I find out, the topic is 10 days old and closed. But the vast majority of the time, nothing happens. Noone quotes you and your opinion is not acknowledged as the later posts soon leave your ideas isolated on page 3 or something. This is so darn different from what I'm used to. I remember I posted a bit earlier in my years thinking to myself "wow, people are gonna love this idea! I wonder how many people will share these beliefs and respond with their own stories?" However, to my disappointment, my "brilliant insight" was completely overlooked as the next posts devolved into a flame war. As this kept happening, the negative reinforcement just turned me off posting online, anywhere. What was the point? People online ignore you whereas people in real life listen to my rants and respond with rants of their own. This was my mentality as a lurker. Personally speaking as a science major, I think our brains are hard-wired to behave a certain way. We've evolved to be used to real-life circumstances where our insatiable hunger for social acceptance is more easily appeased. Things are different online but luckily for us homo sapiens, we can adapt to new situations and environments. Of course, the story doesn't end there. I'm typing this up and I've overcome my "lurking". One day, I just realized the internet isn't real life. There are differences, for better or for worse, and I have to just accept them. To function socially online, I realized I had to abandon my excessive real-life social needs for acknowledgment and acceptance. Actually, I also analyzed my own behaviour on these forums. I mean, as a lurker, I'm part of the problem. I'm not acknowledging people! Too often, I just read their comments, think "wow, that was interesting", and move on. I could have easily quoted the man and commented "thanks for sharing!". Bam, problem solved. Plus, I realized that everytime I post something, people will read it. TL has a large community and I'm sure someone will read my post even if they don't physically acknowledge it with a quote or comment. Knowing that 1) online isn't real life; 2) I'm part of the problem; and 3) people are reading my posts, has really helped me shed my lurking skin. So to the lurkers that share my views, I advise you to post. If a topic irks you, post your opinion. If someone says something completely wrong about something, don't be afraid to correct him with your expert knowledge. If you feel you have something more to add to a topic, add it! You may not get acknowledged all the time like in real life but you will be getting through to real people. Anyways, this is all opinion. I hope someone reads it!
Great post 
so true
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in response to Xusneb's post i agree
i'd also like to add that if you don't agree with someone elses opinion, you are more than welcome to voice your disagreement. (before i type the next line, i want to note that TL has better quality posters than most other forums and has a surprisingly better average post response) however, it annoys me soooo much when people respond with a one line, or even one word, unintelligible answer. things like "rofl no, stfu noob" (which would hopefully and probably get you banned if a mod sees the post) or just a plain "um no". but there are still a couple of posters who insist on voicing their disagreement without giving the slightest hint of justification or reason.
the only reason i stick around and have stuck around TL for so long (and i'm sure most of you agree with this, or otherwise wouldn't be reading it) is because the TL community is more open to individuals and although we love to jump on bandwagons, we still acknowledge the "other side" and still give attention to "the other person's story". i hope this continues.
but anyways, i'm still somewhat (can't think of the right word) afraid of TL people because there are a lot of unknowns and insecurities that knowing a person irl wouldn't bring. also because of the sheer size of TL (though surprisingly for our numbers we don't have as active posting... but i guess that's because of spam reduction?) all these random names without faces seem ominous.
i know there's a ton of TL people in and around (within an hour or two drive) Toronto yet i've never met any of them. the world has gotten a lot smaller and, to be honest, perhaps i've bumped into some of you guys on the TTC and not even have noticed. coincidences happen all the time. i'm also kinda worried about first impressions. though on the other hand, ii always found it hilarious to call each other by id and not actual names.
i also agree with haji in that there's a lot of well contributing and active personas with low post counts and at the same time a ton of people i've never seen before with thousands of posts. i probably don't mind "useless" posts as much as most other people do (posts like, "great post, so true" haha, just kidding poilord) and i enjoy seeing posts like these because it tells me that other people have read and responded and gives a general consensus of approval or disapproval and where my personal opinion stands amidst it.
edit: i was just thinking, i kinda contradicted myself: i like nonsensical posts as long as they're positive and contributing (well, wouldn't really be nonsense then i guess). i just don't like nonsense posts that troll or degrade the previous poster
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United States37500 Posts
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i personally agree with haji, great post btw. I hope there were more events for people to go, and that it would be easier to go. Its quite hard to travel without money t.t
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I hereby dedicate this post to Not_Computer
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Great post, awsome ideas
woot for canada, i too live within 2hours of toronto
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On December 17 2008 05:39 poilord wrote:
I hereby dedicate this post to Not_Computer
thanks, good post! i totally agree!
