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On December 04 2008 02:42 karbon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 02:38 GiTM.Dante wrote:On December 04 2008 02:05 karbon wrote:On December 04 2008 01:46 HumbleZealot wrote:In general, it would appear a lot of people here are convinced, with little justification, that this coalition won't get anything done or will fall apart quickly. i agree with everything you mentioned. i believe the perspective of the tory voters are as such: there are three types of tory voters; those from the prairies (the die-hard supporters), those who want change as mentioned above, and those who choose from their asses and vote randomly. from the perspective of the prairies population, it's quite understandable as to why they would vote conservatives. the conservatives support them. they fear that if a liberal, or otherwise, party were to come into power, the funding would be focused towards Ontario, which is the heart of Canadian economy. they fear they would be neglected. very understandable. those who vote for change, unfortunately, are not aware of the tory policies, and way of handling things. they are not aware of all the gaffs that have been made by a tory government in history, which trumps all other gaffs by the liberals. an example: brian mulroney took money from Canada to fund his shit that is IRRELEVANT to the interest of Canada. (wiki it, too long to write). harper also ignored the interest of Canada. instead of fixing the economy, he worries about losing power, and tries to rid the Hill of these parties. the liberals have had scandals, yes, but they were of a personal nature, and by that i mean that even though the scandals occurred, it did NOT affect the efficiency and productivity of the Canadian economy growth. the economy was still in good shape. and then we come to those who vote conservatives just because they were sick of voting. I will be blunt. This is the group comprised of ignorant, stupid, selfish, self-centered and most of all, LAZY motherfuckers. They are ignorant because they are not aware that by granting the conservatives a vote, which would lead to a majority, harper has the white card to do WHAT EVER HE WANTS. which would DESTROY Canada. They are stupid because of the same reason. They are selfish and self-centered because they are LAZY. they don't want to re-vote because of their LAZINESS. Too much energy. Too tired to re-vote. Afraid of losing money, they are losing money anyways as long as the Tories are in power. Absolutely useless and lazy. Ontario is in for hard times with this economic cooldown and many factories seem to be closing. I also think you're confusing the Conservative party with the Progressive Conservatives and Canadian Alliance parties. Mulroney was a member of the PC. This conservative party was founded in 2003, which incorporated some of the PC/CA. You can't attribute one parties disaster to a new party. Only time will tell us. you're right. i shouldn't attribute past disasters to new party. but i'm under the impression that even with the new party, old tendencies do come back. the backbone of the philosophy still remains, despite its modification.
I agree to an extent, but I'm still willing to give them a chance. I would actually like to see Ignatieff run for the liberals and release his platform. I've read one of his books, very smart man, knows whats going on.
Ideologies 
Progressive Conservative: Conservatism, Liberal conservatism, Neoliberalism.
Canadian Alliance: Conservatism, Neoconservatism, Social conservatism
Conservative Party: Conservatism, Liberal Conservatism, Provincial devolution
Provincial devolution: Canadian federalism[1] is one of the three pillars of the constitutional order, along with responsible government and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It means that Canada has two distinct jurisdictions of political authority: on the one hand, the central Canadian Parliament and, on the other hand, legislative assemblies in ten provinces and three northern territories. The Federal Parliament and the Legislatures of the Provinces are sovereign with respect to certain areas of legislative authority A few subjects are shared (agriculture and immigration).The three territories are creations of the Federal Parliament and exercise delegated power and not sovereign power. The United Kingdom did not follow this model when Confederation was realized, making Canada different from its mother country in this respect.
I thought that was pretty interesting to put an emphasis on.
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From where I see it, on the main talking points:
The BQ- The BQ is an integral part of the Canadian political landscape, and apart from a general revulsion at the platform of separatism, I don't see any good reason NOT to engage them in a coalition, as parties on both sides have for decades. I am more than puzzled why it has become an issue only now.
Economy- Ironically, the economic pressures on the Conservatives in Canada are parallel to those on the present government of Germany- to resort to the image of "taking action," by which they mean deficit spending, and inflationary monetary policies to conform to the global standards set by Britain and America. I am of the opinion that the path taken by the German and Canadian governments is the more stable option, calculated in the long-term, but it cannot be claimed that a cut to public funding of political parties- as part of a broader programme to reduce excess spending- is an implausible move, or either constitutionally or morally invalid. There are arguments at least as valid against the entire system of public funding.
Democratic Mandate- It would be perfectly legitimate for an opposition coalition to topple the Prime Minister's government, since the government is selected by parliament, and not through direct suffrage under the constitution.
