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On August 19 2024 23:57 sertas wrote: Obviously, russia expected Zelensky to flee the country and russia to be seen as "liberators" and that even if ukraine fights they are completely outmatched.
do you have any factual evidence of these expectation? Not an opinion of some propagandist, but facts.
Russians packed parade uniforms, made restaurant reservations, and forgot to put their economy on a war footing. They either didn’t expect a serious fight or they’re very bad at planning. In fairness Crimea wasn’t a serious fight so it’s not unreasonable to assume the rest might fold.
I think it’s not in dispute that where we’re at now certainly wasn’t the original plan when they were sending the VDV into Hostomel. Any argument against poor Russian planning has to explain how the plan involved the collapse of Russian lines during the Kharkiv counteroffensive and huge amounts of Russian hardware being captured (Russia is still by far the largest donor of tanks to Ukraine).
I think it’s less embarrassing for Russia to have had a shit plan than for this to be the plan.
A slight off-topic but still, since you continue to follow most of my posts: Several times in my carieer I encountered people, who decided for themselves that they are intellectually not a match for being top-tier, and chose a path of a 'yes-man' of some sort. I have the same feeling of deliberate intellectual self-castration in each of your post - it is very clear that you understand how dumb are the things that you write, but you have to continue, - and this cognitive dissonance is destroying you. It is quite clear that you are have a significant stake in the ongoing events, but you side is bound to lose, and your skills would be much less valued afterwards. It is never too late to change this
That is also the exact same path conspiracy theorists and contrarians tread. Can’t compete in the world of discussing and disseminating fact? Well anyone can be the master in the domain of alternative facts.
Characterised by regurgitating propaganda, just from a different source, being unable to actually discuss challenges to a worldview beyond ‘well you’re brainwashed’ etc etc
On August 19 2024 23:57 sertas wrote: Obviously, russia expected Zelensky to flee the country and russia to be seen as "liberators" and that even if ukraine fights they are completely outmatched.
do you have any factual evidence of these expectation? Not an opinion of some propagandist, but facts.
Russians packed parade uniforms, made restaurant reservations, and forgot to put their economy on a war footing. They either didn’t expect a serious fight or they’re very bad at planning. In fairness Crimea wasn’t a serious fight so it’s not unreasonable to assume the rest might fold.
I think it’s not in dispute that where we’re at now certainly wasn’t the original plan when they were sending the VDV into Hostomel. Any argument against poor Russian planning has to explain how the plan involved the collapse of Russian lines during the Kharkiv counteroffensive and huge amounts of Russian hardware being captured (Russia is still by far the largest donor of tanks to Ukraine).
I think it’s less embarrassing for Russia to have had a shit plan than for this to be the plan.
A slight off-topic but still, since you continue to follow most of my posts: Several times in my carieer I encountered people, who decided for themselves that they are intellectually not a match for being top-tier, and chose a path of a 'yes-man' of some sort. I have the same feeling of deliberate intellectual self-castration in each of your post - it is very clear that you understand how dumb are the things that you write, but you have to continue, - and this cognitive dissonance is destroying you. It is quite clear that you are have a significant stake in the ongoing events, but you side is bound to lose, and your skills would be much less valued afterwards. It is never too late to change this
That is also the exact same path conspiracy theorists and contrarians tread. Can’t compete in the world of discussing and disseminating fact? Well anyone can be the master in the domain of alternative facts.
Characterised by regurgitating propaganda, just from a different source, being unable to actually discuss challenges to a worldview beyond ‘well you’re brainwashed’ etc etc
-why do you think so? I've started this subthread with @maybenexttime with an open notion that any emotional one-sided stories are propaganda - and I'm generally not into this sort of stuff as you may notice. My one and only reason of being here is procrastination - so any topic would be fine, and challenges to a worldview is a perfect one - but perhaps I have missed an open end of a discussion
Btw, I disagree on the conspiracy theorist part - because often it is exactly a challenge to a common worldview
On August 20 2024 06:07 maybenexttime wrote: Again, zero evidence that it was a drone.
Hundred percent a UFO, case solved, bravo! Please help me solve another one: some people say that in this video AFU soldiers kill with a drone grenade two Volchansk civilians, who decided to try to cross the frontline and go to Russian positions: https://t.me/mash/56772
And I'd like to hear your opinion on the Chernobyl case too.
upd: Why are you so angry? All I want from you is to put at least a close level of scrutiny and evidence requirements. If a video of a FPV drone kill of a civilian is not enough, why don't you be consistent, and check if these POWs could be some BDSM people with strange fetishes like you? Half of your posts are about torture, rape etc after all.
On August 20 2024 06:07 maybenexttime wrote: Again, zero evidence that it was a drone.
Hundred percent a UFO, case solved, bravo! Please help me solve another one: some people say that in this video AFU soldiers kill with a drone grenade two Volchansk civilians, who decided to try to cross the frontline and go to Russian positions: https://t.me/mash/56772
And I'd like to hear your opinion on the Chernobyl case too.
upd: Why are you so angry? All I want from you is to put at least a close level of scrutiny and evidence requirements. If a video of a FPV drone kill of a civilian is not enough, why don't you be consistent, and check if these POWs could be some BDSM people with strange fetishes like you? Half of your posts are about torture, rape etc after all.
