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Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. |
unless you know testing #s these stats don't mean much. For example, Ontario did a small fraction of the tests they did several months ago. So what does the growth in positive tests mean? who knows.
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Is anyone else becoming increasingly irritated with the European Medicines Agency?
The UK has bought a total of 357 million doses of vaccines, for a population of 66 million. With the Astrazeneca approval, they're now ready to give 150 million doses as soon as they're delivered - and given that they approve everything earlier it's likely they'll get their orders sooner. The US has a 100M+100M Pfizer order, on top of a 100M+100M Moderna order and a 300M Astrazeneca order.
Meanwhile, the EU initially only bought 200 million doses from Pfizer, instead of a proposed 500M, because they were too expensive. At 12€ a shot, that means we didn't want to spend 3.6B for one of the leading vaccines to stop a virus causing hundreds of billions in damages every week that goes by. So we recently bought 100M more, which I suppose is now at the back of the line for delivery.
As for Astrazeneca, this is what the EU regulator said yesterday:
“Not even enough to warrant a conditional marketing licence”, he said. “We need additional data about the quality of the vaccine. And after that, the company has to formally apply.”
This made it “improbable” that an approval could already be granted next month[January], Wathion said.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-astrazeneca/astrazeneca-vaccine-not-ready-for-quick-european-approval-watchdog-official-says-idUSKBN2930XC
We're taking excessive caution and seemingly ignoring a simple cost-benefit analysis in all of this. Other developed nations seem to be dealing with this more intelligently. We even have the advantage over the US of having more centralized health systems that surely can do a better job of getting the vaccines to people. Meanwhile, Israel is going to reach 10% of the population vaccinated by the end of this week (!!!).
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
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Is there a single agency responsible for buying drugs for all the members of the EU? Can individual countries buy their own vaccines? 12 euros a shot does seem like pennies compared to what covid has already done.
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On December 31 2020 07:18 BlackJack wrote:
Is there a single agency responsible for buying drugs for all the members of the EU? Can individual countries buy their own vaccines? 12 euros a shot does seem like pennies compared to what covid has already done.
24 euros since it's 2 shots? But yeah, it's not much in comparison.
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On December 31 2020 07:18 BlackJack wrote:
Is there a single agency responsible for buying drugs for all the members of the EU? Can individual countries buy their own vaccines? 12 euros a shot does seem like pennies compared to what covid has already done.
Initially the big countries stepped up to assure initial orders for the astrazeneca vaccine, an effort that was then taken over by the EU. All orders have been made by the European commission (not the EMA, my bad) and then distributed evenly to all countries according to population. Germany for example has been getting increasingly frustrated with the process.
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On December 31 2020 08:44 warding wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2020 07:18 BlackJack wrote:
Is there a single agency responsible for buying drugs for all the members of the EU? Can individual countries buy their own vaccines? 12 euros a shot does seem like pennies compared to what covid has already done. Initially the big countries stepped up to assure initial orders for the astrazeneca vaccine, an effort that was then taken over by the EU. All orders have been made by the European commission (not the EMA, my bad) and then distributed evenly to all countries according to population. Germany for example has been getting increasingly frustrated with the process.
So would it just be bad form for Germany to buy their own doses of the vaccine or are they only allowed to go through that channel?
It would seem like even more important than the price is when the doses will get there. 12 euros for a dose in January seems like a much better deal than 12 euros for a dose in August. I wonder how that is getting sorted out.
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A few days ago I was told about the meningitis vaccine incident that resulted in a death in the AstraZeneca trial, but I can't find a single unbiased source (news or study) covering that incident and explaining what exactly happened. Biased sources claim that it's ethically questionable to give meningitis shots to people in a phase 3 trial, while (seemingly) unbiased sources don't even attempt to explain the reasoning (which is equally frustrating) or the cause of death and simply conclude with saying that the AstraZeneca vaccine is considered safe (which is not the question, but would become its own question if there was indeed an ethical misstep with the meningitis shot), simply because the death occured in (one of?) the control group(s).
"A source familiar with the matter told Reuters the trial would have been suspended if the volunteer who died had received the COVID-19 vaccine, suggesting the person was part of the control group that was given a meningitis jab."
So this says the person who died was not given a placebo, but Meningococcal Vaccination (see link from CDC below).
