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On November 06 2022 06:19 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 06:13 Magic Powers wrote:
Those who are without sin cast the first stone.
BJ you're not an angel, you also get things wrong in very similar ways, and not just on rare occasions. And I have yet to see you admit to even a single instance of that. Are you really holding others to a higher standard than you do yourself? Not even a single instance of admitting I was wrong? Not even this one a whole 2 pages ago? Show nested quote +On November 03 2022 18:35 BlackJack wrote:
and just fyi I was also theorizing about herd immunity in early 2020 so I was just as wrong as everyone else and my post didn't imply otherwise. That's just another thing you invented in your head.
I must've completely forgot those two times when you admitted that you either lied about or otherwise misrepresented my position.
I guess the only thing that matters is predictions, not truthfulness.
Edit (since my sarcasm apparently wasn't as obvious as I had thought it was): my first sentence in this comment is sarcasm. I was trying to convey that BJ did not admit that he misrepresented my position on either of the two occasions.
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On November 06 2022 05:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 05:44 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 05:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 06 2022 04:43 BlackJack wrote:On November 05 2022 21:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 05 2022 21:05 BlackJack wrote:
“Do you still believe we can achieve herd immunity against COVID and virtually eliminate it from our schools the way we have chicken pox and measles, or...? What?“
“Yes.”
What am I missing…? He clarifies in the other post you cited: "Again no one but the anti-vax crowd thinks that people are saying that covid will be totally eliminated." I understood that pair of his posts to mean that covid would no longer be a real issue in schools if everyone were vaccinated (since everyone would have increased resistance and temporary decreases in infection rates thanks to covid boosters, similar to an annual flu shot). I may be misinterpreting what he meant, but I don't think he means that covid would permanently disappear (and if he does actually mean that, then I would disagree with him). Like I said to WombaT, there is a huge different between a disease being completely eradicated off the face of the earth and being “virtually eliminated” in schools. The fact that he said the former doesn’t imply that he didn’t mean to say the latter as well. Secondly, even if you want to interpret his comments in the most charitable way possible they are still wrong as evidenced by the the examples I’ve given of Cornell having 900 cases in 1 week despite the e entire student body being fully vaccinated. Maybe 900 cases in one week is how ya’ll want to define “virtually eliminated.” Sure, but none of us know what the disease will look like five or ten years from now, or how effective the vaccines/medication will be five or ten years from now. He could absolutely be wrong, but right now it's optimism regarding a hypothetical future. The 900 cases situation might not be a recurring theme forever. Nothing in his post implies that he is talking an optimist position in the future. He literally says "Yes [COVID can be virtually eliminated in schools]. That's what people were saying in 2020 and that's what they are saying NOW (emphasis mine). Oh he really meant that COVID can be eliminated from schools if they invent a new vaccine 5 years from now that works even better!!! Is this really your interpretation of his post? The desperate attempts to invent alternate explanations for his very clear and concise post just proves my point. You asked him if he thinks herd immunity can be reached and if covid can be eliminated. I understood that to mean "eventually", as opposed to "right this second" or "this year" or any other specific deadline. Him saying Yes is definitionally optimistic, since he wants covid to disappear. He may end up being wrong - that covid will persist forever - but that doesn't mean he's not being optimistic and it doesn't mean the question isn't about the future. Him answering in 2022 ("NOW") doesn't mean he thinks that herd immunity will be reached in 2022 lol.
it wont be eliminated even eventually, so whats the point of giving sermokala the benefit of the doubt? either way its a stupid position to take and debating against it is a waste of time.
you shouldnt have to undergo mental gymnastics to sugarcoat a stupid position as "optimism"
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On November 06 2022 06:08 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 05:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 06 2022 05:44 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 05:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 06 2022 04:43 BlackJack wrote:On November 05 2022 21:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 05 2022 21:05 BlackJack wrote:
“Do you still believe we can achieve herd immunity against COVID and virtually eliminate it from our schools the way we have chicken pox and measles, or...? What?“
“Yes.”
