EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 248
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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schaf
Germany1326 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Also Sky News, I think, will air the Press Conference which one of them said begins in about 11 mins. | ||
KwarK
United States44288 Posts
“Ah yes, the North Sea. We read about it and heard that it was over 70m deep. We simply had to travel there to see it for ourselves.” | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Can only assume Lyman is close to collapse. Also Danish authorities: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/energistyrelsen-vi-forventer-gassen-er-ude-paa-soendag
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Sermokala
United States14208 Posts
On September 28 2022 22:43 KwarK wrote: I would never doubt the US military industrial complex when there’s money to be made. There are also huge stockpiles of everything because you need to keep the factories open but you don’t always use everything. The US buys shit it has no intention of using year after year as a strategic procurement program. The real problem is that almost all of what Ukraine has received is last generation equipment, not current. HIMARS are being phased out by their new replacement, for example. This stuff isn’t being mass produced anymore because they’re pivoting to the newer better versions. Right now Russia is losing to Soviet tanks and 20 year old NATO kit that someone found in an abandoned warehouse. If we run out of old stuff to send them we’ll just send them the good stuff. Lend lease is on the table. thats a blank check from a nation that loves to send blank checks to the defense industry even when its not at war. Ramping up would take a lot of time and money. Its a good thing they started months ago and have American defence industry money to do it. After the war is over they'll need that production levels to replace Russian-based kit in NATO countries and in countries that wants stuff that has proven to be quality. Some people think sending $15 billion to Ukraine is a lot of money to America and its really not. That wouldn't cover a week of our defence budget. A WEEK. If russia is a gas station America is a hilbilly who makes videos of him blowing up rodents(which exists btw). | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27365 Posts
On September 29 2022 02:56 Sermokala wrote: Lend lease is on the table. thats a blank check from a nation that loves to send blank checks to the defense industry even when its not at war. Ramping up would take a lot of time and money. Its a good thing they started months ago and have American defence industry money to do it. After the war is over they'll need that production levels to replace Russian-based kit in NATO countries and in countries that wants stuff that has proven to be quality. Some people think sending $15 billion to Ukraine is a lot of money to America and its really not. That wouldn't cover a week of our defence budget. A WEEK. If russia is a gas station America is a hilbilly who makes videos of him blowing up rodents(which exists btw). Those darn Explodin’ Varmints… | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
I cud make em boom louder ifn they was bigger. | ||
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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zeo
Serbia6343 Posts
On September 28 2022 19:50 maybenexttime wrote: And what would be the lesson in the unlikely case Russia wins? That might makes right? That you can get away with genocide if you have enough nuclear weapons? I think its fairly obvious that nuclear powers have actively caused widespread destruction around the globe without the slightest care for international law since the 90s. Obviously this is wrong and there should be reforms put in place within international bodies to deter this. Though how effective they can be without a multipolar World is another matter. Replying to your first question. Over the past decade or so a sadistic streak and bloodlust has emerged among a privileged group of people that have grown accustomed to not being held accountable for their calls to war, poverty and destruction. These people deem to know what is best for all walks of life on the planet, and those that do not see the World as they - perfectly do - are dehumanized relentlessly to the point where this circle of people don't feel any shame when they openly grieve over jihadists not taking over Syria and enslaving its people. One does not think twice about the Mad Max style dystopian failed state Libya became after Gadaffi was murdered. In their eyes they can do no wrong, the hundreds of thousands of dead don't matter. All that matters is that they feel good about themselves. No conscience, no internal monologue, no semblance of empathy, not one single critical thought or reflection on what they are actually doing or saying. When I heard about the mobilization starting in Russia; here I thought, surely the people that downplayed the Kiev government basically entrapping the entire male population of the country and forcing 4 waves of conscription upon them, the exodus of the female population, the massive amounts on film of men being beaten and dragged into conscription. Surely these people wouldn't fall for the cheap propaganda, the negative biases ect. and not humiliate their own intellect by not using the same mental gymnastics for