In general, I think that this wrathful partisanship spilling over into general society is the consequence of the hysteria of political mobilization, and not reflective of the importance of the issues truly at stake. The downside of this political enviornment, apart from the antipathies therein generated, is that inflation of opinion rarely elevates the quality of debate. Compared to the American, the Canadian voter may be seen as pragmatic, elastic, unideological, and, yes, indifferent. However, it does not follow that a greater ideological mobilization (or "education," as some still have the gall to utter) will dramatically improve the quality of political life in Canada, as we are presently seeing.
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On November 29 2008 17:05 Bill307 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2008 08:16 BatTheMan wrote:
Cut public funding to parties imo = good. Fuck them politicians make your own cash. I'm sick seeing my hard earned cash going away. Conservatives cut gst more also. You kids will understand when you start working. Public funding for politicians is good is because politicians who rely primarily on private funding become PUPPETS to the companies that fund them. If you'd rather have politicians who are working for the companies rather than the public, then feel free to move to the US: you won't be missed.
Corporate donations aren't allowed in Canada like they are in the US. Individuals can make contributions but its capped at a reasonable level to avoid this sort of problem.
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Jacques Parizeau (a founder of the bloc and the premiere during the separtist vote of 95) apparently predicted this sort of thing would happen back in 1991 and is probably laughing now that there is another spark for separatism again.
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wow, harper lied and said the coalition signing ceremony was not conducted in front of a canadian flag, he's trying to split the country apart with the inflammatory quebec bashing, despite the fact that in 2000 his current minister of international trade stockwell day made plans to form a coalition government with the bloc quebecois, and in 2004 stephen harper himself was ready to form a government with the support of the bloc quebecois.
why don't canadians realize this asshole is our very own george bush? are we trying to prove we are as dumb as texas too? my god
Edit: oh and i forgot to mention he offered dying chuck cadman a $1million dollar life insurance policy if he could buy his vote, and also likes to wiretap opposition parties' caucus meetings. seriously i wish canadians would stop bragging about how we're smarter than americans because apparently most of the country has it's head in the sand.
>>: seriously this whole thing reminds me of when sarah palin was campaigning about 'real america' and 'true americans', except at least in the US sarah palin got fucking trashed in the election, whereas apparently here that kind of behaviour will do you just fine
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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Canada9720 Posts
goddamn, why does cbc using windows media player. fuckers
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http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/news/features/opposition-reacts-081203.wmv
Can somebody translate Dion? I don't speak frenglish.
We will govern through corporation? Orly? I thought it was cooperation you downie Liberal.
God dion rages me. I dont give a damn about the separatists joining a coalition or even fucking layton being PM but Dion I CANNOT SMELL.
And I'm a Quebecquer. Goes to show.
It'll be a sad day for Canada when the leader of the Bloc has a better command of english than the prime minister of the country.
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hey a-game,
You do realize that the Conservative party we have in power now was founded in 2003 right? and that you're referring to Stockwell Days Canadian Alliance party. (Just saying, incase you were unaware).
"in 2000 his current minister of international trade stockwell day made plans to form a coalition government with the bloc quebecois, and in 2004 stephen harper himself was ready to form a government with the support of the bloc quebecois."
Good things he's the minister of international trade then, huh?
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On December 04 2008 14:50 GiTM.Dante wrote:
You do realize that the Conservative party we have in power now was founded in 2003 right? and that you're referring to Stockwell Days Canadian Alliance party.
Yeah I know that, I don't see how it's relevant to my point though?
Good things he's the minister of international trade then, huh?
? No idea what point you're trying to make here.
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why is no one talking about how rae or Ignatieff will be leading this coalition when the liberals decide which of them is replacing dion.
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I beleive that all the points I have thought of over the last few days have been made. Honestly you could win seats with the slogan "Were not Conservatives, not Liberals or Socialists, also our leader isn't a tree hugger"
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On December 04 2008 14:50 GiTM.Dante wrote:
hey a-game,
You do realize that the Conservative party we have in power now was founded in 2003 right? and that you're referring to Stockwell Days Canadian Alliance party. (Just saying, incase you were unaware).
"in 2000 his current minister of international trade stockwell day made plans to form a coalition government with the bloc quebecois, and in 2004 stephen harper himself was ready to form a government with the support of the bloc quebecois."
Good things he's the minister of international trade then, huh?
thats cool, because in 2000 harper and flaherty proposed basically the same thing in a paper
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On December 04 2008 14:22 frankbg wrote:http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/8752/news/features/opposition-reacts-081203.wmvCan somebody translate Dion? I don't speak frenglish. We will govern through corporation? Orly? I thought it was cooperation you downie Liberal. God dion rages me. I dont give a damn about the separatists joining a coalition or even fucking layton being PM but Dion I CANNOT SMELL. And I'm a Quebecquer. Goes to show. It'll be a sad day for Canada when the leader of the Bloc has a better command of english than the prime minister of the country.
