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Russo-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 296

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
Slydie
Profile Joined August 2013
1929 Posts
October 26 2022 22:06 GMT
#5901
Russia/Wagner group are pushing to hire Afghan troops trained by the US to fight on their side. It is feared that 10k could be tempted to join, but this could only be speculation. The story is reported by several outlets:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11356165/Afghan-commandos-trained-Allied-forces-recruited-RUSSIA-fight-Ukraine.html
Buff the siegetank
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 26 2022 22:07 GMT
#5902
Seeing how they have been treating Muslim soldiers don't know how that could be a positive for Russia.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22051 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-26 22:23:27
October 26 2022 22:22 GMT
#5903
Didn't Russia already try to hire a bunch of Afghan fighters before and the result was negligible?

Just because they want to hire them, doesn't mean they want to be hired.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 27 2022 01:08 GMT
#5904
One can only imagine what colder weather could play in the future assements of Russian forces.



A Reuters investigation of a document trove found in an abandoned Russian command post in Balakliya, Kharkiv Oblast, supports ISW’s longstanding assessments about the poor condition of Russian forces. ISW has long assessed that the conventional Russian military in Ukraine is severely degraded and has largely lost offensive capabilities since the summer of 2022, that Russian strategic commanders have been micromanaging operational commanders' decisions on tactical matters, and that Russian morale is very low. Reuters’ investigation found that Russian units near Balakliya were severely understrength, with a combat battalion at 19.6-percent strength and a reserve unit at 23-percent strength.[1] The investigation found that poor morale, bad logistics, and overbearing commanders contributed to Russian forces’ poor performance.[2] The report found that the Russian Western Military District explicitly forbade a subordinate from withdrawing from an untenable position in the small village of Hrakove (which has an area of less than three square kilometers).[3] Ukrainian forces defeated Russian forces in Balakiya and routed Russian forces in eastern Kharkiv Oblast around September 8-10.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
DropBear
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia4386 Posts
October 27 2022 10:55 GMT
#5905
I mean surely the cold isn't going to be helping Ukraine's troop morale either
Sucker for nostalgia
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15359 Posts
October 27 2022 11:15 GMT
#5906
On October 27 2022 19:55 DropBear wrote:
I mean surely the cold isn't going to be helping Ukraine's troop morale either

Not going to help, no, but getting properly supplied like Ukraine is vs having to scrape by like Russian conscripts will have an even bigger impact in winter than it had in summer.

Can't dig holes or march with frozen fingers or toes.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4740 Posts
October 27 2022 11:44 GMT
#5907
Winter will be hard for soldiers on both sides and for civilians in Ukraine. Thankfully autumn so far has been pretty warm this year.
Pathetic Greta hater.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany7030 Posts
October 27 2022 12:28 GMT
#5908
Does the cold make a difference in warfare in general?
Thermal imaging, weapon/ explosives/ payload function with subzero temperature and stuff like that?
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11717 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-27 12:33:35
October 27 2022 12:32 GMT
#5909
On October 27 2022 21:28 Harris1st wrote:
Does the cold make a difference in warfare in general?
Thermal imaging, weapon/ explosives/ payload function with subzero temperature and stuff like that?


People. Warfare is done by people. Those people need to be outside in a trench for long periods of time (days or weeks potentially). Which is problematic if it is cold, and you don't have good cold gear.

It is not only uncomfortable and thus really bad for morale, but people can actually die of cold, too. It is something we are not used to in modern times in western europe, so it is easy to just wave off cold temperatures as a small inconvenience. But if you cannot go to a warm house to spend most of your day it, and have to stay outside day and night, it can get bad.

Edit: Imagine spending a week in a whole you dug in the ground. Now imagine doing that in winter.
Taelshin
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada420 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-27 13:32:46
October 27 2022 12:35 GMT
#5910
Frozen ground could make armored warfare much easier. But if its the kind of mild cold(freeze-thaw) that would likely be worse for it. It might literally be up to the climate on how this war will progress.



Edit: Changed extreme cold to frozen ground. And added a "could".
"We didnt listen"
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 27 2022 12:47 GMT
#5911
There are photos of Russians dead by hypothermia when the invasion began in February. Now Ukraine is/will be getting Winter uniforms via Canada, Norway, Germany and two other nations. Yes sitting in a trench or foxhole is miserable, even more miserable in Winter, but with a modern Winter protection will have a tremendous impact.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
October 27 2022 12:53 GMT
#5912
--- Nuked ---
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
October 27 2022 13:01 GMT
#5913
For sure the winter is going to be less uncomfortable for Ukrainian soldiers due to better clothing, and that's very important for morale. But offensives are very difficult and often impossible during winter. Even though Russia will lose more soldiers due to the cold, I don't know if that will have a noticeable effect on the outcome of the war. It might speed up desertions and such things if the war continues come winter 2023.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
Taelshin
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada420 Posts
October 27 2022 13:09 GMT
#5914
@Jimmi if the ground is hard, is my point, you live in Canada, I know you know the difference, don't act a fool.
"We didnt listen"
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany7030 Posts
October 27 2022 13:19 GMT
#5915
On October 27 2022 21:32 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2022 21:28 Harris1st wrote:
Does the cold make a difference in warfare in general?
Thermal imaging, weapon/ explosives/ payload function with subzero temperature and stuff like that?


