On December 02 2008 11:09 fusionsdf wrote: yes, but the indication is that the blox will have little to do with the government outside of helping it pass votes of non-confidence
they wont be making policy, and its unclear whether they will have a bigger role under a coalition government than they have under the current government
so far they havent asked for any concessions other than a possible bail-out/aid for quebec lumber industries as far as I know
And I find it unlikely the coalition will fail, because a) liberals and ndp tend to agree on many points, b) its too politically expensive to fail. If the coalition collapses within a month, it will force a new election and both NDP and Liberals will get raped. It would be political suicide for the coalition to collapse, and neither party is suicidal.
The more the Bloc associates themselves with the government, the worse off they are as far as support. Which is why youve heard no cabinet positions being offered or wanted by the bloc.
Granted, some are saying the bloc might sabotage the coalition because they lose the least, but they dont exactly want harper back either, and if the coalition fails, it could easily lead to a harper majority. That is not something any of the three parties want, and why I predict a fairly moderate coalition government with some minor concessions to quebec in the form of lumber/manufacturing/culture programs
Don't tell me you're naive enough to think that the bloc will have such a minor role when their seats complete the majority. They won't scream it from the rooftops, just flex their muscles behind closed doors. To me, that's even worse than being up front and admitting their true role in this "coalition".
On December 02 2008 11:09 fusionsdf wrote: yes, but the indication is that the blox will have little to do with the government outside of helping it pass votes of non-confidence
they wont be making policy, and its unclear whether they will have a bigger role under a coalition government than they have under the current government
so far they havent asked for any concessions other than a possible bail-out/aid for quebec lumber industries as far as I know
And I find it unlikely the coalition will fail, because a) liberals and ndp tend to agree on many points, b) its too politically expensive to fail. If the coalition collapses within a month, it will force a new election and both NDP and Liberals will get raped. It would be political suicide for the coalition to collapse, and neither party is suicidal.
The more the Bloc associates themselves with the government, the worse off they are as far as support. Which is why youve heard no cabinet positions being offered or wanted by the bloc.
Granted, some are saying the bloc might sabotage the coalition because they lose the least, but they dont exactly want harper back either, and if the coalition fails, it could easily lead to a harper majority. That is not something any of the three parties want, and why I predict a fairly moderate coalition government with some minor concessions to quebec in the form of lumber/manufacturing/culture programs
Don't tell me you're naive enough to think that the bloc will have such a minor role when their seats complete the majority. They won't scream it from the rooftops, just flex their muscles behind closed doors. To me, that's even worse than being up front and admitting their true role in this "coalition".
I'm not naive. I'm just saying involving themselves in government would hurt them politically. And any sabotage of the coalition would likely bring a conservative majority and new election that they would be blamed for...and following the culture cuts, quebec isnt going to be too happy if the bloc brings in a conservative majority.
I'm not saying its guaranteed going to work, but the NDP and liberals are considering this, hence the negotiations.
And don't call me naive, I've probably read more about this than either of you
On December 02 2008 11:09 fusionsdf wrote: yes, but the indication is that the blox will have little to do with the government outside of helping it pass votes of non-confidence
they wont be making policy, and its unclear whether they will have a bigger role under a coalition government than they have under the current government
so far they havent asked for any concessions other than a possible bail-out/aid for quebec lumber industries as far as I know
And I find it unlikely the coalition will fail, because a) liberals and ndp tend to agree on many points, b) its too politically expensive to fail. If the coalition collapses within a month, it will force a new election and both NDP and Liberals will get raped. It would be political suicide for the coalition to collapse, and neither party is suicidal.
The more the Bloc associates themselves with the government, the worse off they are as far as support. Which is why youve heard no cabinet positions being offered or wanted by the bloc.
Granted, some are saying the bloc might sabotage the coalition because they lose the least, but they dont exactly want harper back either, and if the coalition fails, it could easily lead to a harper majority. That is not something any of the three parties want, and why I predict a fairly moderate coalition government with some minor concessions to quebec in the form of lumber/manufacturing/culture programs
Don't tell me you're naive enough to think that the bloc will have such a minor role when their seats complete the majority. They won't scream it from the rooftops, just flex their muscles behind closed doors. To me, that's even worse than being up front and admitting their true role in this "coalition".
well, the bloc signed an agreement to support all confidence votes for the coalition for 18 months.
now, i'm not sure how binding that agreement is (it seemed to me to be pretty binding), but it would seem as though the bloc has already gone past the point of no return.
their hands are now tied to support all confidence motions, which means they don't really have that much leverage. this really does seem to be a leap of faith by all the parties involved, i think harper just broke the last straw and got all the parties enraged enough to sign a 'ABC' pact (anything but conservative).
i'm actually a little surprised by all the anti-bloc hysteria, they aren't even real separatists imo, they're from a province just like any other MP and they're going to try to bring home the bacon to their constituents, just like any other MP. like fusion said, throw quebec a couple of bones and the bloc will be happy.
