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Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. |
On November 06 2022 14:28 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 14:11 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 10:53 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 08:55 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 08:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2022 00:06 Sermokala wrote:
Again no one but the anti-vax crowd thinks that people are saying that covid will be totally eliminated. And replace covid with a host of other diseases that we've done the same with pretty much without issue and yeah.
I disagree, anti-wax people are not saying that, you were imo. Reinforced with the next sentence. Earlier you were talking about other diseases we have gotten "rid of" with medicine, just to counter BJ's argument which was totally fine. No he's literally doing that right now. Just read any of his posts. He doesn't understand how herd immunity works and seems greatly confused on why every kid gets vaccines before going to school. He's stun locked on not being able to imagine a world where kids grow up and aren't going to school anymore. He constantly frames the argument about kids in school without being able to understand that there are adults in schools somehow and also there are adults where kids go when they're not in school. I was taking about other vaccines that bj got when he was a kid and I was asking him if he understood why he got them. He decided to interpret that as I think that if we just got kids vaccinated everything would be magical rainbows. Can you explain how herd immunity words and how it relates to COVID vaccine mandates for schools? If you support COVID vaccine mandates for school can you explain why you think almost every school district in the country has chosen not to require them? Answer my questions and I'll answer yours again (or link to my posts where I've answered them before). Just so you know I'm acting in good faith I'll answer one of your questions now "Do you know why you were vaccinated against Whooping Cough." Yes, to prevent whooping cough You just answered your own question then. You got the whooping cough vaccine so you wouldn't die from whooping cough, you would give children the covid vaccine so they wouldn't die from covid. You were told to get it before you went to school to ensure the adult population would have gotten it. Its a generational effort to ensure that we have herd immunity to these infectious diseases that we remain vigilant against. if whooping cough or measles died out we wouldn't need to get those vaccines. We don't give children the smallpox vaccine anymore because that disease has died out. Vaccine mandates are run on a state-by-state basis on many merits. Covid being a thing in the past 3 years having a comprehensive generational spanning plan laid out and operating like with other diseases isn't a rational thing yet. Why isn't a rational thing yet? capitalism, its not economical to vaccinate the entire population when herd immunity would take decades to fully establish itself like it has with other diseases. And with the companies being allowed to charge whatever they want for those vaccines starting next year it will be a long time before the economics of it allow it to happen. If we had a healthcare system that was made to benefit people instead of corporations they would be mandated by states across the nation so we can start to build it up like we should. So... you think we can virtually eliminate COVID from schools with the COVID vaccines the same way we have virtually eliminated whooping cough from schools with the pertussis vaccine? You think the COVID vaccines can provide a "generational effort" towards herd immunity against COVID? How many years or generations do you think it will take until we have herd immunity against COVID if we institute comprehensive vaccine mandates like the ones you propose? Also please literally "define" herd immunity for me. Did you take the flu vaccine every year as a child to attend public schools? Do you know why you didn't have to take the flu vaccine to attend public schools?
It's not just about schools.
The vaccines are incapable of effort they're not people they're medicine.
I mean a generation isn't a defined period of time but it would take a few decades of just vaccinating children if that's all we're doing obviously.
The tipping point of when a disease no longer a threat to the herd due to factors relating to the disease.
No, I did anyway, the flu has multiple dominante strains due to it's unique situation.
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On November 06 2022 17:15 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 14:28 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 14:11 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 10:53 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 08:55 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 08:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2022 00:06 Sermokala wrote:
Again no one but the anti-vax crowd thinks that people are saying that covid will be totally eliminated. And replace covid with a host of other diseases that we've done the same with pretty much without issue and yeah.
I disagree, anti-wax people are not saying that, you were imo. Reinforced with the next sentence. Earlier you were talking about other diseases we have gotten "rid of" with medicine, just to counter BJ's argument which was totally fine. No he's literally doing that right now. Just read any of his posts. He doesn't understand how herd immunity works and seems greatly confused on why every kid gets vaccines before going to school. He's stun locked on not being able to imagine a world where kids grow up and aren't going to school anymore. He constantly frames the argument about kids in school without being able to understand that there are adults in schools somehow and also there are adults where kids go when they're not in school. I was taking about other vaccines that bj got when he was a kid and I was asking him if he understood why he got them. He decided to interpret that as I think that if we just got kids vaccinated everything would be magical rainbows. Can you explain how herd immunity words and how it relates to COVID vaccine mandates for schools? If you support COVID vaccine mandates for school can you explain why you think almost every school district in the country has chosen not to require them? Answer my questions and I'll answer yours again (or link to my posts where I've answered them before). Just so you know I'm acting in good faith I'll answer one of your questions now "Do you know why you were vaccinated against Whooping Cough." Yes, to prevent whooping cough You just answered your own question then. You got the whooping cough vaccine so you wouldn't die from whooping cough, you would give children the covid vaccine so they wouldn't die from covid. You were told to get it before you went to school to ensure the adult population would have gotten it. Its a generational effort to ensure that we have herd immunity to these infectious diseases that we remain vigilant against. if whooping cough or measles died out we wouldn't need to get those vaccines. We don't give children the smallpox vaccine anymore because that disease has died out. Vaccine mandates are run on a state-by-state basis on many merits. Covid being a thing in the past 3 years having a comprehensive generational spanning plan laid out and operating like with other diseases isn't a rational thing yet. Why isn't a rational thing yet? capitalism, its not economical to vaccinate the entire population when herd immunity would take decades to fully establish itself like it has with other diseases. And with the companies being allowed to charge whatever they want for those vaccines starting next year it will be a long time before the economics of it allow it to happen. If we had a healthcare system that was made to benefit people instead of corporations they would be mandated by states across the nation so we can start to build it up like we should. So... you think we can virtually eliminate COVID from schools with the COVID vaccines the same way we have virtually eliminated whooping cough from schools with the pertussis vaccine? You think the COVID vaccines can provide a "generational effort" towards herd immunity against COVID? How many years or generations do you think it will take until we have herd immunity against COVID if we institute comprehensive vaccine mandates like the ones you propose? Also please literally "define" herd immunity for me. Did you take the flu vaccine every year as a child to attend public schools? Do you know why you didn't have to take the flu vaccine to attend public schools? It's not just about schools. The vaccines are incapable of effort they're not people they're medicine. I mean a generation isn't a defined period of time but it would take a few decades of just vaccinating children if that's all we're doing obviously. The tipping point of when a disease no longer a threat to the herd due to factors relating to the disease. No, I did anyway, the flu has multiple dominante strains due to it's unique situation.
