EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 576
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18114 Posts
The EU Covid passport tracks registered past disease. When I went into Portugal over Christmas, their entry policy was that you either needed to have had Covid recently and recovered, or be vaccinated and have a recent negative test. I would have expected boosters to be included in the former cases, but maybe it's hard to check that. Either way, it seemed like a fair enough policy (we just got tested near the border). Similar rules apply in Catalonia for entering a restaurant (natural immunity, vaccinated or a negative test). Insofar as I know, France and Germany follow a similar policy. The main issue is that we don't have very accurate records of who had Covid. If you happened to be taken into the hospital, it's recorded, but for most people who recovered at home, even a positive test was not necessarily recorded in their health record. So knowing who has had Covid already isn't easy. Knowing who got vaccinated however, is easy to the point of triviality: when you go get jabbed it gets registered in the system. So yeah, that means some people will get vaccinated despite having had Covid recently giving them natural immunity, so that their protection against Covid can be recorded. And don't forget that most policy now is informed by how much of the population is protected, in order to avoid swamping the hospitals. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On January 25 2022 16:35 BlackJack wrote: For the United States recognition is not given for natural immunity. I know people that are young, healthy, double vaxxed, and had a recent COVID infection and still have to get a booster or lose their job. I'm sure Pfizer appreciates their support. To be fair, Pfizer gets the money either way. The doses have already been paid for. Whether they go into the garbage upon expiry, incinerator or into arms doesn't matter to them as a company. That being said, I would be mildy annoyed if I had to get a booster to work if I had caught covid after being fully vaccinated. I had no reaction other than a mildly sore arm the next day (far less than the first 2) but I still had to take some time out of my day to do it. At that point, you'd have pretty much maxed out the antibodies for the original strain, and I don't think another dose does a whole lot for increasing protection against anything that comes out now. I'd much rather have a newer, Omicron specific booster, which would hopefully grant the 95% effectivity that the MRNA's had against the early strains to all Omicron sub-lineages. Speaking of new variant, Omicron v2 is out. Now featuring more mutations and even faster spread. If we can learn anything from this, the winning strategy for Plague .Inc is clearly to evolve mutations and transmissibility. https://cbs12.com/news/local/new-covid-variant-detected-in-at-least-40-different-countries https://komonews.com/news/coronavirus/ba2-newest-covid-19-variant-found-in-washington-state-health-officials-say | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18114 Posts
On January 25 2022 17:17 Amui wrote: To be fair, Pfizer gets the money either way. The doses have already been paid for. Whether they go into the garbage upon expiry, incinerator or into arms doesn't matter to them as a company. That being said, I would be mildy annoyed if I had to get a booster to work if I had caught covid after being fully vaccinated. I had no reaction other than a mildly sore arm the next day (far less than the first 2) but I still had to take some time out of my day to do it. At that point, you'd have pretty much maxed out the antibodies for the original strain, and I don't think another dose does a whole lot for increasing protection against anything that comes out now. I'd much rather have a newer, Omicron specific booster, which would hopefully grant the 95% effectivity that the MRNA's had against the early strains to all Omicron sub-lineages. Speaking of new variant, Omicron v2 is out. Now featuring more mutations and even faster spread. If we can learn anything from this, the winning strategy for Plague .Inc is clearly to evolve mutations and transmissibility. https://cbs12.com/news/local/new-covid-variant-detected-in-at-least-40-different-countries https://komonews.com/news/coronavirus/ba2-newest-covid-19-variant-found-in-washington-state-health-officials-say That has always been the winning strategy in plague inc. The problem for us is the next step: after you're good at infecting everybody, mutate a bunch of deadly symptoms. hemorrhagic bleeding is always a good one. Covid started suboptimally though: causing severe respiratory failure before being highly extremely stupidly contagious incentivizes the nasty humans to start developing cures and vaccines too soon. If Covid now mutates into hemorrhagic bleeding or even total organ failure, I think we have enough people immunized to survive it. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 25 2022 16:35 BlackJack wrote: For the United States recognition is not given for natural immunity. I know people that are young, healthy, double vaxxed, and had a recent COVID infection and still have to get a booster or lose their job. I'm sure Pfizer appreciates their support. How many jobs actually require a booster? My job at least wanted us to get vaxed last year and completely overhauled our benefits system to track it. I haven't heard anything about boosters, although I did get mine already. Even the software overhaul was only because they wanted to get ahead of any federal requirements. If there isn't a mandate for boosters there isn't going to be the will power to require them. | ||
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Slydie
1927 Posts
For me, not liking vaccine passports and mandates is more of a principal issue as a social liberal. Freedom can include the right to make stupid decisions (and face the consequences). | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18114 Posts