XD
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ok, so when's the next chance to meet TL people in Europe?
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On December 17 2008 07:02 indecision wrote:
ok, so when's the next chance to meet TL people in Europe?
Whenever it is, let me know!
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Xusneb, I pretty much completely agree with your post. Sometimes I write out (not too much anymore) long posts and try to say something super intelligent to spark some sort of conversation only to have it end as the last post on the page. Then, after its posted it is over looked by someone posting something irrelevant or just flat out stupid bumping the thread to a new page.
In fact, sometimes I think that people will get quoted and posts will be discussed MORE if the content in them is completely ridiculous or just so wrong that everyone will feel the need to flame/tell them why they are wrong and what the right answer is. I really don't understand why we as forum readers feel the need to strongly discuss the stupid posts made by people rather than the really good ones? For example, If I were to just make a post saying "Haji you are a fucking faggot and this is a stupid idea" I can guarentee that that post would be quoted tons, I would be flamed, and probably eventually banned. It seems that those type of posting habits attract the most attention here.
Unfortunately I think we are all guilty of this, and usually if a thread is really really long and I come into it late (say its 10+ pages or so) I will usually skim over the medium to low length posts unless I see someone quoting a long post to respect it.
edit: btw, I probably perfectly fit the category of the poster who has been here since 2002 with over a thousand posts but no one has ever heard of me lol.
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On December 17 2008 04:54 RtS)Night[Mare wrote:
i personally agree with haji, great post btw. I hope there were more events for people to go, and that it would be easier to go. Its quite hard to travel without money t.t
Or without the ability to drive X(((((.
I recommend to all the high school people to not put academics over learning to drive, otherwise you end up in your first year of college and still can't drive hehe.
Luckily I can walk to semioldguys house from my dorm.
Edit: Great post haji!
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Netherlands6142 Posts
Good topic, in that it set me thinking. I've only been actively around for half a year or so so it may be too early to tell but up til now I met zero people. Sure I helped out, and got helped out, left and right but I don't really know anyone really (as far as 'being acquianted' goes, I wouldn't even know a first name of someone). I've tried contributing to the site by posting in the Small VOD topic a couple of times but I don't really have skills to contribute in any other way.
Making friends through the internet however is very real. I've made several friends and met several (international) people that I'd only know through MSN or w/e before. I helped them out in some way, they helped me out etc. You mention meet-ups and I've been toying with the idea of organising a OSL-finals (or w/e) all nighter for some time now (also I'd definitely try to attend one in travelling distance) and your topic just inspired me to make work of it It is true, so far I have only had positive experiences with meeting up with people who have a common interest or goal and I'd love to get more organised events in the neighbourhood.
Cheers
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Hey thanks for the reply! It's keeping me from lurking
I just want to add that I think TL is one of the best places for a lurker to start posting. The mods do a great job running a tight ship and trolls are frequently banned. A useless poster isn't allowed to run free posting single word responses ("LOL", "STFU", "QFT") everywhere. God, I used to browse the wow forums and I swear I lost a lot of brain cells there.
(Actually off on a tangent here: there are so many updates! Since I've been here I've seen TLPD, TSL, liquibitions, power rank, new forums etc. etc. Really great work by the dedicated staff. I was gonna write a blog about this but I guess it can be summed up in two words: TL ROCKS! :D)
As long as you write out an intelligible, thought-out post, you will be fine. Plus, this place is one of the most DIVERSE forums I've ever visited. Like haji said, there are scientists, lawyers, teachers, doctors in our midst. I believe the median age here is fairly high at least judging from some of the topics that spring up (5 page topics on astrophysics, finance, politics? Wow!). Yea, TL is a great place and it's just about the only forum I visit these days. Who knew that starcraft could bring together all these different kinds of people?
