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On November 29 2008 08:20 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2008 08:13 a-game wrote:On November 29 2008 08:04 blue_arrow wrote:
Ok, calling for a vote now is about the stupidest things the opposition parties can do they're not calling for a vote. they're considering bringing the government down, and then asking the governor-general to invite the opposition parties to form a coalition government. there would be no election necessary, the opposition parties already have enough seats in parliament to form a majority government. Which, frankly, is bullshit. I can't imagine too many Canadians being happy that the government they JUST elected got replaced with the people they DIDNT elect.
i disagree, 63% of voters voted for the coalition parties, so in actuality a coalition government would represent a stronger mandate of the canadian people than the current conservative government.
only 37% of voters supported harper.
it'll be interesting to see the polls in the coming days to see how the canadian people feel about this situation. there's going to be a fierce PR battle waged on the airwaves to shape that opinion, that's for sure.
Edit: this kind of thing happens in europe all the time, it's completely democratic, us canadians just aren't used to having parties that actually cooperate. the opposition parties have had a mandate to govern from the very beginning, they just never had the cooperation to turn that potential into a reality.
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On November 29 2008 08:20 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2008 08:13 a-game wrote:On November 29 2008 08:04 blue_arrow wrote:
Ok, calling for a vote now is about the stupidest things the opposition parties can do they're not calling for a vote. they're considering bringing the government down, and then asking the governor-general to invite the opposition parties to form a coalition government. there would be no election necessary, the opposition parties already have enough seats in parliament to form a majority government. Which, frankly, is bullshit. I can't imagine too many Canadians being happy that the government they JUST elected got replaced with the people they DIDNT elect.
I can. The people aren't happy. Not like we haven't been down a similar route before.
The Tories totally fucked up.
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On November 29 2008 08:18 Mastermind wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2008 08:09 blue_arrow wrote:On November 29 2008 07:56 Mastermind wrote:On November 29 2008 07:35 Showtime! wrote:
What did I say? Stephen Harper is a tool. I didn't think he would sink down to this low, but he finally did.
I'm glad he's getting his swan song earlier than expected.
Now, if only the Liberals had a true leader *cough*. My inside sources tell me it's going to be Bob Rae. Bob Rae? No fucking way. That would be a fucking disaster. I would no longer support the Liberals if they chose that fucking joke of a man to lead the party. Bob Rae is a an ex-premiere of Ontario. He was part of the ndp and his government was a complete disaster. I sure hope your sources have no idea what they are talking about. I have my money on Michael Ignatieff. I met the guy at a political convention in BC in 2007, and although I did feel he was as much of a phony as any other politician, he was a great speaker, which is something the Liberals are in desperate need of after being lead by Dion. lol yeah, i always thought ignatieff would have been the best party leader for the libs... didn't he teach at harvard or something? back when they voted for a new leader after martin, i was like WTF when they voted Dion. Yes, he taught at Harvard, and the only reason he stopped teaching at Harvard was because he was brought up to Canada to be the next leader of the Liberals, but that didn't work out for him. I actually believe he was the head of a department at Harvard, not just a professor. Clearly he is a smart man, but with him living in the US for so long I question if he is in touch with Canadians and our values. When I met him he seemed to be a bit of an elitist and tried to avoid talking with everyone who was at the convention I was attending. He gave a couple great speeches though. @Showtime, I also have some connections in Ottawa who I am trying to get a hold of now. I have 2 friends who work for the liberal party, one even has a office in parliament. Hopefully I will be able to get some inside info on what the hell is going on. If I can, I will post in this thread.
I know too many people in the inside as well and I'm pretty sure they will tell you the same thing.
Hell after, Dion made his announcement there were a few leaks to the news agencies, i.e. Globa l and CTV went over to question Bob Rae about Dion's announcement and they were trying to get more info about his candidacy.
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Ah, so close to a conservative communist party takeover... why'd you have to make it so obvious Harper?!
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Well, I asked my friend in the liberal party what he knew and this was his response
NDP and Liberals have generally agreed upon the formation of a coalition. Dion will be PM, bloc will support the coalition if we aid the forestry sector in Quebec.
