EPTFuture of the Republican Party... - Page 5
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Flaccid
8895 Posts
Not many people like to think of themselves as 'priviledged' so it's a step. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On November 08 2008 05:22 oneofthem wrote: why the emphasis on bush anyway. as if the party is a family corner store. If Iraq turns out semi-decently in 5 years and GWB's name recovers a bit, it wouldn't be surprising if Jeb Bush makes a run for office. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
republicans do not need to appeal to religious conservatives wholeheartedly to gather their votes, especially given the crusading mentality there that is very much silly in terms of political strategy. the question is, who is in charge of the party. | ||
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Flaccid
8895 Posts
On November 08 2008 05:46 oneofthem wrote: the question is, who is in charge of the party. Lee Atwater is pulling the string. FROM THE GRAVE | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On November 08 2008 05:46 oneofthem wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/07/conservatives.election/index.html?iref=mpstoryview republicans do not need to appeal to religious conservatives wholeheartedly to gather their votes, especially given the crusading mentality there that is very much silly in terms of political strategy. the question is, who is in charge of the party. Tony Perkins sure knows a lot about family values. http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050509/blumenthal Four years ago, Perkins addressed the Louisiana chapter of the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC), America's premier white supremacist organization, the successor to the White Citizens Councils, which battled integration in the South. In 1996 Perkins paid former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke $82,500 for his mailing list. At the time, Perkins was the campaign manager for a right-wing Republican candidate for the US Senate in Louisiana. The Federal Election Commission fined the campaign Perkins ran $3,000 for attempting to hide the money paid to Duke. As the emcee of Justice Sunday, Tony Perkins positioned himself beside a black preacher and a Catholic "civil rights" activist as he rattled off the phone numbers of senators wavering on President Bush's judicial nominees. The evening's speakers studiously couched their appeals on behalf of Bush's stalled judges in the vocabulary of victimhood, accusing Democratic senators of "filibustering people of faith." James Dobson, who founded the Family Research Council as the Washington lobbying arm of his Focus on the Family, invoked the Christian right's persecution complex. On an evening when Jews were celebrating the second night of Passover, Dobson claimed, "The biggest Holocaust in world history came out of the Supreme Court" with the Roe v. Wade decision. On his syndicated radio show nearly two weeks earlier, on April 11, Dobson compared the "black robed men" on the Supreme Court to "the men in white robes, the Ku Klux Klan." By his logic, the burden of oppression had passed from religious and racial minorities to unborn children and pure-hearted heterosexuals engaged in "traditional marriage." So what do you think Savio? You willing to let Perkins and Dobson control the fate of your party? | ||
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larrysbird
375 Posts
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
On November 08 2008 05:21 Arbiter[frolix] wrote: Even if we do only count the two Bush eras then that is still 12 years in the White House and a 20 year total timeframe. That is not to be so easily dismissed. Actually, outside of the 2 Bush's I don't think that Republicans have a bad record at all. Jibba noted, and he is right, that congressional Republicans were responsible for balancing the budget during the Clinton years. Clinton cannot claim credit for that. That is 8 years of decent governance by Republicans. Then you have Reagan who instituted massive cuts in domestic spending. His even more massive tax cuts coupled with increased military spending overcame the cut in domestic spending and led to increases in the national debt, but at least we saw a Republican who was willing to cut domestic spending. So he has at least a mixed record on spending. Some people argue that our military expenditures are what sped to the collapse of the USSR. That is multifactorial however and can be argued. But at least he thought it was necessary. As for Star Wars, it never benefitted Reagan, or Bush Sr. but it is becoming more and more common now-a-days that we are having successful tests at shooting down ballistic and medium range missiles. Who knows if that will ever come in handy in negotiations, diplomacy, and/or actual use. We will see. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
On November 08 2008 06:11 Jibba wrote: Tony Perkins sure knows a lot about family values. http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050509/blumenthal So what do you think Savio? You willing to let Perkins and Dobson control the fate of your party? Interesting thing about me is that even though I am socially conservative, I don't really fit in with them (evangelicals, etc.). I happen to belong to a Christian religion that the "Christians" reject and ridicule. My church is more a target of evangelical attacks than they are from any other group/organization. So I have very mixed feelings about the "Religious Right". I agree with them on social issues, but sometimes I am very angry at them for their close-mindedness and their behavior. As for the 2 people you referred to, Perkins definitely sounds like a nut. Dobson, I think was making the point that every year more babies are aborted than the total number of Jews that were killed during the Holocaust. But because he used such shocking language, it turns people off. EDIT: Actually, I don't know a whole lot about Perkins, so I can't really say much about him. But if you are going to quote that article from "TheNation", to be fair you also have to read this: + Show Spoiler + A Response to False Claims made by The Nation June 15, 2005 In an article in The Nation ("Justice Sunday Preachers" April 26, 2005), Max Blumenthal falsely asserts, "In 1996 Perkins paid former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke $82,500 for his mailing list. At the time, Perkins was the campaign manager for a right-wing Republican candidate for the US Senate in Louisiana." Tony Perkins was the manager of the 