On October 21 2008 02:46 D10 wrote: Look, as a person who lives in a country where public services are mediocre, I have to say to you, the long term impact of crappy education is far worse than what is said.
It leads to populism, crappy cadidates winning elections, and a cycle of worse governing that doesnt prioritize the inteligence of its people
O.O okay..maybe you are right..i dont really understand the american education system but i believe its far better than the Singaporean one and quite effective, looking at the talents they produce everyday, from World class "Rocket Scientists" to basketball players..you know..my country cant produce any real professionals, just bookworms who are good at examinations..
i feel that the american economy should be prioritized more because the education system is already comparatively top-notch..
Btw, does anyone here understands why the US dollar is rising all of a sudden when the credit crisis just happened..i think its because its near the end of the bush administration and there is more public confidence in Obama/McCain.. i am not living in america so i dont really have an idea..any suggestions anyone??
are you fucking kidding me? the usa has such a shit education. it's our universities that are good, but the other stuff sucks. most people either have to goto a private school or live in a rich neighborhood that would have taxes to fund a good education system in the area. in other words if you can't afford to get a good education when you're young your most likely never going to get into a great university and probably wont get the adequate scholarships for some of the cheaper ones in your areas.
most young americans can't even point out the middle east on a map and don't know what time period we landed on the moon. this isn't to say that Americans are stupid, but honestly our public education system sucks dick. if people arn't educated about what's going on it's very hard to start fixing things.
I went to public school in the poorest county of one of the poorest states but I took calculus my Junior year and got a 5 on AP exam. In Academic Decathlon, we won state and we all got lots of medals and set up real good for college. My senior year, we were state chess champions just because we had a small group of friends who all loved chess and worked our butts off (you may not believe this, but the security guard was our chess coach).
I think that the US education system gets a bad rap, but really, any student anywhere in the US can get an amazing education in high school if he tries to. That opportunity is what makes our education system great. Many places, that opportunity is not there without extra money.
Many people choose not to try to learn in high school. But that is more a result of culture rather than the system. I think that the culture of high school students is different in Japan than in the US. And culture is a hard thing to change.
How different is the culture between Canada and the US?
yet we score miles better than you. Hell. I remember reading a study where you guys got outperformed by brazil.
Don't blame it all on culture, the culture is the way it is because of the lack of respect for knowledge. And that lack of respect is the fault of the schools and/or the parents
On October 21 2008 13:14 Savio wrote: Just to illustrate that education is a state and local matter, even after Bush's orgy of increased federal spending on education:
Again, you can pull that either way. The failure of the Bush administration could either be that they should never try and enforce federal education requirements, or that they should do so but they massively underfunded the project from the federal level.
And yes, I know the Constitution leans towards the prior.
On October 21 2008 13:10 Jibba wrote: EDIT: Heritage has a massive slant. I'm sure you'll just say Brookings is the other way, but really Brookings is much closer to the middle that Heritage is.
Heritage is one of the better places to go to read "old school conservative" thought rather than Bush Rebublocrat policies.
They are definitely a group designed to encourage limited government and low taxes, but I also think that they are one of the most intelligent and coherent organizations to do so.
On October 21 2008 12:32 Cobalt wrote: About American education, John Stossel (I know, I know) did a special on it called "Stupid in America." Anyone wanting an introduction into the US's current state of education can look at it. It also shows a proposed solution to this problem, namely privatization of the education system, but again, John Stossel. It's good for the facts, provided you can pick them out of the opinions.
Here's the video:
Comparisons between HS students in the US and other countries will always make the US look bad because by the time kids in other countries will have finished school. In the US every student goes to high school not so in other countries. The problem is 6:20s in they admit the problem is only at the high school level that proves the education system works fine. If you want a fair test you need to take above average US students and compare them to average students from elsewhere. And in the show they complain about the class not doing anything after finals. Why are students supposed to do anything without any motivation? I am less then 7min in and I already destroyed this things entire premise.
And how stupid is 20/20 insulting the US for being behind Korea that is wrong on so many levels (reply or PM if you want/need details).
On October 21 2008 02:46 D10 wrote: Look, as a person who lives in a country where public services are mediocre, I have to say to you, the long term impact of crappy education is far worse than what is said.
It leads to populism, crappy cadidates winning elections, and a cycle of worse governing that doesnt prioritize the inteligence of its people
O.O okay..maybe you are right..i dont really understand the american education system but i believe its far better than the Singaporean one and quite effective, looking at the talents they produce everyday, from World class "Rocket Scientists" to basketball players..you know..my country cant produce any real professionals, just bookworms who are good at examinations..
i feel that the american economy should be prioritized more because the education system is already comparatively top-notch..
Btw, does anyone here understands why the US dollar is rising all of a sudden when the credit crisis just happened..i think its because its near the end of the bush administration and there is more public confidence in Obama/McCain.. i am not living in america so i dont really have an idea..any suggestions anyone??
are you fucking kidding me? the usa has such a shit education. it's our universities that are good, but the other stuff sucks. most people either have to goto a private school or live in a rich neighborhood that would have taxes to fund a good education system in the area. in other words if you can't afford to get a good education when you're young your most likely never going to get into a great university and probably wont get the adequate scholarships for some of the cheaper ones in your areas.
most young americans can't even point out the middle east on a map and don't know what time period we landed on the moon. this isn't to say that Americans are stupid, but honestly our public education system sucks dick. if people arn't educated about what's going on it's very hard to start fixing things.
