| Forum Index > General Forum |
|
Savio
United States1850 Posts
On November 08 2008 09:13 onepost wrote: If the GOP gets more and more radical, as various sources hint, then it will only sink lower and lower in the coming decade. It could even disappear completely. *sigh* | ||
|
Savio
United States1850 Posts
I don't the technical knowledge to defend the Patriot system on technical grounds, but I do think this is interesting: "Patriot systems have been sold to the Republic of China (Taiwan), Egypt, Germany, Greece, Israel, Japan, Kuwait, the Netherlands, Saudi Arabia, and Spain. The Republic of Korea is also in the process of purchasing several second-hand Patriot systems after North Korea test-launched several ballistic missiles to the Sea of Japan and went ahead with underground nuclear testing in 2006.[2] In August of 2008, the United States and Poland signed an agreement to temporarily station a US Patriot battalion to help deter attacks from rogue states and to guard the US missile defense complex in Poland." Seems like other countries don't consider the Patriots useless. I bet these missiles and their launch systems aren't cheap. source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot | ||
|
Choros
Australia530 Posts
| ||
|
Choros
Australia530 Posts
On November 08 2008 08:08 Savio wrote: You know what I have always thought would be awesome. I would love to see Iran develop some new missile that could easily reach Israel, and then when they decide to test it and show it off to the world as a PR stunt, I'd love to see their first missile get shot down from a US cruiser as a little "test" of our own. That, I think would be a clear signal that we are willing and capable of defending our middle eastern allies. Iran is irrelevant in terms of the star wars system. You think the United States would sink ungodly sums of money into a system to defend against a country that not only has a limited missile capacity but no nuclear weapons whatsoever. Ofcourse not the missile shield is aimed to defend against the Russians and the Chinese, the fact they are installing it in Eastern Europe and in Asia further indicates this fact. And here is the main point these nations see this as a threat to their security and have responded in a predictable manner. Russia has already successfully tested a new ballistic missile specifically designed to evade the missile defense system. http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-08/28/content_9731093.htm http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Russia_Tests_Missile_Able_To_Penetrate_Defences_As_Putin_Warns_Of_European_Powder_Keg_999.html The problem with the missile shield is not whether it can defeat missile technology as it stands the problem is that it will and indeed already has triggered a new nuclear arms race whilst simultaneously contributing to significantly increasing tensions between nations which was a prime motivator of the invasion of Georgia for example, and if tensions continue to deteriorate this is probably only the beginning. | ||
|
Savio
United States1850 Posts
| ||
|
Zealotdriver
United States1557 Posts
| ||
|
Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On September 27 2010 02:21 Zealotdriver wrote: After our victories in 2008, I had a lot of high hopes for the Democratic Party and it seemed like gg for Republicans and top-down political movements in general. Then Karl Rove created the Tea Parties. FFFFFUUUU. The Tea Party was just a symptom of the Democratic Party and it's failure to spend political capital correctly. In fact, one can argue that the Tea Party's unforgiving stance towards any incumbents, Republican and Democrat, means that the Tea Party could potentially help Democrats in upcoming elections. | ||
|
Diuqil
United States307 Posts
On November 07 2008 05:53 Savio wrote: The Republican party is the natural party that Americans want to be associated with. Its basic principles are more in line with what this country was founded on: individualism, responsibilty, equal opportunity (rather than Equal Outcome), limited government, competition, economic freedom, and faith. They don't need to realign themselves or come up with something "new". They already speak to the heart of Americanism more than Democrats do. All they have to do is be true to their real principles. I think this is what you will see. A backlash against "compassionate conservatism", and a return to the ideals that made it the Grand Old Party. I agree. The only problem is that they need to follow their principles. They appose many things like legalizing Cannabis, gay marriage, abortion,etc. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On November 07 2008 03:45 Savio wrote: I think you're seeing right now with the DADT and the Cordoba Center that neither of these things were abandoned. There's been no realignment at all from the upper levels of the GOP. Their line today is the same as it was 4 years ago.1. Did the GOP abandon social issues and aggressive foreign policy? Was there a major realignment? 