You genuinely deserve to burn in hell.
Deep down he is a coward trying to hide the fact he is not ready too defend his country that is currently getting invaded. Hence the denial that the country is invaded.
I don't know how he advised conscription, maybe he was too delusional for the army. Well, at least he can think he is doing his part in the Russian war against the truth.
He has become a mad dog unable too read anything people write to him. Calling everyone uneducated victims of propaganda.
On August 20 2024 00:28 maybenexttime wrote: Fight for their freedom? Do you have anything to say about the rampant torture men in Donbas are subjected to to force them to fight?
When talking about things from ten years ago, bringing up imaginary things from the present is not an argument.
On August 19 2024 19:55 KwarK wrote: Russia’s Duma passed a law in 2023 that recognized the Russian proxies in the Donbas as Russian soldiers for the purpose of giving state veteran benefits.
Russia and Putin specifically have also ceased pretending that the special forces deployed to Crimea weren’t army regulars.
So we have a situation in which eastern Ukraine is suddenly overrun by Russians wearing Russian uniforms, holding Russian weapons, and commanded by Russian officers. The Kremlin maintained that they were enthusiastic tourists who probably got their stuff at a military surplus store. After achieving their goals in Crimea the Kremlin backtracked on its prior denials and admitted that the little green men in Crimea were actually regular Russian military. But we’re supposed to believe the ones in the Donbas were not? Despite their access to Russian anti aircraft missile batteries? And despite being Russians in official Russian uniforms? And despite it counting for Russian army combat veteran status?
I’d sooner believe in the independent indigenous Kursk People’s Republic forces.
The year two thousand and twenty three. One year after their state merged with Russia a Law being passed treating them as Russian citizens. Well I'll be. Who could have imagined that? Thats wild.
While the 2014 coup led to the troubles in both Crimea and the Donbass their routes in dealing with the new regime and fallout were completely different. While the Crimeas was welcomed with open arms like a favorite son returning home the Russians and Ukrainians living in the Donbass had to fight tooth and nail for every inch of their freedom, the people took back their lands, it might have only been half of Lugansk and Donetsk regions but it was their half and they were safe from the post-Maidan governments in Kiev.
While you might have gaslighted yourself into believing whatever the spin of the day is - people were there in 2014, reporters were there, the same people are still there some living normal lives, others fighting for their land. That said I can recommend the documentary series Roses Have Thorns, a 17 part series, each part 1-2 hours long with no commentary just a collection of western and Russian/Ukrainian news archives of the period chronicling events as they happened.
Above is part 2 following the Anti-Maidan with later parts covering the Donbass. edit: Most important for the subject at hand are the two parts regarding the siege of Slavyansk. Count the number of 'Russian soldiers'
There is also this 5 hour documentary of the same format:
From the 30min mark they start covering the post-Maidan fallout up until the downing of MH17.
Lol Lmao
Which part of the 25 hours of media footage are you on by now? Did you find the Russian soldiers in the Donbass? Maybe they'll come to you in a dream like your other sources.
An interesting read about the life of a conscript in Russia and how they're being used in Kursk. Peak russkiy mir. ;-)
And to think the NATO trained troops, using NATO intel and NATO weapons are bogged down, mass surrendering and walking into kill zones against these 'untrained conscripts' and local militias. Videos of piles of dead Ukrainians (and foreign mercs) every day, videos of Ukrainian looters getting captured, videos of Ukrainian troops surrendering by the dozen every day - to these guys.
Well if random X user writing fanfiction says so keep doubling down and forcing more of them over the border. Anything that gets this over with sooner is fine by me
On August 20 2024 00:28 maybenexttime wrote: Fight for their freedom? Do you have anything to say about the rampant torture men in Donbas are subjected to to force them to fight?
When talking about things from ten years ago, bringing up imaginary things from the present is not an argument.
On August 19 2024 19:55 KwarK wrote: Russia’s Duma passed a law in 2023 that recognized the Russian proxies in the Donbas as Russian soldiers for the purpose of giving state veteran benefits.
Russia and Putin specifically have also ceased pretending that the special forces deployed to Crimea weren’t army regulars.
So we have a situation in which eastern Ukraine is suddenly overrun by Russians wearing Russian uniforms, holding Russian weapons, and commanded by Russian officers. The Kremlin maintained that they were enthusiastic tourists who probably got their stuff at a military surplus store. After achieving their goals in Crimea the Kremlin backtracked on its prior denials and admitted that the little green men in Crimea were actually regular Russian military. But we’re supposed to believe the ones in the Donbas were not? Despite their access to Russian anti aircraft missile batteries? And despite being Russians in official Russian uniforms? And despite it counting for Russian army combat veteran status?
I’d sooner believe in the independent indigenous Kursk People’s Republic forces.