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brazil-vaccine-idUSKBN2762MO
"The patient was identified as Joao Pedro Feitosa, a 28-year-old doctor in Rio de Janeiro who had been on the frontlines of the COVID-19 pandemic, Brazilian outlet O Globo reported.
The outlet reported that the volunteer had been given a placebo and not the trial vaccine, citing unnamed sources.
AstraZeneca declined to comment on the case, citing medical confidentiality."
This contradicts reuters' report, saying he was given a placebo. It also states that he was a 28 y/o doctor working at the frontlines. Was he given a meningitis shot as standard procedure for his job?
https://nypost.com/2020/10/21/volunteer-in-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-trial-dies-in-brazil/
This of course could explain why biased sources reported that people were given meningitis shots "so it wouldn't raise suspicion" among them. If a doctor receives a placebo, he/she would be among the group of people with sufficient expertise to suspect that he/she may've been given a placebo.
Or it could simply mean that meningitis shots are standard procedure for frontline doctors in that area, and he was due to receive one anyway. But the doctor being a volunteer contradicts that.
Here's an explanation for what MenACWY is.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mening/index.html
This is a problem. A good number of people I've spoken to have heard about this (mainly from biased sources, because unbiased ones either refuse to cover it or they can't cover it due to the secrecy) and are now very skeptical of this vaccine. The secrecy surrounding the incident does not help this issue, as people are deciding - since they can't choose the vaccine they want to get - to abstain from getting vaccinated at all! What in the world is the research team doing? Do they not understand human psychology and the Streisand effect? They're making people more afraid, even my own dad has spoken to me about this. I'm trying my best to learn about vaccines and to inform people, but these kinds of things make it so they don't even want to listen. And to be honest, even I'm becoming skeptical of AstraZeneca at this point.
If any of you can help find out more about this, I'd greatly appreciate it. Seeing that a very large percentage of people in many countries reject vaccines, I'm trying my best to dispel myths and baseless worries from as many people as possible (by trying to counter anti-vaxxer propaganda so people will get to hear factual reporting that can sway their mind back to being pro-vaxx. I consider this a proven method, I've convinced several of my colleagues to get vaccinated who were previously skeptical or undecided). The AstraZeneca case is making this task exceedingly difficult.
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On December 31 2020 01:54 warding wrote:Is anyone else becoming increasingly irritated with the European Medicines Agency? The UK has bought a total of 357 million doses of vaccines, for a population of 66 million. With the Astrazeneca approval, they're now ready to give 150 million doses as soon as they're delivered - and given that they approve everything earlier it's likely they'll get their orders sooner. The US has a 100M+100M Pfizer order, on top of a 100M+100M Moderna order and a 300M Astrazeneca order. Meanwhile, the EU initially only bought 200 million doses from Pfizer, instead of a proposed 500M, because they were too expensive. At 12€ a shot, that means we didn't want to spend 3.6B for one of the leading vaccines to stop a virus causing hundreds of billions in damages every week that goes by. So we recently bought 100M more, which I suppose is now at the back of the line for delivery. As for Astrazeneca, this is what the EU regulator said yesterday: Show nested quote +“Not even enough to warrant a conditional marketing licence”, he said. “We need additional data about the quality of the vaccine. And after that, the company has to formally apply.”
This made it “improbable” that an approval could already be granted next month[January], Wathion said. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-astrazeneca/astrazeneca-vaccine-not-ready-for-quick-european-approval-watchdog-official-says-idUSKBN2930XCWe're taking excessive caution and seemingly ignoring a simple cost-benefit analysis in all of this. Other developed nations seem to be dealing with this more intelligently. We even have the advantage over the US of having more centralized health systems that surely can do a better job of getting the vaccines to people. Meanwhile, Israel is going to reach 10% of the population vaccinated by the end of this week (!!!). https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
Yes I don't understand at all. Especially the part about the vaccines being expensive while they're €12 a shot lol. I'd easily pay 10 times that if they'd vaccinate me. I'm even more angry at my own government though. We're the only nation in the EU which didn't even start vaccinating yet. Our government response to covid19 has been disastrous.