First, no, that's not the definition of herd immunity. I will supply one:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808
Herd immunity occurs when a large portion of a community (the herd) becomes immune to a disease. The spread of disease from person to person becomes unlikely when herd immunity is achieved. As a result, the whole community becomes protected — not just those who are immune.
I really can't believe we are talking about Herd Immunity to COVID in November of 2022 given what we know now. So you're still under the impression that we can achieve this? Well that's great news. I'm kind of surprised we haven't achieved it already then since almost everyone in the entire world has either been vaccinated or had COVID already. What do you think is holding that back?
All we need is a "few decades of just vaccinating children" to finally get to that sweet spot? Surely these are yearly vaccines though, right? I mean I don't think just getting one when you start elementary school is going to do the trick. But we also don't want to wait until grade school either. I'm thinking we start off with a 3 dose series in infancy, then starting at age 5 we do a yearly booster through grade school and into university. Perhaps after the 20th COVID shot in the 3rd year of university that's going to do the trick then COVID will be behind us! Damn, why aren't more people listening to you?! We need to get the word out on this.
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Well this faction of authoritarian Borg Drones in this thread are now trying to hold the line when their narrative is crashing down.
They are the same people sitting alone in their car with a mask or takes a swin in the sea alone with a mask, lol.
Are you completely delusional? You’re counterargument is comparing Covid that belongs to the Corona family viruses with Smallpox and Measles is ridicoulus.
Covid has more in similarities with the common flu and that is the whole fucking point why it cannot be eradicated.
When a virus can harbour in animals (READ COVID) it can also mutate and jump back to humans, thus it is impossible to eradicate
Maybe in some other universe in the multiverse, but not here.
MEASLES and SMALLPOX cannot infect animals therefore are mandatory vaccinationprograms effective in creating herd immunity.
www.cdc.gov
www.cdc.gov
So the effort to vaccinate the entire world against Covid is useless with the aim to eradicate the virus. This fact is already known by epidemiologist.
The mandates will never come back, the Governments will not risk severe civil unrest in the midst of shortage inflation and prelude to global war.
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On November 06 2022 17:55 InDaHouse wrote:Well this faction of authoritarian Borg Drones in this thread are now trying to hold the line when their narrative is crashing down. They are the same people sitting alone in their car with a mask or takes a swin in the sea alone with a mask, lol. Are you completely delusional? You’re counterargument is comparing Covid that belongs to the Corona family viruses with Smallpox and Measles is ridicoulus. Covid has more in similarities with the common flu and that is the whole fucking point why it cannot be eradicated. When a virus can harbour in animals (READ COVID) it can also mutate and jump back to humans, thus it is impossible to eradicate Maybe in some other universe in the multiverse, but not here. MEASLES and SMALLPOX cannot infect animals therefore are mandatory vaccinationprograms effective in creating herd immunity. www.cdc.govwww.cdc.govSo the effort to vaccinate the entire world against Covid is useless with the aim to eradicate the virus. This fact is already known by epidemiologist. The mandates will never come back, the Governments will not risk severe civil unrest in the midst of shortage inflation and prelude to global war.
Wow, another voice of reason appears.
Did you catch the discussion a couple pages back where people were talking about how we could eradicate COVID with even harsher lockdowns/measures?
https://tl.net/forum/general/556693-coronavirus-and-you?page=644#12869
Although they ignored my response when I pointed out that there were 29 different kinds of animals found to be carrying the virus including 80% of white-tailed deer in one sample they tested.
It's amazing we are still talking about eradicating COVID or herd immunity in 2022. But hey, they are the ones that follow the science and trust the experts.
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Well this faction of authoritarian Borg Drones in this thread are now trying to hold the line when their narrative is crashing down.
They are the same people sitting alone in their car with a mask or takes a swin in the sea alone with a mask, lol.
That is the voice of reason? Good to know, I will let my fellow scientists know that we can stop trying to explain new technologies and discoveries, stop wasting our time on how to figure out how to explain difficult scientific subjects to a wider audience, and instead just use more authoritative, emotional speech.
