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On January 05 2021 17:51 Magic Powers wrote:It just keeps getting worse... "There have been some issues with people refusing the vaccine, Cuomo said. About 10% of nursing home residents statewide and 15% of their staff have refused to get the vaccine, state Health Commissioner Howard Zucker said at the briefing. The state doesn’t currently have numbers on hospital workers who have refused to get vaccinated, Zucker said." https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cuomo-seeks-speed-n-y-194419478.htmlI understand people who refuse vaccination, even elderly people, because the level of misinformation affects many people. But that some staff also refuses it is outrageous. If I had a say I'd tell them they're fired either when I find a replacement for them or when the pandemic is over. They appear to be refusing at a higher rate than the most at-risk population, this is outrageous.
My father in law works in a care home environment and 50% of staff did not want the vaccine...
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On January 05 2021 19:56 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2021 17:51 Magic Powers wrote:It just keeps getting worse... "There have been some issues with people refusing the vaccine, Cuomo said. About 10% of nursing home residents statewide and 15% of their staff have refused to get the vaccine, state Health Commissioner Howard Zucker said at the briefing. The state doesn’t currently have numbers on hospital workers who have refused to get vaccinated, Zucker said." https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cuomo-seeks-speed-n-y-194419478.htmlI understand people who refuse vaccination, even elderly people, because the level of misinformation affects many people. But that some staff also refuses it is outrageous. If I had a say I'd tell them they're fired either when I find a replacement for them or when the pandemic is over. They appear to be refusing at a higher rate than the most at-risk population, this is outrageous. My father in law works in a care home environment and 50% of staff did not want the vaccine...
50%?! Does he have a way of getting the news about that out there to people?
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On January 05 2021 20:20 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2021 19:56 Artisreal wrote:On January 05 2021 17:51 Magic Powers wrote:It just keeps getting worse... "There have been some issues with people refusing the vaccine, Cuomo said. About 10% of nursing home residents statewide and 15% of their staff have refused to get the vaccine, state Health Commissioner Howard Zucker said at the briefing. The state doesn’t currently have numbers on hospital workers who have refused to get vaccinated, Zucker said." https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cuomo-seeks-speed-n-y-194419478.htmlI understand people who refuse vaccination, even elderly people, because the level of misinformation affects many people. But that some staff also refuses it is outrageous. If I had a say I'd tell them they're fired either when I find a replacement for them or when the pandemic is over. They appear to be refusing at a higher rate than the most at-risk population, this is outrageous. My father in law works in a care home environment and 50% of staff did not want the vaccine... 50%?! Does he have a way of getting the news about that out there to people?
It is in the news every day in Germany...
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What You need to do is get some VIPs to vaccinate ahead of schedule (even better if corruption is involved). This happened in Poland and in one day narrative switched from "I dont want to vaccinate, it is dengerous" to "how they fucking there, vaccines belong to everyone!".
Maybe it is just polish thing but we might not want some things unless of course our neighbour has it, then its is most important thing ever.
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On January 05 2021 22:25 Silvanel wrote:
What You need to do is get some VIPs to vaccinate ahead of schedule (even better if corruption is involved). This happened in Poland and in one day narrative switched from "I dont want to vaccinate, it is dengerous" to "how they fucking there, vaccines belong to everyone!".
Maybe it is just polish thing but we might not want some things unless of course our neighbour has it, then its is most important thing ever.
Sadly, that's literally the opposite mindset for American anti-vaxxers, given the correlation between being anti-science and politically conservative. They not only don't mind when rich people get extra benefits out of turn, but they specifically vote for that to happen.
I do think, however, it may be possible to trick those people in a slightly different way: If a fake rumor started that only liberals / Biden voters would be allowed to become vaccinated, then perhaps conservatives / Trump voters would get pissed off enough and insist on getting vaccinated too. They seem much more aggressive towards the left having something, rather than the rich having something.
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The vaccine i want is the biontech vaccin but i will most likely get offfered the oxford vaccine.
Wouldnt it be better to now focus all efforts on the most succesfull vaccines instead of keeping 6+ different ones around?
The developers can get back their costs and a decent profit but i dont see much point in putting further resources into development and production of those vaccines when other vaccines are more succesfull.
Right now you can not chose the vaccine you want and you get allocated one,i can understand this when there is a shortage but i think in the end all people should be able to chose the vaccine they want even if that would come at a slightly higher cost. The option to chose could increase the acceptence of the vaccines and the willingness of people to get them,if only by giving people the feeling of having some control over it.
