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On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!"
Another point is that that just means who has more bodies of the other side, not how many bodies there are. If you are advancing, however slowly, you get access to more bodies, yours and the other sides.
Russia is currently very slowly advancing, so of course they get more fresh corpses, because fresh corpses are where people are fighting, and if you advance, you get the area where people were just fighting, that is full of corpses. Then you have a lot of corpses.
I already explained that the last time zeo posted this stat, obviously he didn't react.
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On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:
Bunch of nonsense...
Also, if Russia was winning 32.8 to 1. Don't you think maybe they should have been able to capture Pokrovsk by now?
I'm noticing you are still refusing to comment on that
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On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!"
Just to put his insinuations in context: we know 150k Russian KIA by name. If assume Ukraine took 33 casualties for every Russian one, that's roughly 5M KIA. The adult male population of Ukraine is about 15M, so that's 1/3 of Ukrainian men KIA. That's bonkers. ;-)
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On December 20 2025 23:17 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!" Just to put his insinuations in context: we know 150k Russian KIA by name. If assume Ukraine took 33 casualties for every Russian one, that's roughly 5M KIA. The adult male population of Ukraine is about 15M, so that's 1/3 of Ukrainian men KIA. That's bonkers. ;-)
Too bonkers to be true? For you and me maybe, but for zeo it's just evidence that Ukraine should've surrendered ages ago, but should definitely do it now before they lose the remaining 10m too...
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On December 21 2025 00:11 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 23:17 maybenexttime wrote:On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!" Just to put his insinuations in context: we know 150k Russian KIA by name. If assume Ukraine took 33 casualties for every Russian one, that's roughly 5M KIA. The adult male population of Ukraine is about 15M, so that's 1/3 of Ukrainian men KIA. That's bonkers. ;-) Too bonkers to be true? For you and me maybe, but for zeo it's just evidence that Ukraine should've surrendered ages ago, but should definitely do it now before they lose the remaining 10m too...
Don't worry, Ukraine will surely surrender when Russia finally captures Pokrovsk. I mean, it's almost a capital of Ukraine, is it not? One of the biggest cities in Ukraine with a pre-war population of 75k people.
Oh wait, to get Donbas they also need to capture Kramatorsk (150k) and Sloviansk (100k), not including smaller cities like Kostiantinyvka (67k) that are on the way to them... So, those 3 cities alone at the current rate Russia is capturing them would add 10 years to the schedule of capturing the region of Donbas? That's of course assuming they can eventually capture Pokrovsk within a month or two from now.
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On December 20 2025 19:50 aseq wrote:
You believe those numbers are an indication of the casualties? Then Ukraine must be almost empty by now. And there should be no need for Russia to bring in North Koreans and Africans, 32 to 1 means they're running over them! They should reach Kyiv in a day or 2!
From your last link: "According to Ukraine, Russia has repeatedly attempted to hand over bodies of its own killed soldiers passed off as Ukrainians, attempting to hide the scale of its losses from the Russian public."
I didn't say anything or comment on the numbers. This is one of the few factually correct statistics corroborated by both sides in the conflict. Facts and statistics agreed upon by both sides should be promoted ahead of baseless sensationalism peddled for upvotes in niche circles.
With your second paragraph, Ukrainian officials did say that and if its true here is a massive chance to humiliate Russia, I'm sure they can back up these claims with easy evidence that the dead bodies coming in are not Ukrainian and they can hand these bodies back to Russia in next exchanges. Very easy to come up with hard evidence and I'm sure there are articles with names, dates, exact numbers ect. Its far to easy for Ukraine to pass up the chance, could you please link the studies showing the bodies were actually Russian soldiers?
On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!"
