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2008 US Presidential Election - Page 9

Forum Index > General Forum
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Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
October 14 2008 02:34 GMT
#161
On October 14 2008 11:20 evandi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2008 11:17 D10 wrote:
Ok, here is a big one, Evandi, tell us, what do you know about socialism, and i dont want any sources, just type w/e comes to your mind.


Oh, I promise you. I will not look at any website or anything. I e-pinky swear. Scouts honor.

Socialism is where everybody is everybody else's business.

Its where wealth is redistributed to make everything fair and everything is shared.


There is no redistribution of wealth in socialism.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Savio
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1850 Posts
October 14 2008 02:42 GMT
#162
Evandi is right. There is nothing charitable in taking away someone else's money by force to give it to who you think needs it.

Charity is always voluntarily giving away your own money.

BTW, it may be interesting to compare the amount (even percentage wise) that McCain gives to charity and the amount Biden does.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. – Winston Churchill
Savio
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1850 Posts
October 14 2008 02:54 GMT
#163
On October 14 2008 11:28 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2008 11:15 evandi wrote:
On October 14 2008 11:12 D10 wrote:
So, as someone who thinks charity is a big bull, i must ask you, what do you think of Sarah Palin, a woman who thinks the biggest charity promoter ever to live on this earth, is a god/son of god (idk what her church teaches, really) ?

If she wasant such a hypocrite, she would agree that paying higher taxes = patriotic, and be a socialist, and etc... because its all about spreading the love/wealth


There are lots of "Christians" in this world and even perhaps in this thread.

Doctrinally I think they all agree with Palin on that.

"If she wasant such a hypocrite, she would agree that paying higher taxes = patriotic, and be a socialist, and etc... because its all about spreading the love/wealth"

Socialism is all about spreading other people's wealth.

No one is talking about pure socialism, and I think most people here agree that capitalism is more efficient and drives development faster than any other system (besides authoritarianism for periods of time.) The question is whether efficiency should be the ultimate ideal we strive for in America or whether we should strive for fairness. You might counter that any bit of socialism isn't fair, which in many cases it is not, but there is empirical and rational evidence that pure capitalism causes exploitation as well, given that the entire concept is BUILT around self interested gains aka greed.

I don't think greed is evil, it's quite natural and capitalism uses it for the benefit of society. Still, I believe a certain level of intervention and control is needed to attain an environment most conducive to overall happiness, which should be the ultimate goal for society. At some level, you have to agree with this as well so stop speaking about extremes and make the case for what type of capitalist/socialist distribution you think is best for society.



I agree with everything here. The question we as people and they as politicians have to decide is how to manage the tradeoff between efficiency and any other goal.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. – Winston Churchill
ahrara_
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Afghanistan1715 Posts
October 14 2008 03:19 GMT
#164
You're a moderate Savio, not a conservative.
in Afghanistan we have 20% literacy rate
Flaccid
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
8917 Posts
October 14 2008 03:25 GMT
#165
And on a lighter, much more offensive note:

[image loading]


Eeeeeeeeeek.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
October 14 2008 03:26 GMT
#166
rofl
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
October 14 2008 03:26 GMT
#167
haha that's so wrong
D10
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Brazil3409 Posts
October 14 2008 03:26 GMT
#168
In different circunstances, Evandi would be arguing with Savio.

Socialist should not be viewed as the ultimate government model, but as a tendency.
" We are not humans having spiritual experiences. - We are spirits having human experiences." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
October 14 2008 03:28 GMT
#169
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/campbell.brown.obama/index.html

I don't know what the hell has happened to her since she tore Tucker Bounds apart, but right now I would bang Campbell Brown until my penis broke.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14912 Posts
October 14 2008 03:34 GMT
#170
really? she's kinda milfy i guess but she's not that special?
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
October 14 2008 03:40 GMT
#171
It's got less to do with her looks and more to do with I've been saying what she said since the start of the election, and no one on any news network has said "it would be fine if he was a Muslim."
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
October 14 2008 03:45 GMT
#172
It'd be better if he said
"I have no idea how we got here".
Not an athiest or religious, just an honest
"I don't know. AND NEITHER DO YOU!!!"
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14912 Posts
October 14 2008 03:55 GMT
#173
On October 14 2008 12:40 Jibba wrote:
It's got less to do with her looks and more to do with I've been saying what she said since the start of the election, and no one on any news network has said "it would be fine if he was a Muslim."


oh ok, i hadn't read what she'd been saying
Savio
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1850 Posts
October 14 2008 04:01 GMT
#174
On October 14 2008 12:19 ahrara_ wrote:
You're a moderate Savio, not a conservative.


Thats a hard thing to measure since the GOP has strayed from conservatism.

But I do admit that I am not a libertarian.

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. – Winston Churchill
Savio
Profile Joined April 2008
United States1850 Posts
October 14 2008 04:12 GMT
#175
On October 14 2008 12:26 D10 wrote:
In different circunstances, Evandi would be arguing with Savio.


One of my econ professors in college used to be a socialist. He said he lived his life by a certain set of axioms. One was basically, "government is good". What he meant by that was that it was a tool to improve people's lives.