Who cares about falsifiability, if they have emotions on their side.
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On November 06 2022 18:50 Symplectos wrote:Show nested quote +Well this faction of authoritarian Borg Drones in this thread are now trying to hold the line when their narrative is crashing down.
They are the same people sitting alone in their car with a mask or takes a swin in the sea alone with a mask, lol. That is the voice of reason? Good to know, I will let my fellow scientists know that we can stop trying to explain new technologies and discoveries, stop wasting our time on how to figure out how to explain difficult scientific subjects to a wider audience, and instead just use more authoritative, emotional speech. Who cares about falsifiability, if they have emotions on their side.
Sure, that comment was uncalled for. Just like many comments made in the last week, my own included
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On November 06 2022 17:55 InDaHouse wrote:Well this faction of authoritarian Borg Drones in this thread are now trying to hold the line when their narrative is crashing down. They are the same people sitting alone in their car with a mask or takes a swin in the sea alone with a mask, lol. Are you completely delusional? You’re counterargument is comparing Covid that belongs to the Corona family viruses with Smallpox and Measles is ridicoulus. Covid has more in similarities with the common flu and that is the whole fucking point why it cannot be eradicated. When a virus can harbour in animals (READ COVID) it can also mutate and jump back to humans, thus it is impossible to eradicate Maybe in some other universe in the multiverse, but not here. MEASLES and SMALLPOX cannot infect animals therefore are mandatory vaccinationprograms effective in creating herd immunity. www.cdc.govwww.cdc.govSo the effort to vaccinate the entire world against Covid is useless with the aim to eradicate the virus. This fact is already known by epidemiologist. The mandates will never come back, the Governments will not risk severe civil unrest in the midst of shortage inflation and prelude to global war.
Damn so many strawmen... Missing the field for the scarecrows.
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I can understand the frustration both sides feel, although I am obviously biased, and while this thread is informative, I have a feeling that the current discussion will go on for decades, as the two sides are simply speaking different languages.
I think I wrote something similar before, but one of the difficult things in discussing scientific theories in a modern language is that most languages are not precise enough. To actually move forward reaching a consensus, or at least a better understanding, both sides would have to take a step back, define their actual talking points, define what the scientific words that are used mean exactly, and then try to slowly move forward to a conclusion.
As an example:
Are you completely delusional? You’re counterargument is comparing Covid that belongs to the Corona family viruses with Smallpox and Measles is ridicoulus.
Covid has more in similarities with the common flu and that is the whole fucking point why it cannot be eradicated.
How do I deal with these sentences in a scientific way, as a non-expert? Do I assume that the poster is an expert, and knows everything, because he is loud and uses an aggressive language? Maybe he is right, maybe he is not, both sentences could be true, but the truth probably is that they are not exactly true as they are written. I mean, scientists still do research on all those topics, which means they are probably not as sure about it as the poster. And then there are scientific ideas mixed with human emotions, why is one comparison deemed ridiculous, and the other obvious?
Am I supposed to take hours and hours trying to figure out why those above claims are true, or possible false? I have not been given any arguments that I can actually verify, or falsify, or whatever. How can I even counter them, if the main argument is "your arguments are ridiculous"? And yes, just to be sure, that obviously goes for both sides, just stating that Covid could be eradicated because it is like the Measles, without any further arguments, is also not helpful.
Speaking for myself, while having had some opportunity to do some Covid-related research at the beginning of the outbreak, I have not been able to keep track of all the new research done this year and the enormous number of background noises, make it very difficult to stay ahead of the curve. How suddenly all those non-scientifically inclined people know everything about viruses, transmission theory and dynamical systems, is either a wonder, or a delusion.
What I find alarming though, is that the analytical process of the scientific community delivering research data, and political leaders then taking actions based on that data, is being under attack by a very loud minority.
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On November 06 2022 17:53 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 17:15 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 14:28 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 14:11 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 10:53 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 08:55 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 08:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2022 00:06 Sermokala wrote:
Again no one but the anti-vax crowd thinks that people are saying that covid will be totally eliminated. And replace covid with a host of other diseases that we've done the same with pretty much without issue and yeah.
