EPTWill be interesting to see who's on the next republican ticket, probably won't be nearly as polarising as Trump.
2020 US Election - Page 90
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Dante08
Singapore4179 Posts
Will be interesting to see who's on the next republican ticket, probably won't be nearly as polarising as Trump. | ||
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KungKras
Sweden484 Posts
On November 04 2020 22:14 Gorsameth wrote: If Bernie can't convince the Democrats to vote for him, how on earth is going to win a general election? Will all the people that don't vote in primaries suddenly come out of the woodwork and vote? Sanders never had the chance to challenge a republican? He was always stopped by the elitist democrats Bernie was winning the primary comfortably until Obama made all his phonecalls and made the corporatist democrats coalesce around biden. While Warren stayed in to siphon off votes. Basically Sanders only lost because the other candidates made a titanic coordinated effort to take him down. | ||
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pmh
1416 Posts
A completely new direction that goes away from some of the issues of the traditional progressive ideology,a bit of a 3rd way. Progressive on healthcare,education,(racial and economic) equality,international cooperation. Conservative on christian values,(not to the point of beeing pro life and against gay mariage but more conservative then they are now),law and order,civil rights (gun control,constitution),foreign policy (conservative mostly when it comes to the middle east but at the same time progressive when it comes to international cooperation),immigration,climate change. The focus on climate change is one of the biggest things that is holding back the progressives from gaining widespread support,(another thing that is holding back the progressives is their stance on immigration in general,though that mostly goes for europe). If they want to succeed on other progressive issues then they should drop the progressive issues that are the least popular and that dont have widespread support. But doing so seems to be problematic for the progressives which is understandable to some degree as it is has become a big part of their identity. Which is why would propose a whole new type of platform that maybe best could be described as beeing progressive conservative,or conservative progressive. Which would be something like i described above. -Progressive on healthcare,education,(racial and economic) equality,international cooperation. -Conservative on christian values,law and order,civil rights,foreign policy (china and the middle east),immigration,climate change. In some ways this might look like a centric democratic platform but there are a few differences,slightly more progressive on healthcare education and equality then the centrist democratic platform and slightly more conservative on the other issues. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On November 04 2020 22:15 Biff The Understudy wrote: That's weird. Isn't Biden quite a heavy favourite right now? Or have I missed something? Changed at about 9am this morning. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On November 04 2020 22:26 Dante08 wrote: How is this election this close? The democrats definitely have to rethink their strategy after this election even if they win. All the media narratives like covid, blm, impeachment etc. and they barely take the election. Will be interesting to see who's on the next republican ticket, probably won't be nearly as polarising as Trump. This. Next time Democrats won’t have a Trump to face and The Next Biden will get fucking trounced if we go by the way this election turned out. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22493 Posts
On November 04 2020 22:24 Zambrah wrote: Does it say something about Biden (and Clinton) or does it say more about the American voter?Poised to win in a nailbiter against one of the most unbelievably terrible presidents in American history. This isn’t a win, this is a loss, even if Biden is president that it’s this close is a SHAMEFUL example of what should have been a slam dunk election being made close by relying on “flexible voters” instead of an Obama style campaign of enthusiasm. I'd wager you could run a chipmunk against Trump in many countries and the chipmunk would win in a landslide, especially after 4 years of Trump. I think the issue is much more the American voter then the candidate. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18721 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On November 04 2020 22:28 Gorsameth wrote: Does it say something about Biden (and Clinton) or does it say more about the American voter? I'd wager you could run a chipmunk against Trump in many countries and the chipmunk would win in a landslide, especially after 4 years of Trump. I think the issue is much more the American voter then the candidate. Blaming the voter doesn’t solve problems, improve the candidate. You aren’t going to change the average American voter, you have to appeal to them, if you keep tossing them candidates they don’t find appealing and saying, “hey it’s their fault for not voting for our candidate” you’re going to keep fucking losing. Stop. Blaming. Voters. It’s this incredible lack of introspection that makes me believe Democrats are hopeless. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9958 Posts
On November 04 2020 22:28 Gorsameth wrote: Does it say something about Biden (and Clinton) or does it say more about the American voter? I'd wager you could run a chipmunk against Trump in many countries and the chipmunk would win in a landslide, especially after 4 years of Trump. I think the issue is much more the American voter then the candidate. Should the democrats be trying to win over european voters instead? Of course its about American voters. Its about American voters and how the democrats failed to win them from Trump. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On November 04 2020 22:26 KungKras wrote: Bernie was winning the primary comfortably until Obama made all his phonecalls and made the corporatist democrats coalesce around biden. While Warren stayed in to siphon off votes. Basically Sanders only lost because the other candidates made a titanic coordinated effort to take him down. Would that matter if people overwhelmingly voted for Sanders though? | ||