What am I missing…? He clarifies in the other post you cited: "Again no one but the anti-vax crowd thinks that people are saying that covid will be totally eliminated." I understood that pair of his posts to mean that covid would no longer be a real issue in schools if everyone were vaccinated (since everyone would have increased resistance and temporary decreases in infection rates thanks to covid boosters, similar to an annual flu shot). I may be misinterpreting what he meant, but I don't think he means that covid would permanently disappear (and if he does actually mean that, then I would disagree with him). Like I said to WombaT, there is a huge different between a disease being completely eradicated off the face of the earth and being “virtually eliminated” in schools. The fact that he said the former doesn’t imply that he didn’t mean to say the latter as well. Secondly, even if you want to interpret his comments in the most charitable way possible they are still wrong as evidenced by the the examples I’ve given of Cornell having 900 cases in 1 week despite the e entire student body being fully vaccinated. Maybe 900 cases in one week is how ya’ll want to define “virtually eliminated.” Sure, but none of us know what the disease will look like five or ten years from now, or how effective the vaccines/medication will be five or ten years from now. He could absolutely be wrong, but right now it's optimism regarding a hypothetical future. The 900 cases situation might not be a recurring theme forever. Nothing in his post implies that he is talking an optimist position in the future. He literally says "Yes [COVID can be virtually eliminated in schools]. That's what people were saying in 2020 and that's what they are saying NOW (emphasis mine). Oh he really meant that COVID can be eliminated from schools if they invent a new vaccine 5 years from now that works even better!!! Is this really your interpretation of his post? The desperate attempts to invent alternate explanations for his very clear and concise post just proves my point. You asked him if he thinks herd immunity can be reached and if covid can be eliminated. I understood that to mean "eventually", as opposed to "right this second" or "this year" or any other specific deadline. Him saying Yes is definitionally optimistic, since he wants covid to disappear. He may end up being wrong - that covid will persist forever - but that doesn't mean he's not being optimistic and it doesn't mean the question isn't about the future. Him answering in 2022 ("NOW") doesn't mean he thinks that herd immunity will be reached in 2022 lol. So first you say "I understood that pair of his posts to mean that covid would no longer be a real issue in schools if everyone were vaccinated" and I point out that COVID is still an issue even in schools where everyone is vaccinated. Then you interpret his post as COVID being eliminated in schools in some distant future where we have different and better vaccines. (all while nothing about the post indicates we're talking about the future.) Funny how your interpretation of his post just keeps changing. I'm sure it just slipped your mind to bring up this 2nd interpretation in your 1st post. It's not just that you're inventing them as you go in a desperate attempt to explain away his ridiculous claim.
Herd immunity is not just everyone in a school being vaccinated lol. You realize that people inside of schools eventually interact with people outside of schools too, right? When you asked about herd immunity, and then pivoted to "well this specific school was fully vaccinated, and covid still found a way inside", those are not the same things. We are not currently at herd immunity, even if you found a school that is fully vaccinated, so the only time it makes sense to speak about herd immunity would be in the future. In fact, we'd probably need boosters that reduce infection rates for significantly longer than they do now, so we'd absolutely be talking about a scenario in the future, and not your example of a current school.
On November 06 2022 06:53 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 05:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 06 2022 05:44 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 05:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 06 2022 04:43 BlackJack wrote:On November 05 2022 21:24 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 05 2022 21:05 BlackJack wrote:
“Do you still believe we can achieve herd immunity against COVID and virtually eliminate it from our schools the way we have chicken pox and measles, or...? What?“
“Yes.”