You live in an alternative reality but yeah, your bubble looks so cool, I avoid as much as I can piles of dead soldiers of any nation, but if it is you kink... The year two thousand and twenty three. One year after their state merged with Russia a Law being passed treating them as Russian citizens. Well I'll be. Who could have imagined that? Thats wild.
While the 2014 coup led to the troubles in both Crimea and the Donbass their routes in dealing with the new regime and fallout were completely different. While the Crimeas was welcomed with open arms like a favorite son returning home the Russians and Ukrainians living in the Donbass had to fight tooth and nail for every inch of their freedom, the people took back their lands, it might have only been half of Lugansk and Donetsk regions but it was their half and they were safe from the post-Maidan governments in Kiev.
While you might have gaslighted yourself into believing whatever the spin of the day is - people were there in 2014, reporters were there, the same people are still there some living normal lives, others fighting for their land. That said I can recommend the documentary series Roses Have Thorns, a 17 part series, each part 1-2 hours long with no commentary just a collection of western and Russian/Ukrainian news archives of the period chronicling events as they happened.
Above is part 2 following the Anti-Maidan with later parts covering the Donbass. edit: Most important for the subject at hand are the two parts regarding the siege of Slavyansk. Count the number of 'Russian soldiers'
There is also this 5 hour documentary of the same format:
From the 30min mark they start covering the post-Maidan fallout up until the downing of MH17.
Lol Lmao
Which part of the 25 hours of media footage are you on by now? Did you find the Russian soldiers in the Donbass? Maybe they'll come to you in a dream like your other sources.
An interesting read about the life of a conscript in Russia and how they're being used in Kursk. Peak russkiy mir. ;-)
And to think the NATO trained troops, using NATO intel and NATO weapons are bogged down, mass surrendering and walking into kill zones against these 'untrained conscripts' and local militias. Videos of piles of dead Ukrainians (and foreign mercs) every day, videos of Ukrainian looters getting captured, videos of Ukrainian troops surrendering by the dozen every day - to these guys.
Well if random X user writing fanfiction says so keep doubling down and forcing more of them over the border. Anything that gets this over with sooner is fine by me
On August 20 2024 06:07 maybenexttime wrote: Again, zero evidence that it was a drone.
Hundred percent a UFO, case solved, bravo! Please help me solve another one: some people say that in this video AFU soldiers kill with a drone grenade two Volchansk civilians, who decided to try to cross the frontline and go to Russian positions: https://t.me/mash/56772
And I'd like to hear your opinion on the Chernobyl case too.
upd: Why are you so angry? All I want from you is to put at least a close level of scrutiny and evidence requirements. If a video of a FPV drone kill of a civilian is not enough, why don't you be consistent, and check if these POWs could be some BDSM people with strange fetishes like you? Half of your posts are about torture, rape etc after all.
You genuinely deserve to burn in hell.
Deep down he is a coward trying to hide the fact he is not ready too defend his country that is currently getting invaded. Hence the denial that the country is invaded.
I don't know how he advised conscription, maybe he was too delusional for the army. Well, at least he can think he is doing his part in the Russian war against the truth.
He has become a mad dog unable too read anything people write to him. Calling everyone uneducated victims of propaganda.
This justs shows how warped your reality is. By slowly gobbling biased news in your media-bubble you got accustomed that Ukraine at least stands a high moral ground in this conflict. So when I offer either to get equal attention on both sides crimes, or (better) ignore all the emotional propaganda news, because it is a weapon itself - you throw a tantrum.
If you've been reading the recent thread carefully, you could see several glimpses on some more advanced propaganda techniques: for example, from @sertas post it is clear that his belief of a "humiliating defeat" at Kiev in 2022 is based on "self-admittance": at the start of the war in the western media there's been a lot of news of high-ranking FSB officers arrested, presumably, due to "expectations that Ukrainians would welcome Russian troops failing miserably in Kremlin". 2.5 years later there is no single confirmation of these arrests, and you can easily find news events of 2023 with Sergey Beseda, who is the director of the related FSB department (and was the first one to get "presumably arrested")
I despise social engineering of such sort, because it dumbs down - making brilliant people at least mediocre, and those who have been not so smart in the first place become a literal human shaped animal, with zero logics, spewing hatred, and who are perfectly manipulable by its masters. Seeing several examplars of the latter type here in a SC2 forum - which is supposed to be one of the most intellectual games - makes me wonder about what's going on in their countries, because a society with a ~5% share of people of such type becomes an exact copy of 2010+ Ukraine.
On August 20 2024 11:01 Luolis wrote: You genuinely deserve to burn in hell. >>pro cheese man
Thank you for fulfilling a minor selfish desire of mine of lighting a fire under some cheeser's ass.
On August 20 2024 06:07 maybenexttime wrote: Again, zero evidence that it was a drone.
