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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control.
It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you.
Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly.
This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here.
Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. |
On July 06 2021 15:38 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2021 15:20 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 14:11 sharkie wrote:On July 06 2021 12:27 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 09:50 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On July 06 2021 01:24 JimmiC wrote:On July 05 2021 23:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On July 04 2021 04:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2021 22:31 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:New French study claims the risk of 18-39 year olds (In France) dying from blood clots related to the AZ vaccine is double the lives saved from that age range from Covid due to the vaccine. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40328123.htmlA new modelling study published in the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control’s (ECDC) medical journal has concluded that the dangers presented to younger people by the AstraZeneca vaccine are greater than the benefits.
The study, published in the weekly edition of the Eurosurveillance journal, models four months of a vaccine distribution strategy in France involving Vaxzevria (commonly called AstraZeneca) from May 2021, and concludes that using the vaccine on the entire adult population there would avert 10 deaths from Covid among 18-39-year-olds, but would be associated with 21 deaths from blood clotting in the same age grouping over the same time period. So vaccinating the entire French 18-39 population with AZ would save 10 lives due to COVID.Can we calm the fearmongering a little? What about sickness that doesn't lead to death, per se? Emergency room visits? Multi-organ failure? What about plenty of adults in their 20s and 30s passing on covid to older people and killing them? I feel like you're implying that if a person doesn't literally die, then their experience with covid isn't a big deal. The biggest risk for covid in younger people is in obese people.If you guys want to talk personal responsibility if NA wasn’t so obese then they wouldn’t be having much issue.Of course the crazy lockdowns have actually worsened the obesity problem!! https://theconversation.com/severe-covid-in-young-people-can-mostly-be-explained-by-obesity-new-study-159072Severe COVID in young people can mostly be explained by obesity – new study
A study published last year in Nature reported that obesity increased the risk of COVID-related death substantially. People with the highest BMI (over 40) were at 92% higher risk of dying from COVID compared with people with a healthy BMI (18.5-25).
Emergency room visits for the vaccines happen as well, it’s why the FDA has slapped Heart warnings on the Pfizer vaccine for young people.Hundreds and hundreds of cases of myocarditis.And the victims have to pay for their own treatment since the manufacturers have no liability.USA medical system is a disgrace. You do realize that the people who are not taking the vaccine for the most part are doing so, or at least they say they are, because they don't think Covid is that bad. Now that is 1-5% in the hospitalization risk and depending on the country, lets go low .5% risk of death. I wouldn’t say that was the main reason people aren’t taking it.The main reason is people are concerned about side effects, the fact the vaccine is still in phase 3 trials with emergency use approval only and manufacturers are not liable for serious side effects all tie in to that but it’s all been discussed before. As for the 1-5% hospitalisation, this is not for young people.As I said from the start of this the restrictions and recommendations should apply to those 70+, especially in nursing homes.The biggest preventable risk factor for covid in young people is obesity, which as I stated has gotten worse during lockdowns with stay at home orders and gym closures, not to mention locking yourself in your house isn’t great for Vitamin D levels which are also known to help the immune system fight covid. The policies you support are having a massively detrimental impact on young people health wise, financially and mentally. I support the policies the doctors suggest since they have BYFAR the most knowledge and have been mostly right. You seem to not realize that Covid has a massively detrimental impact on young, medium, and old people, health, financially and mentally. The measures do as well, but less, if you were at all aware you would notice that doing nothing is worse, and not a little but exponentially worse for health, financially and mentally. I wish I lived in a world where I could somehow ignore all the information outside of my own anecdotal experiences and pretend like there was this option where the government did nothing, no measures were taken and Covid just fizzled out. But sadly that is clearly a fantasy. So you can't act as if measures were the problem unless you think that no measures downsides are smaller, which would be incredibly hard to fathom someone actually thinking. You can look to countries where the did far to little, it is not pretty. Really? What country with good healthcare did little and its not pretty? Italy, then there healthcare was overrun and they did something. Same thing happened in New York city. You do realize the measures were put in place when the "good healthcare" could not keep up right? It is very strange to me that very public events that happened recently are a mystery to some. I could counter with Taiwan, Thailand, Japan, ...? Also with Italy there are quite some documentations already on what really went wrong there. (bad restrictions by WHO/government, wrong treatments of covid patients)
Where did you get the idea that they did little to fight the pandemic? That's nonsense.
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On July 06 2021 16:28 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2021 15:38 sharkie wrote:On July 06 2021 15:20 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 14:11 sharkie wrote:On July 06 2021 12:27 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 09:50 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On July 06 2021 01:24 JimmiC wrote:On July 05 2021 23:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On July 04 2021 04:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2021 22:31 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:New French study claims the risk of 18-39 year olds (In France) dying from blood clots related to the AZ vaccine is double the lives saved from that age range from Covid due to the vaccine. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40328123.html[quote] So vaccinating the entire French 18-39 population with AZ would save 10 lives due to COVID.Can we calm the fearmongering a little? What about sickness that doesn't lead to death, per se? Emergency room visits? Multi-organ failure? What about plenty of adults in their 20s and 30s passing on covid to older people and killing them? I feel like you're implying that if a person doesn't literally die, then their experience with covid isn't a big deal. The biggest risk for covid in younger people is in obese people.If you guys want to talk personal responsibility if NA wasn’t so obese then they wouldn’t be having much issue.Of course the crazy lockdowns have actually worsened the obesity problem!! https://theconversation.com/severe-covid-in-young-people-can-mostly-be-explained-by-obesity-new-study-159072Severe COVID in young people can mostly be explained by obesity – new study
A study published last year in Nature reported that obesity increased the risk of COVID-related death substantially. People with the highest BMI (over 40) were at 92% higher risk of dying from COVID compared with people with a healthy BMI (18.5-25).
