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Solid news. Vaccines are a great preventative tool, but if we have treatment tools as well to bring down severity of covid, it'll be a big boon. Treatment options are the thing we're lacking most right now. Ideally we use what little of it can be produced to protect vaccinated elderly people. They're the most likely to need some help despite the presence of a vaccine.
If supplies are greater, then allocating some to general usage might be alright, but I'd expect supplies to be tight for the first months of availability.
Edit::
Seems like it's also much cheaper to administer, $700USD for a 5 day course for one person.
Well worth it if it keeps someone out of the hospital.
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On October 02 2021 01:01 Lmui wrote:Solid news. Vaccines are a great preventative tool, but if we have treatment tools as well to bring down severity of covid, it'll be a big boon. Treatment options are the thing we're lacking most right now. Ideally we use what little of it can be produced to protect vaccinated elderly people. They're the most likely to need some help despite the presence of a vaccine. If supplies are greater, then allocating some to general usage might be alright, but I'd expect supplies to be tight for the first months of availability. Edit:: Seems like it's also much cheaper to administer, $700USD for a 5 day course for one person. Well worth it if it keeps someone out of the hospital.
But they way it works is by making the virus mutate rapidly where it can't create viable copies anymore. And what if it also increases mutation rate in your cells? In the wikipedia article on this drug theres mention of some whistleblower being worried about this.
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On October 02 2021 02:39 teeel141 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2021 01:01 Lmui wrote:Solid news. Vaccines are a great preventative tool, but if we have treatment tools as well to bring down severity of covid, it'll be a big boon. Treatment options are the thing we're lacking most right now. Ideally we use what little of it can be produced to protect vaccinated elderly people. They're the most likely to need some help despite the presence of a vaccine. If supplies are greater, then allocating some to general usage might be alright, but I'd expect supplies to be tight for the first months of availability. Edit:: Seems like it's also much cheaper to administer, $700USD for a 5 day course for one person. Well worth it if it keeps someone out of the hospital. But they way it works is by making the virus mutate rapidly where it can't create viable copies anymore. And what if it also increases mutation rate in your cells? In the wikipedia article on this drug theres mention of some whistleblower being worried about this.
Results are promising enough that they've submitted it for EUA in the USA. There may be side-effects, even serious ones, but odds are, it's less serious than covid. Also, your cells/cellular replication processes generally have better error checking than a virus. I'm just a layman, but the odds of it causing cancer in the long run or something should be low. Either way, it's a far better short term solution than we've had previously.
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On October 02 2021 02:39 teeel141 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2021 01:01 Lmui wrote:Solid news. Vaccines are a great preventative tool, but if we have treatment tools as well to bring down severity of covid, it'll be a big boon. Treatment options are the thing we're lacking most right now. Ideally we use what little of it can be produced to protect vaccinated elderly people. They're the most likely to need some help despite the presence of a vaccine. If supplies are greater, then allocating some to general usage might be alright, but I'd expect supplies to be tight for the first months of availability. Edit:: Seems like it's also much cheaper to administer, $700USD for a 5 day course for one person. Well worth it if it keeps someone out of the hospital. But they way it works is by making the virus mutate rapidly where it can't create viable copies anymore. And what if it also increases mutation rate in your cells? In the wikipedia article on this drug theres mention of some whistleblower being worried about this.
If it is worse than what it is trying to treat then it won't be prescribed. The small pox vaccine already exists and is rarely used for exactly this reason. If you're an American you probably didn't get a small pox vaccine unless you got deployed as a member of the military. Having small pox while you're deployed is a huge risk so it shifts to where it is worthwhile. For the average American, small pox is eradicated and you don't get the vaccine.
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Some pretty good news about longer dosage intervals used in BC specifically. Seems that around 7-8 weeks is the ideal length of time between your first and second shot. Shorter intervals are not as protective against infection as longer intervals, and the difference is pretty big. Waiting 8 weeks instead of 3 weeks pretty much halves your risk of infection.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/0uUyxNO.png)
There's also some other info on that page if anyone cares to look at the pdf, including the fact that AZ+mRNA is just as effective as 2x mRNA. Sample size of ~246k people.