Hundred percent a UFO, case solved, bravo! Please help me solve another one: some people say that in this video AFU soldiers kill with a drone grenade two Volchansk civilians, who decided to try to cross the frontline and go to Russian positions: https://t.me/mash/56772
And I'd like to hear your opinion on the Chernobyl case too.
upd: Why are you so angry? All I want from you is to put at least a close level of scrutiny and evidence requirements. If a video of a FPV drone kill of a civilian is not enough, why don't you be consistent, and check if these POWs could be some BDSM people with strange fetishes like you? Half of your posts are about torture, rape etc after all.
You genuinely deserve to burn in hell.
Deep down he is a coward trying to hide the fact he is not ready too defend his country that is currently getting invaded. Hence the denial that the country is invaded.
I don't know how he advised conscription, maybe he was too delusional for the army. Well, at least he can think he is doing his part in the Russian war against the truth.
He has become a mad dog unable too read anything people write to him. Calling everyone uneducated victims of propaganda.
This justs shows how warped your reality is. By slowling gobbling biased news in your media-bubble you got accustomed that Ukraine at least stands a high moral ground in this conflict. So when I offer either to get equal attention on both sides crimes, or (better) ignore all the emotional propaganda news, because it is a weapon itself - you throw a tantrum.
If you've been reading the recent thread carefully, you could see several glimpses on some more advanced propaganda techniques: for example, from @sertas post it is clear that his belief of a "humiliating defeat" at Kiev in 2022 is based on "self-admittance": at the start of the war in the western media there's been a lot of news of high-ranking FSB officers arrested, presumably, due to "expectations that Ukrainians would welcome Russian troops failing miserably in Kremlin". 2.5 years later there is no single confirmation of these arrests, and you can easily find news events of 2023 with Sergey Beseda, who is the director of the related FSB department (and was the first one to get "presumably arrested")
I despise social engineering of such sort, because it dumbs down - making brilliant people at least mediocre, and those who have been not so smart in the first place become a literal human shaped animal, with zero logics, spewing hatred, and who are perfectly manipulable by its masters. Seeing several examplars of the latter type here in a SC2 forum - which is supposed to be one of the most intellectual games - makes me wonder about what's going on in their countries, because a society with a ~5% share of people of such type becomes an exact copy of 2010+ Ukraine.
On August 20 2024 11:01 Luolis wrote: You genuinely deserve to burn in hell. >>pro cheese man
Thank you for fulfilling a minor selfish desire of mine of lighting a fire under some cheeser's ass.
My reality cannot be unwarped as you did not answered how you avoid being drafted? How you just don't feel like going defend your country... You are a weekend starcraft forum nationalist. Lucky for Ukraine, I guess, that smart people are arguing on internet and not going to the army organise things! How unlucky it seems to me, that the smart guy who knows everything is stuck here arguing and those that can't use internet push those that can't read to the front line.
My point is that you are warping my reality. 1. unable to read and answer people's question. 2. unable to back why people are dying in a useless war. People like you blaming Ukraine for the situation they are in, are exactly the reason this war exists.
On August 20 2024 06:07 maybenexttime wrote: Again, zero evidence that it was a drone.
Hundred percent a UFO, case solved, bravo! Please help me solve another one: some people say that in this video AFU soldiers kill with a drone grenade two Volchansk civilians, who decided to try to cross the frontline and go to Russian positions: https://t.me/mash/56772
And I'd like to hear your opinion on the Chernobyl case too.
upd: Why are you so angry? All I want from you is to put at least a close level of scrutiny and evidence requirements. If a video of a FPV drone kill of a civilian is not enough, why don't you be consistent, and check if these POWs could be some BDSM people with strange fetishes like you? Half of your posts are about torture, rape etc after all.
You genuinely deserve to burn in hell.
Deep down he is a coward trying to hide the fact he is not ready too defend his country that is currently getting invaded. Hence the denial that the country is invaded.
I don't know how he advised conscription, maybe he was too delusional for the army. Well, at least he can think he is doing his part in the Russian war against the truth.
He has become a mad dog unable too read anything people write to him. Calling everyone uneducated victims of propaganda.
This justs shows how warped your reality is. By slowling gobbling biased news in your media-bubble you got accustomed that Ukraine at least stands a high moral ground in this conflict. So when I offer either to get equal attention on both sides crimes, or (better) ignore all the emotional propaganda news, because it is a weapon itself - you throw a tantrum.
If you've been reading the recent thread carefully, you could see several glimpses on some more advanced propaganda techniques: for example, from @sertas post it is clear that his belief of a "humiliating defeat" at Kiev in 2022 is based on "self-admittance": at the start of the war in the western media there's been a lot of news of high-ranking FSB officers arrested, presumably, due to "expectations that Ukrainians would welcome Russian troops failing miserably in Kremlin". 2.5 years later there is no single confirmation of these arrests, and you can easily find news events of 2023 with Sergey Beseda, who is the director of the related FSB department (and was the first one to get "presumably arrested")
I despise social engineering of such sort, because it dumbs down - making brilliant people at least mediocre, and those who have been not so smart in the first place become a literal human shaped animal, with zero logics, spewing hatred, and who are perfectly manipulable by its masters. Seeing several examplars of the latter type here in a SC2 forum - which is supposed to be one of the most intellectual games - makes me wonder about what's going on in their countries, because a society with a ~5% share of people of such type becomes an exact copy of 2010+ Ukraine.