Emergency room visits for the vaccines happen as well, it’s why the FDA has slapped Heart warnings on the Pfizer vaccine for young people.Hundreds and hundreds of cases of myocarditis.And the victims have to pay for their own treatment since the manufacturers have no liability.USA medical system is a disgrace. You do realize that the people who are not taking the vaccine for the most part are doing so, or at least they say they are, because they don't think Covid is that bad. Now that is 1-5% in the hospitalization risk and depending on the country, lets go low .5% risk of death. I wouldn’t say that was the main reason people aren’t taking it.The main reason is people are concerned about side effects, the fact the vaccine is still in phase 3 trials with emergency use approval only and manufacturers are not liable for serious side effects all tie in to that but it’s all been discussed before. As for the 1-5% hospitalisation, this is not for young people.As I said from the start of this the restrictions and recommendations should apply to those 70+, especially in nursing homes.The biggest preventable risk factor for covid in young people is obesity, which as I stated has gotten worse during lockdowns with stay at home orders and gym closures, not to mention locking yourself in your house isn’t great for Vitamin D levels which are also known to help the immune system fight covid. The policies you support are having a massively detrimental impact on young people health wise, financially and mentally. I support the policies the doctors suggest since they have BYFAR the most knowledge and have been mostly right. You seem to not realize that Covid has a massively detrimental impact on young, medium, and old people, health, financially and mentally. The measures do as well, but less, if you were at all aware you would notice that doing nothing is worse, and not a little but exponentially worse for health, financially and mentally. I wish I lived in a world where I could somehow ignore all the information outside of my own anecdotal experiences and pretend like there was this option where the government did nothing, no measures were taken and Covid just fizzled out. But sadly that is clearly a fantasy. So you can't act as if measures were the problem unless you think that no measures downsides are smaller, which would be incredibly hard to fathom someone actually thinking. You can look to countries where the did far to little, it is not pretty. Really? What country with good healthcare did little and its not pretty? Italy, then there healthcare was overrun and they did something. Same thing happened in New York city. You do realize the measures were put in place when the "good healthcare" could not keep up right? It is very strange to me that very public events that happened recently are a mystery to some. I could counter with Taiwan, Thailand, Japan, ...? Also with Italy there are quite some documentations already on what really went wrong there. (bad restrictions by WHO/government, wrong treatments of covid patients) How do you counter with them? That the voluntary measures were better followed so the government ones happened later? Or do you think they didn't happen? Show nested quote +On 21 March, Bangkok City Hall authorities declared a wide-ranging shutdown of various businesses. Bangkok Governor Aswin Kwanmuang disclosed after the City Hall meeting that the board had passed a resolution to close establishments under Section 35 of the Communicable Diseases Act B.E. 2558 (2015), effective for a period of 22 days from 22 March to 12 April 2020. This was then extended from 12 April 2020 to 30 April 2020.[73] Only supermarkets, pharmacies, and takeaway restaurants will be allowed to stay open at the malls.[74]
The government issued a curfew to take effect on 3 April 2020 between 10pm-4am in order to limit the spread. The government has additionally issued a travel ban for all foreigners entering Thailand.[75] Some critics of the government have been arrested for allegedly spreading false information about the coronavirus pandemic.[76][77]
The curfew was cut from 10–4 to 11–4, then 11-3 and officially ended on 15 June 2020.[78]
Early April 2021, Bangkok's entertainment venues were ordered to be closed for 2 weeks.[79] Mid-April 2021, schools were ordered to be closed for 2 weeks, [80] taking the 2000+ daily cases into consideration.[81] Since 26th April, more businesses including gyms closed for 2 weeks.[82] Show nested quote +On 5 March 2020, Abe introduced a draft amendment to the Special Measures Act to Counter New Types of Influenza of 2012 to extend the law's emergency measures for an influenza outbreak to include COVID-19. He met separately with the heads of five opposition parties on 4 March 2020 to promote a "united front" in passing the reforms. The National Diet passed the amendment on 13 March 2020, making it effective for the next two years.[60][61] The amendment allows the Prime Minister to declare a "state of emergency" in specific areas where COVID-19 poses a grave threat to the lives and economic livelihood of residents. During such a period, governors of affected areas will receive the following powers: (1) to instruct residents to avoid unnecessary outings unless they are workers in such essential services like health care and public transportation; (2) to restrict the use or request the temporary closure of businesses and facilities, including schools, social welfare facilities, theatres, music venues, and sports stadiums; (3) to expropriate private land and buildings to erect new hospitals; and (4) to requisition medical supplies and food from companies that refuse to sell them, punish those that hoard or do not comply, and force firms to help transport emergency goods. Show nested quote +The Taiwanese government announced on 24 January 2020 a ban on the export of face masks before the epidemic had spread to many countries, which caused controversy; however, after the outbreak of the epidemic, people rushed to buy masks in many countries around the world.[226][227][171] (Incidents of face-mask confiscation by a government occurred in mainland China, the world's top face-mask manufacturer. Voluntary measures did work, it is too bad most of the western countries were to arrogant/ignorant to actually do them. But none of your examples prove your point, rather they prove the opposite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Thailand#Lockdown,_curfew,_and_inter-provincial_travel_banhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Japanhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Taiwan#Domestic_response
If you read the articles:
e.g. Thailand one said it that they had measures till end of June 2020 and then nothing till March 2021.
Thats 3/4 of a year where the Thai were freer than any Western country and still numbers were better/as bad as ours.
Same with Japan, they had the rough 2-3 months march 2020 till summer but then also eased all restrictions.
And vaccination rates in these countries are horrible.
I am not saying no to all measures. What I am saying is that the West completely panicked and created more problems (psychological, financial) with their ultra strict measures.
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On July 06 2021 18:34 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2021 15:38 sharkie wrote:On July 06 2021 15:20 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 14:11 sharkie wrote:On July 06 2021 12:27 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 09:50 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On July 06 2021 01:24 JimmiC wrote:On July 05 2021 23:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On July 04 2021 04:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 03 2021 22:31 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:New French study claims the risk of 18-39 year olds (In France) dying from blood clots related to the AZ vaccine is double the lives saved from that age range from Covid due to the vaccine. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40328123.html[quote] So vaccinating the entire French 18-39 population with AZ would save 10 lives due to COVID.Can we calm the fearmongering a little? What about sickness that doesn't lead to death, per se? Emergency room visits? Multi-organ failure? What about plenty of adults in their 20s and 30s passing on covid to older people and killing them? I feel like you're implying that if a person doesn't literally die, then their experience with covid isn't a big deal. The biggest risk for covid in younger people is in obese people.If you guys want to talk personal responsibility if NA wasn’t so obese then they wouldn’t be having much issue.Of course the crazy lockdowns have actually worsened the obesity problem!! https://theconversation.com/severe-covid-in-young-people-can-mostly-be-explained-by-obesity-new-study-159072Severe COVID in young people can mostly be explained by obesity – new study
A study published last year in Nature reported that obesity increased the risk of COVID-related death substantially. People with the highest BMI (over 40) were at 92% higher risk of dying from COVID compared with people with a healthy BMI (18.5-25).