I didn't state the exchange of bodies meant anything in my post, you are the one jumping to hysterical conclusions out of fear the narrative is slipping. Also, 'third party evidance'. Lol
On December 20 2025 22:14 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!" Another point is that that just means who has more bodies of the other side, not how many bodies there are. If you are advancing, however slowly, you get access to more bodies, yours and the other sides. Russia is currently very slowly advancing, so of course they get more fresh corpses, because fresh corpses are where people are fighting, and if you advance, you get the area where people were just fighting, that is full of corpses. Then you have a lot of corpses. I already explained that the last time zeo posted this stat, obviously he didn't react.
So, by your logic Ukraine hasn't advanced even the slightest or taken back any territory if these numbers mean what you think they mean? Interesting
On December 20 2025 22:16 Excludos wrote:Also, if Russia was winning 32.8 to 1. Don't you think maybe they should have been able to capture Pokrovsk by now? I'm noticing you are still refusing to comment on that
The entirety of Pokrovsk fell completely into Russian hands on December the 2nd, with the Myrnograd encirclement coming to an end today according to most neutral sources. Though a lot of Ukrainian soldiers were trapped, some might be holding out in isolated pockets though the fact remains that organized defense has effectively ended
On December 20 2025 23:17 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!" Just to put his insinuations in context: we know 150k Russian KIA by name. If assume Ukraine took 33 casualties for every Russian one, that's roughly 5M KIA. The adult male population of Ukraine is about 15M, so that's 1/3 of Ukrainian men KIA. That's bonkers. ;-)
You need to put more effort into your strawmaning. The casualty ratio is not 32 - 1, its lopsided but not that much. It is however indicative of the fact that the Russians are advancing faster into areas where Kiev forces don't have enough time to remove the bodies of their fallen comrades. Contrary to popular belief, both sides don't just leave their dead, they pick them up. Russia only started handing over dead Ukrainians in the thousands after the failed Kursk incursion, I remember reading some Russian officials stating that after the pocket collapsed there were 14.000 dead bodies left behind and that most of the bodies being exchanged now are still the bodies of Ukrainian soldiers left over from Kursk but I guess we will see when / if the bodies start drying up. Who knows
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Hey zeo good that you're back to answering people. I'm sure it was an innocent mistake but the last time around you forgot to tell us why "putinism" wasn't fascism, I'm sure you have time to do it now given how long you just spent on that post
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On December 21 2025 05:11 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 19:50 aseq wrote:
You believe those numbers are an indication of the casualties? Then Ukraine must be almost empty by now. And there should be no need for Russia to bring in North Koreans and Africans, 32 to 1 means they're running over them! They should reach Kyiv in a day or 2!
From your last link: "According to Ukraine, Russia has repeatedly attempted to hand over bodies of its own killed soldiers passed off as Ukrainians, attempting to hide the scale of its losses from the Russian public." I didn't say anything or comment on the numbers. This is one of the few factually correct statistics corroborated by both sides in the conflict. Facts and statistics agreed upon by both sides should be promoted ahead of baseless sensationalism peddled for upvotes in niche circles. With your second paragraph, Ukrainian officials did say that and if its true here is a massive chance to humiliate Russia, I'm sure they can back up these claims with easy evidence that the dead bodies coming in are not Ukrainian and they can hand these bodies back to Russia in next exchanges. Very easy to come up with hard evidence and I'm sure there are articles with names, dates, exact numbers ect. Its far to easy for Ukraine to pass up the chance, could you please link the studies showing the bodies were actually Russian soldiers? Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!" I didn't state the exchange of bodies meant anything in my post, you are the one jumping to hysterical conclusions out of fear the narrative is slipping. Also, 'third party evidance'. Lol Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 22:14 Simberto wrote:On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!" Another point is that that just means who has more bodies of the other side, not how many bodies there are. If you are advancing, however slowly, you get access to more bodies, yours and the other sides. Russia is currently very slowly advancing, so of course they get more fresh corpses, because fresh corpses are where people are fighting, and if you advance, you get the area where people were just fighting, that is full of corpses. Then you have a lot of corpses. I already explained that the last time zeo posted this stat, obviously he didn't react. So, by your logic Ukraine hasn't advanced even the slightest or taken back any territory if these numbers mean what you think they mean? Interesting Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 22:16 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:
Bunch of nonsense... Also, if Russia was winning 32.8 to 1. Don't you think maybe they should have been able to capture Pokrovsk by now? I'm noticing you are still refusing to comment on that The entirety of Pokrovsk fell completely into Russian hands on December the 2nd, with the Myrnograd encirclement coming to an end today according to most neutral sources. Though a lot of Ukrainian soldiers were trapped, some might be holding out in isolated pockets though the fact remains that organized defense has effectively ended Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 23:17 maybenexttime wrote:On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!" Just to put his insinuations in context: we know 150k Russian KIA by name. If assume Ukraine took 33 casualties for every Russian one, that's roughly 5M KIA. The adult male population of Ukraine is about 15M, so that's 1/3 of Ukrainian men KIA. That's bonkers. ;-) You need to put more effort into your strawmaning. The casualty ratio is not 32 - 1, its lopsided but not that much. It is however indicative of the fact that the Russians are advancing faster into areas where Kiev forces don't have enough time to remove the bodies of their fallen comrades. Contrary to popular belief, both sides don't just leave their dead, they pick them up. Russia only started handing over dead Ukrainians in the thousands after the failed Kursk incursion, I remember reading some Russian officials stating that after the pocket collapsed there were 14.000 dead bodies left behind and that most of the bodies being exchanged now are still the bodies of Ukrainian soldiers left over from Kursk but I guess we will see when / if the bodies start drying up. Who knows
Ah, so we're just going full denial of reality now. Gotcha
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On December 21 2025 05:11 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 19:50 aseq wrote:
You believe those numbers are an indication of the casualties? Then Ukraine must be almost empty by now. And there should be no need for Russia to bring in North Koreans and Africans, 32 to 1 means they're running over them! They should reach Kyiv in a day or 2!
From your last link: "According to Ukraine, Russia has repeatedly attempted to hand over bodies of its own killed soldiers passed off as Ukrainians, attempting to hide the scale of its losses from the Russian public." I didn't say anything or comment on the numbers. This is one of the few factually correct statistics corroborated by both sides in the conflict. Facts and statistics agreed upon by both sides should be promoted ahead of baseless sensationalism peddled for upvotes in niche circles. With your second paragraph, Ukrainian officials did say that and if its true here is a massive chance to humiliate Russia, I'm sure they can back up these claims with easy evidence that the dead bodies coming in are not Ukrainian and they can hand these bodies back to Russia in next exchanges. Very easy to come up with hard evidence and I'm sure there are articles with names, dates, exact numbers ect. Its far to easy for Ukraine to pass up the chance, could you please link the studies showing the bodies were actually Russian soldiers? Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!" I didn't state the exchange of bodies meant anything in my post, you are the one jumping to hysterical conclusions out of fear the narrative is slipping. Also, 'third party evidance'. Lol Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 22:14 Simberto wrote:On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!" Another point is that that just means who has more bodies of the other side, not how many bodies there are. If you are advancing, however slowly, you get access to more bodies, yours and the other sides. Russia is currently very slowly advancing, so of course they get more fresh corpses, because fresh corpses are where people are fighting, and if you advance, you get the area where people were just fighting, that is full of corpses. Then you have a lot of corpses. I already explained that the last time zeo posted this stat, obviously he didn't react. So, by your logic Ukraine hasn't advanced even the slightest or taken back any territory if these numbers mean what you think they mean? Interesting Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 22:16 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:
Bunch of nonsense... Also, if Russia was winning 32.8 to 1. Don't you think maybe they should have been able to capture Pokrovsk by now? I'm noticing you are still refusing to comment on that The entirety of Pokrovsk fell completely into Russian hands on December the 2nd, with the Myrnograd encirclement coming to an end today according to most neutral sources. Though a lot of Ukrainian soldiers were trapped, some might be holding out in isolated pockets though the fact remains that organized defense has effectively ended Show nested quote +On December 20 2025 23:17 maybenexttime wrote:On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!" Just to put his insinuations in context: we know 150k Russian KIA by name. If assume Ukraine took 33 casualties for every Russian one, that's roughly 5M KIA. The adult male population of Ukraine is about 15M, so that's 1/3 of Ukrainian men KIA. That's bonkers. ;-) You need to put more effort into your strawmaning. The casualty ratio is not 32 - 1, its lopsided but not that much. It is however indicative of the fact that the Russians are advancing faster into areas where Kiev forces don't have enough time to remove the bodies of their fallen comrades. Contrary to popular belief, both sides don't just leave their dead, they pick them up. Russia only started handing over dead Ukrainians in the thousands after the failed Kursk incursion, I remember reading some Russian officials stating that after the pocket collapsed there were 14.000 dead bodies left behind and that most of the bodies being exchanged now are still the bodies of Ukrainian soldiers left over from Kursk but I guess we will see when / if the bodies start drying up. Who knows
Our of curiosity what is the casualty ratio? And why when Russia has so many more troops and equipment is their advancement so slow?
Generally the offensive forces take more damage then the defense and when it is the opposite that means it is a complete walk over like what happened recently in Syria.
What mistakes are the Russians making that they are killing so many more than losing but progressing meters a day?
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On December 21 2025 05:11 zeo wrote:
The entirety of Pokrovsk fell completely into Russian hands on December the 2nd, with the Myrnograd encirclement coming to an end today according to most neutral sources. Though a lot of Ukrainian soldiers were trapped, some might be holding out in isolated pockets though the fact remains that organized defense has effectively ended
Where are you getting your facts from? If on December 2nd all of Pokrovsk was in Russian hands then why maps indicate that between then and today they managed to advance a whole 970m (and still don't control all of Pokrovsk)?
In any case, must feel good to finally be so close to triumph of capturing a small city after 2 years and having lost 5x more soldiers than the city had inhabitants before the war.
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On December 21 2025 05:11 zeo wrote:You need to put more effort into your strawmaning. The casualty ratio is not 32 - 1, its lopsided but not that much. It is however indicative of the fact that the Russians are advancing faster into areas where Kiev forces don't have enough time to remove the bodies of their fallen comrades. Contrary to popular belief, both sides don't just leave their dead, they pick them up. Russia only started handing over dead Ukrainians in the thousands after the failed Kursk incursion, I remember reading some Russian officials stating that after the pocket collapsed there were 14.000 dead bodies left behind and that most of the bodies being exchanged now are still the bodies of Ukrainian soldiers left over from Kursk but I guess we will see when / if the bodies start drying up. Who knows
Not my fault you constantly resort to insinuations instead of making an actual point. And when you do it's something out of Lalaland. ;-)
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On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:
16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS
You do know that Ukraine is losing roughly 30 times more ground than it's taking?
These values can indicate ground control but not combat casualties ratio.
Especially since direct combat casualties are a minority among KIAs.
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Let's also not forget the rampant corruption among the Russia commanders. They get their soldiers killed but do not declare them KIA to collect their salaries. This has been reported by several established Russian war bloggers. So Russians are disincentivized from collecting the bodies.
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On December 21 2025 05:36 Nebuchad wrote:
Hey zeo good that you're back to answering people. I'm sure it was an innocent mistake but the last time around you forgot to tell us why "putinism" wasn't fascism, I'm sure you have time to do it now given how long you just spent on that post
Welp, I have some time again. No, it wasn't really an innocent mistake I believe more in the mantra 'let someone make a fool out of themselves instead of stooping to the level of legitimizing the fool'. Its worked out good in the past.