I disagree, anti-wax people are not saying that, you were imo. Reinforced with the next sentence. Earlier you were talking about other diseases we have gotten "rid of" with medicine, just to counter BJ's argument which was totally fine. No he's literally doing that right now. Just read any of his posts. He doesn't understand how herd immunity works and seems greatly confused on why every kid gets vaccines before going to school. He's stun locked on not being able to imagine a world where kids grow up and aren't going to school anymore. He constantly frames the argument about kids in school without being able to understand that there are adults in schools somehow and also there are adults where kids go when they're not in school. I was taking about other vaccines that bj got when he was a kid and I was asking him if he understood why he got them. He decided to interpret that as I think that if we just got kids vaccinated everything would be magical rainbows. Can you explain how herd immunity words and how it relates to COVID vaccine mandates for schools? If you support COVID vaccine mandates for school can you explain why you think almost every school district in the country has chosen not to require them? Answer my questions and I'll answer yours again (or link to my posts where I've answered them before). Just so you know I'm acting in good faith I'll answer one of your questions now "Do you know why you were vaccinated against Whooping Cough." Yes, to prevent whooping cough You just answered your own question then. You got the whooping cough vaccine so you wouldn't die from whooping cough, you would give children the covid vaccine so they wouldn't die from covid. You were told to get it before you went to school to ensure the adult population would have gotten it. Its a generational effort to ensure that we have herd immunity to these infectious diseases that we remain vigilant against. if whooping cough or measles died out we wouldn't need to get those vaccines. We don't give children the smallpox vaccine anymore because that disease has died out. Vaccine mandates are run on a state-by-state basis on many merits. Covid being a thing in the past 3 years having a comprehensive generational spanning plan laid out and operating like with other diseases isn't a rational thing yet. Why isn't a rational thing yet? capitalism, its not economical to vaccinate the entire population when herd immunity would take decades to fully establish itself like it has with other diseases. And with the companies being allowed to charge whatever they want for those vaccines starting next year it will be a long time before the economics of it allow it to happen. If we had a healthcare system that was made to benefit people instead of corporations they would be mandated by states across the nation so we can start to build it up like we should. So... you think we can virtually eliminate COVID from schools with the COVID vaccines the same way we have virtually eliminated whooping cough from schools with the pertussis vaccine? You think the COVID vaccines can provide a "generational effort" towards herd immunity against COVID? How many years or generations do you think it will take until we have herd immunity against COVID if we institute comprehensive vaccine mandates like the ones you propose? Also please literally "define" herd immunity for me. Did you take the flu vaccine every year as a child to attend public schools? Do you know why you didn't have to take the flu vaccine to attend public schools? It's not just about schools. The vaccines are incapable of effort they're not people they're medicine. I mean a generation isn't a defined period of time but it would take a few decades of just vaccinating children if that's all we're doing obviously. The tipping point of when a disease no longer a threat to the herd due to factors relating to the disease. No, I did anyway, the flu has multiple dominante strains due to it's unique situation. First, no, that's not the definition of herd immunity. I will supply one: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808Herd immunity occurs when a large portion of a community (the herd) becomes immune to a disease. The spread of disease from person to person becomes unlikely when herd immunity is achieved. As a result, the whole community becomes protected — not just those who are immune. I really can't believe we are talking about Herd Immunity to COVID in November of 2022 given what we know now. So you're still under the impression that we can achieve this? Well that's great news. I'm kind of surprised we haven't achieved it already then since almost everyone in the entire world has either been vaccinated or had COVID already. What do you think is holding that back? All we need is a "few decades of just vaccinating children" to finally get to that sweet spot? Surely these are yearly vaccines though, right? I mean I don't think just getting one when you start elementary school is going to do the trick. But we also don't want to wait until grade school either. I'm thinking we start off with a 3 dose series in infancy, then starting at age 5 we do a yearly booster through grade school and into university. Perhaps after the 20th COVID shot in the 3rd year of university that's going to do the trick then COVID will be behind us! Damn, why aren't more people listening to you?! We need to get the word out on this.
Couldn't hold back the gotchas and runaway misrepresenting people for 2 posts that's incredible.
Seeing your failure to grasp other concepts I was attempting to provide a good faith effort to explain it to you. But seeing how one of us likes to at least pretend that we argue in good faith let's keep going.
I'm not surprised you're unable to believe that we're taking about concepts you brought up. Yes I do. No they haven't anti vaxers like you.
I mean if that's the plan sure. I mean no but there are boosters in that vaccine schedule that you got as a kid so you understand the legitimate reason for getting more than one. You go on a weird fantasy tangent trying to make an argument there. I think that's when the hallucinations started for you again.
It's hilarious that you then go on to say that the conspiracy theorist that calls people both drone faction is a voice of reason. You do have very low standards for reason on topics you don't grasp well.
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On November 06 2022 19:48 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 17:53 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 17:15 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 14:28 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 14:11 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 10:53 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 08:55 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 08:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2022 00:06 Sermokala wrote:
Again no one but the anti-vax crowd thinks that people are saying that covid will be totally eliminated. And replace covid with a host of other diseases that we've done the same with pretty much without issue and yeah.
