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Coronavirus and You - Page 410

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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control.

It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you.

Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly.

This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here.

Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-28 01:39:02
July 28 2021 01:37 GMT
#8181
--- Nuked ---
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4456 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-28 08:27:58
July 28 2021 08:25 GMT
#8182
7 child patients admitted to ICU with 2,650 cases statewide.Is this because of the obesity rate in Alabama?

For context UK data from actual studies showed that the risk to children under 18 of being admitted to ICU was 1 in 38,911 with a death rate of around 2 per million.

https://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2021/july/ncmd-covidrisks.html

One preprint study*, published on the medRxiv server, found that 251 young people aged under 18 in England were admitted to intensive care with Covid-19 during the first year of the pandemic (until the end of February 2021).

Looking separately at PIMS-TS*, a rare inflammatory syndrome in children caused by Covid-19, the researchers found that 309 young people were admitted to intensive care with this condition – equating to an absolute risk of one in 38,911.

A linked preprint study**, also published on the medRxiv server and looking at data for England, concluded that 25 children and young people had died as a result of Covid-19, equating to an absolute risk of death from Covid-19 of one in 481,000, or approximately two in a million.


Additionally Dr Whittaker of Imperial College London states that Delta variant has had no real impact on these figures

Dr Elizabeth Whittaker (Imperial College London) said: “It is reassuring that these findings reflect our clinical experience in hospital – we see very few seriously unwell children. Although this data covers up to February 2021, this hasn’t changed recently with the Delta variant. We hope this data will be reassuring for children and young people and their families.”


I'd suggest those numbers of 7 out of 2,650 child cases being in ICU either they are drastically undercounting the number of COVID cases in kids in Alabama or that kids in Alabama are more obese and unhealthy than UK kids.Likely a combination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4456 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-28 09:21:31
July 28 2021 09:20 GMT
#8183
Sydney has been locked down for around 5 weeks and today an extension of a further four weeks was announced meaning that the five yearly census on August 10th will be done during lockdowns with stay at home orders in place.

20,000 people have been hired to knock on doors and while around 75% of people are able to do it online there is a sizable number of mostly old and disabled people who need to have a census worker help either them fill a paper form out or help them with online entry in person.These are also the same people who would be most affected by covid.

Personally I am surprised to see them do the census this year during a pandemic with lockdowns and stay at home orders in place and cases in Sydney still slowly rising daily.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-28 14:24:46
July 28 2021 13:50 GMT
#8184
--- Nuked ---
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-28 15:44:12
July 28 2021 15:41 GMT
#8185
I would like to do yet ANOTHER victory lap:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/28/health/pfizer-third-dose-data-bn/index.html

A third dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine can "strongly" boost protection against the Delta variant -- beyond the protection afforded by the standard two doses, suggests new data released by Pfizer on Wednesday.


Mohdoo was right again. Let me be clear with everyone: If you are an expert and your wife is also an expert, you are able to easily determine what public policy will be in a month and you can always tell what is true and what isn't.

Let me reiterate: It is totally possible for other people to see how things are going and what is going to happen, since we have a fundamental understanding of the science involved. I was telling people to get a 3rd shot a while ago.
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6223 Posts
July 28 2021 16:05 GMT
#8186
On July 29 2021 00:41 Mohdoo wrote:
I would like to do yet ANOTHER victory lap:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/28/health/pfizer-third-dose-data-bn/index.html

Show nested quote +
A third dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine can "strongly" boost protection against the Delta variant -- beyond the protection afforded by the standard two doses, suggests new data released by Pfizer on Wednesday.


Mohdoo was right again. Let me be clear with everyone: If you are an expert and your wife is also an expert, you are able to easily determine what public policy will be in a month and you can always tell what is true and what isn't.

Let me reiterate: It is totally possible for other people to see how things are going and what is going to happen, since we have a fundamental understanding of the science involved. I was telling people to get a 3rd shot a while ago.


The pfizer document says this:

Initial data shows booster dose of current vaccine (>6 mo. after 2nd dose of BNT162b2) has an overall consistent
tolerability profile while eliciting SARS-CoV-2 neutralization titers >5-8X for wild type and 15-21X for Beta variant the
range achieved after two primary doses
• Post dose 3 titers versus the Delta variant are >5-fold post dose 2 titers 18-55 y/o & >11-fold post dose 2 titers 65-85 y/o


The 5 fold increase is realistically less than you'd expect in terms of real world effect. For 65+ the third dose is probably warranted, but titers is a poor way of measuring real world efficacy. If you can get one, it's worthwhile to get it, but not as key as the first two doses were.