this? We all know the answer to that. The sad part is that the most insecure among them will take that last sentence, ignore the entire post I made and reply with a low effort, twenty word shitpost about how they are right and I am wrong over the most menial and mundane semantics, along with a tiktok or twitter link as some kind of validation. So to get back on point, they feel safe in their box, nodding their heads as the same short validation posts come in, never hearing any other opinion besides what is served to them, anything that they can hear is carefully curated to be a strawman they can easily burn down and feel good about themselves. Now, everyone honestly is allowed to think and act how they please... but regrettably they feel they have the right to push and gloat over ruin and destruction because it makes them feel better. At the end of the day they don't care one bit about the people of Ukraine, they are peasants that need to be rounded up, given a pike, a tin hat, and sent to the 'boogieman of the day' front lines. Their place is to be pushed in front of their noble cavalry, dying for the interests of their lords and masters while they clap on. No number of dead Ukrainians is too small to complete their feat, no peace treaties can come in the way of their appeal to emotion fallacies. No one is above the enlightened Westerner, who sits in his minimalist flat in Copenhagen or Rotterdam eating organic vegan foods and drives a Tesla. People need to die so that this non-endangered class can feel special. Why wouldn't you want to die for this person? Maybe when that enlightened person feels the consequences of their actions, when their heaters run cold, when the deep sea internet cables get cut, when they run out of food. Maybe then they won't be so quick to call for blood, maybe then they will try diplomacy, maybe then they will get off their high horse and start being pragmatic about the World around them and compromise once in a while Maybe, just maybe they will stop seeing the people whose wealth they steal and enslave as subhumans not capable of forming their own opinions. Now, isn't that a radical thought? | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation618 Posts
Crimea https://t.me/boris_rozhin/65052 Rostov https://rg.ru/2022/09/28/reg-ufo/v-rostovskoj-oblasti-zaversheny-meropriiatiia-po-chastichnoj-mobilizacii.html Yakutia https://tass.ru/obschestvo/15871587 Arkhangelsk https://t.me/arkhangelsk01/6612 In Arkhangelsk though they hinted that new wave of mobilization may be announced. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5864 Posts
On September 29 2022 04:17 zeo wrote: I think its fairly obvious that nuclear powers have actively caused widespread destruction around the globe without the slightest care for international law since the 90s. Obviously this is wrong and there should be reforms put in place within international bodies to deter this. Though how effective they can be without a multipolar World is another matter. Replying to your first question. Over the past decade or so a sadistic streak and bloodlust has emerged among a privileged group of people that have grown accustomed to not being held accountable for their calls to war, poverty and destruction. These people deem to know what is best for all walks of life on the planet, and those that do not see the World as they - perfectly do - are dehumanized relentlessly to the point where this circle of people don't feel any shame when they openly grieve over jihadists not taking over Syria and enslaving its people. One does not think twice about the Mad Max style dystopian failed state Libya became after Gadaffi was murdered. In their eyes they can do no wrong, the hundreds of thousands of dead don't matter. All that matters is that they feel good about themselves. No conscience, no internal monologue, no semblance of empathy, not one single critical thought or reflection on what they are actually doing or saying. When I heard about the mobilization starting in Russia; here I thought, surely the people that downplayed the Kiev government basically entrapping the entire male population of the country and forcing 4 waves of conscription upon them, the exodus of the female population, the massive amounts on film of men being beaten and dragged into conscription. Surely these people wouldn't fall for the cheap propaganda, the negative biases ect. and not humiliate their own intellect by not using the same mental gymnastics for this? We all know the answer to that. The sad part is that the most insecure among them will take that last sentence, ignore the entire post I made and reply with a low effort, twenty word shitpost about how they are right and I am wrong over the most menial and mundane semantics, along with a tiktok or twitter link as some kind of validation. So to get back on point, they feel safe in their box, nodding their heads as the same short validation posts come in, never hearing any other opinion besides what is served to them, anything that they can hear is carefully curated to be a strawman they can easily burn down and feel good about themselves. Now, everyone honestly is allowed to think and act how they please... but regrettably they feel they have the right to push and gloat over ruin and destruction because it makes them feel better. At the end of the day they don't care one bit about the people of Ukraine, they are peasants that need to be rounded up, given a pike, a tin hat, and sent to the 