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On March 14 2020 05:17 Kipsate wrote:
I am not sure if my country feels like they have some innate weird ass belief that we are superior to other countries, our measures so far arent drastic enough I feel, schools are still open basically, the argument being that if they close then important medical personel have to take care for kids.
Thats cool but uhm ive seen primary/high school kids and their hygienne.....ehhh.
We should learn more from South Korea, Japan and several Eastern European countries I feel.
Either that or my country is run by geniusus who can balance the economy and the pandemic perfectly ( lol, doubtful).
The head of the national health council of Sweden gave a press conference today and I thought he had some good arguments for not closing schools (even though, to be fair, he has been heavily criticized for not taking strong enough measures in time). He basically said that:
1 Children don't really spread the disease that much so schools are still OK - unless it is a very badly struck region and in that case everyone should be isolated.
2 Forcing parents to be home with their children would paralyze the healthcare system.
3 A lot of people would be forced to have grand parents take care of the children, which would put the most vulnerable people at risk.
He went so far as to say, or at least hint, that in the countries where the schools were closing now, it is the politicians and not the scientists who are calling the shots.
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Got a call from my sister who works at State Department today. Apparently her whole office is on tele-work for a while, but that’s basically PTO for her because most of her job is arranging meetings between our government and others’; nobody’s doing meetings in Geneva or anything right now.
She called partly because I’m the only sibling who lives in town with our parents and talks to them regularly, and she wants to make sure they’re taking proper precautions. In absence of productive work to do, she’s apparently been reading up on quarantine protocols around the globe. Her analysis (grain of salt: she’s not a scientist and has no epidemiology or public health expertise): she thinks Taiwan got scared enough by SARS that they already had protocols in place, and were able to contain it. South Korea almost managed it if it weren’t for “patient 31” (don’t know what she was referring to). As for the US, she thinks we should be looking at Italy’s quarantine protocols and applying them ASAP; Italy probably waited too long, but we can probably save a lot of lives if we start now.
By her assessment (and while she has no epidemiology expertise, she’s got plenty with the inner workings of federal bureaucracies), nobody in the government knows what the hell to do right now. We don’t have protocols, and we should have spent the last few months having meetings to establish some, but we didn’t. She’s encouraged by the Mormon church cancelling all Sunday meetings going forward (my parents are Mormon, so that’s a special consideration for us), and wants me to tell them to clean the whole house with real disinfectants, and then basically don’t leave - set up grocery delivery if possible, and order groceries that they can clean off with soap and water before eating (i.e. tomatoes or apples, but maybe no salad greens). My mom doesn’t work, and my dad is able to work from home (I think), so they can probably more or less cut off contact with the outside world for a few weeks or months. I need to keep working, so I’ll probably just not visit them for a while. Her words were something like “we need to create our own pandemic response protocols now, and the government can figure out what they’re gonna apply next time around.”
I don’t know whether that’s an overreaction, but it’s also probably the closest thing to federal guidance I’m gonna get. I’m not sure what to do about my wife. She’s got an autoimmune disorder and has plasmapheresis every three weeks, which apparently makes her somewhat immunosuppressed. She’s been on this treatment for the last few years and it hasn’t been a big issue, but just recently her IgG has been low on blood tests and she’s gotten sick twice this year (flu and cold, I believe).
I don’t know whether to tell her I think she should cancel basically everything or not. She does some group therapy stuff throughout the week that really helps her, and if she cancelled everything I don’t know how long it would be for. Me working is probably as big a risk to her as any of that, but I can’t exactly quit my job right now. She wants to keep going to all of her normal commitments and just wear a face mask (if I can get ahold of any, at least). In the end it’s up to her, obviously, but I can’t help but think if she did get it, I’d be furious at myself for not trying to make her be more careful.
This post wound up longer than I expected, sorry for that.
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On March 14 2020 07:30 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2020 05:17 Kipsate wrote:
I am not sure if my country feels like they have some innate weird ass belief that we are superior to other countries, our measures so far arent drastic enough I feel, schools are still open basically, the argument being that if they close then important medical personel have to take care for kids.
Thats cool but uhm ive seen primary/high school kids and their hygienne.....ehhh.
We should learn more from South Korea, Japan and several Eastern European countries I feel.
Either that or my country is run by geniusus who can balance the economy and the pandemic perfectly ( lol, doubtful). The head of the national health council of Sweden gave a press conference today and I thought he had some good arguments for not closing schools (even though, to be fair, he has been heavily criticized for not taking strong enough measures in time). He basically said that: 1 Children don't really spread the disease that much so schools are still OK - unless it is a very badly struck region and in that case everyone should be isolated. 2 Forcing parents to be home with their children would paralyze the healthcare system. 3 A lot of people would be forced to have grand parents take care of the children, which would put the most vulnerable people at risk. He went so far as to say, or at least hint, that in the countries where the schools were closing now, it is the politicians and not the scientists who are calling the shots.