2. What did the GOP do and why are they polling so well now? Democrats leaned too far to the center. On the outside, it would seem like going further to the left would alienate more moderates, but I don't think that's necessarily the case. It's been the muddling around and indecisiveness that has truly soured moderates, such as the debacle with the health care bill. Instead of pushing for a strong progressive plan, they wasted time and ended up with a weak compromise when they didn't need to. That falls on Democratic leadership, including Obama.I also think the polling data is blown out of proportion. Internal polls are testing better for Ds than the media ones, and in some cases, such as in Michigan, it's more about disgust. Granholm carries a lot of disdain across the state, and neither gubernatorial candidate is very appealing. The real outcome will probably be high levels of voter apathy.[/quote] 3. What will be the future of the GOP? Is this just a transient bounce-back against a true beginning of a liberal/progressive era? No clue, it's too early to tell. If I had to guess, it'd be that Republicans are currently more compelling, but they're not making a very good argument either.Further, please also discuss the Tea Party and its effect on the GOP. If it stays quiet, it's fine. If it gets big, it'll be disastrous. The current version we're seeing during the primaries is pretty artificial and controlled by Republican leadership. If it branches out on its own, possibly now or in 2012, it'll undercut Republican candidates. If the GOP can parlay it into its own image while staying the same and still spending, then it's good for them. The actual movement is probably less alive today than it was 2 years ago.1. Is the Tea Party here to stay or will it disappear very quickly? 2. Will it be a dominate force in the GOP? I can't imagine the ideologues screaming about it will be anywhere to be found in 2 or 4 years. It might work once, but it'll lose effectiveness until voters forget about it again. This election will be about attitude more than policy. So…lets hear it! TL decides the fate of the Party of Lincoln….. Lincoln was a HUGE progressive. Plus if people really took that to heart, you'd lose Georgia and South Carolina.  EDIT: Also, I missed you. :> | ||
|
Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
On September 27 2010 02:21 Zealotdriver wrote: After our victories in 2008, I had a lot of high hopes for the Democratic Party and it seemed like gg for Republicans and top-down political movements in general. Then Karl Rove created the Tea Parties. FFFFFUUUU. Common misconception in regard to the Tea Party's connections to the Republican Party. Tea Party was very disorganized and decentralized in it's beginnings and had very strong Libertarian leanings at it's conception. Since then, the Democrats have reviled it as a dangerous Right-Wing racist organization, and the Republican's have tried to incorporate and assimilate it out of fear for what it means for their own internal status quo. In the end, both parties, despite what they say to the public, are content with the way things are functioning. They get to keep their jobs, and in the end, their agendas aren't that different from one another because of the populist nature of the two-party system and how those two parties have to adapt in order to stay alive. This is where the Tea Party movement becomes a threat, but in different ways, to each party. The threat the Tea Party presents to the Democrats is more direct and apparent; they will cause the Democrats to lose seats in the next election, period. However, the threat they represent to the Republican's is much more subtle in nature. Here, you have a dramatic shift in the entire structure of the party if the Tea Party is assimilated. If not, then you have a drain on votes as the potential pool for Republican voters is split amongst two lines. Essentially, it's do or die for the Republicans when it comes to incorporating the Tea Party Movement into their own Party. Saying that Karl Rove began the movement, when it represents such a threat to his own party is silly. The only reason you see so many Republican's endorsing the movement is because it's a matter of survival for them as the Movement has taxed more the their voters than the Democrats. | ||
|
EndlessRain
140 Posts
| ||
|
teekesselchen
Germany886 Posts
Come on, the virtues of the USA are engraved into the statue of liberty itself and yet the so "patriotic" tea party quite obviously despises them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus If they should ever have serious control over decisions in US politics, the whole nation will regress into medieval intellectual poverty. From "defenders of human rights" back to "hunting the devil", yeah. | ||
|
Biff The Understudy
France7890 Posts