On January 26 2022 01:12 Slydie wrote: In the end, I am happy about having gotten the booster. I am still slightly in doubt about the medical necessity of it, but the virus is all over the place right now, and being as protected as possible feels great! It is recommended! For me, not liking vaccine passports and mandates is more of a principal issue as a social liberal. Freedom can include the right to make stupid decisions (and face the consequences). Isn't not being able to go to restaurants/events a consequence of the stupid decision to not get vaccinated? Sometimes consequences are natural, but often they are social. Social exclusion for people needlessly risking overloading the medical system seems fair. E: and I say that while having a rather sore arm and what feels like a very slight fever from getting the booster yesterday. It is bothersome. It's still almost certainly better than actually getting COVID. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On January 26 2022 02:07 Acrofales wrote: Isn't not being able to go to restaurants/events a consequence of the stupid decision to not get vaccinated? Sometimes consequences are natural, but often they are social. Social exclusion for people needlessly risking overloading the medical system seems fair. E: and I say that while having a rather sore arm and what feels like a very slight fever from getting the booster yesterday. It is bothersome. It's still almost certainly better than actually getting COVID. Your last statement there really makes it sound like you're still under the illusion that this is an either/or situation. | ||
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Slydie
1927 Posts
On January 26 2022 02:07 Acrofales wrote: Isn't not being able to go to restaurants/events a consequence of the stupid decision to not get vaccinated? Sometimes consequences are natural, but often they are social. Social exclusion for people needlessly risking overloading the medical system seems fair. E: and I say that while having a rather sore arm and what feels like a very slight fever from getting the booster yesterday. It is bothersome. It's still almost certainly better than actually getting COVID. For me, there is a very important difference when the consequence is enforced by authority or policies. You can use your logic to justify all suppression: "You had sex with a man? Well, you knew the consequences..." The "overload the HC system" argument is still used, but at least in Europe, it doesn't hold up in anymore, as the load is no higher than what is normal at this time of the year. They even know it, but it is a game of chicken where nobody wants to be the first to see how it goes, even though South Africa and UK have shown the way. The Faroe Islands has fired, though, and will lift restrictions very soon (sorry, could not find source). | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On January 26 2022 00:01 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: How many jobs actually require a booster? My job at least wanted us to get vaxed last year and completely overhauled our benefits system to track it. I haven't heard anything about boosters, although I did get mine already. Even the software overhaul was only because they wanted to get ahead of any federal requirements. If there isn't a mandate for boosters there isn't going to be the will power to require them. Boosters were required for us due to government mandate. Some companies have gone even further than the government requires them to in terms of requiring boosters. Here's an article that has some information https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2022/01/17/apple-is-now-requiring-workers-to-show-proof-of-a-booster-shot/ | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4733 Posts
a man in US is refused heart transplant, at least in part due to him refusing vaccination. EDIT: This has crossed into the domain of religious belief. I mean, he knows, he is going to die if he doesnt receive heart, yet he still prefers dying to being vaccinated. This is very similiar situation, to my jehovah witness grandmother. She refused lifesaving treatment due to her religious beliefs. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
Cigarettes are heavily taxed in most countries which kinda pays for the additionnal healthcare costs. Same with alcohol. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4733 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 26 2022 17:23 BlackJack wrote: Boosters were required for us due to government mandate. Some companies have gone even further than the government requires them to in terms of requiring boosters. Here's an article that has some information https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2022/01/17/apple-is-now-requiring-workers-to-show-proof-of-a-booster-shot/ too bad the first paragraph says this right Apple will call upon all unvaccinated employees to show negative Covid-19 rapid antigen tests before they are able to enter the workplace, starting on January 24. not required if you can just do rapid tests. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21952 Posts
On January 26 2022 22:46 JimmiC wrote: When your philosophy is build around 'government bad, free market good' you can't then shout at the free market making companies protect their productivity by mandating (or heavily pushing for) vaccination as tyrannical. So you blame the government for something they are not doing.You know apple, meta citbank goldman and so on are not the governmet right? The only hint of gov in your article is that the state of Hawii "may". All the harshest mandates were from private companies and iys "comservatives" trying to get law makers to make rules against businesses requiring vaccines or boosters. Say it like it is, major US companies ate mandatimg their staff for vaccination and some are starting to for boosters. Some governments may follow their lead though none have. I do not get this approach of yours at all, spme strange business is good gov is bad so blame them thing? On January 26 2022 22:50 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: I doubt many people are willing to put up with daily tests for god knows how long just to avoid a quick jab of a needle in their arm.too bad the first paragraph says this right not required if you can just do rapid tests. Which is ofcourse the whole point, offer an option besides vaccination that is cumbersome enough that people don't want to chose that option and instead quit or get vaccinated. | ||
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