Harper freaked out and moved the vote back a week, so we are expecting an intense public relations campaign to try and discredit the coalition. There is a chance the vote may be on Monday, but most likely it will go down on Dec 8.
Apparently Harper is experiencing a revolt from his own caucus right now, because his strategic mistake may have cost them the government.
edit: He also says that the Liberals have see a 400 percent increase in donations in the last 48 hours.
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Yeah, the people aren't happy with the opposition governments.
But....we'll see when somebody starts putting up polls.
Also I say Canadians are slowly leaning towards the political right.
Although, the right end of the spectrum in canada is still way left of the US, even with obama right now.
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wow thats really bad.....if something like that happened in the usa and mccain won, the government would be such a richer place.......because obama raised so much money
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Hey, Canada's southern neighbor here, sucks that you guys have to go through this right after an election. Here there would be riots everywhere if a national election was under threat of being overturned, and I imagine that Canada is experiencing a similar, albeit less intense situation (due to there being more than two reasonably powerful parties for you guys).
Here's to hoping things don't get too out of hand.
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Canada590 Posts
Dion was a disaster, Steve Murphy owned him in what people said was uncalled for. Just to clear where I stand on the matter, if the leader of our nation can't effectively complete an interview given by Steve Murphy then he shouldn't be leading a country. In this last election I had voted for Harper, and I think that given the chance with a majority he would have made some decent changes - however, there are certain things, like every party, that I have mixed feelings about.
I really dislike the Canadian system at the moment, I majored in Political Science in University and the more I learned, the less I wanted to have anything to do with it. I think Canadians need a leader who's in your face and honest, similar to Trudeau. I know he's used as the poster boy when referring to past prime ministers, but it's the truth. I also found it very funny that a lot of people I talked to were voting based on the party and not on the candidate. I know a lot of the older generations are very set in their ways and vote the same way there family has voted for years.
Now, the last federal election that passed was very funny, in my opinion. I thought that Jack Layton running for Prime Minister was a joke. When the NDP was founded, it was never intended to be a governing body, only an opposition that was meant to keep the governing party in check and I would never want the NDP to lead the country.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out, I'll post more when I have a few more minutes and do some reading.
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Honestly man. He wouldn't. You can never make the changes you want without majority, but there is a reason why he never got that in the first place. He is pissed off way too many people. The WRONG people.
His way of thinking is so backwards it makes me want to puke.
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On November 29 2008 08:58 Cobalt wrote:
Hey, Canada's southern neighbor here, sucks that you guys have to go through this right after an election. Here there would be riots everywhere if a national election was under threat of being overturned, and I imagine that Canada is experiencing a similar, albeit less intense situation (due to there being more than two reasonably powerful parties for you guys).
Here's to hoping things don't get too out of hand.
Are you sure about that? I dont remember any riots when the supreme court decided to ignore the florida recount in 2000.
There are in fact only 2 powerful parties in Canada. The other 2 parties would NEVER form a government. The Bloc is a separatist party that only exists within Quebec, and the ndp is a socialist party that is mainly supported by the unions, but have never come close to being the main opposition party, let alone the actual party in power.
As was stated before, the results of the election actually would support a coalition of the 3 opposition parties. The conservatives have a minority government because the other parties decided not to form a coalition. No results would be over turned. The coalition has the votes to form a government if they choose to do so. Democracy is not being threatened. This sort of thing happens in Europe all the time.
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On November 29 2008 08:58 Cobalt wrote:
Hey, Canada's southern neighbor here, sucks that you guys have to go through this right after an election. Here there would be riots everywhere if a national election was under threat of being overturned, and I imagine that Canada is experiencing a similar, albeit less intense situation (due to there being more than two reasonably powerful parties for you guys).
Here's to hoping things don't get too out of hand.
They're two very different systems, so you shouldn't compare them as such.