I disagree, anti-wax people are not saying that, you were imo. Reinforced with the next sentence. Earlier you were talking about other diseases we have gotten "rid of" with medicine, just to counter BJ's argument which was totally fine. No he's literally doing that right now. Just read any of his posts. He doesn't understand how herd immunity works and seems greatly confused on why every kid gets vaccines before going to school. He's stun locked on not being able to imagine a world where kids grow up and aren't going to school anymore. He constantly frames the argument about kids in school without being able to understand that there are adults in schools somehow and also there are adults where kids go when they're not in school. I was taking about other vaccines that bj got when he was a kid and I was asking him if he understood why he got them. He decided to interpret that as I think that if we just got kids vaccinated everything would be magical rainbows. Can you explain how herd immunity words and how it relates to COVID vaccine mandates for schools? If you support COVID vaccine mandates for school can you explain why you think almost every school district in the country has chosen not to require them? Answer my questions and I'll answer yours again (or link to my posts where I've answered them before). Just so you know I'm acting in good faith I'll answer one of your questions now "Do you know why you were vaccinated against Whooping Cough." Yes, to prevent whooping cough You just answered your own question then. You got the whooping cough vaccine so you wouldn't die from whooping cough, you would give children the covid vaccine so they wouldn't die from covid. You were told to get it before you went to school to ensure the adult population would have gotten it. Its a generational effort to ensure that we have herd immunity to these infectious diseases that we remain vigilant against. if whooping cough or measles died out we wouldn't need to get those vaccines. We don't give children the smallpox vaccine anymore because that disease has died out. Vaccine mandates are run on a state-by-state basis on many merits. Covid being a thing in the past 3 years having a comprehensive generational spanning plan laid out and operating like with other diseases isn't a rational thing yet. Why isn't a rational thing yet? capitalism, its not economical to vaccinate the entire population when herd immunity would take decades to fully establish itself like it has with other diseases. And with the companies being allowed to charge whatever they want for those vaccines starting next year it will be a long time before the economics of it allow it to happen. If we had a healthcare system that was made to benefit people instead of corporations they would be mandated by states across the nation so we can start to build it up like we should. So... you think we can virtually eliminate COVID from schools with the COVID vaccines the same way we have virtually eliminated whooping cough from schools with the pertussis vaccine? You think the COVID vaccines can provide a "generational effort" towards herd immunity against COVID? How many years or generations do you think it will take until we have herd immunity against COVID if we institute comprehensive vaccine mandates like the ones you propose? Also please literally "define" herd immunity for me. Did you take the flu vaccine every year as a child to attend public schools? Do you know why you didn't have to take the flu vaccine to attend public schools? It's not just about schools. The vaccines are incapable of effort they're not people they're medicine. I mean a generation isn't a defined period of time but it would take a few decades of just vaccinating children if that's all we're doing obviously. The tipping point of when a disease no longer a threat to the herd due to factors relating to the disease. No, I did anyway, the flu has multiple dominante strains due to it's unique situation. First, no, that's not the definition of herd immunity. I will supply one: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808Herd immunity occurs when a large portion of a community (the herd) becomes immune to a disease. The spread of disease from person to person becomes unlikely when herd immunity is achieved. As a result, the whole community becomes protected — not just those who are immune. I really can't believe we are talking about Herd Immunity to COVID in November of 2022 given what we know now. So you're still under the impression that we can achieve this? Well that's great news. I'm kind of surprised we haven't achieved it already then since almost everyone in the entire world has either been vaccinated or had COVID already. What do you think is holding that back? All we need is a "few decades of just vaccinating children" to finally get to that sweet spot? Surely these are yearly vaccines though, right? I mean I don't think just getting one when you start elementary school is going to do the trick. But we also don't want to wait until grade school either. I'm thinking we start off with a 3 dose series in infancy, then starting at age 5 we do a yearly booster through grade school and into university. Perhaps after the 20th COVID shot in the 3rd year of university that's going to do the trick then COVID will be behind us! Damn, why aren't more people listening to you?! We need to get the word out on this. Couldn't hold back the gotchas and runaway misrepresenting people for 2 posts that's incredible. Seeing your failure to grasp other concepts I was attempting to provide a good faith effort to explain it to you. But seeing how one of us likes to at least pretend that we argue in good faith let's keep going. I'm not surprised you're unable to believe that we're taking about concepts you brought up. Yes I do. No they haven't anti vaxers like you. I mean if that's the plan sure. I mean no but there are boosters in that vaccine schedule that you got as a kid so you understand the legitimate reason for getting more than one. You go on a weird fantasy tangent trying to make an argument there. I think that's when the hallucinations started for you again. It's hilarious that you then go on to say that the conspiracy theorist that calls people both drone faction is a voice of reason. You do have very low standards for reason on topics you don't grasp well.
I'm not even trying to be mean but I actually can't understand any of this
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On November 06 2022 09:28 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 04:34 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 06 2022 02:51 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 01:52 Fleetfeet wrote:
Is "Vaccine mandates should be taken on a case-by-case system, and I don't agree with Covid vaccine mandates currently" a fundamentally different answer than the one you provided? Personally, they seem very similar. Those aren't the two answers that are being constructed but one is stating that decisions are made. Everything is done on a case-by-case basis from suns deciding to blow up or not to plants deciding to keep growing or slow down on growing. Its the most complete deflection of "I don't need to answer your question because I have stated that I answer questions". The other is stating why you are making your decision in this case. aka showing that you have any sort of free thoughts going on in your head or awareness that there is a world around you in any way. BJ continuously fails to show this because he knows how his answer will make him look. Hes now trapped even more because I've shown him a rational and simple answer he could have provided at any point this whole time. But we all know he can't even take the rational out because his grievance-based approach wouldn't let him. Its getting to the point where people are going to have to make arguments for him because they pity him for not being able to do it themselves. I expected that to be where your response would go, and understand BJ's frustration in being completely unheard. He's provided a 'why' as well, but you're not arguing against that "why". He's mentioned statistics involving schools having failed to virtually eliminate covid-19 despite 99% vaccination rates. He's mentioned myocarditis or some shit as a side effect of the vaccine. He's provided WHYs, and rather than continuing to attack his WHYs for whatever weakness they have, you've constructed a strawman BJ and continue to attack that. It just feels unproductive. We've been spinning our wheels in this 'argument' for pages upon pages, and your 'simple question' isn't as robust as you think it is. If he was frustrated about being unheard or had a why he was confident in he would be able to say those reasons so people could hear it. He doesn't like repeating them because we've shown how they're dumb and he doesn't like feeling dumb. Vaccination doesn't stop you from getting covid that isn't the point of vaccinations. He's mentioned side effects from the vaccine and was shown how the rates of heart inflammation is much worse when you get covid without the vaccine. It does feel unproductive because you can't have good faith conversations with someone who refuses to conversate in good faith. When he gets cornered he desperately tries to reframe the argument in a way he can present a gotcha to try and hide him getting exposed so often. I don't think we're spinning wheels. His squirmy struggles against basic concepts and information is pretty entertaining honestly. Once you get the pattern down you can figure out that what he's stuck on and can't figure out how to answer " why do you think you got vaccinated for whooping cough as a kid?". He understands when he loses at something and has to go out to Facebook to find his next gotcha. Once you put any pressure to the things he says you find out just how little there is inside it.