Emergency room visits for the vaccines happen as well, it’s why the FDA has slapped Heart warnings on the Pfizer vaccine for young people.Hundreds and hundreds of cases of myocarditis.And the victims have to pay for their own treatment since the manufacturers have no liability.USA medical system is a disgrace. You do realize that the people who are not taking the vaccine for the most part are doing so, or at least they say they are, because they don't think Covid is that bad. Now that is 1-5% in the hospitalization risk and depending on the country, lets go low .5% risk of death. I wouldn’t say that was the main reason people aren’t taking it.The main reason is people are concerned about side effects, the fact the vaccine is still in phase 3 trials with emergency use approval only and manufacturers are not liable for serious side effects all tie in to that but it’s all been discussed before. As for the 1-5% hospitalisation, this is not for young people.As I said from the start of this the restrictions and recommendations should apply to those 70+, especially in nursing homes.The biggest preventable risk factor for covid in young people is obesity, which as I stated has gotten worse during lockdowns with stay at home orders and gym closures, not to mention locking yourself in your house isn’t great for Vitamin D levels which are also known to help the immune system fight covid. The policies you support are having a massively detrimental impact on young people health wise, financially and mentally. I support the policies the doctors suggest since they have BYFAR the most knowledge and have been mostly right. You seem to not realize that Covid has a massively detrimental impact on young, medium, and old people, health, financially and mentally. The measures do as well, but less, if you were at all aware you would notice that doing nothing is worse, and not a little but exponentially worse for health, financially and mentally. I wish I lived in a world where I could somehow ignore all the information outside of my own anecdotal experiences and pretend like there was this option where the government did nothing, no measures were taken and Covid just fizzled out. But sadly that is clearly a fantasy. So you can't act as if measures were the problem unless you think that no measures downsides are smaller, which would be incredibly hard to fathom someone actually thinking. You can look to countries where the did far to little, it is not pretty. Really? What country with good healthcare did little and its not pretty? Italy, then there healthcare was overrun and they did something. Same thing happened in New York city. You do realize the measures were put in place when the "good healthcare" could not keep up right? It is very strange to me that very public events that happened recently are a mystery to some. I could counter with Taiwan, Thailand, Japan, ...? Also with Italy there are quite some documentations already on what really went wrong there. (bad restrictions by WHO/government, wrong treatments of covid patients) Where did you get the idea that they did little to fight the pandemic? That's nonsense.
Compared to the west they did little.
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On July 06 2021 20:04 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2021 16:28 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 15:38 sharkie wrote:On July 06 2021 15:20 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 14:11 sharkie wrote:On July 06 2021 12:27 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 09:50 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On July 06 2021 01:24 JimmiC wrote:On July 05 2021 23:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On July 04 2021 04:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
What about sickness that doesn't lead to death, per se? Emergency room visits? Multi-organ failure?
What about plenty of adults in their 20s and 30s passing on covid to older people and killing them?
I feel like you're implying that if a person doesn't literally die, then their experience with covid isn't a big deal. The biggest risk for covid in younger people is in obese people.If you guys want to talk personal responsibility if NA wasn’t so obese then they wouldn’t be having much issue.Of course the crazy lockdowns have actually worsened the obesity problem!! https://theconversation.com/severe-covid-in-young-people-can-mostly-be-explained-by-obesity-new-study-159072Severe COVID in young people can mostly be explained by obesity – new study
A study published last year in Nature reported that obesity increased the risk of COVID-related death substantially. People with the highest BMI (over 40) were at 92% higher risk of dying from COVID compared with people with a healthy BMI (18.5-25).
Emergency room visits for the vaccines happen as well, it’s why the FDA has slapped Heart warnings on the Pfizer vaccine for young people.Hundreds and hundreds of cases of myocarditis.And the victims have to pay for their own treatment since the manufacturers have no liability.USA medical system is a disgrace. You do realize that the people who are not taking the vaccine for the most part are doing so, or at least they say they are, because they don't think Covid is that bad. Now that is 1-5% in the hospitalization risk and depending on the country, lets go low .5% risk of death. I wouldn’t say that was the main reason people aren’t taking it.The main reason is people are concerned about side effects, the fact the vaccine is still in phase 3 trials with emergency use approval only and manufacturers are not liable for serious side effects all tie in to that but it’s all been discussed before. As for the 1-5% hospitalisation, this is not for young people.As I said from the start of this the restrictions and recommendations should apply to those 70+, especially in nursing homes.The biggest preventable risk factor for covid in young people is obesity, which as I stated has gotten worse during lockdowns with stay at home orders and gym closures, not to mention locking yourself in your house isn’t great for Vitamin D levels which are also known to help the immune system fight covid. The policies you support are having a massively detrimental impact on young people health wise, financially and mentally. I support the policies the doctors suggest since they have BYFAR the most knowledge and have been mostly right. You seem to not realize that Covid has a massively detrimental impact on young, medium, and old people, health, financially and mentally. The measures do as well, but less, if you were at all aware you would notice that doing nothing is worse, and not a little but exponentially worse for health, financially and mentally. I wish I lived in a world where I could somehow ignore all the information outside of my own anecdotal experiences and pretend like there was this option where the government did nothing, no measures were taken and Covid just fizzled out. But sadly that is clearly a fantasy. So you can't act as if measures were the problem unless you think that no measures downsides are smaller, which would be incredibly hard to fathom someone actually thinking. You can look to countries where the did far to little, it is not pretty. Really? What country with good healthcare did little and its not pretty? Italy, then there healthcare was overrun and they did something. Same thing happened in New York city. You do realize the measures were put in place when the "good healthcare" could not keep up right? It is very strange to me that very public events that happened recently are a mystery to some. I could counter with Taiwan, Thailand, Japan, ...? Also with Italy there are quite some documentations already on what really went wrong there. (bad restrictions by WHO/government, wrong treatments of covid patients) How do you counter with them? That the voluntary measures were better followed so the government ones happened later? Or do you think they didn't happen? On 21 March, Bangkok City Hall authorities declared a wide-ranging shutdown of various businesses. Bangkok Governor Aswin Kwanmuang disclosed after the City Hall meeting that the board had passed a resolution to close establishments under Section 35 of the Communicable Diseases Act B.E. 2558 (2015), effective for a period of 22 days from 22 March to 12 April 2020. This was then extended from 12 April 2020 to 30 April 2020.[73] Only supermarkets, pharmacies, and takeaway restaurants will be allowed to stay open at the malls.[74]
The government issued a curfew to take effect on 3 April 2020 between 10pm-4am in order to limit the spread. The government has additionally issued a travel ban for all foreigners entering Thailand.[75] Some critics of the government have been arrested for allegedly spreading false information about the coronavirus pandemic.[76][77]
The curfew was cut from 10–4 to 11–4, then 11-3 and officially ended on 15 June 2020.[78]
Early April 2021, Bangkok's entertainment venues were ordered to be closed for 2 weeks.[79] Mid-April 2021, schools were ordered to be closed for 2 weeks, [80] taking the 2000+ daily cases into consideration.[81] Since 26th April, more businesses including gyms closed for 2 weeks.[82] On 5 March 2020, Abe introduced a draft amendment to the Special Measures Act to Counter New Types of Influenza of 2012 to extend the law's emergency measures for an influenza outbreak to include COVID-19. He met separately with the heads of five opposition parties on 4 March 2020 to promote a "united front" in passing the reforms. The National Diet passed the amendment on 13 March 2020, making it effective for the next two years.[60][61] The amendment allows the Prime Minister to declare a "state of emergency" in specific areas where COVID-19 poses a grave threat to the lives and economic livelihood of residents. During such a period, governors of affected areas will receive the following powers: (1) to instruct residents to avoid unnecessary outings unless they are workers in such essential services like health care and public transportation; (2) to restrict the use or request the temporary closure of businesses and facilities, including schools, social welfare facilities, theatres, music venues, and sports stadiums; (3) to expropriate private land and buildings to erect new hospitals; and (4) to requisition medical supplies and food from companies that refuse to sell them, punish those that hoard or do not comply, and force firms to help transport emergency goods. The Taiwanese government announced on 24 January 2020 a ban on the export of face masks before the epidemic had spread to many countries, which caused controversy; however, after the outbreak of the epidemic, people rushed to buy masks in many countries around the world.[226][227][171] (Incidents of face-mask confiscation by a government occurred in mainland China, the world's top face-mask manufacturer. Voluntary measures did work, it is too bad most of the western countries were to arrogant/ignorant to actually do them. But none of your examples prove your point, rather they prove the opposite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Thailand#Lockdown,_curfew,_and_inter-provincial_travel_banhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Japanhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Taiwan#Domestic_response If you read the articles: e.g. Thailand one said it that they had measures till end of June 2020 and then nothing till March 2021. Thats 3/4 of a year where the Thai were freer than any Western country and still numbers were better/as bad as ours. Same with Japan, they had the rough 2-3 months march 2020 till summer but then also eased all restrictions. And vaccination rates in these countries are horrible. I am not saying no to all measures. What I am saying is that the West completely panicked and created more problems (psychological, financial) with their ultra strict measures. Their governments didn't have to do more because the people acted responsibly.