Source: http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/COVID_sitrep/2021-09-23-Data-Summary.pdf page 30
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On October 01 2021 22:31 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2021 19:09 BlackJack wrote:On October 01 2021 08:24 JimmiC wrote:On October 01 2021 07:26 BlackJack wrote:On October 01 2021 00:55 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Jimmy, I see no point in responding to that. I don't think you understand what I think about Covid, I don't think it's my fault for not expressing myself clearly enough, but I also don't care enough about going further with this. It's entirely cool with me that you think Covid is a much bigger problem than what I think it is, and if you want to think it's as big of a deal today as the spanish flu was 102 years ago, that's also fine with me. Smart move. You'll realize it's a huge waste of time to engage with him. The guy is literally posting flu statistics from the last week in September to argue that the flu is not that bad. Maybe I'll argue that heat-related illness is not that bad by posting some statistics from Norway in the winter. People want to call out GoTunk for arguing in bad faith but then they let this bullshit slip by. I can't be the only person in this thread that knows how a typical flu season progresses. On October 01 2021 00:52 JimmiC wrote:
Georgia is part of the Influenza monitoring network. 2018-2019 was a bad year for the flu. Georgia has had lots of Covid spread lets compare the numbers.
In week 40 Sept 29- oct 5 2019 they had 0 deaths and 3 hospitalizaons.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/qKtK0TG.jpg) On October 01 2021 03:23 JimmiC wrote:
I clearly showed in Georgia with over the same amount of time 3 people died from the flu and 553 fully vaccinated people died from Covid.
You clearly showed that you're arguing in bad faith and it's embarrassing. I litterly compared this week to this week and 40 weeks to 40 weeks to show it is true in both. I specifically picked the worst 40 weeks again to further this point. I also am not trying to show the "flu is not that bad", I dont even know what that means. The flu was being used as a point of comparrision to show that Covid is not that bad, in this case for the unvaccinated. When comparing two things you need the information from both to make the comparrison, that is how it works. If you dont you end up making a lot of faulty conclusions based on a faulty assumption. (Which sadly is a good summary of your posting history on this thread). You seem to be mixing the week to day and 40 werk to 40 week together to try to prove a point. I hope its accidental but given your history and loose use of "disengenious" for people who disagree with you it seems unlikely. Also since the post is one page ago if you were being honest I struggle with why you wouldnt just quote it or link it rather then cut and paste it to make it say something diffetent. Here is a further explanation for those who dont want jump back a page and see the entire post The image shows 0 deaths for that week and 3 hospitalizations. I compared that to yesterday (so one day not a week) of deaths and hospitalizations with covid. Below is the full quote, I use the percentages stated of unvaccinated to come up with a estimation, explain that it is one and explain and show how I came up with it. I also post the sources. This is the opposite of disengenious, im not sure you understand the word. Im being generous to drones perspective by comparing a week of flu to a day of Covid.
Notice I will be comparing a full week in 2019 to a single day and the day is WAY worse and it is much better then a few weeks ago!
Yesterday they had 265 total covid hospitalizations and 129 deaths'.
They do not on the daily release the numbers vaccinated vs unvaccinated but from the various news reports it ranges from 84-92% of the hospitalizations are unvaccinated. 13% of 265 is 34.5 DRAMATICLY higher than 3, agree?
Only 3% of the deaths since January have been vaccinated. So they would have 8 Vaccinated people die yesterday (based on averages) compared to 0 for the entire week in 2019. DRAMATICLY higher then 0, agree?
The reason being if this is just like the flu, or even less which is the point I was arguing about, covid should also be at a low point. That it is not should tell you about how accurate that comparisons is. Next I take two time periods both which include the the high times for the flu, which is winter and fall. If you notice I actually anticipate you will say it is just a strange week and to counter it and show this is not the case I do the entire HIGH period of the flu. Maybe you are thinking it is a crazy week.
so lets look at 2021.
There were 10,055 covid deaths. 553 of those were fully vaccinated individuals. There were 2118 hospitalizations of vaccinated people.