On August 20 2024 11:01 Luolis wrote: You genuinely deserve to burn in hell. >>pro cheese man
Thank you for fulfilling a minor selfish desire of mine of lighting a fire under some cheeser's ass.
My reality cannot be unwarped as you did not answered how you avoid being drafted? How you just don't feel like going defend your country... You are a weekend starcraft forum nationalist. Lucky for Ukraine, I guess, that smart people are arguing on internet and not going to the army organise things! How unlucky it seems to me, that the smart guy who knows everything is stuck here arguing and those that can't use internet push those that can't read to the front line.
My point is that you are warping my reality. 1. unable to read and answer people's question. 2. unable to back why people are dying in a useless war. People like you blaming Ukraine for the situation they are in, are exactly the reason this war exists.
I've already written before in this thread, that I hold an academic position (at MIPT) thus have a reservation. And with my skills in statistics I'd rather go to some FSB service if they accept me (since my relatives live abroad this could be problematic)
>>How unlucky it seems to me, that the smart guy who knows everything is stuck here arguing and those that can't use internet push those that can't read to the front line.
-cannot agree more, the same mechanism is the key root of the most disgusting things in our world
1. - I could have missed something in good faith - and if I did, please tell - I'd try to answer anything, except from @KwarK and @maybenexttime, whom I believe to be professional trolls (though the second being a laughstock at the same time) 2. -They are dying obviously because their leaders cannot negotiate the things out. Yes, I blame the Ukrainian post-Maidan leaders that they have accepted the role of a tool for USA, and therefore act contrary to the interests of their own people. There's overwhelming evidence for it, with UA gambling on every turn, believing that unconditional support of the US is enough leverage to extort anything it wants from Russia, the examples are: -botched Minsk agreements - Ukraine could have got the republics peacefully, but couldn't agree on their autonomy; -then Zelensky doing a 180 degree flip from the elections peace platform - raising an army, perfectly capable of destroing D/LPR local forces; - then Istanbul agreements failing presumably due to the Bucha events, but later we're revealed by UA's head of the delegation Arakhamia that it has been because of Boris Johnson's pressure; - and currently we are at the point, where Ukraine tries all possible ways to gamble into making NATO engage directly. The mechanism is - try to provoke Russia into overreacting, doing all possible abominable acts like civilian terror, nuclear plants shelling, and so on. Kursk invasion is on the same line - instead of using a strategic advantage of the defender, they have preferred to gamble for a larger media effect.
On August 18 2024 18:34 jodljodl wrote: To the proponents of negotiations with Putin Russia:
From 2014 until February 24, 2022, negotiations took place almost continuously in various formats. Shortly before Putin Russia launched the Russian war of aggression against Ukraine in response to and in the midst of negotiations, there were intensive negotiations between Russia, the USA and NATO, which were apparently intended by Russia to remain without agreement. This was because Russia consistently insisted on its maximum demands, which were virtually impossible for the “Western” side to accept. With the Russian invasion of Ukraine, these diplomatic negotiations were implicitly ended unilaterally by the Russian side. On the other hand, at the same time as the attack on Ukraine, Russia put forward a proposal for a diplomatic “solution”: A de facto subjugation of Ukraine under Russian rule: The Russian Demands on Ukraine: - Ukraine laying down its arms - Abandonment of any ambitions to join NATO - Permanent neutral status - Introduction of Russian as the official state language - Recognition of Crimea as Russian - Recognize the so-called Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics as independent - “denazification” and ‘demilitarization’ of Ukraine; in other words, Ukraine must install a regime at Russia's mercy.
Anyone who, after listing these facts, is still of the opinion that diplomatic negotiations with Putin Russia are a way to create peace and security in Europe should now know better. After a decade of war and a multitude of diplomatic attempts to find some kind of amicable solution for peace, it is obvious that Putin Russia is seeking goals other than peace and solutions acceptable to all sides.
Sources: www.swp-berlin.org, www.swp-berlin.org and many many more you can easily find, have access to and confirm everything stated in the above sources.
First, you (actually, the propagandist that you quote) aptly conceal here, that in return for these mild requirements (most of these terms like neutrality, language issue, army size - is how Ukraine used to be before the coups, with neutrality being a key condition of its formation in 1991 in the first place) Ukraine would get back 90 thousand sq km of territories, lost in the spring campaign, which is close to the size of South Korea.
Second, it is generally a bad taste to quote one of the main propaganda centers instead of giving your own reasons
Third, your sentence on “denazification and demilitarization of Ukraine" smells of racism, because its "denazification" part implies that Ukraine cannot be self-sufficient without reliance on paramilitary nazi groups like Azov in its internal\external policy. I skip here the demilitarization part, because there is enough evidence that countries with limited armies can live well in this world.
