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DropBear
Australia4294 Posts
On April 06 2022 00:58 Sermokala wrote: These are the people India Brazil and China want to do business as normal with. None of these countries have any reason to love Europeans. Hundreds of years of colonialism saw to that. These countries are probably happy to be dealing with someone on an even footing for a change. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On April 06 2022 00:58 Sermokala wrote: Bringing in the chechens brought this to happen. It is hard to have any sympathy or understanding of anyone supporting Russia after this. These are the people India Brazil and China want to do business as normal with. It's actually magnitudes worse. They found mass graves and random people who got killed on a whim of a tank driver. The mass graves indicates that the orders were coming from high above, as a simple captain doesn't have the authority required (especially in the russian army). The random bodies indicate how the average russian soldier feels about ukr. It's an atrocity committed by the entire russian machine, from the very top to the very bottom. Their defense is the same as in Syria, it's so obvious that anyone repeating it seriously should be branded as a russian asset. I dont even want to start thinking about the horrors we will discover in Mariupol | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3709 Posts
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Silvanel
Poland4692 Posts
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2520 Posts
The small ones reportedly cost 6000$. No one seems to know the price of the large ones but let's say it's actually 10000$ for a small one and 150000$ for a large one. 350$ million a month would give you 2000 flying javelins with much longer range than artillery as well as 5000 smaller drones. If Russia can't deal with them efficiently their dreams of a frozen conflict is fucked. Also logistics are a piece of cake since they are single use and apparently they are more or less point and click. Fuck sanctions. Just put a 10 % drone tax on Russian fuels sold in Europe instead and let that pay for it. I guess production would be an issue but I heard the US has this war production act which has historically been really effective. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13750 Posts
On April 06 2022 01:15 DropBear wrote: None of these countries have any reason to love Europeans. Hundreds of years of colonialism saw to that. These countries are probably happy to be dealing with someone on an even footing for a change. They don't have a reason to love euros but they have to have a reason to not like war crimes. | ||
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DropBear
Australia4294 Posts
On April 06 2022 02:05 Sermokala wrote: They don't have a reason to love euros but they have to have a reason to not like war crimes. China only got Hong Kong back in 1997, which was taken from them during the Century of Humilation. India's independence and partition was 1948, which followed long and brutal colonial rule. Slavery in Brazil only ended in the 1880s and many modern Brazilians are descended from slaves to European masters. All of this stuff was fairly recent. Currently, Russia is saying "The West and Europe are evil and caused this war in Ukraine. Ukraine is trying to join them and is one of them. Also let's be friends and trade more." I'm not saying it's right but it's pretty easy to see why I, B and C might be be more willing than others to believe Russia's narrative and/or overlook bad things being done to Ukraine when Ukraine's allies wiped their dicks all over them over a long period of time. Especially when there are trade advantages involved. | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9017 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32737 Posts
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Silvanel
Poland4692 Posts
On April 06 2022 02:43 DropBear wrote: China only got Hong Kong back in 1997, which was taken from them during the Century of Humilation. India's independence and partition was 1948, which followed long and brutal colonial rule. Slavery in Brazil only ended in the 1880s and many modern Brazilians are descended from slaves to European masters. All of this stuff was fairly recent. Currently, Russia is saying "The West and Europe are evil and caused this war in Ukraine. Ukraine is trying to join them and is one of them. Also let's be friends and trade more." I'm not saying it's right but it's pretty easy to see why I, B and C might be be more willing than others to believe Russia's narrative and/or overlook bad things being done to Ukraine when Ukraine's allies wiped their dicks all over them over a long period of time. Especially when there are trade advantages involved. WTF? Russia is one of the most if not the most Imperialist country in Europe. How do You think it got so big? By being nice to everyone around them? They even currently hold land that China considers their own. During Cold War there were skirmishes on China/USSR border with hundreds of dead. This is a pragmatist alliance, it has nothing to do with being nice to each other during history. Chinese officials certainly do not believe Russia is right here, it just suits their (Imperialist) interests to support Russia. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On April 06 2022 02:43 DropBear wrote: China only got Hong Kong back in 1997, which was taken from them during the Century of Humilation. India's independence and partition was 1948, which followed long and brutal colonial rule. Slavery in Brazil only ended in the 1880s and many modern Brazilians are descended from slaves to European masters. All of this stuff was fairly recent. Currently, Russia is saying "The West and Europe are evil and caused this war in Ukraine. Ukraine is trying to join them and is one of them. Also let's be friends and trade more." I'm not saying it's right but it's pretty easy to see why I, B and C might be be more willing than others to believe Russia's narrative and/or overlook bad things being done to Ukraine when Ukraine's allies wiped their dicks all over them over a long period of time. Especially when there are trade advantages involved. It's more of the case that they are not threatened by Russia, ergo from their point of view have no reason to care. Russia is not going to invade China, or cross the Atlantic to invade Brazil. Nothing to do with colonial history. Brazil in particular is completely without any geopolitical adversary. It's hard to see why Brazil or India or China would see Ukraine in a negative light, itself a victim of Russian Imperialism, simply because it happens that Britain or Portugal happens to be one of the many European countries which have enforced economic sanctions of Russia. It's not as if any of these countries have a bad relationship with UK or Portugal. India for instance happily buys billions of US dollars worth of military equipment from UK. Interestingly both China and India also buy Russian military equipment, in particular China appears to have interest in Russian turbine technology and India in Russian missile technology. Both I assume will be happy to buy Russian miltech and oil on the cheap. Besides, the idea that Chinese, Indian and Brazilian leadership believes Russian propaganda aimed at the Russian domestic audience, and are acting upon it is ridiculous. No political leadership from any country beleives the rubbish Russia spews, least of all the Russian political leadership themselves. | ||