'boogieman of the day' front lines. Their place is to be pushed in front of their noble cavalry, dying for the interests of their lords and masters while they clap on. No number of dead Ukrainians is too small to complete their feat, no peace treaties can come in the way of their appeal to emotion fallacies. No one is above the enlightened Westerner, who sits in his minimalist flat in Copenhagen or Rotterdam eating organic vegan foods and drives a Tesla. People need to die so that this non-endangered class can feel special. Why wouldn't you want to die for this person? Maybe when that enlightened person feels the consequences of their actions, when their heaters run cold, when the deep sea internet cables get cut, when they run out of food. Maybe then they won't be so quick to call for blood, maybe then they will try diplomacy, maybe then they will get off their high horse and start being pragmatic about the World around them and compromise once in a while Maybe, just maybe they will stop seeing the people whose wealth they steal and enslave as subhumans not capable of forming their own opinions. Now, isn't that a radical thought? The West did not start the civil war in Syria. We also supported the democratic opposition fighting against a dictator butchering his own people and against Islamists. The West didn't start the civil war in Libya either. We sided with the lesser evil. Hardly something to hold against us. But let's be honest. You mentioned the 90's for a reason. You're just butthurt about the fact that NATO stopped Serbia from conducting another genocide. And are you seriously insinuating that the West is somehow forcing the Ukrainians to fight? lol We have accepted millions of Ukrainians into our homes, propped up their economy and helped their military with training and massive donations so that they could attain parity with Russia in an existential war. Meanwhile, Serbs have been busy manifesting their unreciprocated love for Russia, cheerleading another genocide. But it's us who, apparently, don't care about Ukrainians. I would've said that's rich coming from you, but there's nothing rich about Serbia. ;-) | ||
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Artesimo
Germany627 Posts
On September 29 2022 04:17 zeo wrote: I think its fairly obvious that nuclear powers have actively caused widespread destruction around the globe without the slightest care for international law since the 90s. Obviously this is wrong and there should be reforms put in place within international bodies to deter this. Though how effective they can be without a multipolar World is another matter. Replying to your first question. Over the past decade or so a sadistic streak and bloodlust has emerged among a privileged group of people that have grown accustomed to not being held accountable for their calls to war, poverty and destruction. These people deem to know what is best for all walks of life on the planet, and those that do not see the World as they - perfectly do - are dehumanized relentlessly to the point where this circle of people don't feel any shame when they openly grieve over jihadists not taking over Syria and enslaving its people. One does not think twice about the Mad Max style dystopian failed state Libya became after Gadaffi was murdered. In their eyes they can do no wrong, the hundreds of thousands of dead don't matter. All that matters is that they feel good about themselves. No conscience, no internal monologue, no semblance of empathy, not one single critical thought or reflection on what they are actually doing or saying. When I heard about the mobilization starting in Russia; here I thought, surely the people that downplayed the Kiev government basically entrapping the entire male population of the country and forcing 4 waves of conscription upon them, the exodus of the female population, the massive amounts on film of men being beaten and dragged into conscription. Surely these people wouldn't fall for the cheap propaganda, the negative biases ect. and not humiliate their own intellect by not using the same mental gymnastics for this? We all know the answer to that. The sad part is that the most insecure among them will take that last sentence, ignore the entire post I made and reply with a low effort, twenty word shitpost about how they are right and I am wrong over the most menial and mundane semantics, along with a tiktok or twitter link as some kind of validation. So to get back on point, they feel safe in their box, nodding their heads as the same short validation posts come in, never hearing any other opinion besides what is served to them, anything that they can hear is carefully curated to be a strawman they can easily burn down and feel good about themselves. Now, everyone honestly is allowed to think and act how they please... but regrettably they feel they have the right to push and gloat over ruin and destruction because it makes them feel better. At the end of the day they don't care one bit about the people of Ukraine, they are peasants that need to be rounded up, given a pike, a tin hat, and sent to the 'boogieman of the day' front lines. Their place is to be pushed in front of their noble cavalry, dying for the interests of their lords and masters while they clap on. No number of dead Ukrainians is too small to complete their feat, no peace treaties can come in the way of their appeal to emotion fallacies. No one is above the enlightened Westerner, who sits in his minimalist