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On August 19 2024 23:41 Velr wrote: They tried to take Kiev and either install a puppet to control all of Ukraine or outright take it. They sent a very big invasion force towards kiev, launched airstrikes and meanwhile dropped paratroopers at the airport. Due to Russias incompetence it didn't work out. The paratroopers became sitting ducks at the airport due to the "conventional" ground offensive getting stalled and then stuck in the mud. Meanwhile they also attacked other cities with more success, but these also stalled soon after and got pushed back significantly during Ukraines first counter offensive. After that Russia dug itself in and the second Ukraine offensive failed, thats pretty much it until recently when Ukraine attacked Kursk catching Russia with its pants down (again).
"Special military operation for denazification of Ukraine" allways was pure BS, it was the biggest offensive on european soil since WW2... Now Russia is struggling to somehow try to make this look like any sort of win, while only being capable of making any noteworthy gains by sending waves of meat and flattening cities with artillery barrages.
It was a bad plan, badly executed lead by bad leaders from a corrupt, evil empire. May it burn to the ground.
A "very big invasion force" consisted of ~200thousand men total, with less than half on the Kiev direction. Do you think its possible to occupy Kiev (~3mln population) with such army? The puppet version is more reasonable though. Do you think it would be possible to successfully attack the other directions if not for the chaos in Kiev in the first two weeks?
Obviously, russia expected Zelensky to flee the country and russia to be seen as "liberators" and that even if ukraine fights they are completely outmatched.
Western experts gave ukraine 2 months at most. Putin bragged years ago that he can take kyiv in 2 weeks. All the russian estimates would've been similar to the western experts I would imagine. Many fsb officers got arrested after the russian failed invasion for misleading information.
On August 19 2024 19:55 KwarK wrote: Russia’s Duma passed a law in 2023 that recognized the Russian proxies in the Donbas as Russian soldiers for the purpose of giving state veteran benefits.
Russia and Putin specifically have also ceased pretending that the special forces deployed to Crimea weren’t army regulars.
So we have a situation in which eastern Ukraine is suddenly overrun by Russians wearing Russian uniforms, holding Russian weapons, and commanded by Russian officers. The Kremlin maintained that they were enthusiastic tourists who probably got their stuff at a military surplus store. After achieving their goals in Crimea the Kremlin backtracked on its prior denials and admitted that the little green men in Crimea were actually regular Russian military. But we’re supposed to believe the ones in the Donbas were not? Despite their access to Russian anti aircraft missile batteries? And despite being Russians in official Russian uniforms? And despite it counting for Russian army combat veteran status?
I’d sooner believe in the independent indigenous Kursk People’s Republic forces.
The year two thousand and twenty three. One year after their state merged with Russia a Law being passed treating them as Russian citizens. Well I'll be. Who could have imagined that? Thats wild.
While the 2014 coup led to the troubles in both Crimea and the Donbass their routes in dealing with the new regime and fallout were completely different. While the Crimeas was welcomed with open arms like a favorite son returning home the Russians and Ukrainians living in the Donbass had to fight tooth and nail for every inch of their freedom, the people took back their lands, it might have only been half of Lugansk and Donetsk regions but it was their half and they were safe from the post-Maidan governments in Kiev.
While you might have gaslighted yourself into believing whatever the spin of the day is - people were there in 2014, reporters were there, the same people are still there some living normal lives, others fighting for their land. That said I can recommend the documentary series Roses Have Thorns, a 17 part series, each part 1-2 hours long with no commentary just a collection of western and Russian/Ukrainian news archives of the period chronicling events as they happened.
Above is part 2 following the Anti-Maidan with later parts covering the Donbass. edit: Most important for the subject at hand are the two parts regarding the siege of Slavyansk. Count the number of 'Russian soldiers'
There is also this 5 hour documentary of the same format:
From the 30min mark they start covering the post-Maidan fallout up until the downing of MH17.
On August 19 2024 19:55 KwarK wrote: Russia’s Duma passed a law in 2023 that recognized the Russian proxies in the Donbas as Russian soldiers for the purpose of giving state veteran benefits.
Russia and Putin specifically have also ceased pretending that the special forces deployed to Crimea weren’t army regulars.
So we have a situation in which eastern Ukraine is suddenly overrun by Russians wearing Russian uniforms, holding Russian weapons, and commanded by Russian officers. The Kremlin maintained that they were enthusiastic tourists who probably got their stuff at a military surplus store. After achieving their goals in Crimea the Kremlin backtracked on its prior denials and admitted that the little green men in Crimea were actually regular Russian military. But we’re supposed to believe the ones in the Donbas were not? Despite their access to Russian anti aircraft missile batteries? And despite being Russians in official Russian uniforms? And despite it counting for Russian army combat veteran status?