What am I missing…? He clarifies in the other post you cited: "Again no one but the anti-vax crowd thinks that people are saying that covid will be totally eliminated." I understood that pair of his posts to mean that covid would no longer be a real issue in schools if everyone were vaccinated (since everyone would have increased resistance and temporary decreases in infection rates thanks to covid boosters, similar to an annual flu shot). I may be misinterpreting what he meant, but I don't think he means that covid would permanently disappear (and if he does actually mean that, then I would disagree with him). Like I said to WombaT, there is a huge different between a disease being completely eradicated off the face of the earth and being “virtually eliminated” in schools. The fact that he said the former doesn’t imply that he didn’t mean to say the latter as well. Secondly, even if you want to interpret his comments in the most charitable way possible they are still wrong as evidenced by the the examples I’ve given of Cornell having 900 cases in 1 week despite the e entire student body being fully vaccinated. Maybe 900 cases in one week is how ya’ll want to define “virtually eliminated.” Sure, but none of us know what the disease will look like five or ten years from now, or how effective the vaccines/medication will be five or ten years from now. He could absolutely be wrong, but right now it's optimism regarding a hypothetical future. The 900 cases situation might not be a recurring theme forever. Nothing in his post implies that he is talking an optimist position in the future. He literally says "Yes [COVID can be virtually eliminated in schools]. That's what people were saying in 2020 and that's what they are saying NOW (emphasis mine). Oh he really meant that COVID can be eliminated from schools if they invent a new vaccine 5 years from now that works even better!!! Is this really your interpretation of his post? The desperate attempts to invent alternate explanations for his very clear and concise post just proves my point. You asked him if he thinks herd immunity can be reached and if covid can be eliminated. I understood that to mean "eventually", as opposed to "right this second" or "this year" or any other specific deadline. Him saying Yes is definitionally optimistic, since he wants covid to disappear. He may end up being wrong - that covid will persist forever - but that doesn't mean he's not being optimistic and it doesn't mean the question isn't about the future. Him answering in 2022 ("NOW") doesn't mean he thinks that herd immunity will be reached in 2022 lol. it wont be eliminated even eventually, so whats the point of giving sermokala the benefit of the doubt? either way its a stupid position to take and debating against it is a waste of time. you shouldnt have to undergo mental gymnastics to sugarcoat a stupid position as "optimism"
It took a very long time for diseases like smallpox to become eradicated, so I think it's a bit premature to say that it'll be impossible to neutralize covid after merely 2-3 years of medical research. How do you know that "it wont be eliminated even eventually"?
Also, the one doing "mental gymnastics" is BlackJack, at least in his conversation with me right now, as he's trying to insist that my interpretation of a response is necessarily wrong, because I'm apparently not allowed to consider hypothetical scenarios in the future - only in the present. Like, I'm sorry, but contextualizing those statements as happening in the future makes more sense to me than thinking they're about the present, because they're clearly not applicable to the present.
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how many diseases do you know that humanity has successfully eradicated compared to the number of diseases present?
were not even close to eradicating somwhat similar diseases such as the common cold or the flu. its ridiculous to assume that covid vaccine mandates would get us anywhere near the result of total eradication.
if serms reasoning for pushing for covid vaccine mandates is because of some underlying belief that eradication is possible then he would be wrong. thats not optimism, its stupidity.
also i saw a bunch of posts earlier about making the correct decisions with the information available at the time. even if by some miracle we find that we are able to eradicate covid 5 years later, at the moment we dont have any indication as to that being possible and so should not take measures pretending like it is.
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On November 06 2022 08:08 evilfatsh1t wrote:
how many diseases do you know that humanity has successfully eradicated compared to the number of diseases present?
were not even close to eradicating somwhat similar diseases such as the common cold or the flu. its ridiculous to assume that covid vaccine mandates would get us anywhere near the result of total eradication.
if serms reasoning for pushing for covid vaccine mandates is because of some underlying belief that eradication is possible then he would be wrong. thats not optimism, its stupidity.
also i saw a bunch of posts earlier about making the correct decisions with the information available at the time. even if by some miracle we find that we are able to eradicate covid 5 years later, at the moment we dont have any indication as to that being possible and so should not take measures pretending like it is.