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On December 31 2020 15:38 Magic Powers wrote:A few days ago I was told about the meningitis vaccine incident that resulted in a death in the AstraZeneca trial, but I can't find a single unbiased source (news or study) covering that incident and explaining what exactly happened. Biased sources claim that it's ethically questionable to give meningitis shots to people in a phase 3 trial, while (seemingly) unbiased sources don't even attempt to explain the reasoning (which is equally frustrating) or the cause of death and simply conclude with saying that the AstraZeneca vaccine is considered safe (which is not the question, but would become its own question if there was indeed an ethical misstep with the meningitis shot), simply because the death occured in (one of?) the control group(s). "A source familiar with the matter told Reuters the trial would have been suspended if the volunteer who died had received the COVID-19 vaccine, suggesting the person was part of the control group that was given a meningitis jab." So this says the person who died was not given a placebo, but Meningococcal Vaccination (see link from CDC below). https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brazil-vaccine-idUSKBN2762MO"The patient was identified as Joao Pedro Feitosa, a 28-year-old doctor in Rio de Janeiro who had been on the frontlines of the COVID-19 pandemic, Brazilian outlet O Globo reported. The outlet reported that the volunteer had been given a placebo and not the trial vaccine, citing unnamed sources. AstraZeneca declined to comment on the case, citing medical confidentiality." This contradicts reuters' report, saying he was given a placebo. It also states that he was a 28 y/o doctor working at the frontlines. Was he given a meningitis shot as standard procedure for his job? https://nypost.com/2020/10/21/volunteer-in-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-trial-dies-in-brazil/This of course could explain why biased sources reported that people were given meningitis shots "so it wouldn't raise suspicion" among them. If a doctor receives a placebo, he/she would be among the group of people with sufficient expertise to suspect that he/she may've been given a placebo. Or it could simply mean that meningitis shots are standard procedure for frontline doctors in that area, and he was due to receive one anyway. But the doctor being a volunteer contradicts that. Here's an explanation for what MenACWY is. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mening/index.htmlThis is a problem. A good number of people I've spoken to have heard about this (mainly from biased sources, because unbiased ones either refuse to cover it or they can't cover it due to the secrecy) and are now very skeptical of this vaccine. The secrecy surrounding the incident does not help this issue, as people are deciding - since they can't choose the vaccine they want to get - to abstain from getting vaccinated at all! What in the world is the research team doing? Do they not understand human psychology and the Streisand effect? They're making people more afraid, even my own dad has spoken to me about this. I'm trying my best to learn about vaccines and to inform people, but these kinds of things make it so they don't even want to listen. And to be honest, even I'm becoming skeptical of AstraZeneca at this point. If any of you can help find out more about this, I'd greatly appreciate it. Seeing that a very large percentage of people in many countries reject vaccines, I'm trying my best to dispel myths and baseless worries from as many people as possible (by trying to counter anti-vaxxer propaganda so people will get to hear factual reporting that can sway their mind back to being pro-vaxx. I consider this a proven method, I've convinced several of my colleagues to get vaccinated who were previously skeptical or undecided). The AstraZeneca case is making this task exceedingly difficult.
I'm not sure what kind of information you're looking for but I just spent 15 minutes googling this to help you.
Reportedly the 28-year-old doctor died of complications from COVID-19
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-vaccine-astrazeneca-trial-death-brazil-2020-10
AstraZeneca doesn't make it a secret that they used a meningitis vaccine for the control group. It's clearly stated in their press release on the results of their COVID-19 trials
https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2020/azd1222hlr.html
"Meningitis shot" and "placebo" are used interchangeably by news sources. It's not contradiction, it's just lazy/sloppy journalism.
Also there are many sources that explain the reasoning behind using the meningitis vaccine instead of saline: vaccines tend to give you a sore arm for a day or 2. If saline were used then all the people that still had a sore arm after a few hours would know they received the vaccine and not the placebo.
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On December 31 2020 15:40 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2020 01:54 warding wrote:Is anyone else becoming increasingly irritated with the European Medicines Agency? The UK has bought a total of 357 million doses of vaccines, for a population of 66 million. With the Astrazeneca approval, they're now ready to give 150 million doses as soon as they're delivered - and given that they approve everything earlier it's likely they'll get their orders sooner. The US has a 100M+100M Pfizer order, on top of a 100M+100M Moderna order and a 300M Astrazeneca order. Meanwhile, the EU initially only bought 200 million doses from Pfizer, instead of a proposed 500M, because they were too expensive. At 12€ a shot, that means we didn't want to spend 3.6B for one of the leading vaccines to stop a virus causing hundreds of billions in damages every week that goes by. So we recently bought 100M more, which I suppose is now at the back of the line for delivery. As for Astrazeneca, this is what the EU regulator said yesterday: “Not even enough to warrant a conditional marketing licence”, he said. “We need additional data about the quality of the vaccine. And after that, the company has to formally apply.”