Then one day, after a lot of thought he changed one word in one axiom so it now says, "Goverment is bad".

So now he is a libertarian. And man...was he ever a staunch libertarian.

That was one time when I found myself defending some government intervention (like police for example).

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. – Winston Churchill
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
October 14 2008 04:21 GMT
#176
a libertarian eh?
right-libertarian or left-libertarian?
anarchist?
anarcho-capitalist?
or simply minarchist?
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-14 06:28:09
October 14 2008 06:14 GMT
#177
american libertarians are right libertarians.

and socialism in one country is messy, you drive the investment away. but i see this as a call for more global standards of labor and business practices, so that globalization is not a race to the bottom.

calling socialism a redistribution of wealth only highlights the difference between existing and desired distributions. if the society were following a socialist distribution, instituting a more stratified and capitalist distribution is still 'redistribution.' so redistribution is not specific to socialism, but rather to government actions with effect upon wealth and income. however, since the existing structure of distribution is already a product of political arrangements, the more blatant forms of redistribution are not so qualitatively distinct.

admittedly, to someone who views things like property structures and organizational patterns (such as, the capital enjoys initiative and massive position over labor) as mutable and improvable, the tax code is exactly what conservatives see it, an effort at redistribution, but hey, that's a good thing sometimes.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 14 2008 19:49 GMT
#178
The Washington lobbyist John McCain has named to head his presidential transition team aided an influence effort on behalf of Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein to ease international sanctions against his regime.

The two lobbyists who McCain aide William Timmons worked closely with over a five year period on the lobbying campaign later either pleaded guilty to or were convicted of federal criminal charges that they had acted as unregistered agents of Saddam Hussein's government.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/14/mccain-transition-chief-a_n_134595.html
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ahrara_
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Afghanistan1715 Posts
October 14 2008 19:57 GMT
#179
Somebody I know on facebook posted this note:

-- Holcom:
Take a look at this photo.
[image loading]

Obama, right, was dressed as a Somali elder during a visit in August 2006 to Wajir, a rural area in northeastern Kenya near the borders with Somalia and Ethiopia. (AP)


This guy could be the future leader of our country?
I don't have problems with other cultures, but I think that if a person is going to run a country, he or she should have especially strong ties to the culture of that country. Can we say that this is true of Barack Obama?

-- Holcom:
“It is debatable whether he even has genuine strong ties to the culture of this country. Even so, this raises a question of judgment considering that at this point in time he was preparing to run for the presidency and had to have known that his ties to Islam, real or not, would be a point of contention. Why would he feel that he needs to abandon his representation of his own country to placate some obscure dignitaries at a non-important event? Would these Somalis wear Mickey Mouse ears if they visited Disneyland? They would be outraged and refuse to participate if we asked them anything in conflict with their religion, which is of course their right. . . .
Watch the reaction to this – you can be sure that the media will ignore the fact that this did happen, and not comment on the significance of the act. Rather it will focus its attention and outrage on the idea that Hilary’s campaign would stoop to such smear tactics. We need to face facts - Hilary has always been generally disliked (rightfully so), and was only in favor as long as there was no other popular candidate. Obama has now been made into the “chosen one,” and has much better advisors than Hilary. When he does his dirty work, they make sure there is no trail that leads to him. . . .
The most crucial point here is that either Obama is compromising his own dignity and culture to show tolerance to people who practice intolerance (and in fact see tolerance in others as weakness to be exploited) or is embracing his “real” culture. Both are major causes for concern.”

-- Holcom:
My dad is right. If we’re picking the leader of our country, shouldn’t it be someone who proudly exhibits symbols of America (even something as small as the absence of that little American flag lapel pin speaks volumes). Shouldn’t it be someone who is proud enough to represent his (or her) own country, especially when visiting others?
Wouldn’t it make more sense to choose someone who has say, oh, I don’t know, 23 years experience in the United States military? Someone who served only 4 years as a Congressman before being elected to replace the great Barry Goldwater as a United States senator in Arizona (a position he has held for 24 years)? Someone who has always stood his ground firmly, even when under fire by fellow party members? (By the way, anyone who can stand up to his friends can certainly stand strong against his enemies). How about someone who we can say, over the course of his lifetime, has always been proud of his country and would protect it from those who want to destroy it by any means necessary?
Keep all this in mind when you cast your vote for the President of the United States of America. And don’t worry; I’ll be sure to remind you all come November

How fucking stupid do you have to be?! It hurt my head to read this nonsense.

especially considering


http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/11/images/20051119-5_p111905pm-0110-515h.html
in Afghanistan we have 20% literacy rate
Wolverine
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
138 Posts
October 14 2008 20:31 GMT
#180
On October 14 2008 13:01 Savio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2008 12:19 ahrara_ wrote:
You're a moderate Savio, not a conservative.


Thats a hard thing to measure since the GOP has strayed from conservatism.

But I do admit that I am not a libertarian.



You say you are not a Libertarian. In one of your other posts you say you are an Austrian economist. Which is it? Or are you simply trying to be socially accepted by the Left Wing crowd here? I've read nothing but ass kissing and Leftie pandering from every single one of your posts in these debate threads. Anyway, carry on.
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