You're conflating two different things here: pushing for current vaccine mandates vs. a future scenario where vaccines are more advanced and more successful at eradicating covid. The conversation I'm having with BlackJack isn't about the former; it's about whether or not the latter is hypothetically possible, and I can't say with certainty that it's impossible. I think it's unlikely, but not so unlikely that I would yell at Serm for optimistically hoping that such a thing could happen.
Also, for what it's worth, my main reason for thinking we wouldn't ever eradicate covid (or some other infectious diseases) is because of the lack of faith I have in humanity to do what's best for themselves and their neighbors, not because of my lack of faith in scientific/medical research. Even if they found a guaranteed cure to the common cold, or the flu, or covid - assuming, say, 90% of Americans took that magic pill - I would be pretty surprised if enough people would actually take it. That's my main reason for not being at Serm's level of optimism.
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On November 05 2022 00:06 Sermokala wrote:
Again no one but the anti-vax crowd thinks that people are saying that covid will be totally eliminated. And replace covid with a host of other diseases that we've done the same with pretty much without issue and yeah.
I disagree, anti-wax people are not saying that, you were imo. Reinforced with the next sentence. Earlier you were talking about other diseases we have gotten "rid of" with medicine, just to counter BJ's argument which was totally fine.
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On November 06 2022 08:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2022 00:06 Sermokala wrote:
Again no one but the anti-vax crowd thinks that people are saying that covid will be totally eliminated. And replace covid with a host of other diseases that we've done the same with pretty much without issue and yeah.
I disagree, anti-wax people are not saying that, you were imo. Reinforced with the next sentence. Earlier you were talking about other diseases we have gotten "rid of" with medicine, just to counter BJ's argument which was totally fine.
No he's literally doing that right now. Just read any of his posts. He doesn't understand how herd immunity works and seems greatly confused on why every kid gets vaccines before going to school. He's stun locked on not being able to imagine a world where kids grow up and aren't going to school anymore. He constantly frames the argument about kids in school without being able to understand that there are adults in schools somehow and also there are adults where kids go when they're not in school.
I was taking about other vaccines that bj got when he was a kid and I was asking him if he understood why he got them. He decided to interpret that as I think that if we just got kids vaccinated everything would be magical rainbows.
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I don't think that's what he is saying but i might be wrong.
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On November 06 2022 04:34 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 02:51 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 01:52 Fleetfeet wrote:
Is "Vaccine mandates should be taken on a case-by-case system, and I don't agree with Covid vaccine mandates currently" a fundamentally different answer than the one you provided? Personally, they seem very similar. Those aren't the two answers that are being constructed but one is stating that decisions are made. Everything is done on a case-by-case basis from suns deciding to blow up or not to plants deciding to keep growing or slow down on growing. Its the most complete deflection of "I don't need to answer your question because I have stated that I answer questions". The other is stating why you are making your decision in this case. aka showing that you have any sort of free thoughts going on in your head or awareness that there is a world around you in any way. BJ continuously fails to show this because he knows how his answer will make him look. Hes now trapped even more because I've shown him a rational and simple answer he could have provided at any point this whole time. But we all know he can't even take the rational out because his grievance-based approach wouldn't let him. Its getting to the point where people are going to have to make arguments for him because they pity him for not being able to do it themselves. I expected that to be where your response would go, and understand BJ's frustration in being completely unheard. He's provided a 'why' as well, but you're not arguing against that "why". He's mentioned statistics involving schools having failed to virtually eliminate covid-19 despite 99% vaccination rates. He's mentioned myocarditis or some shit as a side effect of the vaccine. He's provided WHYs, and rather than continuing to attack his WHYs for whatever weakness they have, you've constructed a strawman BJ and continue to attack that. It just feels unproductive. We've been spinning our wheels in this 'argument' for pages upon pages, and your 'simple question' isn't as robust as you think it is.