#1 doesn't make sense to me. Why wouldn't children carry the virus? Children can survive the virus without significant problems, sure, but I don't see why they can't infect 65+ years old people who are most vulnerable. Also, old people work in schools usually (teachers, maybe guards too depending on your country). Then, children go home and maybe meet the elderly, so.. I don't see how they're part of any solution.
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On March 14 2020 07:21 SC-Shield wrote:
I don't know, I think people under 65 years old overreact as if this is the Spanish flu. Sure, old people or those with weaker immune system should be protected but come on, what's happening in supermarkets is madness. Lots of shelves are empty in my country and there is national emergency until 29 March. Just crazy. The issue isn't the deadliness under ideal care conditions. Its when the healthcare system gets completely overwhelmed and there is no longer enough care to go around, which causes deaths to spike
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37057 Posts
Can someone please, for the love of God, explain why everyone, everywhere, is going out to buy fucktons of toilet paper? I just don’t get it... I went to the store today and they were all sold out. What in the world does overstocking on toilet paper accomplish against the coronavirus?
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At least a few people are gonna do dissertations on the toilet paper buying response to Covid-19, no doubt about it.
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American here attending college, my school had their spring break this coming week (lucky timing!). All of the public colleges officially linked to the state began transitioning to online classes Wednesday, although my language class was adamant on having a midterm today in person. At the end of spring break (23rd of March), all classes will have been moved online. Interestingly, and beneficially to me, students in dorms have the option of returning to campus, even as the classes are online. The state is up to nearly 50 confirmed, which means it's probably spread far beyond that and will be trouble in the coming months. In the spoilers below, I'll share more.
First spoiler is the broader reaction that most people probably expect, and the second one is something much more light-hearted.
+ Show Spoiler +Since the family situation isn't the most wonderful, I'll be heading back to campus, as well as many others and nearly all of the kids who rented apartments. Gatherings of 50+ people are banned, but all campus buildings are open, from residence and dining halls to pure classroom spaces.
From a personal welfare standpoint, dorms will provide for me and I'm well-insulated from the scramble for resources that had been going on; I have the privilege to choose to ignore almost all effects of the virus on my life. The bands/orchestras can't continue class at all from an online format, but my core classes will be fine as long as my 70-year-old professor figures out online instruction.
My friends and family aren't nearly as fortunate. My first roommate has contracted pneumonia (no way he's going to get tested in this country, and it could be the virus), my mother is high risk due to respiratory problems and being 60+, and my girlfriend's extended family lives in Wuhan and haven't been able to leave the house for months now. Hoping they'll all be safe in the end.
Additionally, nearly all online communities I'm on besides this place and a server I own have become filled with sinophobic content up until this week, where the jokes, memes, and conversations took a sharp turn from WWII-era levels of racism towards coping with the sadness of it hitting the West. Despite not being Chinese myself, I've got a bitter sense of schadenfreude when watching all the people that laughed as I actively railed against content celebrating/making fun of the deaths in China suddenly get just as touchy as I was a month ago when new jokes target people that look like them.
+ Show Spoiler +Not all is doom and gloom, though. I thought I'd share something that might bring a smile to your faces in a time when smiles are few and far between. My college club is actually uniquely poised to remain mostly unaffected or even benefit due to all of the changes. As an esports club, staying in your home all day isn't nearly as hard  The incredibly high-tech classroom we use for our weekly meetings will be open, and every activity that was previously in the room has now been stopped except for us, so we've been given full control of the schedule. The room can only seat 20-25, so our "open gaming hours" where students can use the gaming PCs or bring their own rigs are approved. Yesterday's session saw about 2-3x the normal amount of people, so there's a real chance our club might expand in popularity. We're even planning to expand the hours and days of operation after break, from 4 hours total over 1 day to 12 over 2. We've always been militant about cleanliness and require everything to be wiped down anyway, so we're less worried than we should be about accelerating the spread of disease. And, even on top of this, one of our sponsors contacted us. Mountain Dew's had trucks distributing their new "Game Fuel" energy drinks to college esports clubs across the country, and on their way back, they asked if we wanted extra cases of the stuff since many colleges shut down without allowing kids to return to campus. They allowed us to ask for up to 100 cases, and we're college students, so we now have 1,200 cans of energy drinks.
The bad definitely outweighs the good, but at least there's a bright side at all.
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28095 Posts
I feel like one of those large packs from Costco lasts for months (three people in my household atm). People are buying up multiple packs like they're planning on staying inside for years.
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United States43402 Posts
On March 14 2020 08:11 Seeker wrote:
Can someone please, for the love of God, explain why everyone, everywhere, is going out to buy fucktons of toilet paper? I just don’t get it... I went to the store today and they were all sold out. What in the world does overstocking on toilet paper accomplish against the coronavirus?
It’s rational in a game theory way. If other people are going to take so much that there is a shortage next week then it makes sense to go out and buy a week’s supply now. The good of the individual is not the good of the group.
It’s an interesting case study.