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CA10828 Posts
i went to blizzcon and honestly it was probably the highlight of my semester. it was really a lot of fun meeting everyone from TL (plexa, LR, haji, zatic, sog, intrigue, chill, pano, spiral, tuna, etc etc etc)
and if you go to something like blizzcon and someone asks who you are, please don't say "you wouldn't know me, i'm just a lurker" if you have an account. just say your username so when i get back on TL and i see your (rare) post i have some name-face recognition going on.
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When I went to the OSL final party at semioldguy's place, I felt a lot less uncomfortable than I thought I would. I've never seen a forum with such a sense of community as TL has. It's really amazing.
I owe a lot to this place I think, and I intend on sticking around for a long time.
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I visit TL daily since 2002, as you can see my post count does not reflect the time I am with TL community. It is because I think If i don't have anything important or nice to say about something i read, I try my best to not say any at all.
TL however is a lot more than a source for entertainment. like the OP said there are many well educated people visit here, few PHDs, few masters, and many future achievers. The community members use these resource in ways of mutual benefit. I myself was guilty of asking Mani for an Interview as it was part of my graduate study. (thanks again Mani)
In reflection of the very limited posts I have made throughout these past 6+ years visiting TL daily. I asked myself what did I give? Honestly, I didn't give much at all, people who benefited from my posts are very limited. I tried to offer tips on how to debate an argument in many of my posts, however, my choice of words are extremely due to my inflated ego, and in many ways the posts were way to long to read. Other than the very few that is engaged, the rest I assumed did not read any of them. And those few that are actually engaged can't stand my inflated ego to see past the words and see whatever effort I was trying to make.
There I will label myself as a leecher, but I am willing to share, anyone need help on a Chinese - English translation, any physics or math related problems, tips in knowledge acquisition strategies, I will try my best to help.
PS. in reference to OP, I belief my limited posts reflect my persona very well, more so that in real life discussions.
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college students are poor T_T
and busy with school...
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Quesadilla is your CD on itunes yet?
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On December 17 2008 07:56 LosingID8 wrote:
and if you go to something like blizzcon and someone asks who you are, please don't say "you wouldn't know me, i'm just a lurker" if you have an account. just say your username so when i get back on TL and i see your (rare) post i have some name-face recognition going on.
I was extremely surprised by how many people at Blizzcon recognized my account name despite my low post count.
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On December 17 2008 03:19 poilord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 01:40 Xusneb wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I've been a lurker for a long time so this is just from my perspective. WHY DO I LURK? I've been visiting TL frequently for over four years and I've only started posting recently. I didn't even make an account until a few years into my visits. I think there's a few reasons for this. In real life, when you 'post' an opinion, you usually get a response. When I discuss a topic with a friend, there is real-time rapport as we exchange ideas. This conversation is what we're used to - this back and forth talk. There are many differences online. On the internet, when one posts an opinion, there is a chance for a response. Someone might quote you, although more often than not it's to laugh at you or ridicule you. For less articulated individuals such as myself, my ideas may be taken out of context. Then, by the time I find out, the topic is 10 days old and closed. But the vast majority of the time, nothing happens. Noone quotes you and your opinion is not acknowledged as the later posts soon leave your ideas isolated on page 3 or something. This is so darn different from what I'm used to. I remember I posted a bit earlier in my years thinking to myself "wow, people are gonna love this idea! I wonder how many people will share these beliefs and respond with their own stories?" However, to my disappointment, my "brilliant insight" was completely overlooked as the next posts devolved into a flame war. As this kept happening, the negative reinforcement just turned me off posting online, anywhere. What was the point? People online ignore you whereas people in real life listen to my rants and respond with rants of their own. This was my mentality as a lurker. Personally speaking as a science major, I think our brains are hard-wired to behave a certain way. We've evolved to be used to real-life circumstances where our insatiable hunger for social acceptance is more easily appeased. Things are different online