The simple fact is that actual fascists, neo-nazis and ultra nationalists hate Putin with a passion, for as long as he has been in power in Russia. Not just islamophobe bigots like Navalny, but the whole spectre of far right in Russia, the ones gloating openly over writing poems about Hitler and translating the Christchurch shooters manifesto into Russian that are lauded on this forum as heroes. To these people having a swastika tattooed on your forehead is not a sign you are a fascist if you are against Putin so there's not much you can say on the matter.
On December 21 2025 06:26 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2025 05:11 zeo wrote:On December 20 2025 19:50 aseq wrote:
You believe those numbers are an indication of the casualties? Then Ukraine must be almost empty by now. And there should be no need for Russia to bring in North Koreans and Africans, 32 to 1 means they're running over them! They should reach Kyiv in a day or 2!
From your last link: "According to Ukraine, Russia has repeatedly attempted to hand over bodies of its own killed soldiers passed off as Ukrainians, attempting to hide the scale of its losses from the Russian public." I didn't say anything or comment on the numbers. This is one of the few factually correct statistics corroborated by both sides in the conflict. Facts and statistics agreed upon by both sides should be promoted ahead of baseless sensationalism peddled for upvotes in niche circles. With your second paragraph, Ukrainian officials did say that and if its true here is a massive chance to humiliate Russia, I'm sure they can back up these claims with easy evidence that the dead bodies coming in are not Ukrainian and they can hand these bodies back to Russia in next exchanges. Very easy to come up with hard evidence and I'm sure there are articles with names, dates, exact numbers ect. Its far to easy for Ukraine to pass up the chance, could you please link the studies showing the bodies were actually Russian soldiers? On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!" I didn't state the exchange of bodies meant anything in my post, you are the one jumping to hysterical conclusions out of fear the narrative is slipping. Also, 'third party evidance'. Lol On December 20 2025 22:14 Simberto wrote:On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!" Another point is that that just means who has more bodies of the other side, not how many bodies there are. If you are advancing, however slowly, you get access to more bodies, yours and the other sides. Russia is currently very slowly advancing, so of course they get more fresh corpses, because fresh corpses are where people are fighting, and if you advance, you get the area where people were just fighting, that is full of corpses. Then you have a lot of corpses. I already explained that the last time zeo posted this stat, obviously he didn't react. So, by your logic Ukraine hasn't advanced even the slightest or taken back any territory if these numbers mean what you think they mean? Interesting On December 20 2025 22:16 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:
Bunch of nonsense... Also, if Russia was winning 32.8 to 1. Don't you think maybe they should have been able to capture Pokrovsk by now? I'm noticing you are still refusing to comment on that The entirety of Pokrovsk fell completely into Russian hands on December the 2nd, with the Myrnograd encirclement coming to an end today according to most neutral sources. Though a lot of Ukrainian soldiers were trapped, some might be holding out in isolated pockets though the fact remains that organized defense has effectively ended On December 20 2025 23:17 maybenexttime wrote:On December 20 2025 22:10 Excludos wrote:On December 20 2025 19:28 zeo wrote:The December exchange of bodies took place yesterday. 1003 UKR bodies for 26 RUS servicemen16.370 UKR bodies exchanged for 499 Russian ones if they are added to the tally from the previous post, the current exchange rate is 32,8 UKR bodies to 1 RUS Wait, wait, wait. You think the exchange of bodies is an indication of who has the most deaths? Dude, what you're seeing here is Ukraine caring about their dead, and Russia not giving a shit, they only want a few of their top brass back. Russia cares so little about their own dead that they keep handing them over to Ukraine in these very same exchanges. The level of illogical hoops you had to jump through to get to this statement is incredible. "Third party evidence? Naah. Russia's own numbers? Naah! Ukraine is losing 32.8 to 1 because of an exchange of bodies that happened!" Just to put his insinuations in context: we know 150k Russian KIA by name. If assume Ukraine took 33 casualties for every Russian one, that's roughly 5M KIA. The adult male population of Ukraine is about 15M, so that's 1/3 of Ukrainian men KIA. That's bonkers. ;-) You need to put more effort into your strawmaning. The casualty ratio is not 32 - 1, its lopsided but not that much. It is however indicative of the fact that the Russians are advancing faster into areas where Kiev forces don't have enough time to remove the bodies of their fallen comrades. Contrary to popular belief, both sides don't just leave their dead, they pick them up. Russia only started handing over dead Ukrainians in the thousands after the failed Kursk incursion, I remember reading some Russian officials stating that after the pocket collapsed there were 14.000 dead bodies left behind and that most of the bodies being exchanged now are still the bodies of Ukrainian soldiers left over from Kursk but I guess we will see when / if the bodies start drying up. Who knows Our of curiosity what is the casualty ratio? And why when Russia has so many more troops and equipment is their advancement so slow? Generally the offensive forces take more damage then the defense and when it is the opposite that means it is a complete walk over like what happened recently in Syria. What mistakes are the Russians making that they are killing so many more than losing but progressing meters a day?