'We' in the West did/do not act responsibly as so the government had to step in and make us.
You can't really only focus on what the governments are doing without considering what the people are doing.
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On July 06 2021 20:04 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2021 18:34 maybenexttime wrote:On July 06 2021 15:38 sharkie wrote:On July 06 2021 15:20 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 14:11 sharkie wrote:On July 06 2021 12:27 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 09:50 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On July 06 2021 01:24 JimmiC wrote:On July 05 2021 23:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On July 04 2021 04:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
What about sickness that doesn't lead to death, per se? Emergency room visits? Multi-organ failure?
What about plenty of adults in their 20s and 30s passing on covid to older people and killing them?
I feel like you're implying that if a person doesn't literally die, then their experience with covid isn't a big deal. The biggest risk for covid in younger people is in obese people.If you guys want to talk personal responsibility if NA wasn’t so obese then they wouldn’t be having much issue.Of course the crazy lockdowns have actually worsened the obesity problem!! https://theconversation.com/severe-covid-in-young-people-can-mostly-be-explained-by-obesity-new-study-159072Severe COVID in young people can mostly be explained by obesity – new study
A study published last year in Nature reported that obesity increased the risk of COVID-related death substantially. People with the highest BMI (over 40) were at 92% higher risk of dying from COVID compared with people with a healthy BMI (18.5-25).
Emergency room visits for the vaccines happen as well, it’s why the FDA has slapped Heart warnings on the Pfizer vaccine for young people.Hundreds and hundreds of cases of myocarditis.And the victims have to pay for their own treatment since the manufacturers have no liability.USA medical system is a disgrace. You do realize that the people who are not taking the vaccine for the most part are doing so, or at least they say they are, because they don't think Covid is that bad. Now that is 1-5% in the hospitalization risk and depending on the country, lets go low .5% risk of death. I wouldn’t say that was the main reason people aren’t taking it.The main reason is people are concerned about side effects, the fact the vaccine is still in phase 3 trials with emergency use approval only and manufacturers are not liable for serious side effects all tie in to that but it’s all been discussed before. As for the 1-5% hospitalisation, this is not for young people.As I said from the start of this the restrictions and recommendations should apply to those 70+, especially in nursing homes.The biggest preventable risk factor for covid in young people is obesity, which as I stated has gotten worse during lockdowns with stay at home orders and gym closures, not to mention locking yourself in your house isn’t great for Vitamin D levels which are also known to help the immune system fight covid. The policies you support are having a massively detrimental impact on young people health wise, financially and mentally. I support the policies the doctors suggest since they have BYFAR the most knowledge and have been mostly right. You seem to not realize that Covid has a massively detrimental impact on young, medium, and old people, health, financially and mentally. The measures do as well, but less, if you were at all aware you would notice that doing nothing is worse, and not a little but exponentially worse for health, financially and mentally. I wish I lived in a world where I could somehow ignore all the information outside of my own anecdotal experiences and pretend like there was this option where the government did nothing, no measures were taken and Covid just fizzled out. But sadly that is clearly a fantasy. So you can't act as if measures were the problem unless you think that no measures downsides are smaller, which would be incredibly hard to fathom someone actually thinking. You can look to countries where the did far to little, it is not pretty. Really? What country with good healthcare did little and its not pretty? Italy, then there healthcare was overrun and they did something. Same thing happened in New York city. You do realize the measures were put in place when the "good healthcare" could not keep up right? It is very strange to me that very public events that happened recently are a mystery to some. I could counter with Taiwan, Thailand, Japan, ...? Also with Italy there are quite some documentations already on what really went wrong there. (bad restrictions by WHO/government, wrong treatments of covid patients) Where did you get the idea that they did little to fight the pandemic? That's nonsense. Compared to the west they did little.