It's really sad to think that grinding BlackJack into dust for entertainment is the most important subject of the COVID thread.
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It's hard to take BJ seriously when he thinks "safe" does not equate to "without risk", and "as a result of" does not equate to "because of", but instead to "after". And he also wouldn't consider temporarily using an alternative definition of words and phrases outside of his own if it could serve to keep the argument in good faith - because it would mean he loses the argument. He has to see that everyone else is walking on verbal eggshells in order to counter their arguments and come out somehow thinking he's winning the argument. Both the official dictionaries and good faith argumentation render BJ's argumentation invalid. This is why he comes across as dishonest and why he appears to be gaslighting everyone - because he is.
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Northern Ireland27265 Posts
On November 06 2022 17:55 InDaHouse wrote:Well this faction of authoritarian Borg Drones in this thread are now trying to hold the line when their narrative is crashing down. They are the same people sitting alone in their car with a mask or takes a swin in the sea alone with a mask, lol. Are you completely delusional? You’re counterargument is comparing Covid that belongs to the Corona family viruses with Smallpox and Measles is ridicoulus. Covid has more in similarities with the common flu and that is the whole fucking point why it cannot be eradicated. When a virus can harbour in animals (READ COVID) it can also mutate and jump back to humans, thus it is impossible to eradicate Maybe in some other universe in the multiverse, but not here. MEASLES and SMALLPOX cannot infect animals therefore are mandatory vaccinationprograms effective in creating herd immunity. www.cdc.govwww.cdc.govSo the effort to vaccinate the entire world against Covid is useless with the aim to eradicate the virus. This fact is already known by epidemiologist. The mandates will never come back, the Governments will not risk severe civil unrest in the midst of shortage inflation and prelude to global war.
What narrative do us borg drones stick to?
There’s a pretty big divergence of opinion in here, I’d encourage you to stick around and engage and find out what that is.
From my understanding, and what I read from those who wield much more expertise than I, the vaccines were effective enough against the earlier variants that a combination of vaccination and natural immunity could, theoretically borderline eradicate it.
But hey, vaccination wasn’t rolled out quickly enough to poorer areas of the world, omicron became a dominant strain, which vaccines were considerably less effective against.
Evidently, trying to pursue any kind of Covid elimination policy and holding that position became rather untenable given the changes in circumstances.
So I shifted, as I believe most in this thread did, broadly from prevention to mitigation.
As regulars will attest I was probably the most hawkish in the past for travel bans, or foreign travel without quarantine measures.
It’s not remotely a position I hold now. If COVID elimination is a ship that has sailed, if localised preventative measures have been largely dropped, then restricting travel has a negligible impact and serves no great purpose.
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On November 06 2022 23:21 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 17:55 InDaHouse wrote:Well this faction of authoritarian Borg Drones in this thread are now trying to hold the line when their narrative is crashing down. They are the same people sitting alone in their car with a mask or takes a swin in the sea alone with a mask, lol. Are you completely delusional? You’re counterargument is comparing Covid that belongs to the Corona family viruses with Smallpox and Measles is ridicoulus. Covid has more in similarities with the common flu and that is the whole fucking point why it cannot be eradicated. When a virus can harbour in animals (READ COVID) it can also mutate and jump back to humans, thus it is impossible to eradicate Maybe in some other universe in the multiverse, but not here. MEASLES and SMALLPOX cannot infect animals therefore are mandatory vaccinationprograms effective in creating herd immunity. www.cdc.govwww.cdc.govSo the effort to vaccinate the entire world against Covid is useless with the aim to eradicate the virus. This fact is already known by epidemiologist. The mandates will never come back, the Governments will not risk severe civil unrest in the midst of shortage inflation and prelude to global war. What narrative do us borg drones stick to? There’s a pretty big divergence of opinion in here, I’d encourage you to stick around and engage and find out what that is. From my understanding, and what I read from those who wield much more expertise than I, the vaccines were effective enough against the earlier variants that a combination of vaccination and natural immunity could, theoretically borderline eradicate it. But hey, vaccination wasn’t rolled out quickly enough to poorer areas of the world, omicron became a dominant strain, which vaccines were considerably less effective against. Evidently, trying to pursue any kind of Covid elimination policy and holding that position became rather untenable given the changes in circumstances. So I shifted, as I believe most in this thread did, broadly from prevention to mitigation. As regulars will attest I was probably the most hawkish in the past for travel bans, or foreign travel without quarantine measures. It’s not remotely a position I hold now. If COVID elimination is a ship that has sailed, if localised preventative measures have been largely dropped, then restricting travel has a negligible impact and serves no great purpose.