One point that was constantly hammered home in the second half of 2022 was how many people Ukraine managed to get under arms in the first months of the war. There was talk of it reaching 2 million, or some 4-5 times what the Russians had in Ukraine at that point. Russians went into full defence (apart from Wagner) and years later its the Russians that have the manpower advantage.
The front lines were filled to the brim and a lot of Ukrainians had to die or be injured for there to be enough holes for the Russians to be exponentially advancing like they are now, drones help the UKR side a lot though. Thats just the war attritional wars go.
On December 21 2025 06:48 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2025 05:11 zeo wrote:
The entirety of Pokrovsk fell completely into Russian hands on December the 2nd, with the Myrnograd encirclement coming to an end today according to most neutral sources. Though a lot of Ukrainian soldiers were trapped, some might be holding out in isolated pockets though the fact remains that organized defense has effectively ended Where are you getting your facts from? If on December 2nd all of Pokrovsk was in Russian hands then why maps indicate that between then and today they managed to advance a whole 970m (and still don't control all of Pokrovsk)? In any case, must feel good to finally be so close to triumph of capturing a small city after 2 years and having lost 5x more soldiers than the city had inhabitants before the war.
Its been kind of sad to see this kind of Endsieg tier delusional propaganda over the last couple of months coming out of the pro-UKR camps. Its almost at the 'off the wall' stupid levels it was at the beginning. It relies on closed bubbles fed on soundbites of what they want to hear along with aggressive denial of reality and building their tower of cards out of that. The fact is at some point reality cannot be ignored any longer.
Take Seversk as an example, a grey zone for weeks then poof, magically the entire settlement is in Russian hands. When in fact if fell weeks ago, just the mappers fear for their lives if they live in Ukraine, or fear for their source of income if their main audience labels them 'pro-Russian' for telling the truth.
As a rule of thumb, the more stupid the propaganda, the more desperate the situation at the front is getting, so take a look at these headlines:
Starving Russian soldiers recorded ‘plotting to eat fellow troops’
Losses mount for Russia as 400,000 troops killed or wounded in a year
Its not the 90s or 00s where this kind of trash can just be taken as is anymore. With Endsieg propaganda though Goebbles was talking about total victory even as the Russians closed in on Berlin
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If Pokrovsk has already been captured then why are fights still going on in the area and Russians aren't gloating they've taken it? Do they fear another Kupyansk where they announce they've taken it and a few days later they lose it completely?
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On December 24 2025 23:15 Manit0u wrote:
If Pokrovsk has already been captured than why are fights still going on in the area and Russians aren't gloating they've taken it? Do they fear another Kupyansk where they announce they've taken it and a few days later they lose it completely?