Ukraine and her western allies would be more than willing to end the war. All it would take is the withdrawal of Russian troops from the sovereign territory of Ukraine and the recognition of Bilhorod and Kursk People's Republics (both have sizable Ukrainian-speaking populations) as independent states. These people have had to suffer under the Moscow regime for decades, their rights and culture slowly being eradicated. God forbid you even try to speak Ukrainian or fly the BPR flag (horizontal bicolor of black and yellow) in public anymore. Also good luck trying to find a Ukrainian school there, let alone a political party that represents these people.
Complete demilitarization of the Russian armed forces would of course also be necessary to ensure security of the Russia-BPR/KPR border and Ukrainian-speaking citizens in the region. In return, some of the sanctions against Russia would be lifted and Russia would be given back some of its frozen assets.
This would mean - more or less - going back to how things used to be. The people of BPR/KPR don't want anything to do with the Moscow regime, which is why there's no resistance to Ukraine's Special Military Operation and local forces are surrendering by the thousands to join their Ukrainian brothers. Why is the Moscow regime the only party against peace and these very mild requirements, choosing instead to keep sacrificing thousands of reluctant Russian kids in a desperate attempt to maintain their oppression of these pro-Ukrainian territories?
-the difference is, Ukraine has no power to bring this to life, and among its allies only US has enough power to make a war with Russia a draw, but I bet you would not like it. So the rest of this is you self-indulgence
On August 19 2024 00:41 jodljodl wrote: Very cute :>
-don't push yourself if you have nothing substantial. If you look through this thread you'll realize that what you write here has been said to me at least a hundred times, I couldn't care less of another one clowning around - this just shows me your level
Even cuter Since i'm fairly certain u're 100% aware that most of the things u say are utter lies not reflecting reality at all.
And yes I don't have any substantial I can add. That's excactly the reason why I give sources refering to people that actually have substantial things to add. Because this topic is their field of scientific research. Which everyone on this planet is allowed to check. There's nothing stopping you except yourself from fact checking their c.v. and statements, going further and further in their line of sources, methods and facts they base their statements on.
But you won't because you already know the outcome. It's correct, reflecting reality contradicting massive parts of your narrative thus proofing it wrong.
I don't know your intentions but I also don't really care since I cannot change anything about them; sadly. Sadly because I'm convinced that people like you hinder humanity in becoming united and making everybodies lifes better.
Yes this is to the utmost part sad and worriesome and frustrating. But there's also this tiny part which I find amusing. It's you acting like a child. Knowing you're wrong and it's obvious and everybody knows it. But you don't give a shit because as long as you stick to your story nobody can proof - in the mathematical sense - that your story is false. Because that's life. So you stick to it
And this, your childlike behaviour, I find cute
Now, much love to you and have a nice day, you little rascal
ps: you know, contradicting yourself is also pretty cute: I didn't engage you directly at all. I addressed all the proponents of negotiations with russia. I made my arguments which was "nothing substantial" and has been "said to you at least a hundred times" and you "couldn't care less of another one clowning around". But you obviously did care. At least enough to engage me.
You are very cute not giving one answer that proofs one of my statements wrong even though you should by now know them by heart since they have been said to you so many, many times. ---- Or actually, factually there aren't any?
Now, go pet your cute cat or whatever you do to make you feel good about yourself
This thread is slowly but surely deteriorating to a_ch vs. the rest of the world, im sorry but im not strong enough to read his propaganda takes anymore... cant we just vote him out of this message board via qualified majority (66%) or something?
I know freedom of speech is valued highly but its being activly undermined by russian bots and agents, one of which i presume a_ch to be. Isnt there a mod on here with some hair on his balls pro-ukraine enough to get rid of this piece of work?
I think it’s useful to have a Russian around so that we can remember why we need to keep sending Ukraine weapons. Though he may not personally receive a delivery of 180,000 tungsten balls he is representative of a popular attitude in Russia. It’s a problem best treated with tungsten. When sufficient tungsten has been delivered to the necessary recipients we may have peace with the more reasonable Russians.
On August 20 2024 21:48 KwarK wrote: I think it’s useful to have a Russian around so that we can remember why we need to keep sending Ukraine weapons. Though he may not personally receive a delivery of 180,000 tungsten balls he is representative of a popular attitude in Russia. It’s a problem best treated with tungsten. When sufficient tungsten has been delivered to the necessary recipients we may have peace with the more reasonable Russians.
On August 20 2024 21:48 KwarK wrote: I think it’s useful to have a Russian around so that we can remember why we need to keep sending Ukraine weapons. Though he may not personally receive a delivery of 180,000 tungsten balls he is representative of a popular attitude in Russia. It’s a problem best treated with tungsten. When sufficient tungsten has been delivered to the necessary recipients we may have peace with the more reasonable Russians.
To the last Ukrainian!
They’d fight on with sticks if all they had was sticks. They know what it is like to live under Russian rule. If they’d rather fight to the last Ukrainian than live under Russian rule then that is their right. I do see why the dignity in their struggle is alien to you though.
In any event, they don’t have to fight with sticks.
