EPTThings Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 495
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Sent.
Poland9243 Posts
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Jankisa
Croatia880 Posts
The people who have contributed the most to the rise of anti-Semitism in the 21st century (you know, the one we live in) are Nethyanahu and his merry band of extremists, maybe if you focused on that instead of being focused on using many words to be bigoted it would be worth doing anything other then rolling eyes at you. | ||
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Billyboy
1226 Posts
On November 04 2025 21:33 Jankisa wrote: My point is that your "of course you would say that you are Polish" is more bigoted then anything that's been written in this thread is anti-Semitic. The people who have contributed the most to the rise of anti-Semitism in the 21st century (you know, the one we live in) are Nethyanahu and his merry band of extremists, maybe if you focused on that instead of being focused on using many words to be bigoted it would be worth doing anything other then rolling eyes at you. Except he never said what you are accusing him of, and I explained that to you. Hell his post is still here you could go read it again. @wombat, this was the BS I was trying to stop with a post that just explained what I hoped was a misinterpretation. And this is the major problem with this thread and bunch of people who like to pretend they are the victim and others are mean to them. Of course people are going to respond angrily when they are misrepresented in the most awful way and people continue to do it after being corrected. I often wonder how many of the angry crew on here would react if they actually read the words and not the really awful ones they make up. I can't even imagine what it is like in real life with spoken word, which is easier to mishear and you can't go back and check. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25977 Posts
On November 04 2025 14:12 Ze'ev wrote: He dismisses, with an eye roll, the idea that antisemitism could have a structural basis in Western culture while coming from a society with one of the deepest and most documented histories of pogroms, discrimination, complicity, and slaughter. It’s like a white southerner today mouth agape in shock at the mention of racism. I’m not criticizing him for being Polish, I’m pointing out that failing to recognize how cultural antecedents shape perception is exactly what implicit bias means. Poland’s history is steeped in the normalization of antisemitism, and today it remains one of the most antisemitic countries in Europe. Not noticing that doesn’t disprove its existence, it’s how it persists. The irony of him brushing off any mention of antisemitism while proving the point as he talks. That kind of disinterest, the lack of any real concern, is exactly how it slips by unnoticed. It doesn’t need to be loud or obvious to exist. Of course it isn’t obvious, implicit bias and normalization make prejudice feel expected, even natural. That is the whole point of deconstructing a culture shaped by white supremacy. The people who think it’s gone are the ones normalizing an insidious version of it. Oh come off it. I was talking about implicit and structural bias hidden in cultural tropes, and his response was that he “rolls his eyes” and tunes out anyone who mentions antisemitism. If you can read that and still claim he wasn’t dismissing it as a dead issue, you’re either not paying attention or you’re being deliberately obtuse. edit: This whole thread feels like a rerun of the early 2000s colorblind arguments. What do you mean there are white supremacist tropes in culture? I don’t see race! It’s bizarre how reactionary so many of you so-called progressives sound, recycling the same rhetoric that once belonged to the people you claim to oppose. Where do you live? Location can be quite critical to one’s take on this issue I would imagine. One can’t untether experiences and observations while attempting to look at one’s biases. You’ve got your day-to-day experiences, then above that, the vague political/media culture of where you reside. Which yes, outsiders can access, but generally aren’t subsumed in it or have it bleed in as would a native. And floating above all that is your kinda international, cosmopolitan internet. I think the latter is certainly a vector for all sorts of anti-Semitism, and it can show up almost anywhere. I was watching a video on the 90s FPS series Marathon that Bungie made before doing Halo, and you had some bloke rambling in the comments about the World Economic Forum and the Jews. It can crop up apropos of nothing, almost anywhere, kinda hard to avoid. And I’m sure for the multitude of people who scoff, dismiss or find it repugnant, there are people who start jumping down the anti-Semitism rabbit hole. I would presume people who live in more anti-Semitic environments generally would be more susceptible on average, but that’s a best guess. To those other layers, well I’ve feet in two countries, the UK and Ireland. In the UK, plenty of politicians, or prominent figures of the Jewish community frequently conflate criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism. Not always, but quite often fallaciously to the sensibilities of many. Which is also rather infuriating for many. It’s somewhat split on sentiment towards either side of this conflict. Across the country, the Muslim population is pretty sizeable, but it’s not distributed evenly, so you have areas where the Muslim population hold a lot of political sway. While on average the UK is reasonably down the middle, there are places where being anything other than pro-Palestine is political suicide. We’ve also seen an increase in recorded anti-Semitic hate crimes, presumably at least somewhat boosted by the feelings elicited by this current conflict. I think it’s fair to say this isn’t a good sign, although it may not indicate a broader rise in anti-Semitic views. The existing anti-Semites may be more driven to actually act, or perhaps people are more willing to report these acts and be taken seriously, or a combination thereof. Wherever the truth lies, it sure ain’t good if you’re Jewish, or indeed if you care about people not being subject to hate crimes. Ireland’s more monolithically pro-Palestine, although as I said previously it’s mostly viewed through a colonial analogue lens. Catholicism rules the roost at around 69% of people (nice), followed by no religion at 14%. There’s only about 2% Protestants in Ireland, slightly more than Orthodox Christians. Islam is approaching that range but isn’t quite there yet. Ireland’s Jewish population? About 2500-3000. I’d contend that while it appears counter-intuitive, having a population that small can actually insulate from bigotry. You’re simply too small and irrelevant a group, people may not even be aware of stereotypes that pertain to your group, be they positive or negative ones. Northern Ireland has much more religious