The other thing to consider is that in countries where the doses were spread out, you got a ~3.5x increase (IIRC) anyways by waiting longer between doses (12 weeks instead of 3), so the marginal benefit is small for Canadians (outside of the elderly).

Looking through the document, I'm a bit more excited about the flu vaccine. If I could get my booster at the same time as the flu vaccine, and get good protection against all the major respiratory viruses at once I'd be quite happy.

https://s21.q4cdn.com/317678438/files/doc_financials/2021/q2/Q2-2021-Earnings-Charts-FINAL.pdf
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
July 28 2021 16:15 GMT
#8187
On July 29 2021 01:05 Lmui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2021 00:41 Mohdoo wrote:
I would like to do yet ANOTHER victory lap:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/28/health/pfizer-third-dose-data-bn/index.html

A third dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine can "strongly" boost protection against the Delta variant -- beyond the protection afforded by the standard two doses, suggests new data released by Pfizer on Wednesday.


Mohdoo was right again. Let me be clear with everyone: If you are an expert and your wife is also an expert, you are able to easily determine what public policy will be in a month and you can always tell what is true and what isn't.

Let me reiterate: It is totally possible for other people to see how things are going and what is going to happen, since we have a fundamental understanding of the science involved. I was telling people to get a 3rd shot a while ago.


The pfizer document says this:

Show nested quote +
Initial data shows booster dose of current vaccine (>6 mo. after 2nd dose of BNT162b2) has an overall consistent
tolerability profile while eliciting SARS-CoV-2 neutralization titers >5-8X for wild type and 15-21X for Beta variant the
range achieved after two primary doses
• Post dose 3 titers versus the Delta variant are >5-fold post dose 2 titers 18-55 y/o & >11-fold post dose 2 titers 65-85 y/o


The 5 fold increase is realistically less than you'd expect in terms of real world effect. For 65+ the third dose is probably warranted, but titers is a poor way of measuring real world efficacy. If you can get one, it's worthwhile to get it, but not as key as the first two doses were.

The other thing to consider is that in countries where the doses were spread out, you got a ~3.5x increase (IIRC) anyways by waiting longer between doses (12 weeks instead of 3), so the marginal benefit is small for Canadians (outside of the elderly).

Looking through the document, I'm a bit more excited about the flu vaccine. If I could get my booster at the same time as the flu vaccine, and get good protection against all the major respiratory viruses at once I'd be quite happy.

https://s21.q4cdn.com/317678438/files/doc_financials/2021/q2/Q2-2021-Earnings-Charts-FINAL.pdf


I don't need a 5 fold increase for this to be a really good idea. a 20% increase in effectiveness, when you are dealing with a differential equation, is a really big deal. So lets assume it is only 20% increase, that is still an enormous win in any infection situation.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
July 28 2021 17:59 GMT
#8188
I would be surprised if Pfizer said anything other than "you should buy another 100 million doses of Pfizer." I suppose it's free to me, though, so meh.

No harm in waiting to see if there's a good reason to have a booster shot or not. It'll become clear soon enough, and it's no longer anywhere near as important as initial vaccination.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6223 Posts
July 28 2021 20:09 GMT
#8189
Source is Moderna, but should be pretty close to Pfizer.
https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-provides-clinical-update-neutralizing-activity-its-covid


The study methodology was previously described in the letter to the editor published in NEJM on April 15, 2021 concerning the variants first identified in the U.K. (Alpha, B.1.1.7) and the Republic of South Africa (Beta, B.1.351) using serum samples from eight participants obtained one week after participants’ second dose of the primary series in the Phase 1 clinical trial of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine. These most recent data include neutralization assays against additional variant strains. This additional analysis showed minimal impact on neutralizing titers against the Alpha and A.23.1 variants relative to those against the ancestral strain (D614G). This analysis also showed a modest reduction in neutralizing titers against the Delta (2.1-fold), Gamma (P.1, 3.2-fold), Kappa (3.3-3.4-fold), and Eta (4.2-fold) variants relative to those against the ancestral strain. Consistent with previous results, a 7.3 or 8.4-fold reduction in neutralizing titers was observed with the additional versions of the Beta variant relative to the ancestral strain. Additionally, an 8.0-fold reduction in neutralizing titers relative to the ancestral strain was observed with A.VOI.V2, the variant first identified in Angola, but currently not designated as a Variant of Concern or Interest.