but luckily for us homo sapiens, we can adapt to new situations and environments. Of course, the story doesn't end there. I'm typing this up and I've overcome my "lurking". One day, I just realized the internet isn't real life. There are differences, for better or for worse, and I have to just accept them. To function socially online, I realized I had to abandon my excessive real-life social needs for acknowledgment and acceptance. Actually, I also analyzed my own behaviour on these forums. I mean, as a lurker, I'm part of the problem. I'm not acknowledging people! Too often, I just read their comments, think "wow, that was interesting", and move on. I could have easily quoted the man and commented "thanks for sharing!". Bam, problem solved. Plus, I realized that everytime I post something, people will read it. TL has a large community and I'm sure someone will read my post even if they don't physically acknowledge it with a quote or comment. Knowing that 1) online isn't real life; 2) I'm part of the problem; and 3) people are reading my posts, has really helped me shed my lurking skin. So to the lurkers that share my views, I advise you to post. If a topic irks you, post your opinion. If someone says something completely wrong about something, don't be afraid to correct him with your expert knowledge. If you feel you have something more to add to a topic, add it! You may not get acknowledged all the time like in real life but you will be getting through to real people. Anyways, this is all opinion. I hope someone reads it! Great post so true
true dat. Very interesting too...
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On December 16 2008 21:37 29 fps wrote:
awesome. sticky this?
just curious, what made you write this? it seems to have come from nowhere.
and why is your post count going backwards?
I might be able to answer for that.
Haji you aren't studying for your interviews are you :p
Excellent post, though should it come at a different time it'd make me feel better~
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CA10828 Posts
On December 17 2008 09:02 ShadowDrgn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 07:56 LosingID8 wrote:
and if you go to something like blizzcon and someone asks who you are, please don't say "you wouldn't know me, i'm just a lurker" if you have an account. just say your username so when i get back on TL and i see your (rare) post i have some name-face recognition going on. I was extremely surprised by how many people at Blizzcon recognized my account name despite my low post count.
perhaps that's testament to how much time we spend browsing TL hahaha
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Yeah, that's what I figured. Haji knew who I was, and I knew him as the guy with like 30,000 posts, which he seemed somewhat embarrassed about.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
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Excellent post... It feels good to be able to get on the computer and log on and talk to people with the same interests as you, or just the random jargon of the day.
P.S. Anyone live in Northern Michigan?
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On December 17 2008 08:47 Kennigit wrote:
Quesadilla is your CD on itunes yet?
In process... How did you know? Haha. It's up on a few other places
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Daug pound im a huge fan.
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On December 17 2008 01:40 Xusneb wrote:I've been a lurker for a long time so this is just from my perspective. WHY DO I LURK? I've been visiting TL frequently for over four years and I've only started posting recently. I didn't even make an account until a few years into my visits. I think there's a few reasons for this. In real life, when you 'post' an opinion, you usually get a response. When I discuss a topic with a friend, there is real-time rapport as we exchange ideas. This conversation is what we're used to - this back and forth talk. There are many differences online. On the internet, when one posts an opinion, there is a chance for a response. Someone might quote you, although more often than not it's to laugh at you or ridicule you. For less articulated individuals such as myself, my ideas may be taken out of context. Then, by the time I find out, the topic is 10 days old and closed. But the vast majority of the time, nothing happens. Noone quotes you and your opinion is not acknowledged as the later posts soon leave your ideas isolated on page 3 or something. This is so darn different from what I'm used to. I remember I posted a bit earlier in my years thinking to myself "wow, people are gonna love this idea! I wonder how many people will share these beliefs and respond with their own stories?" However, to my disappointment, my "brilliant insight" was completely overlooked as the next posts devolved into a flame war. As this kept happening, the negative reinforcement just turned me off posting online, anywhere. What was the point? People online ignore you whereas people in real life listen to my rants and respond with rants of their own. This was my mentality as a lurker. Personally speaking as a science major, I think our brains are hard-wired to behave a certain way. We've evolved to be used