Understatement of the year. They lost it so completely Zelenskyy went "Oh, it's actually safe for even me to be here now" and drove there to take a picture in front of the city sign. For that to happen, it couldn't have been "just lost" with fighting going on in and around it. There couldn't have been any fighting anywhere in the area
Wonder when Putin is going to visit his troops to increase the motivation of his front line units
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On December 24 2025 22:29 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2025 05:36 Nebuchad wrote:
Hey zeo good that you're back to answering people. I'm sure it was an innocent mistake but the last time around you forgot to tell us why "putinism" wasn't fascism, I'm sure you have time to do it now given how long you just spent on that post Welp, I have some time again. No, it wasn't really an innocent mistake I believe more in the mantra 'let someone make a fool out of themselves instead of stooping to the level of legitimizing the fool'. Its worked out good in the past. The simple fact is that actual fascists, neo-nazis and ultra nationalists hate Putin with a passion, for as long as he has been in power in Russia. Not just islamophobe bigots like Navalny, but the whole spectre of far right in Russia, the ones gloating openly over writing poems about Hitler and translating the Christchurch shooters manifesto into Russian that are lauded on this forum as heroes. To these people having a swastika tattooed on your forehead is not a sign you are a fascist if you are against Putin so there's not much you can say on the matter.
Most of this response is just you crying about the forum, we don't need to answer it we can just ignore. The only claim that I see here is "There are far right people in Russia who are against Putin, therefore it makes Putin not a fascist". The "therefore" doesn't work there, that is not how we determine whether someone is a fascist or not, instead we look at their own beliefs and actions and whether they fit within a fascistic model. Using this method, we can also conclude that Obama isn't a communist even though there are a bunch of Americans who think he is. Simple.
Without ever forgetting that your claim was nonsensical as an argument against Putin being a fascist in the first place, we can go a little further and explore whether it is even true. First, you mentioned some far right people in Russia who are against Putin, but of course you failed to mention the much, much much larger number of far right people in Russia who are in favor of Putin. How many Z guys do you think there are for one of your hitlerites? The numbers aren't balanced, hopefully you can admit to that. Second, even among hitlerites you can find support for Putin, through something called "managed nationalism" that I encourage you to read about here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Managed_nationalism "However, while passing anti-extremist legislation, Putin's government first began developing the policy of managed nationalism. Walking Together, a pro-Putin youth movement, reached out to White Society-88 (ru), one of Russia's largest skinhead gangs, by recruiting from among the latter's members to bolster its own ranks." (and so on for 20 odd years)
Honestly the whole page is quite interesting and I would most likely not have read about it because I'm a normal person, I didn't need to know about any of those details to reach the correct conclusions. So I want to thank you for this.
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Russian Federation618 Posts
On December 15 2025 13:22 Manit0u wrote:
Russia is now facing another crisis at home. Nearly 7000 road transport firms are on the brink of bankruptcy. Between sanctions, fuel shortages and high interest rates their operating costs have increased by about 50% and the workload has also increased because they had to pick up stuff that was also previously transported by cargo trains (which are now transporting military equipment to the front).
This puts a really big strain on the civilian logistics sector. Obviously Moscow and St. Petersburg are prioritized for deliveries but this leaves a lot of the smaller regions with empty shelves and prices of basic goods are skyrocketing - stores are now putting butter in special locked containers, eggs, chicken and vegetables are often missing entirely, even potatoes become unaffordable and they're the basic survival food for the poor as prices rise faster than pay.
Increased demand leading to decrease of the market. Yeah, that's how capitalism works.
And now let's check the source for that.
https://www.forbes.ru/biznes/549789-pocti-7000-gruzoperevozcikov-v-rossii-razorilis-ili-gotovatsa-k-zakrytiu
Forbes is linking the original from Izvestia outlet.
https://iz.ru/1989212/iana-shturma/tyazhkie-gruzy-pochti-7-tys-perevozchikov-v-rossii-na-grani-bankrotstva
Yeah, 7000 (6700 to be precise) on the brink of bankruptcy... out of 458000. Not that damaging from such perspective,
Fuel shortages, inflation and interest rate indeed make the price go up, yes. But if there is a higher demand, it should simply drive the costs up, yes? Yes. But:
"— В мае 2025-го средний уровень ставок составлял 66 рублей за 1 км с НДС, тогда как расходы достигали 82 рублей"
In May 2025 average income was 66 rubles per 1 km, while expenses were 82 rubles per km.