Sounds like a reasonable, updated position imo. I hope that future boosters are more effective against current/future covid strains. I think they will be, since omicron didn't even exist when the original vaccines were created, so now there's more data to work with and research.
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On November 06 2022 23:21 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 17:55 InDaHouse wrote:Well this faction of authoritarian Borg Drones in this thread are now trying to hold the line when their narrative is crashing down. They are the same people sitting alone in their car with a mask or takes a swin in the sea alone with a mask, lol. Are you completely delusional? You’re counterargument is comparing Covid that belongs to the Corona family viruses with Smallpox and Measles is ridicoulus. Covid has more in similarities with the common flu and that is the whole fucking point why it cannot be eradicated. When a virus can harbour in animals (READ COVID) it can also mutate and jump back to humans, thus it is impossible to eradicate Maybe in some other universe in the multiverse, but not here. MEASLES and SMALLPOX cannot infect animals therefore are mandatory vaccinationprograms effective in creating herd immunity. www.cdc.govwww.cdc.govSo the effort to vaccinate the entire world against Covid is useless with the aim to eradicate the virus. This fact is already known by epidemiologist. The mandates will never come back, the Governments will not risk severe civil unrest in the midst of shortage inflation and prelude to global war. What narrative do us borg drones stick to? There’s a pretty big divergence of opinion in here, I’d encourage you to stick around and engage and find out what that is. From my understanding, and what I read from those who wield much more expertise than I, the vaccines were effective enough against the earlier variants that a combination of vaccination and natural immunity could, theoretically borderline eradicate it. But hey, vaccination wasn’t rolled out quickly enough to poorer areas of the world, omicron became a dominant strain, which vaccines were considerably less effective against. Evidently, trying to pursue any kind of Covid elimination policy and holding that position became rather untenable given the changes in circumstances. So I shifted, as I believe most in this thread did, broadly from prevention to mitigation. As regulars will attest I was probably the most hawkish in the past for travel bans, or foreign travel without quarantine measures. It’s not remotely a position I hold now. If COVID elimination is a ship that has sailed, if localised preventative measures have been largely dropped, then restricting travel has a negligible impact and serves no great purpose.
and how would mandating covid vaccines in schools fit into your position in this post? do you think it also is likely to have negligible impact? or do you think that somehow a vaccine mandate in schools is still meaningful and works towards eradication? sermokala is in line with the latter.
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On November 06 2022 23:04 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 22:25 Troutish wrote:On November 06 2022 09:28 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 04:34 Fleetfeet wrote:On November 06 2022 02:51 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 01:52 Fleetfeet wrote:
Is "Vaccine mandates should be taken on a case-by-case system, and I don't agree with Covid vaccine mandates currently" a fundamentally different answer than the one you provided? Personally, they seem very similar. Those aren't the two answers that are being constructed but one is stating that decisions are made. Everything is done on a case-by-case basis from suns deciding to blow up or not to plants deciding to keep growing or slow down on growing. Its the most complete deflection of "I don't need to answer your question because I have stated that I answer questions". The other is stating why you are making your decision in this case. aka showing that you have any sort of free thoughts going on in your head or awareness that there is a world around you in any way. BJ continuously fails to show this because he knows how his answer will make him look. Hes now trapped even more because I've shown him a rational and simple answer he could have provided at any point this whole time. But we all know he can't even take the rational out because his grievance-based approach wouldn't let him. Its getting to the point where people are going to have to make arguments for him because they pity him for not being able to do it themselves. I expected that to be where your response would go, and understand BJ's frustration in being completely unheard. He's provided a 'why' as well, but you're not arguing against that "why". He's mentioned statistics involving schools having failed to virtually eliminate covid-19 despite 99% vaccination rates. He's mentioned myocarditis or some shit as a side effect of the vaccine. He's provided WHYs, and rather than continuing to attack his WHYs for whatever weakness they have, you've constructed a strawman BJ and continue to attack that. It just feels unproductive. We've been spinning our wheels in this 'argument' for pages upon pages, and your 'simple question' isn't as robust as you think it is. If he was frustrated about being unheard or had a why he was confident in he would be able to say those reasons so people could hear it. He doesn't like repeating them because we've shown how they're dumb and he doesn't like feeling dumb. Vaccination doesn't stop you from getting covid that isn't the point of vaccinations. He's mentioned side effects from the vaccine and was shown how the rates of heart inflammation is much worse when you get covid without the vaccine. It does feel unproductive because you can't have good faith conversations with someone who refuses to conversate in good faith. When he gets cornered he desperately tries to reframe the argument in a way he can present a gotcha to try and hide him getting exposed so often. I don't think we're spinning wheels. His squirmy struggles against basic concepts and information is pretty entertaining honestly. Once you get the pattern down you can figure out that what he's stuck on and can't figure out how to answer " why do you think you got vaccinated for whooping cough as a kid?". He understands when he loses at something and has to go out to Facebook to find his next gotcha. Once you put any pressure to the things he says you find out just how little there is inside it. It's really sad to think that grinding BlackJack into dust for entertainment is the most important subject of the COVID thread. What is really sad is the people who hide behind alts to their digs in and PBUs who just keep coming back.
I mean I guess I hope there is a policy for that sort of thing. Not sure what that has to do with my post though. Do you agree that the subject of this thread should be something so off topic?