tension precisely because it’s split basically 50/50 down the middle between Catholicism and Protestantism. It’s not all sunshine and rainbows of course. Ireland has, in my humble opinion been less bigoted than other European nations because of this, and not some superiority of culture. And many Irish think it is the latter and are quite complacent. We’re already seeing early echoes now of what we’ve seen elsewhere, as the numbers approach a certain threshold so too comes reactionary politics. Although, Jewish people aren’t going to be the target, but brown folks and especially Muslims. This is just going to differ elsewhere. Unless one goes full orthodox, or wears a kippah or yarmulke or whatever, or has a surname ending in ‘stein’, chances are most in the British isles wouldn’t pick up on any other signifiers that would denote Jewishness. It just wouldn’t register. They’d just be a white bloke or blokette, and part of the white privilege bloc. ‘Oh I didn’t know x was Jewish’ is a pretty common refrain. This would contrast a bit with the US, where you have a media tradition of prominent Jewish figures who are very overtly Jewish, and happy to own that. Not something we really have over here. Anyway getting into rambling territory, but that’s my broad-brush observation about certain attitudes and the background in my two vague locales. Anti-Islamic sentiment absolutely dwarfs anti-Semitism, it ain’t even close. One could extrapolate that out to Palestine but I think we just end up in the weeds. As indeed we do with anti-Semitism when it’s brought to the table a lot of the time around this subject. More broadly, when does an observation invoke a trope? And when does that spill into anti-Semitism? It’s why I have a problem with some of these anti-Semitism rankings, because it feels those lines end up getting blurred. I’ve got two blokes, Dave1 and Dave2, who are both Jewish. Dave is just living his life, isn’t super political but has his views as all of us do, he’s not a fan of Israel’s conduct in Gaza. Dave2 is massively into politics and his Jewish identity, defends Israel all the time and is planning to emigrate there with his family. Now, the trope that Jews are loyal to Jews versus whatever nation they’re in, historically has been a justification for atrocity, I doubt any here would dispute that. For me in this hypothetical, Dave2 is literally doing just that. The anti-Semite may go ‘Well Dave1 is secretly like that too, you know what Jews are like’ and I think that’s kind of the line in this hypothetical where observation and tropes move into bigoted territory, where the actual actions cease to matter, merely the identity. I had a brief scan of some of these surveys and I think the questions were a bit ambiguous at times, one could extrapolate multiple meanings from them. More broadly again, Israel is quite a sui generis entity to begin with. Attitudes will reflect that. I think we’re in an epoch where simultaneously you’re seeing a desire for ethno-nationalism in big chunks of Western populations, but where the other big chunk is vehemently opposed to such conceptions. Given Israel is basically explicitly that as a state, it’s only natural for the latter types to have issues there | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5654 Posts
On November 04 2025 14:12 Ze'ev wrote: He dismisses, with an eye roll, the idea that antisemitism could have a structural basis in Western culture while coming from a society with one of the deepest and most documented histories of pogroms, discrimination, complicity, and slaughter. It’s like a white southerner today mouth agape in shock at the mention of racism. I’m not criticizing him for being Polish, I’m pointing out that failing to recognize how cultural antecedents shape perception is exactly what implicit bias means. Poland’s history is steeped in the normalization of antisemitism, and today it remains one of the most antisemitic countries in Europe. Not noticing that doesn’t disprove its existence, it’s how it persists. The irony of him brushing off any mention of antisemitism while proving the point as he talks. That kind of disinterest, the lack of any real concern, is exactly how it slips by unnoticed. It doesn’t need to be loud or obvious to exist. Of course it isn’t obvious, implicit bias and normalization make prejudice feel expected, even natural. That is the whole point of deconstructing a culture shaped by white supremacy. The people who think it’s gone are the ones normalizing an insidious version of it. Oh come off it. I was talking about implicit and structural bias hidden in cultural tropes, and his response was that he “rolls his eyes” and tunes out anyone who mentions antisemitism. If you can read that and still claim he wasn’t dismissing it as a dead issue, you’re either not paying attention or you’re being deliberately obtuse. edit: This whole thread feels like a rerun of the early 2000s colorblind arguments. What do you mean there are white supremacist tropes in culture? I don’t see race! It’s bizarre how reactionary so many of you so-called progressives sound, recycling the same rhetoric that once belonged to the people you claim to oppose. Says the guy defending Israel, whose treatment of Palestinians is far worse than Poland's treatment of Jews. Quite ironic. ;-) | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25977 Posts
On November 04 2025 22:22 Billyboy wrote: Except he never said what you are accusing him of, and I explained that to you. Hell his post is still here you could go read it again. @wombat, this was the BS I was trying to stop with a post that just explained what I hoped was a misinterpretation. And this is the major problem with this thread and bunch of people who like to pretend they are the victim and others are mean to them. Of course people are going to respond angrily when they are misrepresented in the most awful way and people continue to do it after being corrected. I often wonder how many of the angry crew on here would react if they actually read the words and not the really awful ones they make up. I can't even imagine what it is like in real life with spoken word, which is easier to mishear and you can't go back and check. Who’s being misrepresented here and how? | ||
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Legan
Finland489 Posts
Israeli military's ex-top lawyer arrested over leak of video allegedly showing Palestinian detainee abuse | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia880 Posts
As she should have. That video of a cavity search has caused tremendous damage to Israel and contributed to the propaganda war in a significant way. This is how this incident was characterized by one of the designated propaganda posters I have tagged on Reddit. Whatever differences of opinion, even when it comes to what is moral and acceptable I have with people in this thread, no one has even came close to posting such blatant bullshit, so at least we have that going for us. | ||
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