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Mirelle
Russian Federation20 Posts
If you're interested - i'd be glad to answer any questions; I'm from Moscow | ||
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Xamo
Spain874 Posts
On April 06 2022 06:46 Mirelle wrote: China gets Russian gas and oil almost for free. Also there is strong evidence that they were considering the war as a win-win situation at the beginning: if Russia won it would allow them to retake Taiwan, and otherwise that would put an instability in Europe - so there would be smaller pressure on China from the West. The option of Russia failing badly was not even considered. If you're interested - i'd be glad to answer any questions; I'm from Moscow The option of Russia falling badly was surely considered, and is probably the best outcome for China. Now China is the only real support for Rusia. Which means that Rusia is a toy in China's hand, Putin is pretty much forced to do whatever China wants him to do. | ||
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Mirelle
Russian Federation20 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7811 Posts
On April 06 2022 00:58 Sermokala wrote: Bringing in the chechens brought this to happen. It is hard to have any sympathy or understanding of anyone supporting Russia after this. These are the people India Brazil and China want to do business as normal with. When it comes to Brazil, it’s hard to measure how much latin america hates and distrusts the US. All of my argentinian friends have a weirdly « two sided » view of the conflict because in their views the US are always the ultimate baddies. Add to that that the country is governed by a far right president with authoritarian tendencies that loves the illiberal tendencies championed by Putin, and you get a country that is unlikely to cut all ties with Russia over that conflict. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13750 Posts
On April 06 2022 06:46 Mirelle wrote: China gets Russian gas and oil almost for free. Also there is strong evidence that they were considering the war as a win-win situation at the beginning: if Russia won it would allow them to retake Taiwan, and otherwise that would put an instability in Europe - so there would be smaller pressure on China from the West. The option of Russia failing badly was not even considered. If you're interested - i'd be glad to answer any questions; I'm from Moscow What do people think an end to the war is going to look like? Is there the idea that the sanctions are going to be lifted and a return to normal is coming or that things are just going to go along like this with putin in power for a few more years? | ||
KwarK
United States41989 Posts
On April 06 2022 06:46 Mirelle wrote: China gets Russian gas and oil almost for free. Also there is strong evidence that they were considering the war as a win-win situation at the beginning: if Russia won it would allow them to retake Taiwan, and otherwise that would put an instability in Europe - so there would be smaller pressure on China from the West. The option of Russia failing badly was not even considered. If you're interested - i'd be glad to answer any questions; I'm from Moscow Does China have a plan for getting the oil from a pipeline that doesn’t go to China? | ||
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[JXSA].Zergling
China186 Posts
China is still a developing country, and the price of gasoline is 10 RMB per liter。 All Chinese people think that the price of gasoline is outrageous。 Because of COVID-19, many people in China are also having a hard time。 Most Chinese people don't pay attention to the war in Ukraine. They just want to live a better life。 | ||
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Mirelle
Russian Federation20 Posts
Didn't understand you. There is a pipeline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_of_Siberia >>What do people think an end to the war is going to look like? Is there the idea that the sanctions are going to be lifted and a return to normal is coming or that things are just going to go along like this with putin in power for a few more years? Difficult question. I'd say that there is no common understanding of what's going on at all. Perhaps almost noone here hopes for a quick lift of sanctions, but their effect for now is almost invisible: the government uses a lot of resources to make an image as nothing bad is happening: even the exchange rate and stock market has returned close to pre-war levels (far from the peak values though). Looks like in smaller cities propaganda works well, and there are lots of pro-war people there; in Moscow I've seen only 1 car with a Z-mark during the whole month (and i've also seen quite a few videos with people damaging such cars). I personally think that the end of war strongly depends on the next two weeks: its very likely that Russian troops will attempt to advance in the eastern regions of Ukraine. If they succeed - there is possibility of a peace treaty that will look like an acceptable result to the "war party" - with a stalemate, and putin remaining in power for indefinitely long. If the Ukrainians keep advansing, there perhaps will be a lot of turbulence, as Putin is unable to admit defeat >>My God, China's oil is almost the most expensive in the world,The Chinese government bought Russian oil at a high price。 China is still a developing country, and the price of gasoline is 10 RMB per liter。 The contract details are not public. I've heard my version from a person, closely related to American intelligence (Yu. Shvets, has a youtube channel) | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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