At influenza including A B A nd B and unknown. This is cumulative data since sept 27,2020 40 weeks. Deaths from the flu 3, Hospitalizations 38!!!!! Im hoping because in the weekly to one comparrison and the 40 week comparrison (the 12 weeks I didnt use was from may to the end of aug for the flu and tge 40 weeks for covid were jan to last friday. I cant do a full year because the vaccine has not existed that long) they both have a 3 you got confused. But in the weekly one it is hospitalizations and in the other it is dealths. In the future you should reread the posts and make sure you fully understand them before jumping to conclusions. It will save you insulting someone and actually doing what you are accusing them of doing. Which is quite embarassing. Another thing you might want to do is quote the entire post. You can then either highlight the important part or if you want to make it shorter you can spoiler the other part. This will keep the context and allow you to not be disengenious by pulling random sentences out. It can also help you well you are posting because you can then easily read the entire posts and if this is an accident it can help you from making it because you can read the whole thing instead of making up the context. Do not worry about apologizing, the laughs are well worth the effort!  Am I supposed to read all this? You can post all the verbal diarrhea you want to obfuscate that you were arguing in bad faith. Everybody here is smart enough to know that flu propagates in the winter. You seriously took the time to upload a data table to tell us that nobody died from the flu in Georgia from the week of Sep 29 to Oct 5 2019 as if that means anything. Guess what, nobody died of the flu in Georgia in all of September 2019, and all of August, and all of July, and all of June. I don't even need to look up statistics to know this. Then you even have the nerve to write "Im being generous to drones perspective by comparing a week of flu to a day of Covid." lol Sorry man I should have known from your first post you couldnt read the quotes or you wouldnt have posted something so stupid. Yes I compared now to now. Because we were comparing it to the flu, if they are the same it should be low too. (Giving the flu a week andncovid one day) But then I also compared 40 weeks to weeks and used the.highest 40 weeks for flu season. That you still dont get it and keep coming back for more is really really embarassing! You are really flaunting what determines your oitlook in everything. Wllful ignorance mixed with confirmation bias all packaged in arrogant misplaced anger. + Show Spoiler +if you cant handle the commitment of 2 full minites to read a post, save yourself the 10 plus minutes responding, it is not only a better time saver but it will sabe whay little credibility you have left.
If you truly don't understand how a seasonal illness works and why it's stupid to compare covid deaths to flu deaths when the flu isn't even in season then I will take your word for it. I'm sorry for accusing you of arguing in bad faith, I just couldn't believe anyone would make such a terrible argument earnestly.
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Some of my friends back home finally got the jab after a long wait. Not quite happy, because they didn't get the vaccines that they wanted and people in general have complained they feel little to no side effects. Rather not name the vaccine, but let's just say it isn't Western-made and the efficacy stats aren't as great (and also the uncertainty whether it will be widely internationally recognised for international travel)...
Anyway, they're slightly mad because the government desperately wants to reopen fully and to hit the vaccination target. Most older folks seem to get the 'better' vaccines. Friends are healthy enough not to be overly worried of being less innoculated than the others. They're happy to finally get their long overdue vaccine appointments. But they just feel jaded about the double standards of the vaccination queue and soft mandates. Some would rather wait a while longer to get their vaccine of choice, little risk to infection since country was in lockdown for months anyway. Some feel cheated - the government doesn't think that our type is at risk anyway (due to long delay and lesser vaccine), so why do we have to suffer with everyone during lockdown (just isolate the vulnerable ones while they wait for vaccination)? It's not really a sense of selfishness, but a feeling of betrayal - they would be happy to wait, stay home and comply if the government was more transparent about the risks to different segments of society (everyone lockdown, everyone just wait and be patient while we identify and vaccinate the vulnerable folks first, thanks for the sacrifice!)
Just thought of sharing why some people may be fully on board with vaccines, but still unhappy with the vaccination drive and policies.
(They're an odd mix of highly educated small business and professional folks. Feel free to criticise them, but none of your political stereotypings, please.)
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On October 02 2021 12:15 RKC wrote:
Some of my friends back home finally got the jab after a long wait. Not quite happy, because they didn't get the vaccines that they wanted and people in general have complained they feel little to no side effects. Rather not name the vaccine, but let's just say it isn't Western-made and the efficacy stats aren't as great (and also the uncertainty whether it will be widely internationally recognised for international travel)...
Anyway, they're slightly mad because the government desperately wants to reopen fully and to hit the vaccination target. Most older folks seem to get the 'better' vaccines. Friends are healthy enough not to be overly worried of being less innoculated than the others. They're happy to finally get their long overdue vaccine appointments. But they just feel jaded about the double standards of the vaccination queue and soft mandates. Some would rather wait a while longer to get their vaccine of choice, little risk to infection since country was in lockdown for months anyway. Some feel cheated - the government doesn't think that our type is at risk anyway (due to long delay and lesser vaccine), so why do we have to suffer with everyone during lockdown (just isolate the vulnerable ones while they wait for vaccination)? It's not really a sense of selfishness, but a feeling of betrayal - they would be happy to wait, stay home and comply if the government was more transparent about the risks to different segments of society (everyone lockdown, everyone just wait and be patient while we identify and vaccinate the vulnerable folks first, thanks for the sacrifice!)