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Whatever vaccine lets me go back to living a normal life, I'll take. The logistics on both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are utter shit, so I expect those will go to the highest priority individuals (politicians, Israelis, and medical workers) while the logistically superior ones will take over soon after. All of them reduce the occurrence of severe cases to near-zero, so it gets the job done.
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Just pay people to get vaccinated.
If you offer up a few hundred bucks to healthcare workers that get vaccinated, there's very few people that'd turn it down. It gets you way the hell up in vaccination rates at a comparatively low cost. In vancouver, VCH serves ~1.25 million people with 14,000 staff. A $200 bonus to any employee that gets the vaccine is pennies in the overall budget, and will easily get compliance to 90+%.
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On January 06 2021 03:35 Lmui wrote:
Just pay people to get vaccinated.
If you offer up a few hundred bucks to healthcare workers that get vaccinated, there's very few people that'd turn it down. It gets you way the hell up in vaccination rates at a comparatively low cost. In vancouver, VCH serves ~1.25 million people with 14,000 staff. A $200 bonus to any employee that gets the vaccine is pennies in the overall budget, and will easily get compliance to 90+%.
Or the other way around. Keep 60% of the vaccines for urgent groups, let people pay to get vaccinated from the remaining 40%. I'd happily pay $200 dollars to get the vaccine right now. Use that money to buy more vaccines.
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Just got a positive test.
Being a dialysis patient its pretty damn scary but i feel fine at the moment.
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$200 isn't much compared to the people with money.
Much easier to find and sell 10000 doses to the billionaires and multimillionaires around the world at $20k each than to get 1000000 doses for regular joes at $200 each.
I'm quite certain it's already happening in the background because that's how the world works. Just a question of which middlemen are getting paid.
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On January 06 2021 04:07 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2021 04:02 Jockmcplop wrote:
Just got a positive test.
Being a dialysis patient its pretty damn scary but i feel fine at the moment. Good luck hopefully you will be low or no symptom person, if you change how you feel head into the hospital can't be too careful.
Thanks 
I'm at hospital every other day anyway so I'm monitored, and honestly I think i will be a low symptom case because i felt dreadful on Sunday but absolutely fine today.
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Hope it turns out ok Jock
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The government should be footing the bill for vaccinating the population, no question about that. The only people who benefit from "pay to get vaccine" are the well-off who want to use money to prioritize themselves over public safety, and there's no reason to accommodate that.
If there's a problem with people wanting to take it, which will happen eventually - I'd favor making vaccination mandatory over a payment.
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Northern Ireland27228 Posts
On January 06 2021 04:13 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2021 04:07 JimmiC wrote:On January 06 2021 04:02 Jockmcplop wrote:
Just got a positive test.
Being a dialysis patient its pretty damn scary but i feel fine at the moment. Good luck hopefully you will be low or no symptom person, if you change how you feel head into the hospital can't be too careful. Thanks I'm at hospital every other day anyway so I'm monitored, and honestly I think i will be a low symptom case because i felt dreadful on Sunday but absolutely fine today.
Sounds positive as can be expected so far, best of luck man!
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On January 06 2021 04:42 LegalLord wrote:
The government should be footing the bill for vaccinating the population, no question about that. The only people who benefit from "pay to get vaccine" are the well-off who want to use money to prioritize themselves over public safety, and there's no reason to accommodate that.
If there's a problem with people wanting to take it, which will happen eventually - I'd favor making vaccination mandatory over a payment.
I am not certain that that will happen eventually. At the point where we have enough vaccine for it to matter that some people don't want to be vaccinated, we also have at least 6 more months of data of that vaccine with at least tens or hundreds of millions of people having been vaccinated. Maybe this is misplaced, but my faith in humanity combined the assumption that a lot of people might want to be able to no longer think about covid regulations makes me hope that a lot more people will be willing to get vaccinated at that point.
I just don't believe that there are that many hardcore anti-vaxxers. In Germany, more than 90% of all children get vaccinated against stuff like measles. This, to me, implies that there are less than 10% anti-vaxxers among the new parents, and i hope that the numbers in the population at large isn't significantly larger.
If at least some of the people skeptical about the covid vaccines are open to reason, than 6 more month of data with gigantic amounts of people should help reduce the number of people who are worried. Maybe that is enough to get to herd immunity stuff.
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On January 06 2021 04:02 Jockmcplop wrote:
Just got a positive test.
Being a dialysis patient its pretty damn scary but i feel fine at the moment.
Good luck with covid and also your other health issues
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On January 06 2021 06:16 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2021 04:42 LegalLord wrote:
The government should be footing the bill for vaccinating the population, no question about that. The only people who benefit from "pay to get vaccine" are the well-off who want to use money to prioritize themselves over public safety, and there's no reason to accommodate that.