I’d sooner believe in the independent indigenous Kursk People’s Republic forces.
The year two thousand and twenty three. One year after their state merged with Russia a Law being passed treating them as Russian citizens. Well I'll be. Who could have imagined that? Thats wild.
While the 2014 coup led to the troubles in both Crimea and the Donbass their routes in dealing with the new regime and fallout were completely different. While the Crimeas was welcomed with open arms like a favorite son returning home the Russians and Ukrainians living in the Donbass had to fight tooth and nail for every inch of their freedom, the people took back their lands, it might have only been half of Lugansk and Donetsk regions but it was their half and they were safe from the post-Maidan governments in Kiev.
While you might have gaslighted yourself into believing whatever the spin of the day is - people were there in 2014, reporters were there, the same people are still there some living normal lives, others fighting for their land. That said I can recommend the documentary series Roses Have Thorns, a 17 part series, each part 1-2 hours long with no commentary just a collection of western and Russian/Ukrainian news archives of the period chronicling events as they happened.
Above is part 2 following the Anti-Maidan with later parts covering the Donbass. edit: Most important for the subject at hand are the two parts regarding the siege of Slavyansk. Count the number of 'Russian soldiers'
There is also this 5 hour documentary of the same format:
On August 19 2024 23:57 sertas wrote: Obviously, russia expected Zelensky to flee the country and russia to be seen as "liberators" and that even if ukraine fights they are completely outmatched.
do you have any factual evidence of these expectations? Not an opinion of some propagandist, but facts.
On August 19 2024 23:57 sertas wrote: Western experts gave ukraine 2 months at most. Putin bragged years ago that he can take kyiv in 2 weeks. All the russian estimates would've been similar to the western experts I would imagine. Many fsb officers got arrested after the russian failed invasion for misleading information.
These arrested FSB officers would serve as an answer to my first question, - so since quite a time has passed, they must have been already tried by now - so please tell me at least their names and what they have been charged with, a link to a trial news would be fine.
On August 20 2024 00:28 maybenexttime wrote: Fight for their freedom? Do you have anything to say about the rampant torture men in Donbas are subjected to to force them to fight?
-I'd rather add something about the other side of the story. Your one could be true, could be fake - I don't know, and generally not interested (because these emotional stories are the main weapon of propaganda, and your one-sided approach clearly indicates that this is the case) For example, do you know why did the Ukrainian soldiers intentionally attack these 5 children on a playground in a Belgorod suburb? https://www.kp.ru/online/news/5895512/ Since the attack has been performed by dropping a grenade from a drone, the attacker had a clear vision on the target. Do the AFU feel threatened by 8-year children?
On August 19 2024 23:57 sertas wrote: Obviously, russia expected Zelensky to flee the country and russia to be seen as "liberators" and that even if ukraine fights they are completely outmatched.
do you have any factual evidence of these expectation? Not an opinion of some propagandist, but facts.
Russians packed parade uniforms, made restaurant reservations, and forgot to put their economy on a war footing. They either didn’t expect a serious fight or they’re very bad at planning. In fairness Crimea wasn’t a serious fight so it’s not unreasonable to assume the rest might fold.
I think it’s not in dispute that where we’re at now certainly wasn’t the original plan when they were sending the VDV into Hostomel. Any argument against poor Russian planning has to explain how the plan involved the collapse of Russian lines during the Kharkiv counteroffensive and huge amounts of Russian hardware being captured (Russia is still by far the largest donor of tanks to Ukraine).
I think it’s less embarrassing for Russia to have had a shit plan than for this to be the plan.
On August 19 2024 23:57 sertas wrote: Obviously, russia expected Zelensky to flee the country and russia to be seen as "liberators" and that even if ukraine fights they are completely outmatched.
do you have any factual evidence of these expectation? Not an opinion of some propagandist, but facts.
Russians packed parade uniforms, made restaurant reservations, and forgot to put their economy on a war footing. They either didn’t expect a serious fight or they’re very bad at planning. In fairness Crimea wasn’t a serious fight so it’s not unreasonable to assume the rest might fold.
I think it’s not in dispute that where we’re at now certainly wasn’t the original plan when they were sending the VDV into Hostomel. Any argument against poor Russian planning has to explain how the plan involved the collapse of Russian lines during the Kharkiv counteroffensive and huge amounts of Russian hardware being captured (Russia is still by far the largest donor of tanks to Ukraine).
I think it’s less embarrassing for Russia to have had a shit plan than for this to be the plan.