So why market couldn't regulate price? Well:
"Влияние на ситуацию оказывает и рост собственных парков торговых сетей и маркетплейсов, которые доставляют отправления и грузы поставщиков своими силами"
"Situation is influenced by growing vehicle park of large retail store chains and marketplaces, who are delievering cargo from the suppliers directly themselves".
So demand isn't growing, it's decreasing. Russia in the last decade went through a concentration of market in food retail, so in terms of it most share on the market is taken by big federal players (Magnit, X5) or at least regional (as in North-Western region, encompassin everething from St. Petersburg to Naryan-Mar) level ones. Marketplace business is also concentrated in 2 big players (Ozon and Wildberries). So it's perfectly understandable that they are cutting middleman costs by managing their own delieveries. Same stuff I heard from relative working in the logistic company (delivery of frozen products, mainly icecream) - it's hard to complete with companies having full cycle from production to end-point delivery.
Also the main sanction is not Western, but actually Russian - increased recycling fee on imported vehicles intended to boost domestic sales (KamAZ and GAZ models, in case of delievery).
There is also changes to taxation and control system for the deliveries with intent to whitewash the market, as it is (especially in the south) is full of grey area work.
And yeah, truck drivers were indeed leaving to the front, but it's mostly for reasons other than monetary, because truck driving (especially long range one) is not a bad paying job in Russia.
There is also simply a decrease of demand due to the cooling of the economy
Won't be quoting whole article, but in short - transport companies bought a huge load of new trucks back in 2022, when they were still much cheaper, but were expected to become more expensive. There was also a higher demand, especially due to booming construction back in 2022-2023. Then construction shrunk due to the government stopping the financing of general mortgage exemptions. Hence lower demand in 2024, but transport companies still had their ton of trucks bought in 2022, so they had to load them somehow. So they started to drop prices. But then in 2025 large retailers had started to increase their own delievery park, so transport companies had to compete not only between themselves, but with retail directly as well. Add to that new regulation - and you get turmoil at the market.
But how big of a turmoil - per original Izvestia article, prognosis is that 7% of transport firm will close down in 2026. Is that number enough to cause any kind of food shortages in stores? Well, no.
Now about trains and their "increased military load"
https://www.rbc.ru/business/08/08/2025/689346ff9a7947baf89c01ee
"погрузка РЖД снижается в течение всего 2025 года, за семь месяцев сократившись на 7,3% год к году, до 646,6 млн т"
RZD delievery rate is decreasing through all 2025, reducing by 7,3% year to year, down to 646,6 mil ton.
So yes, economy is cooling down, demand is decreasing, market is adapting. Yes, it's affecting prices, but not in any kind of "crisis" way. And about:
On December 15 2025 13:22 Manit0u wrote:
Obviously Moscow and St. Petersburg are prioritized for deliveries but this leaves a lot of the smaller regions with empty shelves and prices of basic goods are skyrocketing - stores are now putting butter in special locked containers, eggs, chicken and vegetables are often missing entirely, even potatoes become unaffordable and they're the basic survival food for the poor as prices rise faster than pay.
Erm... no. Just no.
0,53 USD per 1 kg is unaffordable now?
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Finland964 Posts
I have so many questions, but let's start with these few. Are potatoes now more expensive or cheaper than they were before? What's the overall trend here? Do Russians really buy potatoes in USD? What are the regional variations? What's the normal monthly income looking like, and how has it changed with potato prices?
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EPT