1996 U.S. Senate campaign of Republican Woody Jenkins in Louisiana where Impact Media was contracted to make pre-recorded telephone calls for the campaign. In 1999, an unrelated federal investigation uncovered that David Duke had a financial interest in the company, which he did not report to the IRS, resulting in his conviction on federal tax evasion charges. This connection was not known to Mr. Perkins until 1999. Mr. Perkins profoundly opposes the racial views of Mr. Duke and was profoundly grieved to learn that Duke was a party to the company that had done work for the 1996 campaign. These facts have been widely reported in Louisiana and the reports appearing now in various partisan media are not accurate. In 2003, Mr. Jenkins published a letter in the major daily in Baton Rouge responding to a critical article that resurrected the same distortion. "[I]t is unfortunate," Jenkins wrote, "for you to smear a good man like [then-] Rep. Tony Perkins. There is absolutely nothing about the matter that should taint Rep. Perkins. His intentions were entirely honorable, and neither he nor I have ever been 'in bed' with David Duke as you so crudely and unjustifiably allege." The assertions made by Mr. Blumenthal are untrue and a distortion of the facts. http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=LH05F09 | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
On November 08 2008 08:02 oneofthem wrote: lol are you defending star wars You know what I have always thought would be awesome. I would love to see Iran develop some new missile that could easily reach Israel, and then when they decide to test it and show it off to the world as a PR stunt, I'd love to see their first missile get shot down from a US cruiser as a little "test" of our own. That, I think would be a clear signal that we are willing and capable of defending our middle eastern allies. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Flaccid
8895 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On November 08 2008 07:51 Savio wrote: As for Star Wars, it never benefitted Reagan, or Bush Sr. but it is becoming more and more common now-a-days that we are having successful tests at shooting down ballistic and medium range missiles. Who knows if that will ever come in handy in negotiations, diplomacy, and/or actual use. We will see. That's just not true. Our Patriot missile system is still terrible, and it's even worse than the Israeli counterpart. Right now they're only agitating the Russians more and even still there is no reliable method to shoot down a missile upon entry; you have to do it on launch which requires intelligence, not brute missile force. Not to mention we're only doing testing on crap like SCUDs. Do you know what's going to be the result when we see the next generation of MIRV missiles? Utter failure. It's a waste of time and money at this point, and one of many ridiculous military expenditures that Reagan put forth. Again, you cannot discount the money he wasted on the military. There were no game changing events that caused him to do it. At least Bush has 9/11. You know the system Tony Stark created in Iron Man? That's basically a next gen MIRV. ![[image loading]](http://www.billdolson.com/reentryseries/021126-O-9999G-015s.jpg) Yeah, it kicks ass. Both sides were supposed to get rid of their MIRVs until Bush fucked it up with the ABM treaty. | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Asked if candidates who “literally believe the world is 7 or 8,000 years old, which flies in contradiction of all scientific evidence” are qualified for the White House, Perkins replied: “I think so.” He went on to say: “I hold the same beliefs. And there’s a lot of Americans, especially in the faith community, that believe that God created the earth. And there are flaws in the evolutionary theory — and it is a theory … So, certainly doesn’t disqualify her in their minds.” You can almost predict by the name of his group and his haircut that he's going to be busted in a boy child pornography ring in about 15-20 years. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On November 08 2008 08:25 Savio wrote: Be sure you don't miss my above edit regarding Perkins. Just to further clarify about the Star Wars thing. 1980s MIRV >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ABM Shield After spending assloads on both ABM (SDI aka Star Wars) and MIRV, Reagan realizes this and starts negotiations for START I/II which eventually passes under Bush Sr., reducing the number of MIRVs from both Russia and the US. GWB decides to completely pull out of 30 year old ABM treaty (which Reagan ignored) and begin shield again, so Putin pulls out of START II. Russia begins r&d on new MIRV systems in 2007 2008 MIRV >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ABM Shield Yay! Oh, and Clinton had started work on START III to reduce even more nuclear warheads, but that died when Bush pulled out of the ABM treaty also. They signed SORT, but it doesn't come close to the cuts we were looking at before. When you consider that there's no reliable way to stop ICBMs BESIDES liftoff, you start to realize why Russia is so annoyed that we're putting a system in Poland and possibly Ukraine. It's not the fear of the shield, it's the fact that it'll be used to take out missiles before entry, nullifying their weapons. Deterrence and diplomacy can go hand in hand, but the shield totally fucks with deterrence. I guess this whole post is just a vote against neo-con foreign policy. I'm not sure that it will make a difference for electability, but for our sustenance I think it's pretty crucial. | ||
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onepost
Canada297 Posts
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
"Patriot systems have been sold to the Republic of China (Taiwan), Egypt, Germany, Greece, Israel, Japan, Kuwait, the Netherlands, Saudi Arabia, and Spain. The Republic of Korea is also in the process of purchasing several second-hand Patriot systems after North Korea test-launched several ballistic missiles to the Sea of Japan and went ahead with underground nuclear testing in 2006.[2] In August of 2008, the United States and Poland signed an agreement to temporarily station a US Patriot battalion to help deter attacks from rogue states and to guard the US missile defense complex in Poland." Seems like other countries don't consider the Patriots useless. I bet these missiles and their launch systems aren't cheap. source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot | ||
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