flat in Copenhagen or Rotterdam eating organic vegan foods and drives a Tesla. People need to die so that this non-endangered class can feel special. Why wouldn't you want to die for this person? Maybe when that enlightened person feels the consequences of their actions, when their heaters run cold, when the deep sea internet cables get cut, when they run out of food. Maybe then they won't be so quick to call for blood, maybe then they will try diplomacy, maybe then they will get off their high horse and start being pragmatic about the World around them and compromise once in a while Maybe, just maybe they will stop seeing the people whose wealth they steal and enslave as subhumans not capable of forming their own opinions. Now, isn't that a radical thought? I am very confused by the equating of russian and ukrainian mobilisation. I don't think many people will deny the fact that ukrainian mobilisation can be absolute horror for those mobilised and send to the frontline. But equating a desperate measure, taken by a state to ensure its survival, an effort which is also largely supported by its population it seems, to that of a state who uses it to keep up its aggression? That seems a far stretch. Ukraine doesn't want to cease to exist, a sentiment that seems to be shared by the majority of its population. Their measure of mobilisation is purely out of a situation they have been forced into by russia. Meanwhile, russian mobilisation is happening because russia chose to invade ukraine. Is there western aid that is motivated by beating russia rather than saving ukraine? Sure, but in doing that, it still supports what ukraine wants: to survive. By supporting ukrainian mobilisation, you are simply supporting ukraines right for self determination. They have formed their own opinion. The only country that forced ukraine to mobilise is russia, and supporting ukraine in their defence is supporting ukraines own will. You can start using the same criticism once ukraine is trying to negotiate peace, and people criticising it for it. According to my friend who lives close to the border, romania doesn't send back ukrainian males that make it over the border btw. At least in his village, police picks them up, issues them documents if needed and then they make it further west usually. Borderguards do have to refuse their entry because of rleations with ukraine I think, but on my quick google I have not found anything about ukrainian males being deported back to ukraine once they manage to get across. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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zeo
Serbia6343 Posts
On September 29 2022 04:47 maybenexttime wrote: The West did not start the civil war in Syria. We also supported the democratic opposition fighting against a dictator butchering his own people and against Islamists. The West didn't start the civil war in Libya either. We sided with the lesser evil. Hardly something to hold against us. But let's be honest. You mentioned the 90's for a reason. You're just butthurt about the fact that NATO stopped Serbia from conducting another genocide. And are you seriously insinuating that the West is somehow forcing the Ukrainians to fight? lol We have accepted millions of Ukrainians into our homes, propped up their economy and helped their military with training and massive donations so that they could attain parity with Russia in an existential war. Meanwhile, Serbs have been busy manifesting their unreciprocated love for Russia, cheerleading another genocide. But it's us who, apparently, don't care about Ukrainians. I would've said that's rich coming from you, but there's nothing rich about Serbia. ;-) Your first sentence is wrong, though your second sentence immediately contradicts your first sentence so I guess that evens it out. Same with your third and forth sentence. It's also confusing when you say the West and 'we/us' (Poland) in the same train of thought. Wasn't aware that Poland did anything but I will look into it. I don't know, might be satire based on my post mentioning low effort replies. Yes, the 90s was when the Warsaw pact collapsed and we entered a unipolar World. And we saw international law meant whatever the unipole felt it meant after that. The rest of your post is low effort bait and... yeah, good for you. On September 29 2022 04:56 JimmiC wrote: Basically nothing of what you have said is true. You do realize this right? Feel free to post some evidence of the bolded part, if not kindly just go away with the nonsense. The bolded part? Isn't this news that has been freely printed in all media since the start? The simplest Google search gave me this foreign policy article glancing over it it seems to cover everything https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/15/ukraine-war-conscription-martial-law-men-gender-human-rights/ Again, its kind of ironic that I write a post about how people aren't even thinking any more and just dismiss everything that doesn't fit and you answer with this. This is all news you have seen many times since March, it doesn't just stop existing because it hasn't been brought up in a while P.S. I'd just like to add that Artesimo posted something well thought out above with good points and I believe he actually wants to have a discussion, but it will take some time to answer and its late so I'll see if I can type it out tomorrow. Spoiler: it contains the Minsk II agreements, Zelensky's 28% approval rating at the end of last year and his election promises when he came to power. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Broetchenholer
