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Taken from http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=6&topic_id=45529
I've been prescribed 4 weeks of fluoxetine (prozac). I would like to hear stories from those who are experienced with this medication, and maybe include a brief background of your depression if possible. I've taken prozac before but quit after a week because I was feeling emotionally numb and apathetic. The doctor today said it was because I quit too soon. However he also told me prozac had "absolutely no side effects" which is obviously not true so I am not sure how he became a doctor.
I enjoyed this discussion about the validity of treating depression through medication. There are indeed neurological causes to clinical depression but the importance of their effect is uncertain. Furthermore various forms of couseling such as cognitive therapy have proven to be effective methods of treatment. Two particular antidepressant/placebo studies are quite unnerving.
http://journals.apa.org/prevention/volume1/pre0010002a.html
A 1998 study by Kirsch, Irving, a UConn psychologist who conducted 19 double-blind trials to find the placebo effect in all of them as high as 75% and "the correlation between placebo effect and drug effect [to be] .90," the result of which assuming the experiements were done correctly and all factors accounted for, signify that the effect of Prozac on patients tested is largely insignificant. (Insignificant in the general sense, not statistically)
http://www.namiscc.org/Research/2002/DrugEfficacy.htm
Fours years later, a report investigating studies submitted to the FDA by major drug companies for approval of antidepressants shows amazingly smiliar results. Six different antidepressants were used in "47 randomized placebo controlled short-term efficacy trials" only to have the placebo effect appear in 80% of the groups. This report, also by Dr. Irving Kirsch, details amazingly lackadaisical practices by the FDA in approving antidepressant drugs. Some excerpts:
"Although the FDA approved the drugs for "the treatment of depression" not otherwise specified, all but one of the clinical trials were conducted on patients described as moderately to severely depressed (their mean baseline Hamilton Depression Scale [HAM-D] scores ranged from 21.0 to 29.7)."
"In order to generalize the findings of the clinical trial to a larger patient population, FDA reviewers sought a completion rate of 70% or better for these typically 6-week trials. Only 4 of 45 trials, however, reached this objective."
"The use of other psychoactive medication was reported in 25 trials. In most trials, a chloral hydrate sedative was permitted in doses ranging from 500 mg to 2000 mg per day."
Thank god for the Freedom of Information Act.
Other studies :
http://www.mcmanweb.com/article-18.htm
There exist theories that attempt to explain the unusually high occurence of the placebo effect. I don't know what they are but I assume they involve underlining the ambiguity of depression leading to inconclusive results of those who were given the placebo and later being "cured". In whatever case, these published studies show the effectiveness of antidepressants as at the very least, controversial.
Apart from clinical studies, there have been thousands (wiki) of lawsuits against drug companies over the effects of antidepressants. One case involving a serial killer, Joyce Fentress, et al. v Shea Communications et al or the Fentress Case
http://www.lectlaw.com/filesh/zbk03.htm
was undone by highly unethical and shady conduct on the side of Eli Lilly, the drug company that produces Prozac. On September 14, 1989, Joseph Wesbecker, who was severely depressed and had been taking Prozac for a month, a new antidepressant drug on the market, brought an AK-47 to work, shot and killed 8 of his fellow employees, wounded 12, and committed suide by shooting himself in the head after. Halfway through the ensuring trial, Chief plaintiffs' counsel Paul Smith asked oddly to withhold important evidence against Eli Lilly after repeatedly asking to present the same evidence previously. The information detailed another case that involved the drug Oraflex. Eli Lilly pleaded guilty to misreporting detrimental side effects of the drug that eventually led to four deaths and a court order to withdraw Oraflex from the market. Smith, it was later revealed in a Supreme Court investigation, secretly agreed to a "tremedous" settlement with Eli Lilly during a courtroom break moments after the judge allowed his request to present his evidence. After ruling the case in favor of Eli Lilly, Judge Potter appealed to the Supreme Court over his own decision. He won his case unanimously. However before any ruling was reached, Judge Potter signed a document declaring the case settled. A very bizzare turn of events that may never be fully explained but certainly involve more shady conduct from Eli Lilly.
Not surprisingly, after finding all of this out I am appalled by the unethical behavior of drug companies. I might still take the prozac to see what effect it has, but if it doesn't work after a month I am becoming rachel weisz in the constant gardner and dedicating my life to uncovering and exposing dirty scandals perpetrated by giant pharmaceutical companies all over the world.