On August 20 2024 21:48 KwarK wrote: I think it’s useful to have a Russian around so that we can remember why we need to keep sending Ukraine weapons. Though he may not personally receive a delivery of 180,000 tungsten balls he is representative of a popular attitude in Russia. It’s a problem best treated with tungsten. When sufficient tungsten has been delivered to the necessary recipients we may have peace with the more reasonable Russians.
To the last Ukrainian!
They’d fight on with sticks if all they had was sticks. They know what it is like to live under Russian rule. If they’d rather fight to the last Ukrainian than live under Russian rule then that is their right. I do see why the dignity in their struggle is alien to you though.
In any event, they don’t have to fight with sticks.
If they want to come for the land and the homes of the Donbass and Crimean people with sticks or whatever you want to give them then keep pushing them to do just that. Maybe when the sufficient amount have been sent we may have peace with the more reasonable Kievites left.
On August 20 2024 21:48 KwarK wrote: I think it’s useful to have a Russian around so that we can remember why we need to keep sending Ukraine weapons. Though he may not personally receive a delivery of 180,000 tungsten balls he is representative of a popular attitude in Russia. It’s a problem best treated with tungsten. When sufficient tungsten has been delivered to the necessary recipients we may have peace with the more reasonable Russians.
To the last Ukrainian!
They’d fight on with sticks if all they had was sticks. They know what it is like to live under Russian rule. If they’d rather fight to the last Ukrainian than live under Russian rule then that is their right. I do see why the dignity in their struggle is alien to you though.
In any event, they don’t have to fight with sticks.
If they want to come for the land and the homes of the Donbass and Crimean people with sticks or whatever you want to give them then keep pushing them to do just that. Maybe when the sufficient amount have been sent we may have peace with the more reasonable Kievites left.
"If we kill the vast majority of Ukrainians who don't want to live under Russian rule then we can subjugate make peace with the ones that do!"
I guess this is to be expected. You'd presumably apply similar logic to Kosovans.
On August 20 2024 21:48 KwarK wrote: I think it’s useful to have a Russian around so that we can remember why we need to keep sending Ukraine weapons. Though he may not personally receive a delivery of 180,000 tungsten balls he is representative of a popular attitude in Russia. It’s a problem best treated with tungsten. When sufficient tungsten has been delivered to the necessary recipients we may have peace with the more reasonable Russians.
To the last Ukrainian!
They’d fight on with sticks if all they had was sticks. They know what it is like to live under Russian rule. If they’d rather fight to the last Ukrainian than live under Russian rule then that is their right. I do see why the dignity in their struggle is alien to you though.
In any event, they don’t have to fight with sticks.
If they want to come for the land and the homes of the Donbass and Crimean people with sticks or whatever you want to give them then keep pushing them to do just that. Maybe when the sufficient amount have been sent we may have peace with the more reasonable Kievites left.
On August 19 2024 23:57 sertas wrote: Obviously, russia expected Zelensky to flee the country and russia to be seen as "liberators" and that even if ukraine fights they are completely outmatched.
do you have any factual evidence of these expectation? Not an opinion of some propagandist, but facts.
Russians packed parade uniforms, made restaurant reservations, and forgot to put their economy on a war footing. They either didn’t expect a serious fight or they’re very bad at planning. In fairness Crimea wasn’t a serious fight so it’s not unreasonable to assume the rest might fold.
I think it’s not in dispute that where we’re at now certainly wasn’t the original plan when they were sending the VDV into Hostomel. Any argument against poor Russian planning has to explain how the plan involved the collapse of Russian lines during the Kharkiv counteroffensive and huge amounts of Russian hardware being captured (Russia is still by far the largest donor of tanks to Ukraine).
I think it’s less embarrassing for Russia to have had a shit plan than for this to be the plan.
A slight off-topic but still, since you continue to follow most of my posts: Several times in my carieer I encountered people, who decided for themselves that they are intellectually not a match for being top-tier, and chose a path of a 'yes-man' of some sort. I have the same feeling of deliberate intellectual self-castration in each of your post - it is very clear that you understand how dumb are the things that you write, but you have to continue, - and this cognitive dissonance is destroying you. It is quite clear that you are have a significant stake in the ongoing events, but you side is bound to lose, and your skills would be much less valued afterwards. It is never too late to change this
That is also the exact same path conspiracy theorists and contrarians tread. Can’t compete in the world of discussing and disseminating fact? Well anyone can be the master in the domain of alternative facts.
Characterised by regurgitating propaganda, just from a different source, being unable to actually discuss challenges to a worldview beyond ‘well you’re brainwashed’ etc etc
-why do you think so? I've started this subthread with @maybenexttime with an open notion that any emotional one-sided stories are propaganda - and I'm generally not into this sort of stuff as you may notice. My one and only reason of being here is procrastination - so any topic would be fine, and challenges to a worldview is a perfect one - but perhaps I have missed an open end of a discussion
Btw, I disagree on the conspiracy theorist part - because often it is exactly a challenge to a common worldview
To properly challenge an orthodox worldview, one has to understand said worldview and be able to couch alternatives within it. And engage with folks who largely follow it.