Those countries, as well as South Korea and Vietnam, tracked close contacts very aggressively and isolated any suspected case. E.g. in Taiwan they identified on average 17 contacts per case, whereas in the West it was merely 1-2 or less. People in the West were crying about privacy and freedoms, so the governments had to eventually impose lockdowns.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03518-4
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On July 06 2021 15:07 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2021 13:58 xM(Z wrote:On July 05 2021 01:29 Artisreal wrote:On July 05 2021 00:46 xM(Z wrote:On July 04 2021 21:17 Acrofales wrote:On July 04 2021 20:45 xM(Z wrote:On July 04 2021 15:07 Acrofales wrote:On July 04 2021 13:42 xM(Z wrote:
so everyone who died from covid was killed by someone else ... and that's the chinese? Without actually agreeing, let's say "yes" for the sake of argument. Why do you ask and where do you want to take this love of thought? well, it can't be yes because then you go into victimism. your argument is driven by a victims' mentality(personality trait) which defeats itself(you're unreceptive to evidence to the contrary). and it can't be no, because then, people who had covid and spread it around, didn't actually kill anyone(life happened) so you have with no argument to begin with; culpability goes out of the window. so you're left with this in-between shit, neither yes nor no, that needs to be negotiated between affected parties, reasonable adults, competent authorities ... etc; but you're incapable of negotiating life because no one taught you how to nor told you that you have to, in order to get along with ... other people. rejecting that conundrum, you fall back to your victim instincts and go with 'yes', then force the world to embrace/accept your take as the only reasonable one. now, if that's you, wouldn't people have objective reasons to ignore your take?; because after all, it comes from weakness. Aren't you a bit old to finally discover that not everything is black or white? I guess... better late than never? As to what you conclude afterwards, I don't really get. We can both attribute people being willfully negligent causing others to get sick if they refuse the vaccine, and take blame ourselves for not taking the virus seriously at the start of 2020 AND ALSO blame China for not doing their bit in stopping it from spreading and informing the world in time. None of those are mutually exclusive.  "people being willfully negligent causing others to get sick if they refuse the vaccine" is just false, on two counts. there are cases in which refusing the vaccines is not negligent nor gets others sick. that take of yours tells me that even if you entertain the existence of an in between, you're fully white here(as are 99% of people in this topic). blaming something/someone is useless tryhard rhetoric; finding the cause for something though, should lead to practical consequences in dealing with the problem but for you, it doesn't. you'll forever be stuck with "people being willfully negligent causing others to get sick if they refuse the vaccine" mantra even when science shows that some people had preexisting immunity to covid before covid was a thing. + Show Spoiler +As part of their work, the scientists used serum samples provided by people who did not have COVID-19. To their surprise, they found antibodies that reacted to SARS-CoV-2 in some of the samples. In their paper, the researchers describe a scientific theory that exposure to any of the common human coronaviruses, which can cause the common cold, may lead to immunity against the other common human coronaviruses. They refer to this as immune cross-reactivity .simmilar studies were made in Germany, Netherlands and Singapore. The scientists suspected that this immune “memory” was linked to those people having previously fought off the common cold. A study published Tuesday in the journal Science describes how researchers from the La Jolla Institute for Immunology sought to find evidence supporting this theory.
They examined blood samples taken from healthy subjects collected before the pandemic and examined the T cells in those samples. T cells or, white blood cells, are key parts of the body’s immune system, triggering the antibodies that work to destroy infected cells.
The researchers say T cells remember past infections for decades after a person has had a certain illness. In the samples they examined, they found evidence of T cells “trained” to fight off viruses associated with the common cold. They also were surprised to see that many of the T cells in the sample also recognized COVID-19 without having ever been directly exposed to it.
They suggest this was likely driven by strong similarities between the new coronavirus and the cold-related viruses. you can not negotiate your way to a solution because you'll have to admit that an other side exists and it's valid. I did not read about the two instances you mentioned in the bolded part in the rest of your post, but I am interested in hearing about them. Regarding people being culpable through negligence. it's all a numbers game. Getting the virus, actually becoming ill, becoming ill from the vaccine - we can put a % number on all of these. We can also do that with the causation of: not getting the vaccine --> getting covid --> dying / infecting someone else --> this person dies or infects someone else who then dies or infects someone else who then dies. Hence, it's negligent to not take the vaccine. Ignorance is not just bliss, it also entails culpability. We can advance this to the fact that going to work while ill and infecting someone else with flu or covid - I don't care which - makes you culpable for that person's suffering. Stay home, wear a mask if you must go (public transport / office and in case you go because your country doesn't support sick pay - vote accordingly if you dont want to be culpable. What can we take away from that? If you focus on specific circumstances, it's easy to construct a case where there wasn't any choice but to infect others. Generally, this is not the case - unless you can make it, I would be most interested in that. was in the spoiler. you don't have to get vaccinated because you already have everything the vaccine would provide for you. the rest of your post = false equivocation gibberish. it's as if you just found out that your very existence in the world affects more/other people and it even can get some killed!. even if you try and differentiate between negligence/on purpose or from ignorance/knowingly, you have nothing. @jimmyC - it doesn't matter if he says ALL when his conclusion, his obligatory course of action, is imposed on all. Thanks for pointing out the spoiler, that's my bad. Will have a look at it Regarding the "gibberish", just because you don't put in the effort to understand doesn't mean I'm wrong. Maybe show me where you think I'm wrong instead of stating it like it was a fact. i didn't even get to the wrong part(if any) because you were arguing on premises you made up, on things that were besides the point.
ex: not getting the vaccine --> getting covid --> dying / infecting someone else --> this person dies or infects someone else who then dies or infects someone else who then dies. nothing follows there; random states of being or of acting that you decided are somehow consequential.
even if you somehow find the right context in which all those make sense, the point of contention here(one of them, were two) invalidates your premise: obligatory vaccination ... or else dies, dies, dies etc.
not getting the vaccine --> everything will be fine.
@Acrofales: when you agree with restrictions on non-vaccinated people, you pretty much pressure->force->obligate everyone to get the vaccine.
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On July 06 2021 22:53 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2021 20:04 sharkie wrote:On July 06 2021 16:28 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 15:38 sharkie wrote:On July 06 2021 15:20 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 14:11 sharkie wrote:On July 06 2021 12:27 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 09:50 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On July 06 2021 01:24 JimmiC wrote:On July 05 2021 23:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:[quote] The biggest risk for covid in younger people is in obese people.If you guys want to talk personal responsibility if NA wasn’t so obese then they wouldn’t be having much issue.Of course the crazy lockdowns have actually worsened the obesity problem!! https://theconversation.com/severe-covid-in-young-people-can-mostly-be-explained-by-obesity-new-study-159072[quote] Emergency room visits for the vaccines happen as well, it’s why the FDA has slapped Heart warnings on the Pfizer vaccine for young people.Hundreds and hundreds of cases of myocarditis.And the victims have to pay for their own treatment since the manufacturers have no liability.USA medical system is a disgrace. You do realize that the people who are not taking the vaccine for the most part are doing so, or at least they say they are, because they don't think Covid is that bad. Now that is 1-5% in the hospitalization risk and depending on the country, lets go low .5% risk of death. I wouldn’t say that was