If he was frustrated about being unheard or had a why he was confident in he would be able to say those reasons so people could hear it.
He doesn't like repeating them because we've shown how they're dumb and he doesn't like feeling dumb. Vaccination doesn't stop you from getting covid that isn't the point of vaccinations. He's mentioned side effects from the vaccine and was shown how the rates of heart inflammation is much worse when you get covid without the vaccine.
It does feel unproductive because you can't have good faith conversations with someone who refuses to conversate in good faith. When he gets cornered he desperately tries to reframe the argument in a way he can present a gotcha to try and hide him getting exposed so often.
I don't think we're spinning wheels. His squirmy struggles against basic concepts and information is pretty entertaining honestly. Once you get the pattern down you can figure out that what he's stuck on and can't figure out how to answer " why do you think you got vaccinated for whooping cough as a kid?". He understands when he loses at something and has to go out to Facebook to find his next gotcha. Once you put any pressure to the things he says you find out just how little there is inside it.
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On November 06 2022 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't think that's what he is saying but i might be wrong.
And I can admit that I might be wrong about what he's saying. After six years of having to live with trump lovers you start to see patterns and I really might just be seeing things. But as they say if it quacks like a duck and and looks like a duck.
I'm considering just going full antivax in December just to prove a point and giving people a change of pace to see someone argue pro covid in good faith.
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On November 06 2022 09:36 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't think that's what he is saying but i might be wrong. And I can admit that I might be wrong about what he's saying. After six years of having to live with trump lovers you start to see patterns and I really might just be seeing things. But as they say if it quacks like a duck and and looks like a duck. I'm considering just going full antivax in December just to prove a point and giving people a change of pace to see someone argue pro covid in good faith.
As in any way you see things noone is really arguing "pro-covid". I kind of agree with some things with BJ and i agree some things with you (i have been following this thread quite a while).
I dont know what Trump has anything to do with this, if Americans are too dumb to believe some stupid people over smart people then i can't help you, but from what i have seen this discussion especially within American people is kinda... i don't know, sad? 
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On November 06 2022 08:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 08:08 evilfatsh1t wrote:
how many diseases do you know that humanity has successfully eradicated compared to the number of diseases present?
were not even close to eradicating somwhat similar diseases such as the common cold or the flu. its ridiculous to assume that covid vaccine mandates would get us anywhere near the result of total eradication.
if serms reasoning for pushing for covid vaccine mandates is because of some underlying belief that eradication is possible then he would be wrong. thats not optimism, its stupidity.
also i saw a bunch of posts earlier about making the correct decisions with the information available at the time. even if by some miracle we find that we are able to eradicate covid 5 years later, at the moment we dont have any indication as to that being possible and so should not take measures pretending like it is. You're conflating two different things here: pushing for current vaccine mandates vs. a future scenario where vaccines are more advanced and more successful at eradicating covid. The conversation I'm having with BlackJack isn't about the former; it's about whether or not the latter is hypothetically possible, and I can't say with certainty that it's impossible. I think it's unlikely, but not so unlikely that I would yell at Serm for optimistically hoping that such a thing could happen. Also, for what it's worth, my main reason for thinking we wouldn't ever eradicate covid (or some other infectious diseases) is because of the lack of faith I have in humanity to do what's best for themselves and their neighbors, not because of my lack of faith in scientific/medical research. Even if they found a guaranteed cure to the common cold, or the flu, or covid - assuming, say, 90% of Americans took that magic pill - I would be pretty surprised if enough people would actually take it. That's my main reason for not being at Serm's level of optimism.
No, we’re not having a “conversation” here about some hypothetical scenario in the future. That’s the ridiculous interpretation you wanted to invent to explain away Serm’s post where he said we could virtually eliminate COVID in schools the same way we have chicken pox and measles. The 2nd interpretation you invented. I’m not participating in this conversation, I’m simply trying to determine if you’ve completely lost your mind or if you have so little integrity that you’d make up a lie just to defend Serms foolish comments.
