EPTBut... I still support vaccines because the fear of the virus and anti-virus measures are also very serious, so vaccines will probably help against that even though young kids strictly speaking won't need it.
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Slydie
1927 Posts
But... I still support vaccines because the fear of the virus and anti-virus measures are also very serious, so vaccines will probably help against that even though young kids strictly speaking won't need it. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
On September 15 2021 23:30 Slydie wrote: The main issue for me with vaccinating children is how well protected they are already. It is already a freak incident that children below 12 get hospitalized for covid, so it has to be evaluated against freak incidents because of side effects. I doubt the initial studies will be anywhere close to reaching a definite conclusion about this as the sample sizes might need to be in the millions. But... I still support vaccines because the fear of the virus and anti-virus measures are also very serious, so vaccines will probably help against that even though young kids strictly speaking won't need it. Children can still be carriers and they are rather effective carriers as they tend to be less discriminatory about where they put their mucus. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
On September 15 2021 22:59 Magic Powers wrote: So once again you didn't understand a single thing in my comment. Maybe you should write a better comment! Just for funsies your first paragraph: The results for the trials on children aged 5 years to 12 years will likely be revealed this month. These doctors who inject children before approval are personally responsible for side effects. They accept this "risk" because they've read the results and they see that the Pfizer vaccine is safe for this age group. You see, that there is something wrong there!? Aside from that, what I understood: We got local government agencies, that are responsible to approve drugs - or in this case vaccination for a certain age group. And you say, that they are stupid/too slow and we just go for it, everything is fine and all that do so are great! Is this correct? Because that's what I understood and I was the "advocatus diabolus" and said, that you can't just ignore the agencies, or we could throw them all out! I'm quite open to talk about that they could do a better job and such things. But just ignore them because emergency is a little easy! > https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/details-of-the-infant-fish-oil-story Here a nice completely unrelated story about slow reactions, bureaucracy and drug approval! | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
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xM(Z
Romania5296 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15725 Posts
On September 16 2021 00:40 Geisterkarle wrote: Maybe you should write a better comment! Just for funsies your first paragraph: You see, that there is something wrong there!? Aside from that, what I understood: We got local government agencies, that are responsible to approve drugs - or in this case vaccination for a certain age group. And you say, that they are stupid/too slow and we just go for it, everything is fine and all that do so are great! Is this correct? Because that's what I understood and I was the "advocatus diabolus" and said, that you can't just ignore the agencies, or we could throw them all out! I'm quite open to talk about that they could do a better job and such things. But just ignore them because emergency is a little easy! > https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/details-of-the-infant-fish-oil-story Here a nice completely unrelated story about slow reactions, bureaucracy and drug approval! It is common for governments to be given preliminary results early before final results being released to the public. In many cases of chemical/medical regulation, the writing is on the wall and everyone is 99% sure how things will turn out once you're about 70-80% done with your experiments/analysis. That is why I got my 3rd vaccine dose over a month ago. Right now people are just waiting for bureaucracy to work itself out. 1) 3rd dose is literally identical to the 1st and 2nd dose 2) mRNA vaccine interactions with human bodies are really straight forward because you use your own body to build proteins Here's how vaccines work: Imagine your country was going to be attacked by dragons in 1 month. If these dragons showed up without you having any time to train/practice, they would probably kill you. But if you were able to create fake dragons for all of your military to practice against, you would be able to develop strategies for defeating dragons. Imagine if you were able to send a spy to dragon-land and get a really good set of measurements on what size and shape the dragons were. Now you get to go home and tell people how to build fake dragons to practice on. After a month, your military has developed specialized weapons that are extremely effective at fighting exactly the type of dragons that will attack you. Your military creates a special, huge weapon that is able to chop off dragon heads. Without the month of practice/preparation, you would never have these dragon head choppers at your disposal. You'd just be shooting guns at the dragons and you'd probably lose. mRNA vaccines have blue prints for creating fake dragons. When you inject these blueprints into your body, your cells will create fake dragons. When your immune system sees these fake dragons, they don't know the dragons are fake, so they start trying to find ways to kill the dragons. Luckily, the dragons are fake, so they don't replicate and they don't actually attack anything. So after a month of studying and killing these fake dragons, once the REAL dragons show up, your body has developed methods of chopping off dragon heads. Now lets imagine some time goes by and the dragon kingdom has developed viagra, which has a huge impact on dragon horniness. The dragon government decides to just dump viagra in their water system so that everyone is constantly fucking, drastically increasing birthrates. Now the dragon population is 300x (delta variant is 300x the viral load of last year's covid) what it used to be. Even though your military has a bunch of dragon head choppers, there are simply too many dragons to kill. Sure, you kill a bunch of them, but there are just so many that you end up taking significant damage and perhaps the dragons even take over some cities. Now lets imagine if instead of your body only having 1 month to prepare, your body has 2 months to prepare (3rd vax dose). This would be like if you sent a second set of scouts to spy on the dragon kingdom and found out they are all chugging viagra. Now your scouts come home and say "hey, I know you guys just made a bunch of weapons, but there is still a threat because there are so many dragons". This is what happens to your immune system when you take a 3rd dose. After your body "fights off" the fake dragons, when they hear the dragons are actually a threat again, your body just starts creating a shit load of dragon head choppers. The 3rd vax dose increases antibody (dragon head choppers) by 3-4 orders of magnitude, which means 1000x-10,000x improvement. So sure, there are 300x more dragons (delta variant), but now that you have 1000x more head choppers (higher antibody count due to 3rd dose), you can deal with all the viagra dragons. Despite all of their long nights of passionate fucking, they still get owned because you had a giant fleet of head choppers. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On September 15 2021 18:55 Magic Powers wrote: Delta is currently getting out of control in several states. To say that lockdowns would be an overreaction would be highly contentious to say the least, and if you're not aware of that then there's key information that you're missing. It can always be debated at which point lockdowns start to make sense. Your stance is that even in a state like Florida it wouldn't make sense, is that correct? Deaths and hospitalizations are currently climbing there to unprecedented levels. I don't know why you would post something that is false and could be confirmed with a 12 second google search. Hospitalizations are not climbing in Florida. They are declining and have been for a couple weeks now. https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/09/14/florida-covid-hospitalizations-under-11000/ Florida continues to see reduced numbers of patients hospitalized with COVID-19. A reported 10,979 COVID-19 patients were hospitalized Tuesday at 228 Florida hospitals, according to data posted on the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services website. A week earlier, 13,628 patients at 229 Florida hospitals were reported as having COVID-19. Although I will grant you that deaths are still climbing and may never fall unless we see a "night of the living dead" type of situation. | ||
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Yurie
11932 Posts
On September 16 2021 01:19 JimmiC wrote: If only it was 100% and we didnt have to live with thr monetary and societal costs of the feelings over facts crew. I don't like that argument. They are in many cases the same people that are against refugees, which is to a large degree a feelings stance to be in support of. I would not argue against self-centred over facts crew. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26093 Posts
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On September 15 2021 23:19 Arghmyliver wrote: "My view is that lockdowns should only be used to prevent a catastrophic collapse of the healthcare system, e.g. hospitals running out of oxygen, people dying of treatable illnesses because they can't get seen by a doctor, etc." So you're ok with lockdowns then, bc that is exactly what is happening. "I've heard estimates of 1.4 Billion with a B children missing out on school." Source? The entire population of the world under 18 is ~2.4 billion. I call bullshit. Out of curiosity, which of the people you know are you ok with condemning to death? You might want to let them know how you feel about them. I don't care if YOU die, but in general I prefer if my acquaintances remain amoung the living. Please continue to let me know about anyone who visits Florida so I can do my best to avoid them. (Tbh I thought they were doing better than nine tourists a year before Covid, but I admit I do my best to ignore Florida whenever possible). https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/05/17/years-dont-wait-them/increased-inequalities-childrens-right-education-due-covid# By April, an unprecedented 1.4 billion students were shut out of their pre-primary, primary, and secondary schools in more than 190 countries, in an effort to slow the spread of the novel coronavirus. Btw are you okay with any COVID deaths? Or do you demand 0 COVID deaths which would only be achievable with some kind of nationwide authoritarian lockdown with the national guard patrolling the streets? If you are okay with "Some" deaths then who do you know that you are ok with condemning to death?? See how ridiculous your argument sounds when it gets flipped on you? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
On September 16 2021 01:35 BlackJack wrote: https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/05/17/years-dont-wait-them/increased-inequalities-childrens-right-education-due-covid# Btw are you okay with any COVID deaths? Or do you demand 0 COVID deaths which would only be achievable with some kind of nationwide authoritarian lockdown with the national guard patrolling the streets? If you are okay with "Some" deaths then who do you know that you are ok with condemning to death?? See how ridiculous your argument sounds when it gets flipped on you? I suggest we do all in our power to combat the deadly virus to reduce deaths to a minimum. I am not so naïve as to assume we could prevent every single death. This would not be achievable even in the event of a "nationwide authoritarian lockdown with the national guard patrolling the streets." That is not a reason to not try. Only a Sith deals in absolutes. And thank you for clarifying, per your source, 1.4 billion had their education interrupted in some way, that does not mean 1.4 billion are "missing out on school." So like I said, bullshit . | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On September 16 2021 00:40 Geisterkarle wrote: You see, that there is something wrong there!? No, I don't see. Please entertain us and tell us what is wrong. Edit: You know what, please don't waste your time and energy on me. I don't really care what you have to say anyway. It should be obvious why some doctors feel confident in the safety and efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine for little children, as the trials have been ongoing since March and nothing of worry was found. The end point of the last trial was delayed due to concerns not directly related to that trial. They were asked to take more time to be extra extra extra sure that those specific (and rare) findings of myocarditis in other age groups wouldn't also show up in the 5-12 age group. The crucial piece of information is that thousands of healthy children have been subjected to Pfizer vaccination. These vaccinations have been performed under the watchful eye of the FDA. To argue that there are ethical concerns with individual doctors already offering Pfizer vaccines to children of the same age group is absurd - essentially the same exact process has already been going on for over half a year in the trials. The difference between a healthy child signing up for a trial and a healthy child signing up outside of a nearly completed trial is... what exactly? Right, if anything the latter should be considered far safer. In other words, if those individual doctors are being unethical in any capacity, then the Pfizer trials would've been a hundred times more unethical. It takes a lot of brainpower to come to a different conclusion. So if the ethics of individual doctors are under question, but not the ethics of Pfizer, then why in hell have no alarms been raised earlier? Exactly. There are no ethical concerns, Geisterkarle is just very selectively concerned. If he's even truly concerned in the first place. https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/covid-vaccine-for-kids-under-12-doctors-give-latest-look-at-timing-on-study-results/2608503/ | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On September 16 2021 01:29 BlackJack wrote: I don't know why you would post something that is false and could be confirmed with a 12 second google search. Hospitalizations are not climbing in Florida. They are declining and have been for a couple weeks now. https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/09/14/florida-covid-hospitalizations-under-11000/ Although I will grant you that deaths are still climbing and may never fall unless we see a "night of the living dead" type of situation. A very recent dip in hospitalizations means I was wrong about hospitalizations climbing? I see you're far more rigorious with my knowledge than your own. If we applied your own standard to your own claims, this thread would quickly turn into a garbage pile of myth busting (we've seen a glimpse of it during your ping pong with JimmiC). | ||
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