the main reason people aren’t taking it.The main reason is people are concerned about side effects, the fact the vaccine is still in phase 3 trials with emergency use approval only and manufacturers are not liable for serious side effects all tie in to that but it’s all been discussed before. As for the 1-5% hospitalisation, this is not for young people.As I said from the start of this the restrictions and recommendations should apply to those 70+, especially in nursing homes.The biggest preventable risk factor for covid in young people is obesity, which as I stated has gotten worse during lockdowns with stay at home orders and gym closures, not to mention locking yourself in your house isn’t great for Vitamin D levels which are also known to help the immune system fight covid. The policies you support are having a massively detrimental impact on young people health wise, financially and mentally. I support the policies the doctors suggest since they have BYFAR the most knowledge and have been mostly right. You seem to not realize that Covid has a massively detrimental impact on young, medium, and old people, health, financially and mentally. The measures do as well, but less, if you were at all aware you would notice that doing nothing is worse, and not a little but exponentially worse for health, financially and mentally. I wish I lived in a world where I could somehow ignore all the information outside of my own anecdotal experiences and pretend like there was this option where the government did nothing, no measures were taken and Covid just fizzled out. But sadly that is clearly a fantasy. So you can't act as if measures were the problem unless you think that no measures downsides are smaller, which would be incredibly hard to fathom someone actually thinking. You can look to countries where the did far to little, it is not pretty. Really? What country with good healthcare did little and its not pretty? Italy, then there healthcare was overrun and they did something. Same thing happened in New York city. You do realize the measures were put in place when the "good healthcare" could not keep up right? It is very strange to me that very public events that happened recently are a mystery to some. I could counter with Taiwan, Thailand, Japan, ...? Also with Italy there are quite some documentations already on what really went wrong there. (bad restrictions by WHO/government, wrong treatments of covid patients) How do you counter with them? That the voluntary measures were better followed so the government ones happened later? Or do you think they didn't happen? On 21 March, Bangkok City Hall authorities declared a wide-ranging shutdown of various businesses. Bangkok Governor Aswin Kwanmuang disclosed after the City Hall meeting that the board had passed a resolution to close establishments under Section 35 of the Communicable Diseases Act B.E. 2558 (2015), effective for a period of 22 days from 22 March to 12 April 2020. This was then extended from 12 April 2020 to 30 April 2020.[73] Only supermarkets, pharmacies, and takeaway restaurants will be allowed to stay open at the malls.[74]
The government issued a curfew to take effect on 3 April 2020 between 10pm-4am in order to limit the spread. The government has additionally issued a travel ban for all foreigners entering Thailand.[75] Some critics of the government have been arrested for allegedly spreading false information about the coronavirus pandemic.[76][77]
The curfew was cut from 10–4 to 11–4, then 11-3 and officially ended on 15 June 2020.[78]
Early April 2021, Bangkok's entertainment venues were ordered to be closed for 2 weeks.[79] Mid-April 2021, schools were ordered to be closed for 2 weeks, [80] taking the 2000+ daily cases into consideration.[81] Since 26th April, more businesses including gyms closed for 2 weeks.[82] On 5 March 2020, Abe introduced a draft amendment to the Special Measures Act to Counter New Types of Influenza of 2012 to extend the law's emergency measures for an influenza outbreak to include COVID-19. He met separately with the heads of five opposition parties on 4 March 2020 to promote a "united front" in passing the reforms. The National Diet passed the amendment on 13 March 2020, making it effective for the next two years.[60][61] The amendment allows the Prime Minister to declare a "state of emergency" in specific areas where COVID-19 poses a grave threat to the lives and economic livelihood of residents. During such a period, governors of affected areas will receive the following powers: (1) to instruct residents to avoid unnecessary outings unless they are workers in such essential services like health care and public transportation; (2) to restrict the use or request the temporary closure of businesses and facilities, including schools, social welfare facilities, theatres, music venues, and sports stadiums; (3) to expropriate private land and buildings to erect new hospitals; and (4) to requisition medical supplies and food from companies that refuse to sell them, punish those that hoard or do not comply, and force firms to help transport emergency goods. The Taiwanese government announced on 24 January 2020 a ban on the export of face masks before the epidemic had spread to many countries, which caused controversy; however, after the outbreak of the epidemic, people rushed to buy masks in many countries around the world.[226][227][171] (Incidents of face-mask confiscation by a government occurred in mainland China, the world's top face-mask manufacturer. Voluntary measures did work, it is too bad most of the western countries were to arrogant/ignorant to actually do them. But none of your examples prove your point, rather they prove the opposite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Thailand#Lockdown,_curfew,_and_inter-provincial_travel_banhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Japanhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Taiwan#Domestic_response If you read the articles: e.g. Thailand one said it that they had measures till end of June 2020 and then nothing till March 2021. Thats 3/4 of a year where the Thai were freer than any Western country and still numbers were better/as bad as ours. Same with Japan, they had the rough 2-3 months march 2020 till summer but then also eased all restrictions. And vaccination rates in these countries are horrible. I am not saying no to all measures. What I am saying is that the West completely panicked and created more problems (psychological, financial) with their ultra strict measures. That is because of your base assumptions being wrong. The reason they could wait is because their populous took Covid very serious from the start and the people in a much higher degree followed the voluntary measures. The real frustrating part is people with your world view were and are the people who did not. So you are complaining about the situation that you created as if it was somehow how people like me, who did follow the voluntary measures fault. It is strange and backwards logic. Had the numbers done what they did in those countries so would of our measures. Sadly people like yourself did not let that happen and are still taking no responsibility and for some reason despite all the facts, data and information continue to make false and frankly crazy presumptions because of confirmation bias. The reality is that because the west has so many arrogant jerks the voluntary measures were completely ineffective and all those time periods accomplished were letting spread get out of control. It is those same people that are now refusing the vaccine. It does everything these people say they want but instead of rolling up there sleeves and getting back to work, they have created new alternative facts that completely argue with what was being claimed just months ago. None of those countries prove your position that they had "good healthcare" and let it buck. It is the opposite they put in their mandatory measures at lower numbers then most of the west. They just had populouses that actually took it series from the start. These examples of yours prove, again , that listening to the doctors is the right thing to do. And that the people holding antimask rallies, flouting public.health measures with social gatherings and so on were the problem and continue to be the problem. Sadly between confirmation bias and that certain populist leaders made this political instead of looking back to see what can be learned and how to do it better next time, there is a large percentage of people looking back for how they can be right and the amount of evidence they choose to simply ignore to be "right" is staggering. For example, you do know that those countries had high and early mask uptake right? You now can look back and see that listening to the doctors was right, and the more people that do the better off that country is including less measures. Take that learning get vaccinated, and tell your whole social circle too as well. Vaccine passports and all that crap won't be needed if we can get in the high 80s or preferably better, this is why there is no vaccine passports for small pox because health authorities know how high the rates are. Using countries who took covid way more serious than the west (Populous, government and doctors) as to examples on why the west took it too serious and "panicked" makes no sense.