to real-life circumstances where our insatiable hunger for social acceptance is more easily appeased. Things are different online but luckily for us homo sapiens, we can adapt to new situations and environments. Of course, the story doesn't end there. I'm typing this up and I've overcome my "lurking". One day, I just realized the internet isn't real life. There are differences, for better or for worse, and I have to just accept them. To function socially online, I realized I had to abandon my excessive real-life social needs for acknowledgment and acceptance. Actually, I also analyzed my own behaviour on these forums. I mean, as a lurker, I'm part of the problem. I'm not acknowledging people! Too often, I just read their comments, think "wow, that was interesting", and move on. I could have easily quoted the man and commented "thanks for sharing!". Bam, problem solved. Plus, I realized that everytime I post something, people will read it. TL has a large community and I'm sure someone will read my post even if they don't physically acknowledge it with a quote or comment. Knowing that 1) online isn't real life; 2) I'm part of the problem; and 3) people are reading my posts, has really helped me shed my lurking skin. So to the lurkers that share my views, I advise you to post. If a topic irks you, post your opinion. If someone says something completely wrong about something, don't be afraid to correct him with your expert knowledge. If you feel you have something more to add to a topic, add it! You may not get acknowledged all the time like in real life but you will be getting through to real people. Anyways, this is all opinion. I hope someone reads it!
hehe lurker...
STOP LURKERRR he's gonna realseee <-- sadly that's the first thing i though of reading hte first 2 lines of this post... rofl
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16987 Posts
Hmm, when Nony comes back to the states I think he should pay a little visit to his alma mater so we can hang out!
Yay I heart Nony
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My balls itch.
Wait, what?
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<3 TL
Peace, love, and good happenin' stuff. Great read, thanks for the awesome post haji!
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United States17042 Posts
blizzcon was amazing xD
It was the highlight of my quarter as well, by far.
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in light of this post and the lurker one, i have recently started posting. ( for all those who can see beyond apparent motives, yes i am bumping this thread so it gets more exposure)
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mm quite true. Heh makes me feel bad about being way too much of a recluse in high school and such.
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On December 18 2008 08:54 DJEtterStyle wrote:
My balls itch.
Wait, what?
^_^
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hi haji, intrigue, neo, zatic, chava, chill, LosingID8, etc :33333
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On December 21 2008 17:01 Ilikestarcraft wrote:^_^
I think his writing hand has boosted to 110% !!!!!
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I really enjoyed reading that haji... Although some of it hit pretty close to home for me. I'm halfway through my 3rd undergrad year at UConn and i don't think i've developed any semblance of a 'network.' I've made friends and stuff here and there, although recently I've begun keeping to myself more and more. Not sure why i do it. I don't exactly enjoy it, and i'm not sure how to change it. See the thing is, more and more i hear people talk about the importance of building a network at college, that most jobs are gotten this way - through your contacts, rather than sending resumes to companies. I don't know exactly how to go about building this network; through my life i have never been too adept at socializing with strangers (ironically, i probably have BW to thank for this). It makes me scared for my future, to be honest. I don't know what I'm going to do.
Sorry for rambling a bit about my life there, it's late and and i'm tired. Does anyone else have difficulty with this like i do? Were you able to overcome it? I would really appreciate any advice
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So mom...i was thinking about flying to the other side of the country to meet some people i know from the internet. Probably even sleep in the same room as them, and participate underage consumption of alcohol. I'll be back tuesday.
Too bad there's nobody in the midwest  (hi bio/sadist)
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On December 16 2008 22:04 Rekrul wrote:
i know all sorts of powerful people
they always like me
probably because i don't lick their balls like most people
I don't understand why the neurons firing off in your inactive deflated egg brain give you the impulse to type this.
True, you do need to reinforce the "i am rekrul persona: I drink beer, know tons of programmers, go to bars/whorehouse every other night, i make lot of blogs showing how awesome I am, etc etc"
And although sadly the tl populace in general raves for your heavenly stories, I'm sure by now we all fully worship your amazingness to the fullest extent.