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sharkie
Austria18721 Posts
On November 04 2020 22:28 Gorsameth wrote: Does it say something about Biden (and Clinton) or does it say more about the American voter? I'd wager you could run a chipmunk against Trump in many countries and the chipmunk would win in a landslide, especially after 4 years of Trump. I think the issue is much more the American voter then the candidate. You could also run the chipmunk against Hillary and Biden and the chipmunk would win in other countries. Maybe its the candidates after all? | ||
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farvacola
United States18866 Posts
On November 04 2020 22:28 sharkie wrote: I dont think anyone believes the democrats will change anything in the next 4 years? All they do is say how they are better than trump was Policy agenda and all that aside, I can tell you as a federal government employee that Democrats winning the White House will have a significant effect on the actual functioning of government bodies. | ||
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KungKras
Sweden484 Posts
On November 04 2020 22:28 Gorsameth wrote: Does it say something about Biden (and Clinton) or does it say more about the American voter? I'd wager you could run a chipmunk against Trump in many countries and the chipmunk would win in a landslide, especially after 4 years of Trump. I think the issue is much more the American voter then the candidate. It's definitely a side-effect of having the world's best education system by far in the 50:ies and then defunding it to nothingness over the following decades. Democracies rely on populations trained in critical thinking. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
On November 04 2020 22:28 sharkie wrote: I dont think anyone believes the democrats will change anything in the next 4 years? All they do is say how they are better than trump was That was Biden campaign message, literally. Nothing will fundamentally change. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46248 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18721 Posts
On November 04 2020 22:31 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: That was Biden campaign message, literally. Nothing will fundamentally change. What a great candidate | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27238 Posts
On November 04 2020 22:19 Zambrah wrote: Republicans don’t vote Democrat and vice versa. This idea that the primary winner is the best candidate for the general presupposes that Democrats will vote Republican for some reason. We’re seeing first hand that party allegiance in the US is infinitely stronger than labels like socialist or fucking fascist. Why can’t the primaries work like most other elections and be held on one day of voting? Momentum feeding into talk of electability seems massively exacerbated by quirks of the order of states, and rather distorts things when we factor in that some states aren’t even in play for a blue vote. A few statement victories benefitted Sanders in terms of that building of momentum as well. | ||
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KungKras
Sweden484 Posts
On November 04 2020 21:50 Gorsameth wrote: Yes progress policies are very popular but progress candidates often lose and people still vote Republican in elections. Looks like those policies are not what people are basing their vote on. There is a world of difference between what a person agrees with when he sits at home and what he cares about when he is standing in the voting booth as evident by people not voting based on these popular policies. This is kind of what I mean when I say progressives mistakenly think they are a majority. Yes their beliefs often poll at a majority approval, but people aren't voting based on that, as evident by the fact they aren't the primary or general election. (I don't know enough about down ballot votes to comment if the same trend is active there). I'd say that the two data points of people supporting the policies, but not voting for the candidates is pointing to the need to spread more information about who is for what policies. A giant opputunity to get better att getting the message out basically. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On November 04 2020 22:30 Jockmcplop wrote: Should the democrats be trying to win over european voters instead? Of course its about American voters. Its about American voters and how the democrats failed to win them from Trump. But Trump is running on hardline conservative social positions (and a lot of conservative economic positions too), and he's winning a lot of support on this despite his complete incompetence and ethical shortcomings. To justify the idea that a progressive would do better with the American electorate, you need to answer two things: 1) How would a hypothetical progressive candidate win some of these votes away from Trump? 2) If they didn't, are you only relying on increasing voter turnout to win? If so, how do you explain this election's record turnout still showing so much support for Trump? Do you think there's a realistic way to push turnout even higher than this to win with a progressive candidate? | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
As to whether Trump tries taking this to court or tries undermining the results, we'll have to wait and see. No, we really don't. It's not like he hasn't done one of those two things and announced the other even before counting started. | ||
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