A slight off-topic but still, since you continue to follow most of my posts: Several times in my carieer I encountered people, who decided for themselves that they are intellectually not a match for being top-tier, and chose a path of a 'yes-man' of some sort. I have the same feeling of deliberate intellectual self-castration in each of your post - it is very clear that you understand how dumb are the things that you write, but you have to continue, - and this cognitive dissonance is destroying you. It is quite clear that you are have a significant stake in the ongoing events, but you side is bound to lose, and your skills would be much less valued afterwards. It is never too late to change this
On August 20 2024 03:55 a_ch wrote: -I'd rather add something about the other side of the story. Your one could be true, could be fake - I don't know, and generally not interested (because these emotional stories are the main weapon of propaganda, and your one-sided approach clearly indicates that this is the case) For example, do you know why did the Ukrainian soldiers intentionally attack these 5 children on a playground in a Belgorod suburb? https://www.kp.ru/online/news/5895512/ Since the attack has been performed by dropping a grenade from a drone, the attacker had a clear vision on the target. Do the AFU feel threatened by 8-year children?
Sure, you'd rather not address uncomfortable facts but focus on made-up bullshit from fucking Komsomolskaya Pravda. xD Why not bring up the story of that crucified boy that Russian propaganda cooked up. lol
You know how I know that story is bullshit? The drones dropping grenades have a range of 10 km. Shebekino would be barely in range. And how do you know it was a drone-dropped grenade? Because some communist rag said so? Komsomolskaya Pravda has zero credibility.
On August 20 2024 03:55 a_ch wrote: -I'd rather add something about the other side of the story. Your one could be true, could be fake - I don't know, and generally not interested (because these emotional stories are the main weapon of propaganda, and your one-sided approach clearly indicates that this is the case) For example, do you know why did the Ukrainian soldiers intentionally attack these 5 children on a playground in a Belgorod suburb? https://www.kp.ru/online/news/5895512/ Since the attack has been performed by dropping a grenade from a drone, the attacker had a clear vision on the target. Do the AFU feel threatened by 8-year children?
Sure, you'd rather not address uncomfortable facts but focus on made-up bullshit from fucking Komsomolskaya Pravda. xD Why not bring up the story of that crucified boy that Russian propaganda cooked up. lol
You know how I know that story is bullshit? The drones dropping grenades have a range of 10 km. Shebekino would be barely in range. And how do you know it was a drone-dropped grenade? Because some communist rag said so? Komsomolskaya Pravda has zero credibility.
-so you don't want to address the facts I brought, which are easily checkable? Why do you in return expect me to invest myself in some random propaganda articles? I've seen a ton of them already. If you don't like Komsomolskaya Pravda, I have another story, a recent one: a woman killed by FPV-drone attack, again Belgorod region. Again here we have not a collateral damage, but an intentional attack, where the operator saw what he was doing. Starting to look like a system, doesn't it? https://www.m24.ru/news/proisshestviya/04082024/714081
upd: about the 10km range. So, after 2 years of the war you haven't heard about retranslator drones? Your sources are quite bad
On August 20 2024 05:02 maybenexttime wrote: You haven't shown any evidence whatsoever. Just some news stories from sources without any credibility.
You go by the link and see; its possible to find obituaries and stuff. But if you are so lazy to search, you may like this, again a FPV attack killing a 75 year old woman: https://t.me/bazabazon/29979 Perhaps the operator thought that "if the drone is lost anyway, a granny is a fine target too", do you agree?
On August 20 2024 05:02 maybenexttime wrote: You haven't shown any evidence whatsoever. Just some news stories from sources without any credibility.
You go by the link and see; its possible to find obituaries and stuff. But if you are so lazy to search, you may like this, again a FPV attack killing a 75 year old woman: https://t.me/bazabazon/29979 Perhaps the operator thought that "if the drone is lost anyway, a granny is a fine target too", do you agree? Cause it seems he did like what he'd done, as the video became public
For someone who claims to work in academia (?) you have a laughable notion of evidence. I'm not disputing that some people died. That may very well be true. I'm disputing that Ukrainians deliberate killed them. You'd have to prove that (A) the Ukrainians did it (there are plenty of examples of Russians accidentally bombing their own towns) and (B) that it was deliberate. There is zero evidence that it was a grenade dropped from a drone. Your first story is citing an official who made a baseless claim. The "evidence" in your other story is literally a Telegram post making an unsubstantiated claim.
Meanwhile, there are countless well supported cases of Russia targeting civilians - schools, hospitals (hundreds of medical facilities bombed, according to the UN), supermarkets, torturing and massacring civilians. As per a UN human rights monitor, 95% POWs captured by Russia were tortured. There are countless stories of Russians torturing their own.