So why I'm confused is why you're telling us 'cool people like me cuz i act cool.'
Not that you are trolling, it is relevant to haji's post, but haji's post is a very good post with the potential to strike up plenty of material. You don't need to defile it with a generic statement of how cool you are and why your cool buddies like you because we've already heard it many times in many forms and after a while, even your most devout worshiper won't care! In my bw analogy, It's like those disgusting lastshadow/ambrosia trash who abuse D-'s x20 and get beautiful pgt reps and go around singing "look @ me, i'm a gosu." True gosus like nony/day have the ability to cause others to want to advertise their amazing skills for them.
B/c I'm too lazy, I'm not going to go digging up quotes of you from previous posts.
However, I'm sure the majority of your posts which aren't about your amazinglife/poker/bw/insults to others/random flames/ is a post which translates to "i'm rekrul, i'm a E-cool"
sorry to make flame post --;
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jesus christ, it's rekrul. just accept his attention whoring, it's who he is. he knows this and accepts it. just let him say shit like that.
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On December 21 2008 17:30 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:I really enjoyed reading that haji... Although some of it hit pretty close to home for me. I'm halfway through my 3rd undergrad year at UConn and i don't think i've developed any semblance of a 'network.' I've made friends and stuff here and there, although recently I've begun keeping to myself more and more. Not sure why i do it. I don't exactly enjoy it, and i'm not sure how to change it. See the thing is, more and more i hear people talk about the importance of building a network at college, that most jobs are gotten this way - through your contacts, rather than sending resumes to companies. I don't know exactly how to go about building this network; through my life i have never been too adept at socializing with strangers (ironically, i probably have BW to thank for this). It makes me scared for my future, to be honest. I don't know what I'm going to do. Sorry for rambling a bit about my life there, it's late and and i'm tired. Does anyone else have difficulty with this like i do? Were you able to overcome it? I would really appreciate any advice
I have the exact same problem, and wonder about my future with the exact same thoughts...
Luckily for me, I'll most likely work in a field that is very similar to my father's, thus I may end up utilizing his network (which has already started to some extent with his help, for like summer jobs and stuff like that). If you're not lucky like I am, I don't know what I could say to help you - I'm also curious about this question.
I'm not sure however, that having a fully operational "network" of people you know at uni is necessary. I think having a few friends / acquintances / whatever may work out just as well later on.
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On December 21 2008 17:41 decafchicken wrote:So mom...i was thinking about flying to the other side of the country to meet some people i know from the internet. Probably even sleep in the same room as them, and participate underage consumption of alcohol. I'll be back tuesday. Too bad there's nobody in the midwest (hi bio/sadist)
Come visit me?
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On December 21 2008 17:55 kdog3683 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2008 22:04 Rekrul wrote:
i know all sorts of powerful people
they always like me
probably because i don't lick their balls like most people I don't understand why the neurons firing off in your inactive deflated egg brain give you the impulse to type this. True, you do need to reinforce the "i am rekrul persona: I drink beer, know tons of programmers, go to bars/whorehouse every other night, i make lot of blogs showing how awesome I am, etc etc" And although sadly the tl populace in general raves for your heavenly stories, I'm sure by now we all fully worship your amazingness to the fullest extent. So why I'm confused is why you're telling us 'cool people like me cuz i act cool.' Not that you are trolling, it is relevant to haji's post, but haji's post is a very good post with the potential to strike up plenty of material. You don't need to defile it with a generic statement of how cool you are and why your cool buddies like you because we've already heard it many times in many forms and after a while, even your most devout worshiper won't care! In my bw analogy, It's like those disgusting lastshadow/ambrosia trash who abuse D-'s x20 and get beautiful pgt reps and go around singing "look @ me, i'm a gosu." True gosus like nony/day have the ability to cause others to want to advertise their amazing skills for them. B/c I'm too lazy, I'm not going to go digging up quotes of you from previous posts. However, I'm sure the majority of your posts which aren't about your amazinglife/poker/bw/insults to others/random flames/ is a post which translates to "i'm rekrul, i'm a E-cool" sorry to make flame post --;
LOOOOOOOOOOOOL i only skimmed the first half of his post where he was talking about its all about who you meet / know then i got bored and just typed that and moved on
and fwiw meeting the right people is not about 'being cool' or 'the man' or anything you might be stupid enough to think i was implying
don't get all butthurt cause i wrote the word powerful
whore houses are not cool btw, i promote against them and i also promote against progamers attending them, if you missed my thread a while back.