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On November 06 2022 08:55 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 08:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2022 00:06 Sermokala wrote:
Again no one but the anti-vax crowd thinks that people are saying that covid will be totally eliminated. And replace covid with a host of other diseases that we've done the same with pretty much without issue and yeah.
I disagree, anti-wax people are not saying that, you were imo. Reinforced with the next sentence. Earlier you were talking about other diseases we have gotten "rid of" with medicine, just to counter BJ's argument which was totally fine. No he's literally doing that right now. Just read any of his posts. He doesn't understand how herd immunity works and seems greatly confused on why every kid gets vaccines before going to school. He's stun locked on not being able to imagine a world where kids grow up and aren't going to school anymore. He constantly frames the argument about kids in school without being able to understand that there are adults in schools somehow and also there are adults where kids go when they're not in school. I was taking about other vaccines that bj got when he was a kid and I was asking him if he understood why he got them. He decided to interpret that as I think that if we just got kids vaccinated everything would be magical rainbows.
Can you explain how herd immunity words and how it relates to COVID vaccine mandates for schools?
If you support COVID vaccine mandates for school can you explain why you think almost every school district in the country has chosen not to require them?
Answer my questions and I'll answer yours again (or link to my posts where I've answered them before). Just so you know I'm acting in good faith I'll answer one of your questions now
"Do you know why you were vaccinated against Whooping Cough."
Yes, to prevent whooping cough
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On November 06 2022 10:16 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 08:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 06 2022 08:08 evilfatsh1t wrote:
how many diseases do you know that humanity has successfully eradicated compared to the number of diseases present?
were not even close to eradicating somwhat similar diseases such as the common cold or the flu. its ridiculous to assume that covid vaccine mandates would get us anywhere near the result of total eradication.
if serms reasoning for pushing for covid vaccine mandates is because of some underlying belief that eradication is possible then he would be wrong. thats not optimism, its stupidity.
also i saw a bunch of posts earlier about making the correct decisions with the information available at the time. even if by some miracle we find that we are able to eradicate covid 5 years later, at the moment we dont have any indication as to that being possible and so should not take measures pretending like it is. You're conflating two different things here: pushing for current vaccine mandates vs. a future scenario where vaccines are more advanced and more successful at eradicating covid. The conversation I'm having with BlackJack isn't about the former; it's about whether or not the latter is hypothetically possible, and I can't say with certainty that it's impossible. I think it's unlikely, but not so unlikely that I would yell at Serm for optimistically hoping that such a thing could happen. Also, for what it's worth, my main reason for thinking we wouldn't ever eradicate covid (or some other infectious diseases) is because of the lack of faith I have in humanity to do what's best for themselves and their neighbors, not because of my lack of faith in scientific/medical research. Even if they found a guaranteed cure to the common cold, or the flu, or covid - assuming, say, 90% of Americans took that magic pill - I would be pretty surprised if enough people would actually take it. That's my main reason for not being at Serm's level of optimism. No, we’re not having a “conversation” here about some hypothetical scenario in the future. That’s the ridiculous interpretation you wanted to invent to explain away Serm’s post where he said we could virtually eliminate COVID in schools the same way we have chicken pox and measles. The 2nd interpretation you invented. I’m not participating in this conversation, I’m simply trying to determine if you’ve completely lost your mind or if you have so little integrity that you’d make up a lie just to defend Serms foolish comments.
When you make that determination, let me know; I'll care just as much about your determination as I do about your opinion that I'm not allowed to interpret hypotheticals as occurring in the future.
Despite all the time you spend criticizing Serm for mudslinging and shitting on you, you still have no problem accusing people of having lost their minds and integrity. Every once in a while I try to engage with you in good faith, yet you still flip out.