I went to public school in the poorest county of one of the poorest states but I took calculus my Junior year and got a 5 on AP exam. In Academic Decathlon, we won state and we all got lots of medals and set up real good for college. My senior year, we were state chess champions just because we had a small group of friends who all loved chess and worked our butts off (you may not believe this, but the security guard was our chess coach).
I think that the US education system gets a bad rap, but really, any student anywhere in the US can get an amazing education in high school if he tries to. That opportunity is what makes our education system great. Many places, that opportunity is not there without extra money.
Many people choose not to try to learn in high school. But that is more a result of culture rather than the system. I think that the culture of high school students is different in Japan than in the US. And culture is a hard thing to change.
How different is the culture between Canada and the US?
yet we score miles better than you. Hell. I remember reading a study where you guys got outperformed by brazil.
Don't blame it all on culture, the culture is the way it is because of the lack of respect for knowledge. And that lack of respect is the fault of the schools and/or the parents
So... you're certain that the chicken came before the egg? :|
On October 21 2008 02:46 D10 wrote: Look, as a person who lives in a country where public services are mediocre, I have to say to you, the long term impact of crappy education is far worse than what is said.
It leads to populism, crappy cadidates winning elections, and a cycle of worse governing that doesnt prioritize the inteligence of its people
O.O okay..maybe you are right..i dont really understand the american education system but i believe its far better than the Singaporean one and quite effective, looking at the talents they produce everyday, from World class "Rocket Scientists" to basketball players..you know..my country cant produce any real professionals, just bookworms who are good at examinations..
i feel that the american economy should be prioritized more because the education system is already comparatively top-notch..
Btw, does anyone here understands why the US dollar is rising all of a sudden when the credit crisis just happened..i think its because its near the end of the bush administration and there is more public confidence in Obama/McCain.. i am not living in america so i dont really have an idea..any suggestions anyone??
are you fucking kidding me? the usa has such a shit education. it's our universities that are good, but the other stuff sucks. most people either have to goto a private school or live in a rich neighborhood that would have taxes to fund a good education system in the area. in other words if you can't afford to get a good education when you're young your most likely never going to get into a great university and probably wont get the adequate scholarships for some of the cheaper ones in your areas.
most young americans can't even point out the middle east on a map and don't know what time period we landed on the moon. this isn't to say that Americans are stupid, but honestly our public education system sucks dick. if people arn't educated about what's going on it's very hard to start fixing things.
I went to public school in the poorest county of one of the poorest states but I took calculus my Junior year and got a 5 on AP exam. In Academic Decathlon, we won state and we all got lots of medals and set up real good for college. My senior year, we were state chess champions just because we had a small group of friends who all loved chess and worked our butts off (you may not believe this, but the security guard was our chess coach).
I think that the US education system gets a bad rap, but really, any student anywhere in the US can get an amazing education in high school if he tries to. That opportunity is what makes our education system great. Many places, that opportunity is not there without extra money.
Many people choose not to try to learn in high school. But that is more a result of culture rather than the system. I think that the culture of high school students is different in Japan than in the US. And culture is a hard thing to change.
How different is the culture between Canada and the US?
yet we score miles better than you. Hell. I remember reading a study where you guys got outperformed by brazil.
Don't blame it all on culture, the culture is the way it is because of the lack of respect for knowledge. And that lack of respect is the fault of the schools and/or the parents
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I would like to see a source I could read about the comparison between Canadian and US education. I have never compared the two so I wanna read it. Thx.
On October 21 2008 13:10 Jibba wrote: EDIT: Heritage has a massive slant. I'm sure you'll just say Brookings is the other way, but really Brookings is much closer to the middle that Heritage is.
Heritage is one of the better places to go to read "old school conservative" thought rather than Bush Rebublocrat policies.
They are definitely a group designed to encourage limited government and low taxes, but I also think that they are one of the most intelligent and coherent organizations to do so.
Uh.. Heritage's slant is actually right towards neo-conservative thinking. Reagan was as much a Republocrat as Bush is and they're in love with him. Cato is the main place if you want serious conservative/libertarian analysis.
On October 21 2008 13:14 Savio wrote: Just to illustrate that education is a state and local matter, even after Bush's orgy of increased federal spending on education:
Again, you can pull that either way. The failure of the Bush administration could either be that they should never try and enforce federal education requirements, or that they should do so but they massively underfunded the project from the federal level.
And yes, I know the Constitution leans towards the prior.
I would be interested to know for sure, but I would not be surprised if Bush hasn't overseen the largest increase in federal spending on education in the history of the US.
On October 21 2008 13:10 Jibba wrote: EDIT: Heritage has a massive slant. I'm sure you'll just say Brookings is the other way, but really Brookings is much closer to the middle that Heritage is.
Heritage is one of the better places to go to read "old school conservative" thought rather than Bush Rebublocrat policies.