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![[image loading]](http://blogs.sun.com/rama/resource/calvin-ritalin.jpg)
Does your diet still consist of a healthy intake of adderall and other stimulants?
edit: Anyways, it's really your call - which is nice since you appear to be doing a lot of research on the subject. But for what it's worth, don't be too shocked in the doctor's uneven behavior. I've had doctors prescribe me medication before and openly speak of the benefits while not disclosing a single side-effect. It's pretty irresponsible, but maybe they have something to gain by handing out pills by the handful.
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<3 placebo!
whatever makes you feel better!! ^^;
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
over-prescription and unnecessary prescription of psych meds is rampant and psych misdiagnoses are far too prevalent.. I would guess half the people diagnosed with bipolar disorder or depression don't actually have it, same or worse goes for ADD, ADHD, GAD etc.. some "disorders" are just descriptive collections of symptoms without scientific proof of any specific pathology (like ADD) etc.. psychiatry is still far from a science, and most of its treatment fall under the voodoo category..
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I'm gonna bump this because I actually did research and took a long time to write it
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i take it and it helps, but i am not really on a regular schedule. I just take it whenever i feel like i need it, and that is usually like a couple times a week. Usually if i get depressed i just smoke weed, but if thats unavailable, its time for the 'zac attack. I have never noticed side effects myself, hell i barely notice the drug at all. The only thing it does is like make me less iritable (which does help a lot i must add) and prevents me from getting to angry about some annoying shit.
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I would tend to think Weed ain't the best remedy out there when you are depressive.
Its like Freud trying to cure hysterical women and depressive males with pure cocaine -_-. Well, he believed it worked --
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8751 Posts
i was on prozac and then switched to fluoxetine (the generic brand) to save money. i started at 20mg and went up to 40mg and stayed there. it helped in my first episode depression and i had no bad side effects, except that i just felt weird. i felt somehow artificial as though the way i was acting wasnt who i really was. i didnt stay on it for the recommended length (you are supposed to stay on it for 6-12 months after you feel 100% better). i felt better and only stayed on for a few more months then i cut it off cold even though you are supposed to taper it off. so the chance i'd have another episode of depression was high, and sure enough...
in my 2nd episode, i got back on 20mg of fluoxetine for one month, then switched to 40mg. but even after waiting long enough for the full effect to take place, i did not feel like my symptoms were going away. i was, however, feeling side effects. nausea, dizziness, headaches. also i was feeling suicidal, and one day in particular i was heavily contemplating. i was alone, had a plan of how to do it and the equipment in preparation, etc. but i couldnt do it. i cut the fluoxetine off cold again and am gonna see another psychiatrist soon to try some other meds.
i've basically given up any expectations of explanation from psychiatrists about mental health. like Physician says, mental health is so unscientific right now that it's ridiculous. patients don't know how to describe their own symptoms, doctors don't know how to diagnose, most of the prescription drugs aren't even understood. what i mean by that is that they simply notice that certain drugs seem to help certain symptoms and don't have significantly dangerous side effects, so they just dish them out. how it all works is still very poorly understood. the way my doctors and therapists have talked to me, it seems that they dont understand how it feels to be me at all. hmm getting off topic ~_~
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over-prescription and unnecessary prescription of psych meds is rampant and psych misdiagnoses are far too prevalent.. I would guess half the people diagnosed with bipolar disorder or depression don't actually have it, same or worse goes for ADD, ADHD, GAD etc.. some "disorders" are just descriptive collections of symptoms without scientific proof of any specific pathology (like ADD) etc.. psychiatry is still far from a science, and most of its treatment fall under the voodoo category..
Right on the point.
Its mainly a money thing in general, especially in schools where students HAVE to take it or else they can be kicked out of the school. Another thing is that a lot of those drugs mess up the mind so when u stop taking it you are messed up from taking it(thus psych's tell u to keep taking it).
Vicious circle.
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do you think fluxotine influenced your suicidal feelings? When you first took the drug how long did you stay on it for
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8751 Posts
i have no idea if it influenced my suicidal feelings. i was on it for 9 months the first time. i think 3 months at 20 and 6 months at 40
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There are a lot of documented cases of prozac and similar antidepressants causing increased suicidal thoughts and behavior in people taking them. Search your int3rne7s if you're curious.