and if you think most of my posts are about 'how cool i am' well...they are...but if you were smart maybe you'd realize its all satirical
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
man now you've inspired me to write about a near death experience rolling (figuratively in two ways) with the yak just to spite you
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
and now that i've read hajis post
I COMPLETELY disagree with the going to LANs or meeting ppl irl stuff
it changes everything, ppl who hated eachother online instantly become friends everytime, it crushes all e-drama and is terrible
i mean before meeting incontrol i would flame him liberally whenever i felt like it
now after seeing just how massive he is i can't : (
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Yeah, but inc is a sweetheart. Like the cowardly lion from wizard of oz, if it had consumed elephant growth hormones.
So you have any plans to deal with that inactive deflated egg brain thing he was talking about? Sounds kind of serious.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
i've been dealing with it for like 3-4 months now since i temporarily rehabed myself by leaving korea
i'm really sharp again, don't know what he's talking about
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"deflated egg brain", he was really aiming for your feelings there... damn... <
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Very nice post by you Haji! I wholeheartedly agree with your statements in being a part of the community.
I mean: there is the "observers" and the "observed" so to speak. You always want to be the latter, obviously (look at Rek, mang!! haha). If you take part in a community, people will recognize you and give you credit for your contributions. Now while doing this on the internet might not have the immediate effect similiar to doing this in real life, there still are benefits as you described them already in the OP.
I always thought of communities and forums as being lame and I would never get hooked to anything like that. Well, turns out that TL.net proved me wrong. I spend so much time here nowadays, I browse TL.net more than I browse newspages (yeah wth, they are lame anyways) and even at work I try to browse and read TL all the time. The Pusan banner even gave me some strange looks from colleagues, hahahaha. Well fuck em, Spirit-Toss is win. :D
I think a lot of the people on TL.net wish they could visit such a great event as WWI or Blizzcon or WCG for that matter. Because of the event itself (obviously) but moreso to meet the people that "hide" behind their online avatars.
I, myself, wanted to visit WCG Cologne this year... me living in Germany and all, but sadly I couldn't come. I bet it would have been great if I went but sometimes real-life bitchslaps you in da face.
However, I just wanted to voice my opinion here Hope you guys will come out of your closets (uh oh...) and be part of this wonderful community. Seriously (yes, seriously.. like the OP's title), TL.net is the best online place ever- hope to see everyone participate even more now.
My 2 cents
Peace
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ROFL "inactive deflated egg brain". Definitely stealing that one.
I'm never been to a LAN myself so I can't really comment on that. But the general theme of networking and just getting out and meeting new people in any way is so important. I really fucked up during my uni years by not doing this. Got too lazy and just kept it close with a small group of friends. But in hindsight, really, really stupid.
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I define the whole act of getting to know the people who will be important later on so you can ask favors of them, wile returning them when asked for networking.
While i think networking is indeed very efficient if you want to get things done in the future, you can't omit the fact that networking itself costs a lot of time. Not only need you to initiate your network, you have to maintain it as well.
It comes down to lifestyle. If you want to achieve certain things in your life, no matter what, I think networking is a very efficient way. If however, you think the road is more important than the goal, the benifits of networking dwindle. Since the goal is not that important to you, the time you spend on networking can become a burden on your road.
Some people like the networking act; then it's a good road for you no matter what. But me for instance, i am healthy, my familiy is healthy. I don't have any goals which are more important than their respective roads. So for me, networking is not the most efficient way per se.
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EPT