Is really funny all the people with anti-socialist signature in this thread. Would you tell me that Norway or Finland, which are the most socialist countries in Europ are "sharing of misery" and have "abolished rationnal economy"? I have lived in france and England, I can tell you that the most rationnal and the less miserale country of the two is not the least socialist. What you guys call "rationnal economy" has led to the biggest disaster in economic history since 60 years. I guess I shouold create a blog about rationalism, we could discuss that further. It may be time to open the eyes: wild capitalism and ultraliberal economic policies are basically the worst option possible, both for your country and for the world. Plus, the right of republicans, with their Jesus stuff and their tea party are just completely nuts. | ||
|
Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
On September 27 2010 03:04 teekesselchen wrote: If only America would have better education, at least the Tea Party wing would simply vanish. It takes serious mental damage to support such archaic ideas which specifically oppose everything good the USA ever represented. Come on, the virtues of the USA are engraved into the statue of liberty itself and yet the so "patriotic" tea party quite obviously despises them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus Please don't throw that out there like the Tea Party opposes all that, whatever "that" is considering it's a poem filled with metaphors that different people will interpret in different ways. You can oppose the idea's all you want, but please, look into the issue before you pass such judgment on the Tea Party Movement, it's beginnings had a fairly diverse amalgamation of ideologies that have become covered up because of the reasons I stated above. The situation is far too complex to be able to sum up with "uneducated American's joined the Tea Party Movement", that is both unfair, and highly inaccurate. I can use the same argument in regard to the Democrats, pointing out that more poverty stricken, and uneducated communities vote Democrat, than Republican, and so, Democrats are all uneducated. That's both false, and disparaging to the listener. I'll admit, there are parts of the movement I like, and parts I'm not a fan of, but I feel that as a general thing, it's good for the nation since it's upsetting the status quo, which always needs a good shake every so often. @ Biff American republican party: the most hated political party on the planet, after China Communist party maybe. Is really funny all the people with anti-socialist signature in this thread. Would you tell me that Norway or Finland, which are the most socialist countries in Europ are "sharing of misery" and have "abolished rationnal economy"? I have lived in france and England, I can tell you that the most rationnal and the less miserale country of the two is not the least socialist. What you guys call "rationnal economy" has led to the biggest disaster in economic history since 60 years. I guess I shouold create a blog about rationalism, we could discuss that further. It may be time to open the eyes: wild capitalism and ultraliberal economic policies are basically the worst option possible, both for your country and for the world. Plus, the right of republicans, with their Jesus stuff and their tea party are just completely nuts Economics and Politics aren't about "what works" or even "what helps the most people". It all depends on what your goals are. I want efficiency, and so, I favor a generally laissez-faire economy. And no, what we've had going on that lead to the current economic disaster, has certainly NOT been a rational economy. Corporatism is not rational. Alot of people mistake Capitalism for Corporatism, and that creates the often justly derided image of Capitalism, given that is has false constituent beliefs attached to it. Given the popular conception of Capitalism, I hate it xD | ||
|
Ramiel
United States1220 Posts
The economic disaster has nothing to do with capitalism, it had everything to do with fools, and the idea of 'the great society.' Secondly having a free market and liberal market is what will drive the world economy, socialism and structured markets are like a gaping wound, slowly bleeding markets dry. Lastly, you description of republicans is completely off, and in the far right field (yes pun intended) Please stop spouting nonsensical definitions about political parties based on satire, or other news media outlets. | ||
|
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On September 27 2010 03:04 teekesselchen wrote: If only America would have better education, at least the Tea Party wing would simply vanish. It takes serious mental damage to support such archaic ideas which specifically oppose everything good the USA ever represented. Come on, the virtues of the USA are engraved into the statue of liberty itself and yet the so "patriotic" tea party quite obviously despises them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus If they should ever have serious control over decisions in US politics, the whole nation will regress into medieval intellectual poverty. From "defenders of human rights" back to "hunting the devil", yeah. Statue of Liberty is French. | ||