You're such a clown. I hope you get what's coming to you.
On August 19 2024 23:57 sertas wrote: Obviously, russia expected Zelensky to flee the country and russia to be seen as "liberators" and that even if ukraine fights they are completely outmatched.
do you have any factual evidence of these expectation? Not an opinion of some propagandist, but facts.
Russians packed parade uniforms, made restaurant reservations, and forgot to put their economy on a war footing. They either didn’t expect a serious fight or they’re very bad at planning. In fairness Crimea wasn’t a serious fight so it’s not unreasonable to assume the rest might fold.
I think it’s not in dispute that where we’re at now certainly wasn’t the original plan when they were sending the VDV into Hostomel. Any argument against poor Russian planning has to explain how the plan involved the collapse of Russian lines during the Kharkiv counteroffensive and huge amounts of Russian hardware being captured (Russia is still by far the largest donor of tanks to Ukraine).
I think it’s less embarrassing for Russia to have had a shit plan than for this to be the plan.
A slight off-topic but still, since you continue to follow most of my posts: Several times in my carieer I encountered people, who decided for themselves that they are intellectually not a match for being top-tier, and chose a path of a 'yes-man' of some sort. I have the same feeling of deliberate intellectual self-castration in each of your post - it is very clear that you understand how dumb are the things that you write, but you have to continue, - and this cognitive dissonance is destroying you. It is quite clear that you are have a significant stake in the ongoing events, but you side is bound to lose, and your skills would be much less valued afterwards. It is never too late to change this
On August 20 2024 05:02 maybenexttime wrote: You haven't shown any evidence whatsoever. Just some news stories from sources without any credibility.
You go by the link and see; its possible to find obituaries and stuff. But if you are so lazy to search, you may like this, again a FPV attack killing a 75 year old woman: https://t.me/bazabazon/29979 Perhaps the operator thought that "if the drone is lost anyway, a granny is a fine target too", do you agree? Cause it seems he did like what he'd done, as the video became public
For someone who claims to work in academia (?) you have a laughable notion of evidence. I'm not disputing that some people died. That may very well be true. I'm disputing that Ukrainians deliberate killed them. You'd have to prove that (A) the Ukrainians did it (there are plenty of examples of Russians accidentally bombing their own towns) and (B) that it was deliberate. There is zero evidence that it was a grenade dropped from a drone. Your first story is citing an official who made a baseless claim. The "evidence" in your other story is literally a Telegram post making an unsubstantiated claim.
Meanwhile, there are countless well supported cases of Russia targeting civilians - schools, hospitals (hundreds of medical facilities bombed, according to the UN), supermarkets, torturing and massacring civilians. As per a UN human rights m monitor, 95% POWs captured by Russia were tortured. There are countless stories of Russians torturing their own.
You're such a clown. I hope you get what's coming to you.
-so, the RU army accidentally does drone-bombing in Shebekino? Or maybe some third party is involved? I don't know thats really complicated. A sidenote - you should send a CV to IAEA, who visit aftermaths of attacks on nuclear plants, but each time cannot come to a conclusion on who had been the attacking side. How do you think, if Russia tomorrow shells some working facilities of the Chernobyl NPP, would IAEA also be so modest in its conclusions? B - if you think that a video of a FPV flying into an open window of 5-floor living appartment is perhaps Mosfilm footage, then I have no understanding, why do you put any belief into some oral evidence of a presumptive former POW? Stories like that sell well, I dont see any reason why they would not invent a couple or two.
On August 20 2024 06:07 maybenexttime wrote: Again, zero evidence that it was a drone.
Hundred percent a UFO, case solved, bravo! Please help me solve another one: some people say that in this video AFU soldiers kill with a drone grenade two Volchansk civilians, who decided to try to cross the frontline and go to Russian positions: https://t.me/mash/56772
And I'd like to hear your opinion on the Chernobyl case too.
upd: Why are you so angry? All I want from you is to put at least a close level of scrutiny and evidence requirements. If a video of a FPV drone kill of a civilian is not enough, why don't you be consistent, and check if these POWs could be some BDSM people with strange fetishes like you? Half of your posts are about torture, rape etc after all.
On August 20 2024 06:25 maybenexttime wrote: I'm not wasting my time. You're a clown.
I'm trying to entertain you, and you don't appreciate it. And I'm sure you know well, why some evil people say that it was Ukraine that has killed these 25 civilians in Donetsk open market? https://t.me/rt_russian/186902 I'm sure you'll be able to easily spin this one too
EPT