Just thought of sharing why some people may be fully on board with vaccines, but still unhappy with the vaccination drive and policies.
(They're an odd mix of highly educated small business and professional folks. Feel free to criticise them, but none of your political stereotypings, please.)
At least for me when I hear that your friends are eager to get the best vaccines available, that's actually quite uplifting. I'm beginning to get a little desperate for that kind of news. In my own family everyone except for my dad is on board with vaccination.
I wish my colleagues were more like your friends. Half of them refuse to get vaccinated and I don't think anything can change their minds except for when they lose the remainder of their privileges. A few weeks ago it became apparent during a conversation that one of them was completely unaware that a huge wave had happened in India in 2021, he really had no idea. I thought most people knew this, meanwhile he was perplexed to learn that this news had gone around the globe and he hadn't heard a thing about it. I mean it was almost as big of a story as the initial outbreak in China, or was it not? Or maybe my head's too much in it all.
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On October 02 2021 13:07 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2021 12:15 RKC wrote:
Some of my friends back home finally got the jab after a long wait. Not quite happy, because they didn't get the vaccines that they wanted and people in general have complained they feel little to no side effects. Rather not name the vaccine, but let's just say it isn't Western-made and the efficacy stats aren't as great (and also the uncertainty whether it will be widely internationally recognised for international travel)...
Anyway, they're slightly mad because the government desperately wants to reopen fully and to hit the vaccination target. Most older folks seem to get the 'better' vaccines. Friends are healthy enough not to be overly worried of being less innoculated than the others. They're happy to finally get their long overdue vaccine appointments. But they just feel jaded about the double standards of the vaccination queue and soft mandates. Some would rather wait a while longer to get their vaccine of choice, little risk to infection since country was in lockdown for months anyway. Some feel cheated - the government doesn't think that our type is at risk anyway (due to long delay and lesser vaccine), so why do we have to suffer with everyone during lockdown (just isolate the vulnerable ones while they wait for vaccination)? It's not really a sense of selfishness, but a feeling of betrayal - they would be happy to wait, stay home and comply if the government was more transparent about the risks to different segments of society (everyone lockdown, everyone just wait and be patient while we identify and vaccinate the vulnerable folks first, thanks for the sacrifice!)
Just thought of sharing why some people may be fully on board with vaccines, but still unhappy with the vaccination drive and policies.
(They're an odd mix of highly educated small business and professional folks. Feel free to criticise them, but none of your political stereotypings, please.) At least for me when I hear that your friends are eager to get the best vaccines available, that's actually quite uplifting. I'm beginning to get a little desperate for that kind of news. In my own family everyone except for my dad is on board with vaccination. I wish my colleagues were more like your friends. Half of them refuse to get vaccinated and I don't think anything can change their minds except for when they lose the remainder of their privileges. A few weeks ago it became apparent during a conversation that one of them was completely unaware that a huge wave had happened in India in 2021, he really had no idea. I thought most people knew this, meanwhile he was perplexed to learn that this news had gone around the globe and he hadn't heard a thing about it. I mean it was almost as big of a story as the initial outbreak in China, or was it not? Or maybe my head's too much in it all.
Your dad is not an outlier. Many of our parents (including my own) were initially worried of the vaccines. By no means anti-vax, but just cautious and taking the wait-and-see approach. Most of them happily stay home anyway and can depend on us kids to help get them necessaries, so they are quite safe.
Anyway, this also feeds to my friends' gradual disillusionment. The belief that the whole COVID risk-management strategy is aimed to vaccinate the hesitant and hard to reach vulnerable older folks. And that the government has to apply the rule for all (even if most are really not at risk) to achieve this essential goal of keeping our old folks safe.
It's just a suspicion and opinion floating in the periphery of their thoughts, from the conversation flow...