Going from 95% protective to high 80s (88%)? is due to a ~2.1x decrease in neutralizing titers. Getting a third dose for additional protection doesn't seem worthwhile to me in any country where a larger dose interval was observed for anyone besides the elderly and immunocompromised.

Getting a 3rd dose booster as immunity wanes is different from a 3rd dose for direct protection against delta. With the 3 week interval, a booster seems likely to be needed fairly soon looking at Israel, and to some extent backs up Pfizer's attempt to sell 50% more vaccines. With the case of longer intervals and pretty good protection already though, it's an investment with relatively marginal gains. It's better to invest time into getting more vaccines into new arms, than a 3rd dose into people who've already got 2 shots.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
July 28 2021 20:47 GMT
#8190
On July 29 2021 05:09 Lmui wrote:
Going from 95% protective to high 80s (88%)? is due to a ~2.1x decrease in neutralizing titers. Getting a third dose for additional protection doesn't seem worthwhile to me in any country where a larger dose interval was observed for anyone besides the elderly and immunocompromised.


In the US you walk into a store and you're jabbed in 5 minutes for free. The cost is like going to the bathroom lol
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4456 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-29 22:11:06
July 29 2021 22:01 GMT
#8191
On July 28 2021 22:50 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2021 17:25 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
7 child patients admitted to ICU with 2,650 cases statewide.Is this because of the obesity rate in Alabama?

For context UK data from actual studies showed that the risk to children under 18 of being admitted to ICU was 1 in 38,911 with a death rate of around 2 per million.

https://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2021/july/ncmd-covidrisks.html

One preprint study*, published on the medRxiv server, found that 251 young people aged under 18 in England were admitted to intensive care with Covid-19 during the first year of the pandemic (until the end of February 2021).

Looking separately at PIMS-TS*, a rare inflammatory syndrome in children caused by Covid-19, the researchers found that 309 young people were admitted to intensive care with this condition – equating to an absolute risk of one in 38,911.

A linked preprint study**, also published on the medRxiv server and looking at data for England, concluded that 25 children and young people had died as a result of Covid-19, equating to an absolute risk of death from Covid-19 of one in 481,000, or approximately two in a million.


Additionally Dr Whittaker of Imperial College London states that Delta variant has had no real impact on these figures

Dr Elizabeth Whittaker (Imperial College London) said: “It is reassuring that these findings reflect our clinical experience in hospital – we see very few seriously unwell children. Although this data covers up to February 2021, this hasn’t changed recently with the Delta variant. We hope this data will be reassuring for children and young people and their families.”


I'd suggest those numbers of 7 out of 2,650 child cases being in ICU either they are drastically undercounting the number of COVID cases in kids in Alabama or that kids in Alabama are more obese and unhealthy than UK kids.Likely a combination.

You do realize that your quotes both say in data up to feb 2021 which was before delta right? Saying it has not changed, when it has changed is silly.

Well it's not me saying delta hasn't changed things has it? It was Dr Whittaker of Imperial College, London.Trust the experts.

What's your theory on why children are breaking records and adults are still a long says from doing so (though at these rates it might not be long in the worst hut states)?

Children are at incredibly low risk of serious side effects from COVID and with the CDC now flip-flopping on vaccinated people not needing to wear masks inside because new research showing that vaccinated people still spread COVID and vaccinated people carry the same viral load as in unvaccinated people - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9839697/Fauci-says-CDC-changed-mask-guidance-vaccinated-people-spread-Indian-Delta-variant.html - Dailymail but you just need to watch the 30 second clip of Fauci in the article stating that.So I'd say stop focusing purely on cases because even the vaxxed are causing new cases, vaxxed can be superspreaders.Possibly they'll issue a reversal of that policy when the inevitable boosters roll out?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-29 22:33:27
July 29 2021 22:32 GMT
#8192
On July 30 2021 07:01 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2021 22:50 JimmiC wrote:
On July 28 2021 17:25 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
7 child patients admitted to ICU with 2,650 cases statewide.Is this because of the obesity rate in Alabama?