In a two-party system, the party with the most votes always has more than 50%. Having more than two major political parties automatically gives you the possibility of a minority government, because having the most votes doesn't nessessarily mean you have most of the votes. The system is designed such that these minority governments are kept in check, because them having less than the majority of votes means that all of the opposition parties put together have the majority. Because of this, minority governments tend to be short lived, transitionary governments that exist only until either of the political parties gathers enough credibility from the electorate to form a majority government (which is what happends in a normal situation). What we're seeing here isn't anything particularly unusual - it's just the system correcting itself, which is exactly what it's supposed to do.
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Its ridiculous how the recession has not even hit Canada yet, at least not in any major way, and the opposition parties are fucking screaming bloody murder because we haven't wasted billions in tax dollars to prop up already declining economies. It's not as if throwing money at it has solved the problem anywhere else, and its not as if the Conservatives ruled out the possibility of a bailout, if the economy was getting in rough shape.
Though to be honest, a coalition government is a pretty ridiculous thought. The Liberals are in terrible shape, and due to their moderate [though left leaning] nature, are actually closer ideologically to the Conservatives, than they are to the far left-ndp. Not to mention, an alliance with secessionists?
Any kind of coalition would invariably blow up in their faces, and would sway independents and others to vote for the Conservatives en masse. We should not be having petty political squabbles in this time, I understand that if the opposition disagrees with the Conservatives that they should state it, but toppling a Government is idiotic at this point.
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On November 29 2008 09:55 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Its ridiculous how the recession has not even hit Canada yet, at least not in any major way, and the opposition parties are fucking screaming bloody murder because we haven't wasted billions in tax dollars to prop up already declining economies. It's not as if throwing money at it has solved the problem anywhere else, and its not as if the Conservatives ruled out the possibility of a bailout, if the economy was getting in rough shape.
Though to be honest, a coalition government is a pretty ridiculous thought. The Liberals are in terrible shape, and due to their moderate [though left leaning] nature, are actually closer ideologically to the Conservatives, than they are to the far left-ndp. Not to mention, an alliance with secessionists?
Any kind of coalition would invariably blow up in their faces, and would sway independents and others to vote for the Conservatives en masse. We should not be having petty political squabbles in this time, I understand that if the opposition disagrees with the Conservatives that they should state it, but toppling a Government is idiotic at this point.
The opposition parties aren't "screaming bloody murder" because of the Conservatives management of the economy (which has been sub-par), they're pissed because Harper is deliberately attempting to provoke them by introducing a new "fiscal" policy that will bleed them dry of their finances. He is intentionally trying to stir shit up in parliament with this legislation, which is the same shit he's done ever since his party formed the government in 2006 and now its exploding in his face.
As for the coalition government, the opposition parties aren't quite as stupid and as stubborn as you may think. They are obvouisly well aware that they cannot allow another election and thats why they've already begun to plan a coalition government that will last more then just two weeks. Not that I think its shelf life will be particularly long (if it happens), but I assure you there won't be an election THAT soon.
And as for your comments about petty political squabbles and bringing down the government, I couldn't agree more, but the opposition parties aren't the ones who initially forced this situation, it was Harper and his irresponsible actions. Did he not promise Canadians that he'd work with parliament to get Canada through these tough economic times? Isn't the economy supposed to be the main issue right now, not spiteful political legislation? I would very much like too see what explanation he has for this shitstorm he's created, although I doubt he'll take responsibility. Either way, it will be interesting to see what happens; Canadian politics usually don't have this much drama... 
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Lol I love the Canadian government who needs stand up comics when you have the Conservatives!
Ahhhh its fun.
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its ok, during all the chaos, america will buy canada, plunging ourselves into more debt. GGNORE
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Well that sounds awfully complicated. Good luck to all you Canadians!
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On November 29 2008 08:16 BatTheMan wrote:
Cut public funding to parties imo = good. Fuck them politicians make your own cash. I'm sick seeing my hard earned cash going away. Conservatives cut gst more also. You kids will understand when you start working.
Public funding for politicians is good is because politicians who rely primarily on private funding become PUPPETS to the companies that fund them.
If you'd rather have politicians who are working for the companies rather than the public, then feel free to move to the US: you won't be missed.
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Is that your perception of Obama, Bill?
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EPT