If there's a problem with people wanting to take it, which will happen eventually - I'd favor making vaccination mandatory over a payment. I am not certain that that will happen eventually. At the point where we have enough vaccine for it to matter that some people don't want to be vaccinated, we also have at least 6 more months of data of that vaccine with at least tens or hundreds of millions of people having been vaccinated. Maybe this is misplaced, but my faith in humanity combined the assumption that a lot of people might want to be able to no longer think about covid regulations makes me hope that a lot more people will be willing to get vaccinated at that point. I just don't believe that there are that many hardcore anti-vaxxers. In Germany, more than 90% of all children get vaccinated against stuff like measles. This, to me, implies that there are less than 10% anti-vaxxers among the new parents, and i hope that the numbers in the population at large isn't significantly larger. If at least some of the people skeptical about the covid vaccines are open to reason, than 6 more month of data with gigantic amounts of people should help reduce the number of people who are worried. Maybe that is enough to get to herd immunity stuff.
I expect that most of the vaccine skeptics are folks who rightly identify that these vaccines were pushed through quickly and that there's good reason to hold them as at least somewhat suspect. My personal take, which seems to be pretty common, is that while that's a valid concern, the cure poses a far lesser risk than the disease so it's better to take it.
You'll probably get about 40 percent of the population willing to take it "at risk" (relatively speaking, of course), another 30 percent who would take it if the rollout goes smoothly, and the final 30 percent with moderate-to-strong antivax sentiment. I don't know if vaccines like MMR are mandatory in Germany for school attendance, but they certainly are in the US, which will definitely give you much more uptake of the vaccine than if it weren't, getting you as far as 90 percent despite the fact that there's probably a good number of antivaxxers in that number. That, in my eyes, is a good argument for making this vaccine mandatory once the supply bottleneck is no longer an issue.
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On January 06 2021 06:36 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2021 06:16 Simberto wrote:On January 06 2021 04:42 LegalLord wrote:
The government should be footing the bill for vaccinating the population, no question about that. The only people who benefit from "pay to get vaccine" are the well-off who want to use money to prioritize themselves over public safety, and there's no reason to accommodate that.
If there's a problem with people wanting to take it, which will happen eventually - I'd favor making vaccination mandatory over a payment. I am not certain that that will happen eventually. At the point where we have enough vaccine for it to matter that some people don't want to be vaccinated, we also have at least 6 more months of data of that vaccine with at least tens or hundreds of millions of people having been vaccinated. Maybe this is misplaced, but my faith in humanity combined the assumption that a lot of people might want to be able to no longer think about covid regulations makes me hope that a lot more people will be willing to get vaccinated at that point. I just don't believe that there are that many hardcore anti-vaxxers. In Germany, more than 90% of all children get vaccinated against stuff like measles. This, to me, implies that there are less than 10% anti-vaxxers among the new parents, and i hope that the numbers in the population at large isn't significantly larger. If at least some of the people skeptical about the covid vaccines are open to reason, than 6 more month of data with gigantic amounts of people should help reduce the number of people who are worried. Maybe that is enough to get to herd immunity stuff. I expect that most of the vaccine skeptics are folks who rightly identify that these vaccines were pushed through quickly and that there's good reason to hold them as at least somewhat suspect. My personal take, which seems to be pretty common, is that while that's a valid concern, the cure poses a far lesser risk than the disease so it's better to take it. You'll probably get about 40 percent of the population willing to take it "at risk" (relatively speaking, of course), another 30 percent who would take it if the rollout goes smoothly, and the final 30 percent with moderate-to-strong antivax sentiment. I don't know if vaccines like MMR are mandatory in Germany for school attendance, but they certainly are in the US, which will definitely give you much more uptake of the vaccine than if it weren't, getting you as far as 90 percent despite the fact that there's probably a good number of antivaxxers in that number. That, in my eyes, is a good argument for making this vaccine mandatory once the supply bottleneck is no longer an issue.
I agree. It seems there are quite a few people here that are not even open to the idea that there is some validity to being skeptical of a first-of-its-kind vaccine that was given emergency authorization by the FDA and whose manufacturers were given immunity from any legal liabilities if their vaccines harm anyone. Anyone that can't admit that being skeptical of this vaccine is not entirely unreasonable is just displaying a different kind of close-mindedness. But like you said, it beats dying of COVID.
The other thing that's worth mentioning is do we really need to get to herd immunity? We really need to get to a point where the healthcare systems are not being overrun by COVID, which I think is a much smaller % than the 80-90% that is theorized to provide herd immunity.
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