People. Warfare is done by people. Those people need to be outside in a trench for long periods of time (days or weeks potentially). Which is problematic if it is cold, and you don't have good cold gear.

It is not only uncomfortable and thus really bad for morale, but people can actually die of cold, too. It is something we are not used to in modern times in western europe, so it is easy to just wave off cold temperatures as a small inconvenience. But if you cannot go to a warm house to spend most of your day it, and have to stay outside day and night, it can get bad.

Edit: Imagine spending a week in a whole you dug in the ground. Now imagine doing that in winter.


Sorry if I worded it wrong. Obviously the human factor in winter is the most important.
But I was actually asking more for the machinery and technology of things. I mean a simple AK is probably not affected by lower temperatures but how about the more advanced stuff? And with thermal images you can probably spot someone holed up in a trench/ abandoned house from miles away. Heat signature differences and such.
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4740 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-27 13:34:50
October 27 2022 13:28 GMT
#5916
Tanks and other heavy equipment is not made to operate in extreme cold. Steel becomes brittle in low temperatures. Batteries run out quicker. Some engines have hard time starting and wear much faster. Diesel fuel start to freeze around 0 Celsisus, at -15 it becomes unusable grease. Planes and other flying equipment also have problems with very low temperatures. Weapons will jam more often, some ordinance will not explode...

Not to mention how hard it is on people. Because of the prelevance of thermal imaging on both sides of this conflict heating is very problematic. You make a campfire --> You die, You start a generator --> You die. You start a tank or IFV --> You are visible to everyone around. That means You can't have warm food or have proper sleep. Even the best gear available doesn't make sleeping in extreme cold comfortable, it just makes it possible.
Pathetic Greta hater.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-27 14:34:13
October 27 2022 14:33 GMT
#5917
Israel has started to share intelligence with Ukraine, no idea what said intel would be about other than Iran.

Israel has started working with Ukraine on intelligence, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Wednesday.

Zelensky told a press conference in Kyiv that the cooperation between the countries was on a positive trajectory.

“I’ll tell you honestly, I’m satisfied with the past few days,” he said, according to a statement from his office. “We started working. I won’t give details because our intelligence was working, but I want to say, after a long pause, I see these steps [as moving] forward.

“We need Israel’s help and political leadership, and as I said, it has started in recent days,” Zelensky said.

Still, Zelensky said he expects even more cooperation “because Israel is a state that knows in detail what war and tragedy are, and Israeli society fully supports Ukrainians,” his office stated.

Zelensky said he hopes that relations between the governments in Jerusalem and Kyiv can be as warm as that between their societies.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
October 27 2022 14:51 GMT
#5918
--- Nuked ---
Ardias
Profile Joined January 2014
Russian Federation617 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-10-27 15:19:22
October 27 2022 15:18 GMT
#5919
On October 27 2022 22:09 Taelshin wrote:
@Jimmi if the ground is hard, is my point, you live in Canada, I know you know the difference, don't act a fool.

Ground, yes. But hardness of the ground doesn't make much difference if there is metre-high snow on top of it.

As for overall impact on warfare - it would become harder on both sides, that's for sure. Even if snow isn't too high for the tracked vehicles, there are still wheeled ones, towed equipment and foot soldiers moving around. You'll need extra heating for everything, from people to vehicles (for example, minimal guaranteed engine start temperature for T-72 diesel engine without preemptive heating is -20 C), extra heating = more exposure to thermals, more stress on logistics (add to that snow on the roads). You'll have to establish more permanent quarters for troops, since you can't sleep it out somewhere on the grass like in summer. Also there is issue with providing everything to civilians, any damage to utility infrastracture is much more crucial in winter.
Though at least non-canned food preservation and water (since it's literally everywhere) are not much of a concern.

Now the question is, if one side would percieve that other is suffering from the winter more, and would try the exploit it (like Soviets did in 1941 and 1942). So increased hardness of warfare doesn't necessarily mean cessation of hostilities.
Mess with the best or die like the rest.
Taelshin
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada420 Posts
October 27 2022 15:33 GMT
#5920
@jimmic I forgot you were an expert on heavy machinery and the landscape of eastern Europe. My apologies. Hey at least your not accusing me of being someone else so that's nice, I appreciate the back and forth.



"We didnt listen"
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