For context UK data from actual studies showed that the risk to children under 18 of being admitted to ICU was 1 in 38,911 with a death rate of around 2 per million.

https://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2021/july/ncmd-covidrisks.html

One preprint study*, published on the medRxiv server, found that 251 young people aged under 18 in England were admitted to intensive care with Covid-19 during the first year of the pandemic (until the end of February 2021).

Looking separately at PIMS-TS*, a rare inflammatory syndrome in children caused by Covid-19, the researchers found that 309 young people were admitted to intensive care with this condition – equating to an absolute risk of one in 38,911.

A linked preprint study**, also published on the medRxiv server and looking at data for England, concluded that 25 children and young people had died as a result of Covid-19, equating to an absolute risk of death from Covid-19 of one in 481,000, or approximately two in a million.


Additionally Dr Whittaker of Imperial College London states that Delta variant has had no real impact on these figures

Dr Elizabeth Whittaker (Imperial College London) said: “It is reassuring that these findings reflect our clinical experience in hospital – we see very few seriously unwell children. Although this data covers up to February 2021, this hasn’t changed recently with the Delta variant. We hope this data will be reassuring for children and young people and their families.”


I'd suggest those numbers of 7 out of 2,650 child cases being in ICU either they are drastically undercounting the number of COVID cases in kids in Alabama or that kids in Alabama are more obese and unhealthy than UK kids.Likely a combination.

You do realize that your quotes both say in data up to feb 2021 which was before delta right? Saying it has not changed, when it has changed is silly.

Well it's not me saying delta hasn't changed things has it? It was Dr Whittaker of Imperial College, London.Trust the experts.
Show nested quote +

What's your theory on why children are breaking records and adults are still a long says from doing so (though at these rates it might not be long in the worst hut states)?

Children are at incredibly low risk of serious side effects from COVID and with the CDC now flip-flopping on vaccinated people not needing to wear masks inside because new research showing that vaccinated people still spread COVID and vaccinated people carry the same viral load as in unvaccinated people - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9839697/Fauci-says-CDC-changed-mask-guidance-vaccinated-people-spread-Indian-Delta-variant.html - Dailymail but you just need to watch the 30 second clip of Fauci in the article stating that.So I'd say stop focusing purely on cases because even the vaxxed are causing new cases, vaxxed can be superspreaders.Possibly they'll issue a reversal of that policy when the inevitable boosters roll out?


Unironically using dailymail as a reputable source of information? You're right when you say "dailymail but", except there's no "but", it's just dailymail, aka one of the least reputable news sources. They like to sensationalize everything, including the least relevant information, as long as it gets them clicks. Very often they blatantly leave out crucial context, as is the case here.

Fauci is saying that breakthrough cases - specifically referring to a vaccinated person becoming infected with the delta variant - are exactly the same in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. But those breakthrough cases are rare in and of themselves, or in other words the number of new cases is not significantly impacted by those cases.
To put this into perspective: 99% of deaths and 97% of hospitalizations are among the unvaccinated (as per one of the most reputable sources, unlike dailymail).

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210726/breakthrough-cases-rising-with-delta-heres-what-that-means

Fauci states that this is what caused the change in the CDC guideline. A small portion of vaccinated people, despite being overwhelmingly safe compared to unvaccinated people, can carry the Delta variant, and therefore it makes sense to remain cautious by continuing to wear face masks indoors despite being vaccinated.

This is a measure to save more lives and prevent hospitalizations, and further minimize the spread of the virus, during a time when we've long gotten used to wearing face masks throughout some/most of our daily activities. So it makes perfect sense, and I also don't see an inconvenience. Face mask quality has improved quite dramatically since the start of the pandemic, and the cost of these masks is far less than the cost of more hospitalizations and lives lost.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
July 29 2021 22:57 GMT
#8193
On July 28 2021 17:25 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
7 child patients admitted to ICU with 2,650 cases statewide.Is this because of the obesity rate in Alabama?

For context UK data from actual studies showed that the risk to children under 18 of being admitted to ICU was 1 in 38,911 with a death rate of around 2 per million.

https://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2021/july/ncmd-covidrisks.html

Show nested quote +
One preprint study*, published on the medRxiv server, found that 251 young people aged under 18 in England were admitted to intensive care with Covid-19 during the first year of the pandemic (until the end of February 2021).