We're dealing with something people don't understand using something that people don't know how it works. I don't think it's irrational to expect unpredictable results.
edit: your thread inspired a blog postzor.
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Went to my doctor today about anxiety today, she prescribed me prozac. It made me feel very tired and dizzy.. I just woke up from a nap since 5 pm.. (8:21pm est now)
Wtf am I putting in my body? I don't want to be a zombie.
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Interesting necro but worthy of discussion nonetheless
I've recently been prescribed citalopram after failing to self cure myself for the last 2 years - nothing significantly wrong with my life, everything is going well for me, i have a fantastic family, career, money, uni life, health etc.etc. but i cant help feel completely and utterly depressed all the time
Ive been on it for just over 2 months on 10mg, not much effect, so my dose got increased to 20mg recently.
Been feeling a bit better, but mainly due to less pressure in work now my internship is ending/over and i wouldn't attribute it to any drug
I havnt felt it affect my mood in any way that i can attribute to the drug, nor have i experienced it "numbing" any emotions
The only thig i noticed was a massive decrease in sex drive, but that kinda stopped after about 1.5 months in, and i guess its just part of the depression.
Don't really know what to do nowadays, i just ignore the problem as much as i can
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SSRI's can cause loss of libido. They take around 4-6 weeks to reach effect. I would suggest that mid-day napping can make you tired also.
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SSRI's are absolutely terrible. They're barely understood other than that they have been shown to effect levels of serotonin. That's it. Your brain is controlled by a very delicate chemical balance. I have seen several of my friends become completely different people after being placed on SSRI's, and these guys are my tripping buddies. We've done everything under the sun and always came out sane, but now that they've both been on SSRI's for a couple months they're completely different people.
It's like that propaganda about weed: It makes them lazy and useless. They have no ambition and care little for their lives anymore.
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Don't take Prozac or any other SSRI. They will fuck you up. The whole "depression is a chemical imbalance" thing is a myth.
Smoke weed if you're feeling depressed. Or try finding things you like to do.
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I'll add a quick 2 cents from a medical point of view:
Many side effects reported here are transient: nausea, insomnia, headache and the likes. Exceptions do occur longer (NonY), but generally it's easier to tailor antidepressants around side effect profiles instead of efficacy. Newer SSRIs like Celexa/ Lexapro have been noted to have less interactions and adverse effects. However you can't escape a limp noodle with SSRIs. That usually stays for the course of the med unless you switch to another class of ADs (Wellbutrin, non-serotonin drugs)
The notion that the mind is mysterious and should not be altered is definitely a valid concern. However, that does not mean mean we need to set a caution tape around pharmacotherapy. We are learning new things each year as seen in the newer formulations of SSRIs and psychoactive meds (greater efficacy, more favorable side effect profiles). Basic and clinical science recognize SSRIs are something more than just a 'serotonergic black hole.'
For example, the bio-psycho-social mechanism behind Prozac increasing suicide has since been clarified and accepted in the medical community: depression hits on various axis of behavior-- sleep, motivation, concentration, initiative and suicidality. However with treatment, suicidality is usually the last to go. Take a guess what usually happens to someone with enhanced motivation, concentration and initiative but still is suicidal? That is why now any competent physician evaluates suicidal ideation and social support before and after starting any antidepressants. In fact, it is even a clinical guideline in PCPs to follow-up within 2 weeks after starting a regimen.
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had anxiety problems, doctor gave me SSRI. took it for 2-3 months, made me a zombie even though i tried my best to be outgoing and whatnot. Don't even risk it. I already solved it by doing cardio everyday, helps me think more clear and worry less about my lifes problems (college, girlfriend, family at home, etc).
I HIGHLY, and repeat HIGHLY, do not approve of citalopram. FUCK. THAT. GUYS. don't risk it please, id rather see people smoke marijuana honestly, as bad as it sounds. Those are your brain chemicals you are fucking with, it can increase your depression or anxiety and you wont know it til one day shit hits the fan and you'll be out of your mind but you'll argue your reason behind putting a knife to your throat and actually make yourself BELIEVE you are right, and wont be able to step outside your shoes. its a horrible thing, fck ssri's
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Prozac is like, government approved cocaine, or so I heard.
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EPT