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On November 06 2022 10:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 10:16 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 08:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 06 2022 08:08 evilfatsh1t wrote:
how many diseases do you know that humanity has successfully eradicated compared to the number of diseases present?
were not even close to eradicating somwhat similar diseases such as the common cold or the flu. its ridiculous to assume that covid vaccine mandates would get us anywhere near the result of total eradication.
if serms reasoning for pushing for covid vaccine mandates is because of some underlying belief that eradication is possible then he would be wrong. thats not optimism, its stupidity.
also i saw a bunch of posts earlier about making the correct decisions with the information available at the time. even if by some miracle we find that we are able to eradicate covid 5 years later, at the moment we dont have any indication as to that being possible and so should not take measures pretending like it is. You're conflating two different things here: pushing for current vaccine mandates vs. a future scenario where vaccines are more advanced and more successful at eradicating covid. The conversation I'm having with BlackJack isn't about the former; it's about whether or not the latter is hypothetically possible, and I can't say with certainty that it's impossible. I think it's unlikely, but not so unlikely that I would yell at Serm for optimistically hoping that such a thing could happen. Also, for what it's worth, my main reason for thinking we wouldn't ever eradicate covid (or some other infectious diseases) is because of the lack of faith I have in humanity to do what's best for themselves and their neighbors, not because of my lack of faith in scientific/medical research. Even if they found a guaranteed cure to the common cold, or the flu, or covid - assuming, say, 90% of Americans took that magic pill - I would be pretty surprised if enough people would actually take it. That's my main reason for not being at Serm's level of optimism. No, we’re not having a “conversation” here about some hypothetical scenario in the future. That’s the ridiculous interpretation you wanted to invent to explain away Serm’s post where he said we could virtually eliminate COVID in schools the same way we have chicken pox and measles. The 2nd interpretation you invented. I’m not participating in this conversation, I’m simply trying to determine if you’ve completely lost your mind or if you have so little integrity that you’d make up a lie just to defend Serms foolish comments. When you make that determination, let me know; I'll care just as much about your determination as I do about your opinion that I'm not allowed to interpret hypotheticals as occurring in the future. Despite all the time you spend criticizing Serm for mudslinging and shitting on you, you still have no problem accusing people of having lost their minds and integrity. Every once in a while I try to engage with you in good faith, yet you still flip out.
Well since you're insisting you're arguing in good faith I have no reason to doubt you. So my determination is definitely to the former.
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I am so sad i have to actually go US..  You will have me fucked up most likely, fuck me.
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On November 06 2022 10:53 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 08:55 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 08:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2022 00:06 Sermokala wrote:
Again no one but the anti-vax crowd thinks that people are saying that covid will be totally eliminated. And replace covid with a host of other diseases that we've done the same with pretty much without issue and yeah.
I disagree, anti-wax people are not saying that, you were imo. Reinforced with the next sentence. Earlier you were talking about other diseases we have gotten "rid of" with medicine, just to counter BJ's argument which was totally fine. No he's literally doing that right now. Just read any of his posts. He doesn't understand how herd immunity works and seems greatly confused on why every kid gets vaccines before going to school. He's stun locked on not being able to imagine a world where kids grow up and aren't going to school anymore. He constantly frames the argument about kids in school without being able to understand that there are adults in schools somehow and also there are adults where kids go when they're not in school. I was taking about other vaccines that bj got when he was a kid and I was asking him if he understood why he got them. He decided to interpret that as I think that if we just got kids vaccinated everything would be magical rainbows. Can you explain how herd immunity words and how it relates to COVID vaccine mandates for schools? If you support COVID vaccine mandates for school can you explain why you think almost every school district in the country has chosen not to require them? Answer my questions and I'll answer yours again (or link to my posts where I've answered them before). Just so you know I'm acting in good faith I'll answer one of your questions now "Do you know why you were vaccinated against Whooping Cough." Yes, to prevent whooping cough
You just answered your own question then. You got the whooping cough vaccine so you wouldn't die from whooping cough, you would give children the covid vaccine so they wouldn't die from covid. You were told to get it before you went to school to ensure the adult population would have gotten it. Its a generational effort to ensure that we have herd immunity to these infectious diseases that we remain vigilant against. if whooping cough or measles died out we wouldn't need to get those vaccines. We don't give children the smallpox vaccine anymore because that disease has died out.