Looking separately at PIMS-TS*, a rare inflammatory syndrome in children caused by Covid-19, the researchers found that 309 young people were admitted to intensive care with this condition – equating to an absolute risk of one in 38,911.

A linked preprint study**, also published on the medRxiv server and looking at data for England, concluded that 25 children and young people had died as a result of Covid-19, equating to an absolute risk of death from Covid-19 of one in 481,000, or approximately two in a million.


Additionally Dr Whittaker of Imperial College London states that Delta variant has had no real impact on these figures

Show nested quote +
Dr Elizabeth Whittaker (Imperial College London) said: “It is reassuring that these findings reflect our clinical experience in hospital – we see very few seriously unwell children. Although this data covers up to February 2021, this hasn’t changed recently with the Delta variant. We hope this data will be reassuring for children and young people and their families.”


I'd suggest those numbers of 7 out of 2,650 child cases being in ICU either they are drastically undercounting the number of COVID cases in kids in Alabama or that kids in Alabama are more obese and unhealthy than UK kids.Likely a combination.


Do you care to reiterate the point you are trying to make because it really sounds like you are comparing apples to oranges. How exactly are you concluding that 7 ICU cases in Alabama represents a much higher incidence than 309 ICU cases in England? Seems like the denominator you are using for Alabama is "active covid cases" and the denominator you are using for England is "the entire pediatric population of the entire country." There are 1MM+ children in Alabama so 7 ICU cases represents about 1 in 150,000.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-30 01:29:59
July 30 2021 00:14 GMT
#8194
--- Nuked ---
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
July 30 2021 04:46 GMT
#8195
On July 30 2021 07:01 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2021 22:50 JimmiC wrote:
On July 28 2021 17:25 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
7 child patients admitted to ICU with 2,650 cases statewide.Is this because of the obesity rate in Alabama?

For context UK data from actual studies showed that the risk to children under 18 of being admitted to ICU was 1 in 38,911 with a death rate of around 2 per million.

https://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2021/july/ncmd-covidrisks.html

One preprint study*, published on the medRxiv server, found that 251 young people aged under 18 in England were admitted to intensive care with Covid-19 during the first year of the pandemic (until the end of February 2021).

Looking separately at PIMS-TS*, a rare inflammatory syndrome in children caused by Covid-19, the researchers found that 309 young people were admitted to intensive care with this condition – equating to an absolute risk of one in 38,911.

A linked preprint study**, also published on the medRxiv server and looking at data for England, concluded that 25 children and young people had died as a result of Covid-19, equating to an absolute risk of death from Covid-19 of one in 481,000, or approximately two in a million.


Additionally Dr Whittaker of Imperial College London states that Delta variant has had no real impact on these figures

Dr Elizabeth Whittaker (Imperial College London) said: “It is reassuring that these findings reflect our clinical experience in hospital – we see very few seriously unwell children. Although this data covers up to February 2021, this hasn’t changed recently with the Delta variant. We hope this data will be reassuring for children and young people and their families.”


I'd suggest those numbers of 7 out of 2,650 child cases being in ICU either they are drastically undercounting the number of COVID cases in kids in Alabama or that kids in Alabama are more obese and unhealthy than UK kids.Likely a combination.

You do realize that your quotes both say in data up to feb 2021 which was before delta right? Saying it has not changed, when it has changed is silly.

Well it's not me saying delta hasn't changed things has it? It was Dr Whittaker of Imperial College, London.Trust the experts.
Show nested quote +

What's your theory on why children are breaking records and adults are still a long says from doing so (though at these rates it might not be long in the worst hut states)?

Children are at incredibly low risk of serious side effects from COVID and with the CDC now flip-flopping on vaccinated people not needing to wear masks inside because new research showing that vaccinated people still spread COVID and vaccinated people carry the same viral load as in unvaccinated people - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9839697/Fauci-says-CDC-changed-mask-guidance-vaccinated-people-spread-Indian-Delta-variant.html - Dailymail but you just need to watch the 30 second clip of Fauci in the article stating that.So I'd say stop focusing purely on cases because even the vaxxed are causing new cases, vaxxed can be superspreaders.Possibly they'll issue a reversal of that policy when the inevitable boosters roll out?


