EPTThat's Canadian politics in a nutshell...
Canada's Government To Be Ousted? - Page 5
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Flaccid
8929 Posts
That's Canadian politics in a nutshell... | ||
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Flaccid
8929 Posts
On December 02 2008 04:53 Flaccid wrote: I voted conservative and yet I can't wait to see them booted from power. That's Canadian politics in a nutshell... Nevermind. I just read that Dion has been elected to lead a Lib-NDP coalition. Fuck that. He's the reason I didn't vote Liberal in the first place. Give me any of the other leadership candidates and I'll be happy. | ||
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a-game
Canada5214 Posts
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rKos
Finland131 Posts
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Showtime!
Canada2938 Posts
On December 02 2008 04:53 Flaccid wrote: I voted conservative and yet I can't wait to see them booted from power. That's Canadian politics in a nutshell... Wait. What?!?!? What the hell were you thinking when you voted them if you weren't happy with them to begin with? People need to educate themselves better. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
It is a risky move, but potentially gets them a majority next election. | ||
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Flaccid
8929 Posts
On December 02 2008 05:40 Showtime! wrote: Wait. What?!?!? What the hell were you thinking when you voted them if you weren't happy with them to begin with? People need to educate themselves better. 'happy' is somewhat of a relative term. And when it's relative to groups led by the likes of Dion and Layton, it all gets a little fuzzy =[ Like so many elections, unfortunately it came down to choosing the lesser of many evils. edit: To be honest, I looked for every reason not to vote Conservative this time around. I wanted to vote Liberal but it all came down to Dion. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and read his entire Green Shift plan from cover to cover and found it to be one of the most poorly disguised wealth-transfer programs we've had since the NEP. A coalition led by the likes of Ignatieff would be alright with me, given that the Liberals would have gotten my vote anyways if he were in charge at election-time. But now that Dion is back in the picture, I can't be enthusiastic. Add to that Jack Layton's closer proximity to a position of power and the enthusiasm level drops further. Oh, and then there's the Bloc... Hopefully that explains my convoluted view a bit better. | ||
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HumbleZealot
Canada508 Posts
On December 02 2008 07:19 Flaccid wrote: 'happy' is somewhat of a relative term. And when it's relative to groups led by the likes of Dion and Layton, it all gets a little fuzzy =[ Like so many elections, unfortunately it came down to choosing the lesser of many evils. edit: To be honest, I looked for every reason not to vote Conservative this time around. I wanted to vote Liberal but it all came down to Dion. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and read his entire Green Shift plan from cover to cover and found it to be one of the most poorly disguised wealth-transfer programs we've had since the NEP. A coalition led by the likes of Ignatieff would be alright with me, given that the Liberals would have gotten my vote anyways if he were in charge at election-time. But now that Dion is back in the picture, I can't be enthusiastic. Add to that Jack Layton's closer proximity to a position of power and the enthusiasm level drops further. Oh, and then there's the Bloc... Hopefully that explains my convoluted view a bit better. As said before, Dion is merely an interm, he'll only be there for about 5-6 months and will then be replaced, most likely, by either Rae or Ignatieff. As bad as it may seem, please don't tell me you think Stephen "Hitler" Harper and his plan to financially cripple all other parties is actually a better choice. | ||
ManaBlue
Canada10458 Posts
If you Americans want a good measuring stick for what that means, imagine there was a national party based in Iowa called the "Fuck the USA, Every State Can Eat Shit Except Iowa!" Party, and they had the 4% of congressional seats to break the tie of any democratic or republican policy. Only in a nation of passive cows like Canada does this shit go on uncontested. It makes me want to puke. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
I'm just curious; I thought Quebec wanted to secede not too long ago. I thought Canadian's outside of Quebec strongly opposed this. If you guys want them around so bad, why resent their political participation? | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On December 02 2008 09:49 ManaBlue wrote: The thing that makes me really sick about this is that the bloc is going to have undeserved power in the house since this collection of table scraps they call a coalition will need their seats to govern. If you Americans want a good measuring stick for what that means, imagine there was a national party based in Iowa called the "Fuck the USA, Every State Can Eat Shit Except Iowa!" Party, and they had the 4% of congressional seats to break the tie of any democratic or republican policy. Only in a nation of passive cows like Canada does this shit go on uncontested. It makes me want to puke. eh theyre not going to get any cabinet positions. Bloc isnt going to really be involved in the government, and I don't think they really want to be. With the bloc, its more like, look nicely at the quebec lumber industry, and we'll make sure to help pass any votes of non-confidence. The coalition government would be Liberal-NDP with tacit Bloc support | ||
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Flaccid
8929 Posts
On December 02 2008 09:55 HeadBangaa wrote: You mean Louisiana? I'm just curious; I thought Quebec wanted to secede not too long ago. I thought Canadian's outside of Quebec strongly opposed this. If you guys want them around so bad, why resent their political participation? It's a bit more complicated than that, I suppose. To over-simplify the whole thing, Quebec politicians have for some time garnished support by playing to the fear that english Canada wants to assimilate the french-Canadian culture. So many Quebecers, whether in support of separation or not, vote for the Bloc party because they understand that their regional concerns will be dealt with. This party will fight entirely on their behalf. The sick part is that this could only really work in Quebec. In a country as large and diverse as Canada (much like the US), you are going to have a large variance in ideology from region to region. But whereas something like a 'western' separatist party would never work, it still holds water in Quebec due to our way of allotting parliamentary seats by population - Quebec gets a lot of seats. The end result is that Quebecers elect representatives that do not concern themselves with Canada as a whole. No one resents Quebec political participation - be it a Quebec Liberal or Quebec NDP, or Quebec whatever, but the resent the idea of the Bloc party. They blind themselves towards what is best for Canada as a whole while only looking out for their own interests. It's counter-productive and doesn't make for good national government. Nobody with any sense resents Quebec. Nobody resents their political participation. Though we may resent their representatives for being separatist, closed-minded, jerk-faces. | ||