Just because he can't speak english properly, how is that remotely relevant to his party's policies about leading the government? Oh he can't speak properly, so i hate him and don't want him to be PM. genial mon ami. pas mal genial.
... wat?
what the fuck are you talking about?
see, it's comments like these that i can't stand.
if you hate Dion, at least come up with a valid reason.
i will give you an example:
I hate Stephen Harper, because his backward economy fix has kicked everyone in the balls.
by taking 30 million dollars from the other parties to try and fix the economy withOUT a stimulus package, he is bankrupting them, leading them to disappear, hence leaving him in power for a very long time. in the mean time, he has 800M in surplus up his ass he isn't touching.
OR
I hate Stephen Harper because he is a hypocrite. He claims he would not have done a coalition like the Liberals are doing with NDP. Yet, he attempted to with the Bloc and the NDP back in 2004 with the Martin government still in power.
now it's your turn.
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On December 04 2008 16:53 karbon wrote:... wat? what the fuck are you talking about? see, it's comments like these that i can't stand. if you hate Dion, at least come up with a valid reason. i will give you an example: I hate Stephen Harper, because his backward economy fix has kicked everyone in the balls. by taking 30 million dollars from the other parties to try and fix the economy withOUT a stimulus package, he is bankrupting them, leading them to disappear, hence leaving him in power for a very long time. in the mean time, he has 800M in surplus up his ass he isn't touching. now it's your turn. do it right.
You forgot his broken promises from the last election, and to just mention one of them, how about
we wont have another election for another 4 years
we lasted what, year and a half?
Look at the current news, he is bashing the coalition for working with the bloc, which is something he was prepared to do in 2004 which just goes to show hes a hypocrite.
The coalition has already given a plan on how to attempt to fix the economy, which is alot better than a PM who has been in office 7 weeks and has failed to do this, and is asking the country waits on it? He should of had it before being elected.
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On December 04 2008 16:59 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 16:53 karbon wrote:... wat? what the fuck are you talking about? see, it's comments like these that i can't stand. if you hate Dion, at least come up with a valid reason. i will give you an example: I hate Stephen Harper, because his backward economy fix has kicked everyone in the balls. by taking 30 million dollars from the other parties to try and fix the economy withOUT a stimulus package, he is bankrupting them, leading them to disappear, hence leaving him in power for a very long time. in the mean time, he has 800M in surplus up his ass he isn't touching. now it's your turn. do it right. You forgot his broken promises from the last election, and to just mention one of them, how about we wont have another election for another 4 years we lasted what, year and a half? Look at the current news, he is bashing the coalition for working with the bloc, which is something he was prepared to do in 2004 which just goes to show hes a hypocrite. The coalition has already given a plan on how to attempt to fix the economy, which is alot better than a PM who has been in office 7 weeks and has failed to do this, and is asking the country waits on it? He should of had it before being elected.
lol i'm sorry 
i edited my post, and included all the stuff you said
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On December 04 2008 17:03 karbon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 16:59 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On December 04 2008 16:53 karbon wrote:... wat? what the fuck are you talking about? see, it's comments like these that i can't stand. if you hate Dion, at least come up with a valid reason. i will give you an example: I hate Stephen Harper, because his backward economy fix has kicked everyone in the balls. by taking 30 million dollars from the other parties to try and fix the economy withOUT a stimulus package, he is bankrupting them, leading them to disappear, hence leaving him in power for a very long time. in the mean time, he has 800M in surplus up his ass he isn't touching. now it's your turn. do it right. You forgot his broken promises from the last election, and to just mention one of them, how about we wont have another election for another 4 years we lasted what, year and a half? Look at the current news, he is bashing the coalition for working with the bloc, which is something he was prepared to do in 2004 which just goes to show hes a hypocrite. The coalition has already given a plan on how to attempt to fix the economy, which is alot better than a PM who has been in office 7 weeks and has failed to do this, and is asking the country waits on it? He should of had it before being elected. lol i'm sorry i edited my post, and included all the stuff you said
yay me
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On December 04 2008 15:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
why is no one talking about how rae or Ignatieff will be leading this coalition when the liberals decide which of them is replacing dion.
I can`t speak for Rae since he still loves the NDP and leftist policies, but real liberals like Ignatieff realize that this type of coalition can only hurt the liberal party and hurt his chances of ever being PM. Ignatieff is likely to quash this thing before it ever becomes a reality if he knows what is good for him.
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EPT