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On November 06 2022 20:02 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2022 19:48 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 17:53 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 17:15 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 14:28 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 14:11 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 10:53 BlackJack wrote:On November 06 2022 08:55 Sermokala wrote:On November 06 2022 08:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:On November 05 2022 00:06 Sermokala wrote:
Again no one but the anti-vax crowd thinks that people are saying that covid will be totally eliminated. And replace covid with a host of other diseases that we've done the same with pretty much without issue and yeah.
I disagree, anti-wax people are not saying that, you were imo. Reinforced with the next sentence. Earlier you were talking about other diseases we have gotten "rid of" with medicine, just to counter BJ's argument which was totally fine. No he's literally doing that right now. Just read any of his posts. He doesn't understand how herd immunity works and seems greatly confused on why every kid gets vaccines before going to school. He's stun locked on not being able to imagine a world where kids grow up and aren't going to school anymore. He constantly frames the argument about kids in school without being able to understand that there are adults in schools somehow and also there are adults where kids go when they're not in school. I was taking about other vaccines that bj got when he was a kid and I was asking him if he understood why he got them. He decided to interpret that as I think that if we just got kids vaccinated everything would be magical rainbows. Can you explain how herd immunity words and how it relates to COVID vaccine mandates for schools? If you support COVID vaccine mandates for school can you explain why you think almost every school district in the country has chosen not to require them? Answer my questions and I'll answer yours again (or link to my posts where I've answered them before). Just so you know I'm acting in good faith I'll answer one of your questions now "Do you know why you were vaccinated against Whooping Cough." Yes, to prevent whooping cough You just answered your own question then. You got the whooping cough vaccine so you wouldn't die from whooping cough, you would give children the covid vaccine so they wouldn't die from covid. You were told to get it before you went to school to ensure the adult population would have gotten it. Its a generational effort to ensure that we have herd immunity to these infectious diseases that we remain vigilant against. if whooping cough or measles died out we wouldn't need to get those vaccines. We don't give children the smallpox vaccine anymore because that disease has died out. Vaccine mandates are run on a state-by-state basis on many merits. Covid being a thing in the past 3 years having a comprehensive generational spanning plan laid out and operating like with other diseases isn't a rational thing yet. Why isn't a rational thing yet? capitalism, its not economical to vaccinate the entire population when herd immunity would take decades to fully establish itself like it has with other diseases. And with the companies being allowed to charge whatever they want for those vaccines starting next year it will be a long time before the economics of it allow it to happen. If we had a healthcare system that was made to benefit people instead of corporations they would be mandated by states across the nation so we can start to build it up like we should. So... you think we can virtually eliminate COVID from schools with the COVID vaccines the same way we have virtually eliminated whooping cough from schools with the pertussis vaccine? You think the COVID vaccines can provide a "generational effort" towards herd immunity against COVID? How many years or generations do you think it will take until we have herd immunity against COVID if we institute comprehensive vaccine mandates like the ones you propose? Also please literally "define" herd immunity for me. Did you take the flu vaccine every year as a child to attend public schools? Do you know why you didn't have to take the flu vaccine to attend public schools? It's not just about schools. The vaccines are incapable of effort they're not people they're medicine. I mean a generation isn't a defined period of time but it would take a few decades of just vaccinating children if that's all we're doing obviously. The tipping point of when a disease no longer a threat to the herd due to factors relating to the disease. No, I did anyway, the flu has multiple dominante strains due to it's unique situation. First, no, that's not the definition of herd immunity. I will supply one: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808Herd immunity occurs when a large portion of a community (the herd) becomes immune to a disease. The spread of disease from person to person becomes unlikely when herd immunity is achieved. As a result, the whole community becomes protected — not just those who are immune. I really can't believe we are talking about Herd Immunity to COVID in November of 2022 given what we know now. So you're still under the impression that we can achieve this? Well that's great news. I'm kind of surprised we haven't achieved it already then since almost everyone in the entire world has either been vaccinated or had COVID already. What do you think is holding that back? All we need is a "few decades of just vaccinating children" to finally get to that sweet spot? Surely these are yearly vaccines though, right? I mean I don't think just getting one when you start elementary school is going to do the trick. But we also don't want to wait until grade school either. I'm thinking we start off with a 3 dose series in infancy, then starting at age 5 we do a yearly booster through grade school and into university. Perhaps after the 20th COVID shot in the 3rd year of university that's going to do the trick then COVID will be behind us! Damn, why aren't more people listening to you?! We need to get the word out on this. Couldn't hold back the gotchas and runaway misrepresenting people for 2 posts that's incredible. Seeing your failure to grasp other concepts I was attempting to provide a good faith effort to explain it to you. But seeing how one of us likes to at least pretend that we argue in good faith let's keep going. I'm not surprised you're unable to believe that we're taking about concepts you brought up. Yes I do. No they haven't anti vaxers like you. I mean if that's the plan sure. I mean no but there are boosters in that vaccine schedule that you got as a kid so you understand the legitimate reason for getting more than one. You go on a weird fantasy tangent trying to make an argument there. I think that's when the hallucinations started for you again. It's hilarious that you then go on to say that the conspiracy theorist that calls people both drone faction is a voice of reason. You do have very low standards for reason on topics you don't grasp well. I'm not even trying to be mean but I actually can't understand any of this
Oh we know bj, we know.
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EPT