Japan hasnt taken covid seriously at all? o.O
Ask any Japanese please. Also you sound very condescending
On July 06 2021 22:00 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2021 20:04 sharkie wrote:On July 06 2021 18:34 maybenexttime wrote:On July 06 2021 15:38 sharkie wrote:On July 06 2021 15:20 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 14:11 sharkie wrote:On July 06 2021 12:27 JimmiC wrote:On July 06 2021 09:50 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On July 06 2021 01:24 JimmiC wrote:On July 05 2021 23:12 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:[quote] The biggest risk for covid in younger people is in obese people.If you guys want to talk personal responsibility if NA wasn’t so obese then they wouldn’t be having much issue.Of course the crazy lockdowns have actually worsened the obesity problem!! https://theconversation.com/severe-covid-in-young-people-can-mostly-be-explained-by-obesity-new-study-159072[quote] Emergency room visits for the vaccines happen as well, it’s why the FDA has slapped Heart warnings on the Pfizer vaccine for young people.Hundreds and hundreds of cases of myocarditis.And the victims have to pay for their own treatment since the manufacturers have no liability.USA medical system is a disgrace. You do realize that the people who are not taking the vaccine for the most part are doing so, or at least they say they are, because they don't think Covid is that bad. Now that is 1-5% in the hospitalization risk and depending on the country, lets go low .5% risk of death. I wouldn’t say that was the main reason people aren’t taking it.The main reason is people are concerned about side effects, the fact the vaccine is still in phase 3 trials with emergency use approval only and manufacturers are not liable for serious side effects all tie in to that but it’s all been discussed before. As for the 1-5% hospitalisation, this is not for young people.As I said from the start of this the restrictions and recommendations should apply to those 70+, especially in nursing homes.The biggest preventable risk factor for covid in young people is obesity, which as I stated has gotten worse during lockdowns with stay at home orders and gym closures, not to mention locking yourself in your house isn’t great for Vitamin D levels which are also known to help the immune system fight covid. The policies you support are having a massively detrimental impact on young people health wise, financially and mentally. I support the policies the doctors suggest since they have BYFAR the most knowledge and have been mostly right. You seem to not realize that Covid has a massively detrimental impact on young, medium, and old people, health, financially and mentally. The measures do as well, but less, if you were at all aware you would notice that doing nothing is worse, and not a little but exponentially worse for health, financially and mentally. I wish I lived in a world where I could somehow ignore all the information outside of my own anecdotal experiences and pretend like there was this option where the government did nothing, no measures were taken and Covid just fizzled out. But sadly that is clearly a fantasy. So you can't act as if measures were the problem unless you think that no measures downsides are smaller, which would be incredibly hard to fathom someone actually thinking. You can look to countries where the did far to little, it is not pretty. Really? What country with good healthcare did little and its not pretty? Italy, then there healthcare was overrun and they did something. Same thing happened in New York city. You do realize the measures were put in place when the "good healthcare" could not keep up right? It is very strange to me that very public events that happened recently are a mystery to some. I could counter with Taiwan, Thailand, Japan, ...? Also with Italy there are quite some documentations already on what really went wrong there. (bad restrictions by WHO/government, wrong treatments of covid patients) Where did you get the idea that they did little to fight the pandemic? That's nonsense. Compared to the west they did little. Those countries, as well as South Korea and Vietnam, tracked close contacts very aggressively and isolated any suspected case. E.g. in Taiwan they identified on average 17 contacts per case, whereas in the West it was merely 1-2 or less. People in the West were crying about privacy and freedoms, so the governments had to eventually impose lockdowns. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03518-4
Thank you. This is a good post and clears up what has really happened and why the Asian countries were more successful combating the virus. I didnt know that!
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On July 07 2021 00:40 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2021 15:07 Artisreal wrote:On July 06 2021 13:58 xM(Z wrote:On July 05 2021 01:29 Artisreal wrote:On July 05 2021 00:46 xM(Z wrote:On July 04 2021 21:17 Acrofales wrote:On July 04 2021 20:45 xM(Z wrote:On July 04 2021 15:07 Acrofales wrote:On July 04 2021 13:42 xM(Z wrote:
so everyone who died from covid was killed by someone else ... and that's the chinese? Without actually agreeing, let's say "yes" for the sake of argument. Why do you ask and where do you want to take this love of thought? well, it can't be yes because then you go into victimism. your argument is driven by a victims' mentality(personality trait) which defeats itself(you're unreceptive to evidence to the contrary). and it can't be no, because then, people who had covid and spread it around, didn't actually kill anyone(life happened) so you have with no argument to begin with; culpability goes out of the window. so you're left with this in-between shit, neither yes nor no, that needs to be negotiated between affected parties, reasonable adults, competent authorities ... etc; but you're incapable of negotiating life because no one taught you how to nor told you that you have to, in order to get along with ... other people. rejecting that conundrum, you fall back to your victim instincts and go with 'yes', then force the world to embrace/accept your take as the only reasonable one. now, if that's you, wouldn't people have objective reasons to ignore your take?; because after all, it comes from weakness. Aren't you a bit old to finally discover that not everything is black or white? I guess... better late than never? As to what you conclude afterwards, I don't really get. We can both attribute people being willfully negligent causing others to get sick if they refuse the vaccine, and take blame ourselves for not taking the virus seriously at the start of 2020 AND ALSO blame China for not doing their bit in stopping it from spreading and informing the world in time. None of those are mutually exclusive. "people being willfully negligent causing others to get sick if they refuse the vaccine" is just false, on two counts. there are cases in which refusing the vaccines is not negligent nor gets others sick. that take of yours tells me that even if you entertain the existence of an in between, you're fully white here(as are 99% of people in this topic). blaming something/someone is useless tryhard rhetoric; finding the cause for something though, should lead to practical consequences in dealing with the problem but for you, it doesn't. you'll forever be stuck with "people being willfully negligent causing others to get sick if they refuse the vaccine" mantra even when science shows that some people had preexisting immunity to covid before covid was a thing. + Show Spoiler +As part of their work, the scientists used serum samples provided by people who did not have COVID-19. To their surprise, they found antibodies that reacted to SARS-CoV-2 in some of the samples. In their paper, the researchers describe a scientific theory that exposure to any of the common human coronaviruses, which can cause the common cold, may lead to immunity against the other common human coronaviruses. They refer to this as immune cross-reactivity .simmilar studies were made in Germany, Netherlands and Singapore. The scientists suspected that this immune “memory” was linked to those people having previously fought off the common cold. A study published Tuesday in the journal Science describes how researchers from the La Jolla Institute for Immunology sought to find evidence supporting this theory.
They examined blood samples taken from healthy subjects collected before the pandemic and examined the T cells in those samples. T cells or, white blood cells, are key parts of the body’s immune system, triggering the antibodies that work to destroy infected cells.
The researchers say T cells remember past infections for decades after a person has had a certain illness. In the samples they examined, they found evidence of T cells “trained” to fight off viruses associated with the common cold. They also were surprised to see that many of the T cells in the sample also recognized COVID-19 without having ever been directly exposed to it.