|
Biff The Understudy
France7890 Posts
On September 27 2010 03:32 Ramiel wrote: biff, if you don't live in the us your perceptions of our politics are very misguided. Sorry, but i feel that your opinion is extremely obtuse, it is clear to me that you don't really have an educated view point. You sound more like a disgruntled European passing judgment. The economic disaster has nothing to do with capitalism, it had everything to do with fools, and the idea of 'the great society.' Secondly having a free market and liberal market is what will drive the world economy, socialism and structured markets are like a gaping wound, slowly bleeding markets dry. Lastly, you description of republicans is completely off, and in the far right field (yes pun intended) Please stop spouting nonsensical definitions about political parties based on satire, or other news media outlets. At least I had a good laugh. Your first paragrapher is gold. I'll put it in every post where I disagree with someone. The economic disaster has to do with the destruction of a number of rules in the financial area in your country and in the world since the beginning of ultraliberal era (Tatcher-Reagan). The crisis is a direct consequence of the ultraliberal policies you guys are fighting for. Your free market thing is very nice, but there are a number of very socialist countries such as Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, France, Germany in a certain extent... which do much better both on economical and social level than for example, UK. So your anti-socialist doxa is maybe old-fashionned. Third I haven't given any definition of the rpublican, except by saying they were hated around the world, which is a goddamn fact, and that the far right republicans à-la Tea Party are nuts. I am uneducated? What do you want to talk about? Ontological problem in XVIIth century rationnalist philosophy? The answer of German composers to atonality in the beginning of the XXth century? Freud's point of view on Dostoievsky? Or maybe about the crime of the CIA during operation Condor in South America in the 60's, I'm sure you are very aware of that. People who start their answers by "you are obviously uneducated" make me laugh out loud. | ||
|
Ramiel
United States1220 Posts
ohh snap, have to love it when people outside of the us try and argue about American politics. and yes the tea party movement is all about god, jesus, and finding the devil- along with witch hunts. Its appalling to me how grossly misinformed so many people in this thread seem to be. where has everyone been getting their information? cnn,msnbc,fox? All i hear form so many people, is a one liner about how the tea party will ruin everything, and how the vast majority of Americans are un-educated / stupid. It says a lot about someone when their opinion is so grossly misinformed. And it speaks volumes when they are willing to spout it everywhere under a tone of distaste, and perceived superiority. | ||
|
Tazza
Korea (South)1678 Posts
| ||
|
Biff The Understudy
France7890 Posts
On September 27 2010 03:25 Kimaker wrote: Economics and Politics aren't about "what works" or even "what helps the most people". It all depends on what your goals are. I want efficiency, and so, I favor a generally laissez-faire economy. And no, what we've had going on that lead to the current economic disaster, has certainly NOT been a rational economy. Corporatism is not rational. Alot of people mistake Capitalism for Corporatism, and that creates the often justly derided image of Capitalism, given that is has false constituent beliefs attached to it. Given the popular conception of Capitalism, I hate it xD Well, it's precisely your problem: you say you want efficiency, but you don't say what efficiency and how. Your efficiency is an efficiency which favor a very small class of the population and big companies, period. On paper, ultraliberalism looks nice and the economy is supposed to "work well", but at the end, it has a dramatic social cost, and doesn't even benefit people. You are the one who should think what the goals are. Efficiency doesn't mean anything. My goals is to live in a country with justice, with wealth properly distributed, with no misery, and with the possibility for everybody to achieve what he wants regardless how much his parents earn. Ultraliberalism doesn't achieve any of theses. | ||
| ||
|
|
WardiTV Summer Champion…
Stormgate Nexus
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
The PondCast
WardiTV Summer Champion…
Replay Cast
LiuLi Cup
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
RSL Revival
RSL Revival
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT
