EPT2008 US Presidential Election - Page 29
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LxRogue
United States1415 Posts
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Fzero
United States1503 Posts
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TimeShifter
Singapore235 Posts
On October 21 2008 02:46 D10 wrote: Look, as a person who lives in a country where public services are mediocre, I have to say to you, the long term impact of crappy education is far worse than what is said. It leads to populism, crappy cadidates winning elections, and a cycle of worse governing that doesnt prioritize the inteligence of its people O.O okay..maybe you are right..i dont really understand the american education system but i believe its far better than the Singaporean one and quite effective, looking at the talents they produce everyday, from World class "Rocket Scientists" to basketball players..you know..my country cant produce any real professionals, just bookworms who are good at examinations.. i feel that the american economy should be prioritized more because the education system is already comparatively top-notch.. Btw, does anyone here understands why the US dollar is rising all of a sudden when the credit crisis just happened..i think its because its near the end of the bush administration and there is more public confidence in Obama/McCain.. i am not living in america so i dont really have an idea..any suggestions anyone?? | ||
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Rayzorblade
United States1172 Posts
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a-game
Canada5085 Posts
On October 21 2008 11:25 TimeShifter wrote: Btw, does anyone here understands why the US dollar is rising all of a sudden when the credit crisis just happened..i think its because its near the end of the bush administration and there is more public confidence in Obama/McCain.. i am not living in america so i dont really have an idea..any suggestions anyone?? i'm not an economist or anything, but i think maybe it's because the financial system is so shaky right now that all the investors are putting their money into treasury yields, because it's the only safe place left to hold your money, so maybe that is pushing up the value of the US dollar | ||
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azndsh
United States4447 Posts
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MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
On October 21 2008 11:25 TimeShifter wrote: O.O okay..maybe you are right..i dont really understand the american education system but i believe its far better than the Singaporean one and quite effective, looking at the talents they produce everyday, from World class "Rocket Scientists" to basketball players..you know..my country cant produce any real professionals, just bookworms who are good at examinations.. i feel that the american economy should be prioritized more because the education system is already comparatively top-notch.. Btw, does anyone here understands why the US dollar is rising all of a sudden when the credit crisis just happened..i think its because its near the end of the bush administration and there is more public confidence in Obama/McCain.. i am not living in america so i dont really have an idea..any suggestions anyone?? are you fucking kidding me? the usa has such a shit education. it's our universities that are good, but the other stuff sucks. most people either have to goto a private school or live in a rich neighborhood that would have taxes to fund a good education system in the area. in other words if you can't afford to get a good education when you're young your most likely never going to get into a great university and probably wont get the adequate scholarships for some of the cheaper ones in your areas. most young americans can't even point out the middle east on a map and don't know what time period we landed on the moon. this isn't to say that Americans are stupid, but honestly our public education system sucks dick. if people arn't educated about what's going on it's very hard to start fixing things. | ||
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TimeShifter
Singapore235 Posts
On October 21 2008 12:13 MyLostTemple wrote: are you fucking kidding me? the usa has such a shit education. it's our universities that are good, but the other stuff sucks. most people either have to goto a private school or live in a rich neighborhood that would have taxes to fund a good education system in the area. in other words if you can't afford to get a good education when you're young your most likely never going to get into a great university and probably wont get the adequate scholarships for some of the cheaper ones in your areas. most young americans can't even point out the middle east on a map and don't know what time period we landed on the moon. this isn't to say that Americans are stupid, but honestly our public education system sucks dick. if people arn't educated about what's going on it's very hard to start fixing things. i say you have a point..perhaps so..so there's a need to reform the lower rungs of education..i was wondering what was the Bush administration doing when the situation is that bad..sorry..i dint know..i am no american.. | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On October 21 2008 11:32 Rayzorblade wrote: The education system in America is terrible in comparison to the other rich democracies in the world. Yet you spend more on it per capita than any other nation according to Obama in the third debate. How does that happen? | ||
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Cobalt
United States441 Posts
Here's the video: | ||
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TimeShifter
Singapore235 Posts
On October 21 2008 12:32 Cobalt wrote: About American education, John Stossel (I know, I know) did a special on it called "Stupid in America." Anyone wanting an introduction into the US's current state of education can look at it. It also shows a proposed solution to this problem, namely privatization of the education system, but again, John Stossel. It's good for the facts, provided you can pick them out of the opinions. Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw i dont know..but since the schools are that bad, how the kids get into the good universities like MyLostTemple wrote? | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
On October 21 2008 12:13 MyLostTemple wrote: are you fucking kidding me? the usa has such a shit education. it's our universities that are good, but the other stuff sucks. most people either have to goto a private school or live in a rich neighborhood that would have taxes to fund a good education system in the area. in other words if you can't afford to get a good education when you're young your most likely never going to get into a great university and probably wont get the adequate scholarships for some of the cheaper ones in your areas. most young americans can't even point out the middle east on a map and don't know what time period we landed on the moon. this isn't to say that Americans are stupid, but honestly our public education system sucks dick. if people arn't educated about what's going on it's very hard to start fixing things. I went to public school in the poorest county of one of the poorest states but I took calculus my Junior year and got a 5 on AP exam. In Academic Decathlon, we won state and we all got lots of medals and set up real good for college. My senior year, we were state chess champions just because we had a small group of friends who all loved chess and worked our butts off (you may not believe this, but the security guard was our chess coach). I think that the US education system gets a bad rap, but really, any student anywhere in the US can get an amazing education in high school if he tries to. That opportunity is what makes our education system great. Many places, that opportunity is not there without extra money. Many people choose not to try to learn in high school. But that is more a result of culture rather than the system. I think that the culture of high school students is different in Japan than in the US. And culture is a hard thing to change. | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
I am not convinced that the federal government should be the one trying to "fix" education at all. I don't think it is particularly more efficient than state governments. EDIT: The department of education was created in 1980. Source: http://www.ed.gov/about/landing.jhtml?src=gu Now you get to decide whether or not you think the federal government has had a positive impact. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 21 2008 12:39 TimeShifter wrote: i dont know..but since the schools are that bad, how the kids get into the good universities like MyLostTemple wrote? There are many very good public schools in the US, the problem is that there's a large gap between the poor schools and the rich schools, and even some of the better schools are started to falter. It's a very complicated problem and they're sorting pushing down the schools at the top instead of helping the bottom schools become better. But if you come from a poor neighborhood that likely has a worse school district, it's much more difficult to make it to a top university than otherwise. Some people think we need privatization, but I think the problem has slowly developed for at least 20 years, probably starting when Reagan whored out the education system for more military spending. Even if markets are more efficient in the long term, their adjustments are always a slow process and there will always be more ways to exploit the system. A more government heavy system seems to work in W. Europe, so it makes sense to move in that direction. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 21 2008 12:49 Savio wrote: I went to public school in the poorest county of one of the poorest states but I took calculus my Junior year and got a 5 on AP exam. In Academic Decathlon, we won state and we all got lots of medals and set up real good for college. My senior year, we were state chess champions just because we had a small group of friends who all loved chess and worked our butts off (you may not believe this, but the security guard was our chess coach). I think that the US education system gets a bad rap, but really, any student anywhere in the US can get an amazing education in high school if he tries to. That opportunity is what makes our education system great. Many places, that opportunity is not there without extra money. Many people choose not to try to learn in high school. But that is more a result of culture rather than the system. I think that the culture of high school students is different in Japan than in the US. And culture is a hard thing to change. I think part of the culture is created by the education system, and you see that reflected in the great disparities between different states. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On October 21 2008 12:53 Savio wrote: BTW, historically, the federal government hasn't been a major force in public education. Education is primarily a state issue and always has been. The federal government has given extra money to states but only recently under Bush has it tried to start directing it. I am not convinced that the federal government should be the one trying to "fix" education at all. I don't think it is particularly more efficient than state governments. EDIT: The department of education was created in 1980. Source: http://www.ed.gov/about/landing.jhtml?src=gu Now you get to decide whether or not you think the federal government has had a positive impact. Yeah, but the federal government had been giving states large block grants prior to that, which Reagan cut. So even if the USDE was created then, funding was being cut back overall. Is the goal of public education efficiency or fairness? I think a Rawlsian perspective in healthy in this circumstance. | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
Most of these issues, if they are going to be tampered with at all by a government should be tampered with by a state government rather than the federal. Let the federal government fight our wars for us, regulate inter-state commerce and do other such things (like those actually stated in the constitution) that states can't do on their own. | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Education/ednotes49.cfm | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the present reality has it that certain groups with common histories and positions are disproportionally unqualified in schools. the simple way of understanding these inequalities might be to point to racial or class deficiencies, call outwardly exhibited behavior a result of simple innate failings. doing so would be to follow a long tradition of viewing people and things. or we could note that the problems of motivation and social alienation are distinct phenomenons, that these human behaviors are not merely incidental failures of the will. although the translation between identifying various so called social factors as causes and finding solutions is difficult, we could at least say that the abstract and denigrating view of social defect as individual problems is uninformed. taken as a piece of social mechanism, the narrative of rugged individual work is probably valuable. however, it is a horrible starting point from which to view social conditions. many of the seemingly outrageous protests from lazy blacks and stupid mexicans do nto seem so outrageous once one attempts to hear their stories. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Btw, you never responded about McCain's Supreme Court Justice answer. He agrees with me.  I actually have faith that he'd appoint a more liberal justice, because he's not a hardline social conservative and he probably understands the balance required.EDIT: Heritage has a massive slant. I'm sure you'll just say Brookings is the other way, but really Brookings is much closer to the middle that Heritage is. | ||
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