It’s 2024 however, so it becomes less interpretative and more ‘actually all those things you think happened and raised didn’t happen so I’m right’
But this trend is equally as prominent, if not more in the ‘critical thinkers’ than the ‘hey I’m not an expert I just watch the news’.
People will dismiss folks out of hand if they’ve seen this rodeo enough hands, it’s not indicative of any lack of open-mindedness, just seeking other pastures where it may actually be found.
Sure, Russian propaganda is a challenge to my worldview, but given that is transparently absolute bollocks it’s not an interesting, or valid challenge to my preconceptions.
On August 19 2024 23:57 sertas wrote: Obviously, russia expected Zelensky to flee the country and russia to be seen as "liberators" and that even if ukraine fights they are completely outmatched.
do you have any factual evidence of these expectation? Not an opinion of some propagandist, but facts.
Russians packed parade uniforms, made restaurant reservations, and forgot to put their economy on a war footing. They either didn’t expect a serious fight or they’re very bad at planning. In fairness Crimea wasn’t a serious fight so it’s not unreasonable to assume the rest might fold.
I think it’s not in dispute that where we’re at now certainly wasn’t the original plan when they were sending the VDV into Hostomel. Any argument against poor Russian planning has to explain how the plan involved the collapse of Russian lines during the Kharkiv counteroffensive and huge amounts of Russian hardware being captured (Russia is still by far the largest donor of tanks to Ukraine).
I think it’s less embarrassing for Russia to have had a shit plan than for this to be the plan.
A slight off-topic but still, since you continue to follow most of my posts: Several times in my carieer I encountered people, who decided for themselves that they are intellectually not a match for being top-tier, and chose a path of a 'yes-man' of some sort. I have the same feeling of deliberate intellectual self-castration in each of your post - it is very clear that you understand how dumb are the things that you write, but you have to continue, - and this cognitive dissonance is destroying you. It is quite clear that you are have a significant stake in the ongoing events, but you side is bound to lose, and your skills would be much less valued afterwards. It is never too late to change this
That is also the exact same path conspiracy theorists and contrarians tread. Can’t compete in the world of discussing and disseminating fact? Well anyone can be the master in the domain of alternative facts.
Characterised by regurgitating propaganda, just from a different source, being unable to actually discuss challenges to a worldview beyond ‘well you’re brainwashed’ etc etc
-why do you think so? I've started this subthread with @maybenexttime with an open notion that any emotional one-sided stories are propaganda - and I'm generally not into this sort of stuff as you may notice. My one and only reason of being here is procrastination - so any topic would be fine, and challenges to a worldview is a perfect one - but perhaps I have missed an open end of a discussion
Btw, I disagree on the conspiracy theorist part - because often it is exactly a challenge to a common worldview
To properly challenge an orthodox worldview, one has to understand said worldview and be able to couch alternatives within it. And engage with folks who largely follow it.
It’s 2024 however, so it becomes less interpretative and more ‘actually all those things you think happened and raised didn’t happen so I’m right’
But this trend is equally as prominent, if not more in the ‘critical thinkers’ than the ‘hey I’m not an expert I just watch the news’.
People will dismiss folks out of hand if they’ve seen this rodeo enough hands, it’s not indicative of any lack of open-mindedness, just seeking other pastures where it may actually be found.
Sure, Russian propaganda is a challenge to my worldview, but given that is transparently absolute bollocks it’s not an interesting, or valid challenge to my preconceptions.
On August 20 2024 21:48 KwarK wrote: I think it’s useful to have a Russian around so that we can remember why we need to keep sending Ukraine weapons. Though he may not personally receive a delivery of 180,000 tungsten balls he is representative of a popular attitude in Russia. It’s a problem best treated with tungsten. When sufficient tungsten has been delivered to the necessary recipients we may have peace with the more reasonable Russians.
To the last Ukrainian!
They’d fight on with sticks if all they had was sticks. They know what it is like to live under Russian rule. If they’d rather fight to the last Ukrainian than live under Russian rule then that is their right. I do see why the dignity in their struggle is alien to you though.
In any event, they don’t have to fight with sticks.
If they want to come for the land and the homes of the Donbass and Crimean people with sticks or whatever you want to give them then keep pushing them to do just that. Maybe when the sufficient amount have been sent we may have peace with the more reasonable Kievites left.
The Donbas was at peace until Russia invaded it.
Ukraine was at peace until the Obama administration sought to overthrow the democratically elected president of Ukraine in a violent coup spearheaded by neonazis thugs. The resulting kakistocracy in Kiev tore the country apart by actively and violently suppressing the 50% of the country that didn't accept the illegal coup. Crimea and the Donbass rightly took it upon themselves to bring back the rule of law from the new illegitimate government in Kiev.
The peace ended when Avakov acting as the interior minister in April 2014 declared his 48h anti-terrorist operation. Well, its been almost 3800 days since then so things didn't really turn out how the unelected government planned
EPT
Since i'm fairly certain u're 100% aware that most of the things u say are utter lies not reflecting reality at all.
actually, factually there aren't any?