Dude I'm sorry but you have by far the worst record on anything related to covid in this thread. Its not like we forgot all the bogus shit you were saying last year. No one is going to consider anything you say.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-07-30 05:39:31
July 30 2021 05:25 GMT
#8196
--- Nuked ---
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
July 30 2021 10:03 GMT
#8197
On July 30 2021 09:14 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2021 07:57 BlackJack wrote:
On July 28 2021 17:25 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
7 child patients admitted to ICU with 2,650 cases statewide.Is this because of the obesity rate in Alabama?

For context UK data from actual studies showed that the risk to children under 18 of being admitted to ICU was 1 in 38,911 with a death rate of around 2 per million.

https://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2021/july/ncmd-covidrisks.html

One preprint study*, published on the medRxiv server, found that 251 young people aged under 18 in England were admitted to intensive care with Covid-19 during the first year of the pandemic (until the end of February 2021).

Looking separately at PIMS-TS*, a rare inflammatory syndrome in children caused by Covid-19, the researchers found that 309 young people were admitted to intensive care with this condition – equating to an absolute risk of one in 38,911.

A linked preprint study**, also published on the medRxiv server and looking at data for England, concluded that 25 children and young people had died as a result of Covid-19, equating to an absolute risk of death from Covid-19 of one in 481,000, or approximately two in a million.


Additionally Dr Whittaker of Imperial College London states that Delta variant has had no real impact on these figures

Dr Elizabeth Whittaker (Imperial College London) said: “It is reassuring that these findings reflect our clinical experience in hospital – we see very few seriously unwell children. Although this data covers up to February 2021, this hasn’t changed recently with the Delta variant. We hope this data will be reassuring for children and young people and their families.”


I'd suggest those numbers of 7 out of 2,650 child cases being in ICU either they are drastically undercounting the number of COVID cases in kids in Alabama or that kids in Alabama are more obese and unhealthy than UK kids.Likely a combination.


Do you care to reiterate the point you are trying to make because it really sounds like you are comparing apples to oranges. How exactly are you concluding that 7 ICU cases in Alabama represents a much higher incidence than 309 ICU cases in England? Seems like the denominator you are using for Alabama is "active covid cases" and the denominator you are using for England is "the entire pediatric population of the entire country." There are 1MM+ children in Alabama so 7 ICU cases represents about 1 in 150,000.

Because 7 out of 311 is a lot more than 1 in 38911

And it's not only in Bama at least Florida, gerogia, Missouri are also breaking child records.

On top of that half of people who get hospitalized get long term consequences, serious ones.

https://scitechdaily.com/half-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-develop-a-complication/amp/


Show nested quote +
The authors say that complications in patients admitted to hospital with COVID-19 are high, even in young, previously healthy individuals — with 27% of 19-29-year-olds and 37% of 30-39-year-olds experiencing a complication. They also note that acute complications are associated with reduced ability to self-care at discharge — with 13% of 19-29-year-olds and 17% of 30-39-year-olds unable to look after themselves once discharged from hospital


Show nested quote +
Following hospitalization, 27% (13,309 of 50,105) of patients were less able to look after themselves than before COVID-19, and this was more common with older age, being male, and in people who received critical care. The association between having a complication and worse ability for self-care remained irrespective of age, sex, socioeconomic status, and which hospital someone received treatment in. Neurological complications were associated with the biggest impact on ability for self-care.



And Texas is getting almost as scary as Florida.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.texastribune.org/2021/07/29/texas-covid-19-hospitals/amp/

Show nested quote +
Overall on Thursday, Texas hospitals reported 5,662 patients hospitalized with COVID. A week earlier, COVID hospitalizations were 3,566. On July 1, it was 1,591.


Show nested quote +
Upwards of 95% of those who are being hospitalized are unvaccinated, officials in Bexar, Travis and other counties say.

“Nearly every COVID patient admission is completely preventable,” said Dr. Bryan Alsip, executive vice president and chief medical officer at University Health System in San Antonio. “Staff witness this every day and it’s very, very frustrating.”



What? Again - the 1 in 38,911 appears to be the absolute risk of all the children in England. I don't even know what the 7 out of 311 number you are referencing is but you're clearly using 2 completely different denominators and then trying to do a side by side comparison to say one is worse than the other. Do I really have to explain whats wrong with this?
BlueStar
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Bulgaria1184 Posts
July 30 2021 10:39 GMT
#8198
You guys, do realize the vaccines are not free, right?
The state buys them but all the money is taken from your pockets one way or another...