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ManaBlue
Canada10458 Posts
On December 02 2008 09:55 HeadBangaa wrote: You mean Louisiana? I'm just curious; I thought Quebec wanted to secede not too long ago. I thought Canadian's outside of Quebec strongly opposed this. If you guys want them around so bad, why resent their political participation? No, they voted to stay a part of Canada. The awesome part of Quebec (non-separatist), decided to stay a part of the country and maintain our national identity. The lame part of Quebec (separatist) voted to stop paying taxes to the fed and announce international independence while continuing to take national transfer payments and use our currency. (ie. move out of your parents house but insist they still pay you an allowance) It's a good thing the awesome Quebecers voted it down, otherwise what followed would have been an embarrassing international incident as the separatists would claim they had a mandate from the people and the Canadian national government would tell them to stop their nonsense or actually be an independent nation, which they claimed to want but never intended from the beginning. And now those same assholes that Quebecers already showed they do not ideologically support are pushing their agenda nationally and have become the swing vote in a mishmash coalition government. It's fucking insanity. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
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a-game
Canada5214 Posts
curious if anyone else feels the same way! that last interview the conservative minister looked like he was going to cry lol | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
That said, I'm an english speaking guy and I'm getting the fuck outta here asap so i can get paid twice as much for my services in new york. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On December 02 2008 10:09 fusionsdf wrote: K, there is a difference between Government positions being filled by bloc members- and they wont be- and the Government not being made up by the bloc. The only way the coalition can, not just win the vote of no confidence, but hold a majority, is if the bloc forms the coalition as well. It gives them every bit of leverage on what already would be an incredibly unstable coalition, during an already incredibly unstable time. It's fucking ridiculous. Its insulting to patriots to have the Bloc part of the house of commons, let alone a coalition, and its fucking insulting to Canada's intelligence to even think this government has a remote chance of succeeding at anything.eh theyre not going to get any cabinet positions. Bloc isnt going to really be involved in the government, and I don't think they really want to be. With the bloc, its more like, look nicely at the Quebec lumber industry, and we'll make sure to help pass any votes of non-confidence. The coalition government would be Liberal-NDP with tacit Bloc support There are two possibilities right now: 1) The Coalition is formed 2) The Coalition breaks down and is not formed. If number 1 happens, there a few possibilities: 1) The Coalition collapses in a few months because of random bloc/liberal/ndp bickering 2) The Coalition is unable to decide on any real policies, unable to really do anything competently, and survives for a year or two and completly mismanages the country End result of both? Conservative majority. Possibilities if the coalition breaks down: 1) Harper runs the country well and the economy holds together 2) Harper runs the country well and the economy doesn't hold together 3) Harper doesn't run the country well and the economy doesn't hold together In this frame, Conservative support could fluctuate from a majority, to a thin minority, or even a categorical defeat. The country will have at least, a stable Government that can actually at least attempt to run the country. Cant be said for the Coalition. When it gets down to it, only the most fervent supporters of the Left parties, or the stupid, actually thinks what Dion is doing is a good idea. Thats it. | ||
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ManaBlue
Canada10458 Posts
He loses the election and then thinks he can pervert his party politics by pandering to an overtly socialist party that can barely maintain official party status due to a lack of support and a group of separatists who's sole function is to break down federalism in Canada. That's a fucking irony sandwich for ya. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
they wont be making policy, and its unclear whether they will have a bigger role under a coalition government than they have under the current government so far they havent asked for any concessions other than a possible bail-out/aid for quebec lumber industries as far as I know And I find it unlikely the coalition will fail, because a) liberals and ndp tend to agree on many points, b) its too politically expensive to fail. If the coalition collapses within a month, it will force a new election and both NDP and Liberals will get raped. It would be political suicide for the coalition to collapse, and neither party is suicidal. The more the Bloc associates themselves with the government, the worse off they are as far as support. Which is why youve heard no cabinet positions being offered or wanted by the bloc. Granted, some are saying the bloc might sabotage the coalition because they lose the least, but they dont exactly want harper back either, and if the coalition fails, it could easily lead to a harper majority. That is not something any of the three parties want, and why I predict a fairly moderate coalition government with some minor concessions to quebec in the form of lumber/manufacturing/culture programs | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
Edit: The Liberals and NDP do not agree on shit all. They agree on nominal ideological grounds; help the poor, help the environment, hate the Conservatives. In terms of actual interpretation of getting these things done, they differ hugely. The NDP are far left socialists. The Liberals are moderate, leaning to the left. There is a BIG fucking difference. Even with Dion in power.  | ||
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