They are definitely a group designed to encourage limited government and low taxes, but I also think that they are one of the most intelligent and coherent organizations to do so.
Uh.. Heritage's slant is actually right towards neo-conservative thinking. Reagan was as much a Republocrat as Bush is and they're in love with him. Cato is the main place if you want serious conservative/libertarian analysis.
I have no idea where you get neoconservative ideas out of Heritage. They deal mostly with domestic issues rather than war and are NO fan of Bush's "Compassionate Conservatism".
Here is a link to all the Heritage articles on No Child Left Behind:
On October 21 2008 13:10 Jibba wrote: EDIT: Heritage has a massive slant. I'm sure you'll just say Brookings is the other way, but really Brookings is much closer to the middle that Heritage is.
Heritage is one of the better places to go to read "old school conservative" thought rather than Bush Rebublocrat policies.
They are definitely a group designed to encourage limited government and low taxes, but I also think that they are one of the most intelligent and coherent organizations to do so.
Uh.. Heritage's slant is actually right towards neo-conservative thinking. Reagan was as much a Republocrat as Bush is and they're in love with him. Cato is the main place if you want serious conservative/libertarian analysis.
I have no idea where you get neoconservative ideas out of Heritage. They deal mostly with domestic issues rather than war and are NO fan of Bush's "Compassionate Conservatism".
On October 21 2008 02:46 D10 wrote: Look, as a person who lives in a country where public services are mediocre, I have to say to you, the long term impact of crappy education is far worse than what is said.
It leads to populism, crappy cadidates winning elections, and a cycle of worse governing that doesnt prioritize the inteligence of its people
O.O okay..maybe you are right..i dont really understand the american education system but i believe its far better than the Singaporean one and quite effective, looking at the talents they produce everyday, from World class "Rocket Scientists" to basketball players..you know..my country cant produce any real professionals, just bookworms who are good at examinations..
i feel that the american economy should be prioritized more because the education system is already comparatively top-notch..
Btw, does anyone here understands why the US dollar is rising all of a sudden when the credit crisis just happened..i think its because its near the end of the bush administration and there is more public confidence in Obama/McCain.. i am not living in america so i dont really have an idea..any suggestions anyone??
are you fucking kidding me? the usa has such a shit education. it's our universities that are good, but the other stuff sucks. most people either have to goto a private school or live in a rich neighborhood that would have taxes to fund a good education system in the area. in other words if you can't afford to get a good education when you're young your most likely never going to get into a great university and probably wont get the adequate scholarships for some of the cheaper ones in your areas.
most young americans can't even point out the middle east on a map and don't know what time period we landed on the moon. this isn't to say that Americans are stupid, but honestly our public education system sucks dick. if people arn't educated about what's going on it's very hard to start fixing things.
I went to public school in the poorest county of one of the poorest states but I took calculus my Junior year and got a 5 on AP exam. In Academic Decathlon, we won state and we all got lots of medals and set up real good for college. My senior year, we were state chess champions just because we had a small group of friends who all loved chess and worked our butts off (you may not believe this, but the security guard was our chess coach).
I think that the US education system gets a bad rap, but really, any student anywhere in the US can get an amazing education in high school if he tries to. That opportunity is what makes our education system great. Many places, that opportunity is not there without extra money.
Many people choose not to try to learn in high school. But that is more a result of culture rather than the system. I think that the culture of high school students is different in Japan than in the US. And culture is a hard thing to change.
How different is the culture between Canada and the US?
yet we score miles better than you. Hell. I remember reading a study where you guys got outperformed by brazil.
Don't blame it all on culture, the culture is the way it is because of the lack of respect for knowledge. And that lack of respect is the fault of the schools and/or the parents
So... you're certain that the chicken came before the egg? :|
its not a question of chicken and egg
until the school system is fixed, the culture will continue to be anti-knowledge
well, the school system is in large part dependent on the culture. school is just a part of your day, and if you are not going to school, something on the periphery of your life. it is a complicated problem, mostly because the tools we have of manipulating people are so few and limited.
Well, im glad most here agree strong educational system is the basis for anything solid, because it has the oportunity to set some strong intelectual values, or destroy them if its a weak one.
savio i'm applauded that you'd honestly think our american education system is actually great. just because you have managed to make a success out of yourself doesn't excuse the fact that the vast majority of high school graduates leave with a god awful education. yes, it is possible to succeed in life, even under the worst circumstances.
i do agree it's somewhat up to the student to succeed but the public schools i attended growing up were god awful. i had teachers who were completely incompetent and there was no order in the classroom whatsoever. i've had teachers tell me i was stupid and others who would do my homework for me so that when the principal looked at it (this teacher was in trouble with the school) it appeared that i was learning. It wasn't until i got sent to a private school that i got a real education and luckily got into a great college.
wswordsmen you need to watch the rest of the video if you think you're owning this up 7 mins in. i think the documentaries point about creating competition (but not like bushes no child left behind) is a good thing.
TimeShifter: most good universities are made of outstanding public school students (like savio's s tory), private school students, homeschooled students and outstanding students from other countries.
EPT