If someone has more scientific links, I'd be happy to dig in. Please share.

These articles from the media were created out of the fingers of some journalists who are only there to get more clicks. It's just a read to fill your free time but can't get real intel out of it.
Leader of the Bulgarian National SCBW/SC2 team and team pSi.SCBW/SC2
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5886 Posts
July 30 2021 11:46 GMT
#8199
On July 30 2021 07:01 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2021 22:50 JimmiC wrote:
On July 28 2021 17:25 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
7 child patients admitted to ICU with 2,650 cases statewide.Is this because of the obesity rate in Alabama?

For context UK data from actual studies showed that the risk to children under 18 of being admitted to ICU was 1 in 38,911 with a death rate of around 2 per million.

https://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2021/july/ncmd-covidrisks.html

One preprint study*, published on the medRxiv server, found that 251 young people aged under 18 in England were admitted to intensive care with Covid-19 during the first year of the pandemic (until the end of February 2021).

Looking separately at PIMS-TS*, a rare inflammatory syndrome in children caused by Covid-19, the researchers found that 309 young people were admitted to intensive care with this condition – equating to an absolute risk of one in 38,911.

A linked preprint study**, also published on the medRxiv server and looking at data for England, concluded that 25 children and young people had died as a result of Covid-19, equating to an absolute risk of death from Covid-19 of one in 481,000, or approximately two in a million.


Additionally Dr Whittaker of Imperial College London states that Delta variant has had no real impact on these figures

Dr Elizabeth Whittaker (Imperial College London) said: “It is reassuring that these findings reflect our clinical experience in hospital – we see very few seriously unwell children. Although this data covers up to February 2021, this hasn’t changed recently with the Delta variant. We hope this data will be reassuring for children and young people and their families.”


I'd suggest those numbers of 7 out of 2,650 child cases being in ICU either they are drastically undercounting the number of COVID cases in kids in Alabama or that kids in Alabama are more obese and unhealthy than UK kids.Likely a combination.

You do realize that your quotes both say in data up to feb 2021 which was before delta right? Saying it has not changed, when it has changed is silly.

Well it's not me saying delta hasn't changed things has it? It was Dr Whittaker of Imperial College, London.Trust the experts.
Show nested quote +

What's your theory on why children are breaking records and adults are still a long says from doing so (though at these rates it might not be long in the worst hut states)?

Children are at incredibly low risk of serious side effects from COVID and with the CDC now flip-flopping on vaccinated people not needing to wear masks inside because new research showing that vaccinated people still spread COVID and vaccinated people carry the same viral load as in unvaccinated people - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9839697/Fauci-says-CDC-changed-mask-guidance-vaccinated-people-spread-Indian-Delta-variant.html - Dailymail but you just need to watch the 30 second clip of Fauci in the article stating that.So I'd say stop focusing purely on cases because even the vaxxed are causing new cases, vaxxed can be superspreaders.Possibly they'll issue a reversal of that policy when the inevitable boosters roll out?

You're calling adapting to changing circumstances "flip-flopping". It's hard to take you seriously. The recommendation that vaccinated people do not need to wear a mask was based on how the Alpha variant behaved. The risk of vaccinated people spreading the virus was very small with that variant. That was back in May and before there was any evidence of the Delta variant behaving differently.
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
July 30 2021 11:52 GMT
#8200
On July 30 2021 19:39 BlueStar wrote:
You guys, do realize the vaccines are not free, right?
The state buys them but all the money is taken from your pockets one way or another...

If someone has more scientific links, I'd be happy to dig in. Please share.

These articles from the media were created out of the fingers of some journalists who are only there to get more clicks. It's just a read to fill your free time but can't get real intel out of it.


I think a more interesting prespective is to think about it in terms of loss assessment. For example:

Take the probability of getting covid given no vaccine
Then multiply with probabilities of various consequences given no vaccine
Then multiply with the costs associated with each consequence and integrate everything

Compare that value with:

The probability of getting covid given a vaccine (much lower) and the probabilities of consequences given a vaccine (much less severe) + the cost of the vaccine.


I presume that you will find the cost of the vaccine is much lower than closures, loss of productivity, hospital costs, ongoing medical costs, etc.,. (If anyone has a source on this sort of detailed risk analysis I would be interested to see). That is why governments have been investing into vaccines because the math very likely says they save billions within months, not to say years from now.
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