Edit: the policy of throwing quebec a couple of bones to keep them happy was the way the liberals governed for 15 years anyways. how is this new?
Edit: the policy of throwing quebec a couple of bones to keep them happy was the way the liberals governed for 15 years anyways. how is this new?
Haha. Except seperatists are gaining a bit strength again in Canada (once they figure out how to send non-conflicting message from their own party members). You should come to St-Jean Baptiste sometimes and see all the anti-Liberal chant going on there. I was right beside Gilles Duceppe (I was working there as security) and he was smiling for the short time he was there.
Seperatist movement is still strong and realistic- just not AS realistic as 1995.
No, they voted to stay a part of Canada. The awesome part of Quebec (non-separatist), decided to stay a part of the country and maintain our national identity. The lame part of Quebec (separatist) voted to stop paying taxes to the fed and announce international independence while continuing to take national transfer payments and use our currency. (ie. move out of your parents house but insist they still pay you an allowance)
It's a good thing the awesome Quebecers voted it down, otherwise what followed would have been an embarrassing international incident as the separatists would claim they had a mandate from the people and the Canadian national government would tell them to stop their nonsense or actually be an independent nation, which they claimed to want but never intended from the beginning.
And now those same assholes that Quebecers already showed they do not ideologically support are pushing their agenda nationally and have become the swing vote in a mishmash coalition government.
It's fucking insanity.
I think Quebec wants to become an independent nation because of people like you. I don't see why you call the part of Quebec that wants to stay as "awesome" and the one that wants to separate as "lame". Its kind of shows a poor understanding as to why Quebec wanted to separate in the first place. I think threatening to become independent is definitely helping the Quebec cause.
just to be clear, because flaccid said this in another thread, the Bloc will not play a formal role in the government. they won't sit on the government side of the house, they won't hold cabinet positions or any other government positions.
their support will be purely tacit, they've agreed to support all confidence motions for 18 months and will be occasionally consulted but other than that they won't be apart of the coalition.
On December 03 2008 06:15 a-game wrote: just to be clear, because flaccid said this in another thread, the Bloc will not play a formal role in the government. they won't sit on the government side of the house, they won't hold cabinet positions or any other government positions.
their support will be purely tacit, they've agreed to support all confidence motions for 18 months and will be occasionally consulted but other than that they won't be apart of the coalition.
Again, they have to be part of the coalition, the ndp and the liberals do not have enough seats. They HAVE to sit on the Government side of the house, because they will be part of the GOVERNMENT.
I just find the current state of Canadian politics... hilarious. There is just no way in hell anything will get done with a 3-party coalition. 2 party, maybe but 3 is just impossible. So we're going to have a prime minister that the majority do not want in power working together with separatists and a guy who just wants to spend money. They will argue for 6 months (I'm hoping less) and then dissolve. I don't know what this is going to accomplish other than pissing off a lot of people.
On December 03 2008 06:15 a-game wrote: just to be clear, because flaccid said this in another thread, the Bloc will not play a formal role in the government. they won't sit on the government side of the house, they won't hold cabinet positions or any other government positions.
their support will be purely tacit, they've agreed to support all confidence motions for 18 months and will be occasionally consulted but other than that they won't be apart of the coalition.
Again, they have to be part of the coalition, the ndp and the liberals do not have enough seats. They HAVE to sit on the Government side of the house, because they will be part of the GOVERNMENT.
Yeah.. but they wont take part of the "decision".
Yes, the bloc have sign for a 18month of "acceptence" with the Liberal and NPD.
Yes, in my opinion, this is the best thing for the country. I just F**kcing hate the <Conservateur>, Harper is jus tpalin stupid and arrogant. When the people are too stupid to do a correct vote (i'm not a liberal 100% but I do think it was the best choice), those kind of thing shoudl append to turn the ligh on for some ppl.
