Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 82

On April 09 2022 00:51 warrior4093 wrote:


if you want to turn into a monster that your enemy is , then sure thats a great way,
i will remind you that despite 500k murders and nearly 200k rapes in Bangladesh (happened over a few months) , the surrendered 93000 soldiers of Pakistani military were safely returned to their home in 1971 , Bangladeshis chose not to abandon their humanity , they did not want to satisfy their enemy by turning in to the same monsters they were fighting .

being human in face of adversity and brutality is what makes us a better persona , a better human . once you commit murder and execution , the blood lust twists your mind and warps your sense of morality, there is a reason so many soldiers suffers from PTSD .

On April 09 2022 02:43 warding wrote:
Besides the question of it being 'understandable' or not, these war crimes by the Ukranian forces are big strategic mistakes. Ukraine's effort depends on Western support. That support is sensitive to these questions. I'm sure that Ukrainian leadership understands this.

On April 09 2022 02:43 warding wrote:
Besides the question of it being 'understandable' or not, these war crimes by the Ukranian forces are big strategic mistakes. Ukraine's effort depends on Western support. That support is sensitive to these questions. I'm sure that Ukrainian leadership understands this.

On April 09 2022 03:46 Ace Frehley wrote:
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/08/white-house-putin-paris-00024054

People in France, what are the chances of Le Pen winning and throwing a wrench in the sanctions?

Nato member states have agreed to supply new types of advanced weaponry to Ukraine, alliance representatives said, as Kyiv prepares for an offensive by Russia in the country’s east.

The pledge came after a plea from Ukraine’s foreign minister for western countries to move faster with supplies or risk seeing “many people die . . . because this help came too late”.

Six weeks since Vladimir Putin, Russia’s president, ordered the invasion of Ukraine, Moscow’s troops have largely withdrawn from territory north of Kyiv after failing to seize the capital but are regrouping and rearming ahead of an attempt to advance in the eastern Donbas region, Ukrainian and western officials said.

That has sparked demands from Kyiv for western countries to supply more heavy weapons, armour and more advanced systems. Ukraine’s foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba said he would use a Nato meeting in Brussels to ask for aircraft, missiles, armoured vehicles and heavy air defence systems, among others.

Liz Truss, UK foreign secretary, told reporters after the meeting that member states had backed giving more weapons.

“There was support for countries to supply new and heavier equipment to Ukraine, so that they can respond to these new threats from Russia,” she said. “And we agreed to help Ukrainian forces move from their Soviet-era equipment to Nato standard equipment, on a bilateral basis.”

Antony Blinken, US secretary of state, said Washington was looking at sending “new systems” to Ukraine.

“We are not going to let anything stand in the way of getting Ukrainians what they need,” he said. “We are looking across the board right now, not only at what we have provided . . . [but] whether there are additional systems that would make a difference.”

The promise of more military aid came as Dmitry Peskov, Putin’s spokesperson, admitted Russia had suffered “significant losses of troops” during its invasion of Ukraine, which he described as “a huge tragedy for us”.

Peskov said Russia had withdrawn from Kyiv and Chernihiv in central Ukraine last week as a “goodwill act to lift tension from those regions and show Russia is really ready to create comfortable conditions to continue negotiations”. But fighting would continue in the Donbas, he added.

Following the killing of hundreds of civilians in Bucha and other Kyiv suburbs, Volodymyr Zelensky, Ukraine’s president, warned that elsewhere in the country Russia would seek to portray people killed by its forces as victims of Ukrainian troops.

“To do this, the occupiers collect corpses on the streets, take them out and can use them elsewhere in accordance with the elaborated propaganda scenarios,” he said in a video address late on Thursday.

Nato member countries have supplied Ukraine with anti-tank missiles, drones and other defensive weaponry before and during the war. However, they have declined to supply other classes of weapons or impose a no-fly zone, as Kyiv has demanded, over the risk of engaging Russia in a wider war.

Kuleba said afterwards he was “cautiously optimistic” that alliance states would meet his demand but warned that delays would result in more deaths.

“Either you help us now, and I am speaking about days . . . or your help will come too late,” Kuleba said. “Many people will die . . . exactly because this help came too late.”

He added: “I was very specific about the requests and the timeline that they should be accommodated. I will be looking forward to the follow-up from allies.”

Ukraine has warned that Russia was preparing a renewed offensive in the Donbas aimed at seizing territory in the two administrative regions of Luhansk and Donetsk, which separatists have partially occupied since a Moscow-backed uprising in 2014.

Ukraine’s military authorities on Wednesday called on residents living in the regions to leave “while they still had the chance”.

Jens Stoltenberg, Nato’s secretary-general, said allies had agreed to “further strengthen” support for Ukraine immediately and in the “medium and long term”.

“It was a clear message from the meeting today that allies should do more and are ready to do more to supply more equipment. They realise and recognise the urgency,” he said.

Meanwhile, the UN General Assembly on Thursday voted to suspend Russia from the Geneva-based Human Rights Council, an international rebuke to Moscow over the invasion of Ukraine and alleged atrocities.