(It's up lifting to the extent that my friends trust the government and health authority to make the right decision. Their decision to vaccinate is not borne out so much out of science, but the trust that authorities follow science. The danger, as LiquidDrone pointed out, is to maintain that level of trust that can be easily lost by a single misstep. They cherish certainty, and will get on board with anything the governments say or do to have that certainty. Personally, being more on a libertarian side, I'm uneasy with their kind of overly pragmatic and transactional approach to life, especially health. If the government suddenly says tomorrow that people have to take a new vaccine to earn their freedom even if the vaccine is some mumbo-jumbo, they'll gladly jump in line just to get their business and life humming. This somewhat explains my own concern of only-vaxxers - a broad term encompassing people who follow the program simply out of self-interest, without much deep thinking about long-term consequences. Anyway, sorry that this additional side note turned out longer than the original post!)
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On October 02 2021 23:27 JimmiC wrote:
If it was dangerous people would speak out, especially doctors, if you remember at the begining of Covid there was 4 doctors in Russia who said covid was dangerous and it was there and they "fell"out windows. All people dont just fall in line and many many doctors take their hypocratic oath extremely seriously, to the point that puts themselves in danger.
But uh... many many doctors and scientists do speak out? You don't hear or see them because the power of the media is very great. And if they do have a platform and reach people, they are smeared in various ways.
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I won't argue much further as I'm liable to get banned but you are wrong, and what you write is a testament to how much power modern media has. There are many well respected doctors and scientists that speak out. Even nobel prize winners. Definitely not chiropractors. They are not selling anything. On the contrary, it is the pro-vaccine lobby that profits. Obviously.
User was warned for this post.
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On October 04 2021 23:52 Jean Luc Picard wrote:
I won't argue much further as I'm liable to get banned but you are wrong, and what you write is a testament to how much power modern media has. There are many well respected doctors and scientists that speak out. Even nobel prize winners. Definitely not chiropractors. They are not selling anything. On the contrary, it is the pro-vaccine lobby that profits. Obviously.
What is a pro-vaccine lobby? You mean the people who are saving millions of lives by advocating for vaccines?
Also, the important part should be whether or not an argument is reasonable/valid, not who is actually saying something. If a Nobel prize winner says 2+2=7 or that vaccines mutate your DNA, their statements are just as absurd as if a ten-year-old made them.
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On October 04 2021 23:52 Jean Luc Picard wrote:
I won't argue much further as I'm liable to get banned but you are wrong, and what you write is a testament to how much power modern media has. There are many well respected doctors and scientists that speak out. Even nobel prize winners. Definitely not chiropractors. They are not selling anything. On the contrary, it is the pro-vaccine lobby that profits. Obviously.
Notice how you didn't cite anything? That is below the standard in this group. You aren't convincing anyone with your juvenile methods here.
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Its a testimate to how much power modern media has that people are confident in spouting random nonsense with no evidence, believing it as fervently as any church going bible thumper.
At least the neo nazies I've had the displeasure to find in real life try to find some sort of grounding for their beliefs. Pro covid people eat up propaganda and march to their herman cain awards.
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Northern Ireland25484 Posts
On October 04 2021 23:52 Jean Luc Picard wrote:
I won't argue much further as I'm liable to get banned but you are wrong, and what you write is a testament to how much power modern media has. There are many well respected doctors and scientists that speak out. Even nobel prize winners. Definitely not chiropractors. They are not selling anything. On the contrary, it is the pro-vaccine lobby that profits. Obviously.
User was warned for this post.
Who? Profits how?
Media has power but, at least in a directed, non-fragmented sense this power is overstated. Only have to look at vaccine skepticism rates for this.
Also disappointed Jean Luc Picard deigns to post such bollocks. Respected his work as a Starfleet Captain.
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One very curious thing is that the EU and others gave billions of Euro for vaccine research at a very early stage:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/research-and-innovation/research-area/health-research-and-innovation/coronavirus-research-and-innovation/vaccines_en
But part of the deal for getting that money was not maximizing vaccine prices once they were out afaik, they are sold more or less for production cost. Market economy is not quite functional in this case, and we should all be very happy for it!
It is very interesting to see how the different vaccine intervals can have different effects. Here in Spain, it was mostly given at the minimum interval, which is very fast and convenient, but might not give the best protection against symptomatic disease.
Booster shots are also inevitably coming to Europe, starting with people with compromised immune systems:
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/comirnaty-spikevax-ema-recommendations-extra-doses-boosters
I don't think anyone knows if "antibody levels" are the equivalent of protection, but as so many governing bodies use the metric, there should be something to it.
Edit: what I mean is that you might be well protected against infection despite a low level of antibodies.
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EPT