Vaccine mandates are run on a state-by-state basis on many merits. Covid being a thing in the past 3 years having a comprehensive generational spanning plan laid out and operating like with other diseases isn't a rational thing yet.
Why isn't a rational thing yet? capitalism, its not economical to vaccinate the entire population when herd immunity would take decades to fully establish itself like it has with other diseases. And with the companies being allowed to charge whatever they want for those vaccines starting next year it will be a long time before the economics of it allow it to happen. If we had a healthcare system that was made to benefit people instead of corporations they would be mandated by states across the nation so we can start to build it up like we should.
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On November 06 2022 14:11 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 10:53 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 08:55 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 08:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2022 00:06 Sermokala wrote:
Again no one but the anti-vax crowd thinks that people are saying that covid will be totally eliminated. And replace covid with a host of other diseases that we've done the same with pretty much without issue and yeah.
I disagree, anti-wax people are not saying that, you were imo. Reinforced with the next sentence. Earlier you were talking about other diseases we have gotten "rid of" with medicine, just to counter BJ's argument which was totally fine. No he's literally doing that right now. Just read any of his posts. He doesn't understand how herd immunity works and seems greatly confused on why every kid gets vaccines before going to school. He's stun locked on not being able to imagine a world where kids grow up and aren't going to school anymore. He constantly frames the argument about kids in school without being able to understand that there are adults in schools somehow and also there are adults where kids go when they're not in school. I was taking about other vaccines that bj got when he was a kid and I was asking him if he understood why he got them. He decided to interpret that as I think that if we just got kids vaccinated everything would be magical rainbows. Can you explain how herd immunity words and how it relates to COVID vaccine mandates for schools? If you support COVID vaccine mandates for school can you explain why you think almost every school district in the country has chosen not to require them? Answer my questions and I'll answer yours again (or link to my posts where I've answered them before). Just so you know I'm acting in good faith I'll answer one of your questions now "Do you know why you were vaccinated against Whooping Cough." Yes, to prevent whooping cough You just answered your own question then. You got the whooping cough vaccine so you wouldn't die from whooping cough, you would give children the covid vaccine so they wouldn't die from covid. You were told to get it before you went to school to ensure the adult population would have gotten it. Its a generational effort to ensure that we have herd immunity to these infectious diseases that we remain vigilant against. if whooping cough or measles died out we wouldn't need to get those vaccines. We don't give children the smallpox vaccine anymore because that disease has died out. Vaccine mandates are run on a state-by-state basis on many merits. Covid being a thing in the past 3 years having a comprehensive generational spanning plan laid out and operating like with other diseases isn't a rational thing yet. Why isn't a rational thing yet? capitalism, its not economical to vaccinate the entire population when herd immunity would take decades to fully establish itself like it has with other diseases. And with the companies being allowed to charge whatever they want for those vaccines starting next year it will be a long time before the economics of it allow it to happen. If we had a healthcare system that was made to benefit people instead of corporations they would be mandated by states across the nation so we can start to build it up like we should.
So... you think we can virtually eliminate COVID from schools with the COVID vaccines the same way we have virtually eliminated whooping cough from schools with the pertussis vaccine?
You think the COVID vaccines can provide a "generational effort" towards herd immunity against COVID?
How many years or generations do you think it will take until we have herd immunity against COVID if we institute comprehensive vaccine mandates like the ones you propose? Also please literally "define" herd immunity for me.
Did you take the flu vaccine every year as a child to attend public schools? Do you know why you didn't have to take the flu vaccine to attend public schools?
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