Ninety-three UN members approved Russia’s suspension — the first imposed on any permanent member of the UN Security Council.

However, 24 UN members, including China, Iran, Bolivia and Kazakhstan, voted against Russia’s suspension. Another 58 countries abstained, including India, Indonesia and Egypt, showing that a wide range of nations have sided with Moscow or sought to remain neutral in the conflict.

On April 09 2022 02:16 Mirelle wrote:
>>I find "but the Russians will use it for propaganda" kind of pointless when Russia has no problem lying and fabricating their own 'evidence' if they feel the need.

No, you underestimate them. All this insane shit is because russian secret services are extremely good at manipulating public views - and sometimmes they would kill hundreds of their own people just to frame their enemy.
It is increadibly difficult to argue with people who say something like "so do you approve that Ukrainian nationalist killed our people in Odessa?" At the same time many of propaganda things are laughing stock here, like an interview with a Ukrainian fugitive who told that "our nazis crucified a 6-year old boy at a center square of Slavyansk"

On April 09 2022 02:43 warding wrote:
Besides the question of it being 'understandable' or not, these war crimes by the Ukranian forces are big strategic mistakes. Ukraine's effort depends on Western support. That support is sensitive to these questions. I'm sure that Ukrainian leadership understands this.

On April 09 2022 04:18 GreenHorizons wrote:

I don't know how sensitive Western support is but this has been a known issue for years (Azov and Aidar battalions being some of the better known examples). There was hardly a peep when the Ukrainian National Guard tweeted out a neo nazi Azov soldier smearing pig fat on bullets meant for Muslim fighters or when the Ukrainian newscaster was quoting Adolf Eichmann.

On April 09 2022 02:16 Mirelle wrote:
>>I find "but the Russians will use it for propaganda" kind of pointless when Russia has no problem lying and fabricating their own 'evidence' if they feel the need.

No, you underestimate them. All this insane shit is because russian secret services are extremely good at manipulating public views - and sometimmes they would kill hundreds of their own people just to frame their enemy.
It is increadibly difficult to argue with people who say something like "so do you approve that Ukrainian nationalist killed our people in Odessa?" At the same time many of propaganda things are laughing stock here, like an interview with a Ukrainian fugitive who told that "our nazis crucified a 6-year old boy at a center square of Slavyansk"

April 8 (Reuters) - The European Union on Friday formally adopted new sweeping sanctions against Russia, including bans on the import of coal, wood, chemicals and other products which were estimated to slash at least 10% of total imports from Moscow.

The measures also prevent many Russian vessels and trucks from accessing the EU, further crippling trade, and will ban all transactions with four Russian banks, including VTB. (VTBR.MM)

The ban on coal, the first the EU has so far imposed on any energy import from Russia, will be fully effective from the second week of August. No new contracts can be signed from Friday.

Existing contracts will have to be terminated by the second week of August, meaning that Russia can continue to receive payments from the EU on coal exports until then. read more

"These latest sanctions were adopted following the atrocities committed by Russian armed forces in Bucha and other places under Russian occupation," EU's top diplomat, Josep Borrell, said in a statement.

The Kremlin has said that Western allegations Russian forces committed war crimes by executing civilians in the Ukrainian town of Bucha were a "monstrous forgery" aimed at denigrating the Russian army.

The coal ban alone is estimated by the Commission to be worth 8 billion euros a year in lost revenues for Russia. That is twice as big as the EU Commission's head Ursula von der Leyen had said on Tuesday read more .

Oil and gas imports from Russia, which remain so far untouched, are together worth about 100 billion euros a year.

In addition to coal, the new EU sanctions ban imports from Russia of many other commodities and products, including wood, rubber, cement, fertilisers, high-end seafood, such as caviar, and spirits, such as vodka, for a total additional value estimated in 5.5 billion euros ($5.9 billion) a year.

An EU official said that the combined import bans were worth at least 10% of what the EU buys from Russia in a year. That comes in addition to previous import bans that hit the steel and iron sectors. In total, up to a fifth of all imports from Russia by value are expected to be cut because of direct sanctions.

The EU also restricted export to Russia of a number of products, including jet fuel, quantum computers, advanced semiconductors, high-end electronics, software, sensitive machinery and transportation equipment, for a total value of 10 billion euros a year.

Adding previous export bans on other technology, the EU has blocked so far about a quarter of its total exports by value to Russia, one EU official said.

On April 09 2022 04:18 GreenHorizons wrote:

I don't know how sensitive Western support is but this has been a known issue for years (Azov and Aidar battalions being some of the better known examples). There was hardly a peep when the Ukrainian National Guard tweeted out a neo nazi Azov soldier smearing pig fat on bullets meant for Muslim fighters or when the Ukrainian newscaster was quoting Adolf Eichmann.

On April 09 2022 10:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I am sorry if this sounds harsh but are people in Russia really that idiotic they believe whatever their great leader says and that this is still like 13th century?? I mean, i wouldn't think people at this time are that easily manipulated regardless of where they live but i guess i am just too naive..