They suggest this was likely driven by strong similarities between the new coronavirus and the cold-related viruses. you can not negotiate your way to a solution because you'll have to admit that an other side exists and it's valid. I did not read about the two instances you mentioned in the bolded part in the rest of your post, but I am interested in hearing about them. Regarding people being culpable through negligence. it's all a numbers game. Getting the virus, actually becoming ill, becoming ill from the vaccine - we can put a % number on all of these. We can also do that with the causation of: not getting the vaccine --> getting covid --> dying / infecting someone else --> this person dies or infects someone else who then dies or infects someone else who then dies. Hence, it's negligent to not take the vaccine. Ignorance is not just bliss, it also entails culpability. We can advance this to the fact that going to work while ill and infecting someone else with flu or covid - I don't care which - makes you culpable for that person's suffering. Stay home, wear a mask if you must go (public transport / office and in case you go because your country doesn't support sick pay - vote accordingly if you dont want to be culpable. What can we take away from that? If you focus on specific circumstances, it's easy to construct a case where there wasn't any choice but to infect others. Generally, this is not the case - unless you can make it, I would be most interested in that. was in the spoiler. you don't have to get vaccinated because you already have everything the vaccine would provide for you. the rest of your post = false equivocation gibberish. it's as if you just found out that your very existence in the world affects more/other people and it even can get some killed!. even if you try and differentiate between negligence/on purpose or from ignorance/knowingly, you have nothing. @jimmyC - it doesn't matter if he says ALL when his conclusion, his obligatory course of action, is imposed on all. Thanks for pointing out the spoiler, that's my bad. Will have a look at it Regarding the "gibberish", just because you don't put in the effort to understand doesn't mean I'm wrong. Maybe show me where you think I'm wrong instead of stating it like it was a fact. i didn't even get to the wrong part(if any) because you were arguing on premises you made up, on things that were besides the point. ex: not getting the vaccine --> getting covid --> dying / infecting someone else --> this person dies or infects someone else who then dies or infects someone else who then dies. nothing follows there; random states of being or of acting that you decided are somehow consequential. even if you somehow find the right context in which all those make sense, the point of contention here(one of them, were two) invalidates your premise: obligatory vaccination ... or else dies, dies, dies etc. not getting the vaccine --> everything will be fine. @Acrofales: when you agree with restrictions on non-vaccinated people, you pretty much pressure->force->obligate everyone to get the vaccine.
I mean, this is how a virus that is contractible via droplets spreads.
I don't understand what of that chain of events is not clear to you?
Or I'm misunderstanding what you criticise of my example.
And that's the important bit here. It's an example of what happened.
People died because others refused to wear masks or distanced themselves.
This is happening now with people refusing the vaccine. Gettin ill and subsequently infecting others.
?? It's nothing I decide, it's just what happens purely due to the amount of people getting infected. Purely owing to mathematics.
look at the US, look at Russia, look at Brazil.
Refusing mask or vaccine, same outcome. People die. People refusing to wear masks or taking the vaccine simply out of ignorance or spite has real life consequences.
Do you agree with that? is the point of our disagreement or, as I said before, am I grossly misunderstanding here?
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covid cases are going back up in israel cus of the delta variant, they've been the best at vaccinating so far so any serious spike is worrisome to see
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Finally getting my first Biontech shot on friday. My sisters company offered vaccintions for all employees and there are a lot more people declining the offer then expected, so she could offer a dose to a family member.
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On July 07 2021 11:11 TT1 wrote:
covid cases are going back up in israel cus of the delta variant, they've been the best at vaccinating so far so any serious spike is worrisome to see
Afaik a vaccination doesnt stop you from carrying the virus no?
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On July 07 2021 14:33 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2021 11:11 TT1 wrote:
covid cases are going back up in israel cus of the delta variant, they've been the best at vaccinating so far so any serious spike is worrisome to see Afaik a vaccination doesnt stop you from carrying the virus no?
90%-95% for mrna vaccines
but we also need to know when the earliest vaccinated group got their 2nd shot and which shots they were, regardless i think this will most likely increase the odds of getting booster shots and an update to mrna vaccines, just my take tho (assuming the delta variants are an issue)
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Nope, why should it?
Also: While Israel is hailed as "very vaxxed", if those numbers (sorry German, but scroll to the lists or there is a plot) are correct, only about 65% of Israel is vaccinated. That is not "that" impressive, as the country propagades!
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On July 07 2021 15:00 Geisterkarle wrote:Nope, why should it? Also: While Israel is hailed as "very vaxxed", if those numbers (sorry German, but scroll to the lists or there is a plot) are correct, only about 65% of Israel is vaccinated. That is not "that" impressive, as the country propagades!
Average age of Israel is relatively young at 30.5, so I think part of it is that a large portion of the country can't get vaccinated due to age. Canada is almost 10 years older on average and is struggling to hit the 70% overall mark. Delta is apparently very capable of spreading among the younger demographic, even if it doesn't kill many of them.
Israel showed efficacy of 2 doses is down to 64% and they have 85% adult population fully vaccinated. Delta accounts for 90% of new infections as well, I’d say they’re a much better example of what happens when delta comes to town.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-confirms-vaccine-less-effective-against-delta-variant-eyes-third-dose/
Found a source. Not a lot of fun if that is the case, as places with lots of less effective vaccines (hi sinovac) have had some struggles in controlling covid even with higher vaccination rates. Seems like a booster shot later this year or early next year is probably in the cards for most richer countries.
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On July 07 2021 16:42 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2021 15:00 Geisterkarle wrote:Nope, why should it? Also: While Israel is hailed as "very vaxxed", if those numbers (sorry German, but scroll to the lists or there is a plot) are correct, only about 65% of Israel is vaccinated. That is not "that" impressive, as the country propagades! Average age of Israel is relatively young at 30.5, so I think part of it is that a large portion of the country can't get vaccinated due to age. Canada is almost 10 years older on average and is struggling to hit the 70% overall mark. Delta is apparently very capable of spreading among the younger demographic, even if it doesn't kill many of them. Show nested quote +Israel showed efficacy of 2 doses is down to 64% and they have 85% adult population fully vaccinated. Delta accounts for 90% of new infections as well, I’d say they’re a much better example of what happens when delta comes to town.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-confirms-vaccine-less-effective-against-delta-variant-eyes-third-dose/Found a source. Not a lot of fun if that is the case, as places with lots of less effective vaccines (hi sinovac) have had some struggles in controlling covid even with higher vaccination rates. Seems like a booster shot later this year or early next year is probably in the cards for most richer countries.
Yeah, Israel very recently approved Pfizer for use in the age group 10+, and have started ramping up vaccinations again, but it stalled for a while because everybody eligibile was either vaccinated, or belonged to some segments of the population who were very resistant to vaccination.
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Recent research from Israel shows the Pfizer is only ~64% effective against the delta strain anyway, Maybe that rate can be lifted with another booster shot?
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/06/health/israel-pfizer-efficacy-delta-variant-intl/index.html
Pfizer vaccine protection takes a hit as Delta variant spreads, Israeli government says
In a brief statement issued on Monday, the government said that as of June 6, the vaccine provided 64% protection against infection. In May -- when the Alpha variant dominated in Israel and the Delta strain had not yet spread widely -- it found that the shot was 95.3% effective against all infections.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/wE4casq.png)
