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On November 08 2020 07:42 LegalLord wrote:If it’s not for corporate handouts, there simply aren’t enough trillions in the budget to afford something like getting rid of student debt. The money just isn’t there.
I feel like you're being sarcastic, but am not 100% sure. If Biden doesn't do it, the GOP candidate elected in 2024 will, debt be damned.
That's how much of a non starter the idea of not doing it is.
Unless you're from the US you don't really have an idea of just how badly the <40 crowd has been affected by US student loans. This on top of going through a great recession and covid, both of which are going to damage our long term earnings.
It is simply impossible to not cave to the biggest demand of the biggest voting bloc. Student debt was eventually going to be eliminated, that was obvious at least 8 years ago.
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Selfishly, I would greatly appreciate student loan debt being wiped. It wouldn't get me anywhere closer to buying a house but it would be pretty massive.
I'm not even close to making 50,000 a year and I anecdotally know others in the same boat so shrug. If it helps the middle class as well thats great.
I think higher education needs an overhaul... but why can't they both help future students and help former ones. This line of reasoning seems silly to me.
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On November 08 2020 07:47 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2020 07:43 Zambrah wrote:On November 08 2020 07:41 JimmiC wrote:First congrats. And second, yes help them too just not first. And yes there is more than 35% of the population in the US would be considered middle class. 13% are considered below the poverty line. The official poverty rate in 2018 was 11.8 percent, down 0.5 percentage points from 12.3 percent in 2017. This is the fourth consecutive annual decline in poverty. Since 2014, the poverty rate has fallen 3.0 percentage points, from 14.8 percent to 11.8 percent. The 2018 real median income of Asian households increased 4.6 percent from 2017 to $87,194, while the real median incomes of non-Hispanic White ($70,642), Black ($41,361), and Hispanic ($51,450) households were not statistically different from their 2017 medians (Figure 1 and Table A-1). Lots of great charts you can look at here. https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2019/demo/p60-266.html#:~:text=The official poverty rate in,14.8 percent to 11.8 percent. On November 08 2020 07:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On November 08 2020 07:32 JimmiC wrote:
Instantly back in the Paris Accord along with reinstituting all the protections Donald Trump got rid of would be a great start.
Biden has stated he plans to do that. awesome! Heres my question for you. How long do we have to wait where nothing is happening because youre busy pushing for things that require Republicans that will never work with you? Your method leads to NOTHING being accomplished, why is this better than things that are slightly less important actually being accomplished? Why is what I'm pushing for republicans need to work for and not what you are? And why are you so angry that I disagree with what you think should be first. I also think you might need some time of reflection, because you wanting your debt cleared up might be jading your view on what I am saying. It is why so many Bernie supporters led with it when they talked to people and why they did so bad with them.
I want to understand your position here. Here is a scenario: Biden pledges to introduce legislation to Congress to reduce the cost of college tuition and to cap how much the price can go up at yearly inflation. Biden also pledges to forgive all student loans via EO.
Would you rather Biden
A) Draft the legislation and immediately sign the EO.
B) Draft the legislation and not sign the EO until after the legislation is passed.
C) Not use EO and instead make the debt relief part of the legislation.
D) Something else I didn't mention here.
I am a progessive Bernie supporter in the US and, out of these options, I personally would choose either A) or D) (Forgive all loans via EO and make college free via legislation rather than reduce price and cap growth).
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The point isnt first or fifth choice in a vaccuum so much first or fifth choice within a hierarchy that puts anything EO >>>>>> anything Congressional.
The Democrats will absolutely use the line of reasoning that we have to focus on [virtually impossible thing] to the detriment of [easily possible thing they have full control over] in order to accomplish nothing, we can't let them.
I'm not 100% sure everything an EO can do either, but this thread has now confirmed forgiving student debt is one, I'm sure stuff related to the EPA can be done too, we should do that ASAP, we HAVE to push hard to make those things happen because if we're only talking healthcare we're not going to get anything done and then its going to be Republicans in power and its going to cause even more backslide.
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Can it be forgiven by EO? Maybe. It can definitely be indefinitely paused, though. You know how I know that? Trump did it through the end of the year already.
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On November 08 2020 07:52 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2020 07:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 08 2020 07:43 Zambrah wrote:On November 08 2020 07:41 JimmiC wrote:First congrats. And second, yes help them too just not first. And yes there is more than 35% of the population in the US would be considered middle class. 13% are considered below the poverty line. The official poverty rate in 2018 was 11.8 percent, down 0.5 percentage points from 12.3 percent in 2017. This is the fourth consecutive annual decline in poverty. Since 2014, the poverty rate has fallen 3.0 percentage points, from 14.8 percent to 11.8 percent. The 2018 real median income of Asian households increased 4.6 percent from 2017 to $87,194, while the real median incomes of non-Hispanic White ($70,642), Black ($41,361), and Hispanic ($51,450) households were not statistically different from their 2017 medians (Figure 1 and Table A-1). Lots of great charts you can look at here. https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2019/demo/p60-266.html#:~:text=The official poverty rate in,14.8 percent to 11.8 percent. On November 08 2020 07:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On November 08 2020 07:32 JimmiC wrote:
Instantly back in the Paris Accord along with reinstituting all the protections Donald Trump got rid of would be a great start.