Germany1967 Posts
On September 29 2022 04:17 zeo wrote: I think its fairly obvious that nuclear powers have actively caused widespread destruction around the globe without the slightest care for international law since the 90s. Obviously this is wrong and there should be reforms put in place within international bodies to deter this. Though how effective they can be without a multipolar World is another matter. Replying to your first question. Over the past decade or so a sadistic streak and bloodlust has emerged among a privileged group of people that have grown accustomed to not being held accountable for their calls to war, poverty and destruction. These people deem to know what is best for all walks of life on the planet, and those that do not see the World as they - perfectly do - are dehumanized relentlessly to the point where this circle of people don't feel any shame when they openly grieve over jihadists not taking over Syria and enslaving its people. One does not think twice about the Mad Max style dystopian failed state Libya became after Gadaffi was murdered. In their eyes they can do no wrong, the hundreds of thousands of dead don't matter. All that matters is that they feel good about themselves. No conscience, no internal monologue, no semblance of empathy, not one single critical thought or reflection on what they are actually doing or saying. When I heard about the mobilization starting in Russia; here I thought, surely the people that downplayed the Kiev government basically entrapping the entire male population of the country and forcing 4 waves of conscription upon them, the exodus of the female population, the massive amounts on film of men being beaten and dragged into conscription. Surely these people wouldn't fall for the cheap propaganda, the negative biases ect. and not humiliate their own intellect by not using the same mental gymnastics for this? We all know the answer to that. The sad part is that the most insecure among them will take that last sentence, ignore the entire post I made and reply with a low effort, twenty word shitpost about how they are right and I am wrong over the most menial and mundane semantics, along with a tiktok or twitter link as some kind of validation. So to get back on point, they feel safe in their box, nodding their heads as the same short validation posts come in, never hearing any other opinion besides what is served to them, anything that they can hear is carefully curated to be a strawman they can easily burn down and feel good about themselves. Now, everyone honestly is allowed to think and act how they please... but regrettably they feel they have the right to push and gloat over ruin and destruction because it makes them feel better. At the end of the day they don't care one bit about the people of Ukraine, they are peasants that need to be rounded up, given a pike, a tin hat, and sent to the 'boogieman of the day' front lines. Their place is to be pushed in front of their noble cavalry, dying for the interests of their lords and masters while they clap on. No number of dead Ukrainians is too small to complete their feat, no peace treaties can come in the way of their appeal to emotion fallacies. No one is above the enlightened Westerner, who sits in his minimalist flat in Copenhagen or Rotterdam eating organic vegan foods and drives a Tesla. People need to die so that this non-endangered class can feel special. Why wouldn't you want to die for this person? Maybe when that enlightened person feels the consequences of their actions, when their heaters run cold, when the deep sea internet cables get cut, when they run out of food. Maybe then they won't be so quick to call for blood, maybe then they will try diplomacy, maybe then they will get off their high horse and start being pragmatic about the World around them and compromise once in a while Maybe, just maybe they will stop seeing the people whose wealth they steal and enslave as subhumans not capable of forming their own opinions. Now, isn't that a radical thought? What are you even arguing for? Let's say we are all what you say we are, what are you? If we define ourselves by cheering for dead ukrainian males, entrapped by their government to die for our lifestyle, what is it that you want? And why is Poland suddenly not part of the West, despite being the most critical of the russian invasion and supporting Ukraine more then most other countries? How does the diplomacy look like that you call for? | ||
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pmh
1416 Posts
Big question for now seems to be how much Russia will try to anex. Will it be the whole oblasts including the parts they dont control or will it be the parts they do control (i would asume the first). | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14208 Posts
On September 29 2022 06:57 pmh wrote: Lots of info on tv here today about the outlook of the conflict. Not something to look forward to. Big question for now seems to be how much Russia will try to anex. Will it be the whole oblasts including the parts they dont control or will it be the parts they do control (i would asume the first). What do you mean by try to annex? They're currently losing the war and things are going to get much worse for them in the coming months. | ||
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