This made it “improbable” that an approval could already be granted next month[January], Wathion said. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-astrazeneca/astrazeneca-vaccine-not-ready-for-quick-european-approval-watchdog-official-says-idUSKBN2930XCWe're taking excessive caution and seemingly ignoring a simple cost-benefit analysis in all of this. Other developed nations seem to be dealing with this more intelligently. We even have the advantage over the US of having more centralized health systems that surely can do a better job of getting the vaccines to people. Meanwhile, Israel is going to reach 10% of the population vaccinated by the end of this week (!!!). https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations Yes I don't understand at all. Especially the part about the vaccines being expensive while they're €12 a shot lol. I'd easily pay 10 times that if they'd vaccinate me. I'm even more angry at my own government though. We're the only nation in the EU which didn't even start vaccinating yet. Our government response to covid19 has been disastrous.
Honestly, if there was a daily auction for a spot in line for vaccines, I'd probably be willing throw a months pay at it. Don't have an exact value, but I'm not hurting since I've been employed the whole time, and the mental relief from knowing that I won't randomly pick it up at the supermarket or whatever would be worth the price.
Governments, especially in richer countries balking at paying even $24 per citizen always confused me, and more so even for something like this. I pay tens of thousands of dollars in tax money already, just tack it on, make the investment and we'll all be better off. At the start we didn't even know what vaccines would work, so we had put a few hundred million into each one.
If you rolled out a vaccination program faster, ensured the manufacturers had extra capacity for whatever supplies they needed, extra equipment for another production line etc. so from day 1 of approval you could put hundreds of thousands or even millions of doses into people, and end all restrictions just a single month earlier, you've already recouped the initial investment.
Every person who gets a Covid test is several dollars, every person who has a hospital stay is thousands, and ICU is tens of thousands, not to mention long term costs. Cheaping out just doesn't make any sense.
The moment a candidate was looking promising, really shouldn't have been any reason that we don't just pay the companies to start preparing for mass production, or even starting mass production and buying space to store it. At worst, it gets thrown out, at best it could be a month or two of extra production. Especially since with proper allocation(not politicians), the first 5-10% vaccinated have a much more dramatic effect.
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I just hope to nab a vaccine before my rescheduled honeymoon in October, but I got dat trip insurance so come what may, I certainly don't need a vaccine the way millions of others do.
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the info you provided in your original post is incomplete at best and almost meaningless at worst. In general, stats are getting misused and abused to the point of hilarity over the past six months.
you do realize how flawed and outdated public health ontario's data collection methods are right? fax machines? LOL.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/archaic-paper-records-submitted-by-fax-hold-up-real-time-covid-19-data-1.4935247
i've made so much money off of their errors its sad and funny at the same time. you do a lot of googling about ontario and provide little context. its clear you've never lived in ontario. you did this with the nurses thing earlier in this thread... with bob rae in another thread..etc etc.