Biden has stated he plans to do that. awesome! Heres my question for you. How long do we have to wait where nothing is happening because youre busy pushing for things that require Republicans that will never work with you? Your method leads to NOTHING being accomplished, why is this better than things that are slightly less important actually being accomplished? It's amazing how people that actually want the things so easily fall into this trap of coming up with endless excuses for why they can't get them. It's obvious imo that Democrats and Republicans do the "oh we'd give it to you if not for the other guys" because it allows them to ostensibly support things they have no actual will or desire to enact. I get why the politicians do it, I get why people who just want the cultural clout of supporting the stuff do it, I can't quite wrap my mind around people that genuinely want this stuff falling for the same scheme so consistently. Bunch of words that don't say anything congratulations! Now do you think forgiving student debt is the biggest issue and what Biden should do first?
Not "the biggest issue" but yes, it's something he could do day 1 (along with lots of other stuff that I don't think people would have a problem with being signed earlier in day 1 than eliminating student debt).
It'll be clear right away if he has any intention of enacting the stuff he has the power to do through the executive alone on day 1.
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We should make a list of what can be accomplished via EO and what has to go through Congress, I'm deeply curious about what I need to be demanding from Biden and what I can safely have no expectations for.
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On November 08 2020 07:42 LegalLord wrote:If it’s not for corporate handouts, there simply aren’t enough trillions in the budget to afford something like getting rid of student debt. The money just isn’t there.
Halve military budget and pay if off in one term?
At least Google says military spending is near 800 Billion and Debt a bit over 1.6 Trillion. Of course it would go into the term after since you are adding a bit too it each term. So 5-6 years of moving the budget focus from military to paying off old education.
Would probably be smarter to do it slower. But the money is there.
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On November 08 2020 08:13 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2020 07:42 LegalLord wrote:If it’s not for corporate handouts, there simply aren’t enough trillions in the budget to afford something like getting rid of student debt. The money just isn’t there. Halve military budget and pay if off in one term?
I believe that was sarcasm. 
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United States10399 Posts
On November 08 2020 08:13 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2020 07:42 LegalLord wrote:If it’s not for corporate handouts, there simply aren’t enough trillions in the budget to afford something like getting rid of student debt. The money just isn’t there. Halve military budget and pay if off in one term?
Jesus it's still insane how much our military budget is. If there's anything in our spending we cut first, it's our damn military. Who are we even fighting right now?
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On November 08 2020 08:09 Zambrah wrote:
We should make a list of what can be accomplished via EO and what has to go through Congress, I'm deeply curious about what I need to be demanding from Biden and what I can safely have no expectations for.
My (extremely swiss) pipe dream is that he does some national referendums into executive orders. That way stuff gets done and nobody can say that he's being authoritarian.
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Would the Drug War be tackled on a state level? After seeing so many states legalize/decriminalize so many drugs this election cycle, is the federal government super involved in that process compared to the states?
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Trump already stopped student loan payments. In doing so, that’s the absolute minimum Biden needs to do. Forgiveness, entirely, is the right call, but I think he’ll at least do 50k off the top. No matter what, people won’t be making student loan payments during Biden’s presidency
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On November 08 2020 08:09 Zambrah wrote:
We should make a list of what can be accomplished via EO and what has to go through Congress, I'm deeply curious about what I need to be demanding from Biden and what I can safely have no expectations for.
He can end Marijuana's classification as a Schedule I drug (the same classification given to Heroin, mind you).
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That doesnt require Congressional approval I take it?
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On November 08 2020 08:14 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2020 08:13 Yurie wrote:On November 08 2020 07:42 LegalLord wrote:If it’s not for corporate handouts, there simply aren’t enough trillions in the budget to afford something like getting rid of student debt. The money just isn’t there. Halve military budget and pay if off in one term? Jesus it's still insane how much our military budget is. If there's anything in our spending we cut first, it's our damn military. Who are we even fighting right now?
That is a good way to finance it as well. Don't fight the next war. Warfare since around Napoleonic era is fought by finances and resources. If you could afford keeping high tech available you will win the war. Problem is you now have a country that gives negative payback that you took loans to get.
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On November 08 2020 08:16 Zambrah wrote:
That doesnt require Congressional approval I take it?
I don't believe it does.
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EPT