The US had the same problems IMO, they had 4 year of misary with Bush... then the stupid (not general to everyone) ppl in the US voted AGAIN for this retard governement and got4 more years that was even WORST then the 4 past one. If we don't want the same thnig append here.. they gota do this.
(btw, there is also all the finance problem that Harper doesn't work on but I'm bored to write for now..)
On December 03 2008 06:15 a-game wrote: just to be clear, because flaccid said this in another thread, the Bloc will not play a formal role in the government. they won't sit on the government side of the house, they won't hold cabinet positions or any other government positions.
their support will be purely tacit, they've agreed to support all confidence motions for 18 months and will be occasionally consulted but other than that they won't be apart of the coalition.
Again, they have to be part of the coalition, the ndp and the liberals do not have enough seats. They HAVE to sit on the Government side of the house, because they will be part of the GOVERNMENT.
they are not apart of the coalition, they are only agreeing to support the liberal-ndp coalition. it was reported on cbc news that the liberals and the ndp will sit together on the government side of the house, and split the cabinet positions 18 liberal 6 ndp. the bloc won't be apart of the government though.
please stop posting as if you know what you are talking about.
Edit: wow, just saw your latest post, seriously you have no idea how a minority government works. currently the conservatives have about 140 out of the 308 seats of parliament, and yet they are the only party sitting on the government side of the house. you don't need a majority of the seats to be the government, if you don't have a majority you are simply called a minority government, ie, you are the government despite not having enough seats to pass any votes by yourself.
the upcoming coalition government will have roughly 115 seats out of 308, and would be a minority government, except the bloc has signed an agreement to lend it's 50 seats to all confidence votes until june 2010. they will, however, remain in the opposition benches, as they are not apart of the government, they are just supporting it, like all minority governments need support of at least one opposition party.
On December 03 2008 06:15 a-game wrote: just to be clear, because flaccid said this in another thread, the Bloc will not play a formal role in the government. they won't sit on the government side of the house, they won't hold cabinet positions or any other government positions.
their support will be purely tacit, they've agreed to support all confidence motions for 18 months and will be occasionally consulted but other than that they won't be apart of the coalition.
Again, they have to be part of the coalition, the ndp and the liberals do not have enough seats. They HAVE to sit on the Government side of the house, because they will be part of the GOVERNMENT.
they are not apart of the coalition, they are only agreeing to support the liberal-ndp coalition. it was reported on cbc news that the liberals and the ndp will sit together on the government side of the house, and split the cabinet positions 18 liberal 6 ndp. the bloc won't be apart of the government though.
please stop posting as if you know what you are talking about.
The difference is mostly semantical. Even though the Bloc pledged not to oppose the coalition, it isn't binding. The Bloc will be consulted over everything, or the new government will sink down the drain.
On December 03 2008 06:15 a-game wrote: just to be clear, because flaccid said this in another thread, the Bloc will not play a formal role in the government. they won't sit on the government side of the house, they won't hold cabinet positions or any other government positions.
their support will be purely tacit, they've agreed to support all confidence motions for 18 months and will be occasionally consulted but other than that they won't be apart of the coalition.
Again, they have to be part of the coalition, the ndp and the liberals do not have enough seats. They HAVE to sit on the Government side of the house, because they will be part of the GOVERNMENT.
they are not apart of the coalition, they are only agreeing to support the liberal-ndp coalition. it was reported on cbc news that the liberals and the ndp will sit together on the government side of the house, and split the cabinet positions 18 liberal 6 ndp. the bloc won't be apart of the government though.
please stop posting as if you know what you are talking about.
Edit: wow, just saw your latest post, seriously you have no idea how a minority government works. currently the conservatives have about 140 out of the 308 seats of parliament, and yet they are the only party sitting on the government side of the house. you don't need a majority of the seats to be the government, if you don't have a majority you are simply called a minority government, ie, you are the government despite not having enough seats to pass any votes by yourself.
the upcoming coalition government will have roughly 115 seats out of 308, and would be a minority government, except the bloc has signed an agreement to lend it's 50 seats to all confidence votes until june 2010. they will, however, remain in the opposition benches, as they are not apart of the government, they are just supporting it, like all minority governments need support of at least one opposition party.
I said you have to be the biggest party. I.e, your party must have the most seats. NDP+Liberals< Conservatives, therefore the Bloc must sit on the Government side, even if they have no members as ministers in Government, even if they support no confidence motions, it doesn't fuckin matter.
EPT