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On December 31 2020 16:50 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2020 15:38 Magic Powers wrote:A few days ago I was told about the meningitis vaccine incident that resulted in a death in the AstraZeneca trial, but I can't find a single unbiased source (news or study) covering that incident and explaining what exactly happened. Biased sources claim that it's ethically questionable to give meningitis shots to people in a phase 3 trial, while (seemingly) unbiased sources don't even attempt to explain the reasoning (which is equally frustrating) or the cause of death and simply conclude with saying that the AstraZeneca vaccine is considered safe (which is not the question, but would become its own question if there was indeed an ethical misstep with the meningitis shot), simply because the death occured in (one of?) the control group(s). "A source familiar with the matter told Reuters the trial would have been suspended if the volunteer who died had received the COVID-19 vaccine, suggesting the person was part of the control group that was given a meningitis jab." So this says the person who died was not given a placebo, but Meningococcal Vaccination (see link from CDC below). https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-brazil-vaccine-idUSKBN2762MO"The patient was identified as Joao Pedro Feitosa, a 28-year-old doctor in Rio de Janeiro who had been on the frontlines of the COVID-19 pandemic, Brazilian outlet O Globo reported. The outlet reported that the volunteer had been given a placebo and not the trial vaccine, citing unnamed sources. AstraZeneca declined to comment on the case, citing medical confidentiality." This contradicts reuters' report, saying he was given a placebo. It also states that he was a 28 y/o doctor working at the frontlines. Was he given a meningitis shot as standard procedure for his job? https://nypost.com/2020/10/21/volunteer-in-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-trial-dies-in-brazil/This of course could explain why biased sources reported that people were given meningitis shots "so it wouldn't raise suspicion" among them. If a doctor receives a placebo, he/she would be among the group of people with sufficient expertise to suspect that he/she may've been given a placebo. Or it could simply mean that meningitis shots are standard procedure for frontline doctors in that area, and he was due to receive one anyway. But the doctor being a volunteer contradicts that. Here's an explanation for what MenACWY is. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mening/index.htmlThis is a problem. A good number of people I've spoken to have heard about this (mainly from biased sources, because unbiased ones either refuse to cover it or they can't cover it due to the secrecy) and are now very skeptical of this vaccine. The secrecy surrounding the incident does not help this issue, as people are deciding - since they can't choose the vaccine they want to get - to abstain from getting vaccinated at all! What in the world is the research team doing? Do they not understand human psychology and the Streisand effect? They're making people more afraid, even my own dad has spoken to me about this. I'm trying my best to learn about vaccines and to inform people, but these kinds of things make it so they don't even want to listen. And to be honest, even I'm becoming skeptical of AstraZeneca at this point. If any of you can help find out more about this, I'd greatly appreciate it. Seeing that a very large percentage of people in many countries reject vaccines, I'm trying my best to dispel myths and baseless worries from as many people as possible (by trying to counter anti-vaxxer propaganda so people will get to hear factual reporting that can sway their mind back to being pro-vaxx. I consider this a proven method, I've convinced several of my colleagues to get vaccinated who were previously skeptical or undecided). The AstraZeneca case is making this task exceedingly difficult. I'm not sure what kind of information you're looking for but I just spent 15 minutes googling this to help you. Reportedly the 28-year-old doctor died of complications from COVID-19 https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-vaccine-astrazeneca-trial-death-brazil-2020-10AstraZeneca doesn't make it a secret that they used a meningitis vaccine for the control group. It's clearly stated in their press release on the results of their COVID-19 trials https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2020/azd1222hlr.html"Meningitis shot" and "placebo" are used interchangeably by news sources. It's not contradiction, it's just lazy/sloppy journalism. Also there are many sources that explain the reasoning behind using the meningitis vaccine instead of saline: vaccines tend to give you a sore arm for a day or 2. If saline were used then all the people that still had a sore arm after a few hours would know they received the vaccine and not the placebo.
Thanks a lot, this solves it!
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Local hospital shot down a wing since the staff got infected. What a way to start 2021. 
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My country Peru i think it's gonna be the last of south america to receive a vaccine. Other countries have contracts signed or have even begun with vaccination, while on Peru we have nothing assured yet, and the only thing the authorities say its "be patient" I envy you guys.
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On January 02 2021 06:09 derty555 wrote:My country Peru i think it's gonna be the last of south america to receive a vaccine. Other countries have contracts signed or have even begun with vaccination, while on Peru we have nothing assured yet, and the only thing the authorities say its "be patient" I envy you guys.
Don't worry, Poland will give them up for you. They don't want them.
Link: https://www.dw.com/en/anti-vaccine-sentiment-rife-in-poland/a-56100878
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On January 02 2021 06:09 derty555 wrote:My country Peru i think it's gonna be the last of south america to receive a vaccine. Other countries have contracts signed or have even begun with vaccination, while on Peru we have nothing assured yet, and the only thing the authorities say its "be patient" I envy you guys.
For Canada at least, once everybody has doses, we're donating the remainder to other countries. I don't know when that will happen, but hopefully by the end of the year(or earlier), we'll be done and start vaccinating other countries.
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I guess we know now why deaths are so high in some countries. 26 deaths in a retirement home that could've perhaps been prevented (I say perhaps because it's not proven that the Santa guy infected people). Both he and the nurses behaved completely irresponsibly. Why are people collectively (not just individuals) breaking social distancing rules towards the elderly inside care facilities without doing tests first?
https://www.dw.com/en/covid-kills-26-in-belgian-care-home-after-santa-claus-visit/a-56106434
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EPT