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Canada8989 Posts
On March 14 2020 08:11 Seeker wrote:
Can someone please, for the love of God, explain why everyone, everywhere, is going out to buy fucktons of toilet paper? I just don’t get it... I went to the store today and they were all sold out. What in the world does overstocking on toilet paper accomplish against the coronavirus?
I'm assume there something in people mind that goes virus-medicament-bathroom-...Toilet paper? I don't know it's a mystery to me that pretty much the most easily replaceable thing and among the lest necessary thing in a supermarket is the one thing getting swamp.
Also in celebration of the time we lived in I reread Les Pestiférés by Marcel Pagnol, a short story about a group of Marseilles citizen trying to survive a plague epidemic, I recommend it to everyone who isn't to susceptible to panicking, it's also a reminder that thing ain't so bad, although it make for a solid case about buying all of the toilet paper.
You probably can fin a english PDF of Kindle version of it only fairly easy too since you can't go to bookstore anymore
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On March 14 2020 08:17 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2020 08:11 Seeker wrote:
Can someone please, for the love of God, explain why everyone, everywhere, is going out to buy fucktons of toilet paper? I just don’t get it... I went to the store today and they were all sold out. What in the world does overstocking on toilet paper accomplish against the coronavirus? It’s rational in a game theory way. If other people are going to take so much that there is a shortage next week then it makes sense to go out and buy a week’s supply now. The good of the individual is not the good of the group. It’s an interesting case study.
I literally explained why last page. It's the comment before the last one.
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Canada8989 Posts
On March 14 2020 08:22 SC-Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2020 08:17 KwarK wrote:On March 14 2020 08:11 Seeker wrote:
Can someone please, for the love of God, explain why everyone, everywhere, is going out to buy fucktons of toilet paper? I just don’t get it... I went to the store today and they were all sold out. What in the world does overstocking on toilet paper accomplish against the coronavirus? It’s rational in a game theory way. If other people are going to take so much that there is a shortage next week then it makes sense to go out and buy a week’s supply now. The good of the individual is not the good of the group. It’s an interesting case study. I literally explained why last page. It's the comment before the last one.
I mean just paper work too doesn't it? You just need to put a bit of water on it. A rag, or some torn up old clothes would work just as well. (well better actually, that's what I always use when I clean stuff).
Altought I guess that's a solid explaination
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On March 14 2020 08:11 Seeker wrote:
Can someone please, for the love of God, explain why everyone, everywhere, is going out to buy fucktons of toilet paper? I just don’t get it... I went to the store today and they were all sold out. What in the world does overstocking on toilet paper accomplish against the coronavirus?
The items don't have to be relevant to the coronavirus, it goes something like this
Step 1: small % of people panic about the virus and buy too many general supplies
Step 2: media show a few empty shelves of certain types of items and exaggerate how many people are doing this
Step 3: now a much larger % of people go out of their way to hoard said items due to a fear of shortages
Step 4: their fear of shortages has actually depleted the stock of said items in the short term
I reckon it only takes an initial few thousand people to snowball something like this
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The toilet paper is for eating when food runs out. Like how they would chew leather in told days. Scented ones are more desirable for better flavor and the cardboard cylinder can be used like tortilla wrap.
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the toilet paper mystery will definitely spawn a number of Masters theses and dissertations
and an endless supply of memes, of course
I imagine the day will come when we will have to explain to our children why so many dad jokes have some weird toilet paper reference in them, literally everywhere on the planet
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On March 14 2020 08:15 Howie_Dewitt wrote:American here attending college, my school had their spring break this coming week (lucky timing!). All of the public colleges officially linked to the state began transitioning to online classes Wednesday, although my language class was adamant on having a midterm today in person. At the end of spring break (23rd of March), all classes will have been moved online. Interestingly, and beneficially to me, students in dorms have the option of returning to campus, even as the classes are online. The state is up to nearly 50 confirmed, which means it's probably spread far beyond that and will be trouble in the coming months. In the spoilers below, I'll share more. First spoiler is the broader reaction that most people probably expect, and the second one is something much more light-hearted. + Show Spoiler +Since the family situation isn't the most wonderful, I'll be heading back to campus, as well as many others and nearly all of the kids who rented apartments. Gatherings of 50+ people are banned, but all campus buildings are open, from residence and dining halls to pure classroom spaces.
From a personal welfare standpoint, dorms will provide for me and I'm well-insulated from the scramble for resources that had been going on; I have the privilege to choose to ignore almost all effects of the virus on my life. The bands/orchestras can't continue class at all from an online format, but my core classes will be fine as long as my 70-year-old professor figures out online instruction.
My friends and family aren't nearly as fortunate. My first roommate has contracted pneumonia (no way he's going to get tested in this country, and it could be the virus), my mother is high risk due to respiratory problems and being 60+, and my girlfriend's extended family lives in Wuhan and haven't been able to leave the house for months now. Hoping they'll all be safe in the end.
Additionally, nearly all online communities I'm on besides this place and a server I own have become filled with sinophobic content up until this week, where the jokes, memes, and conversations took a sharp turn from WWII-era levels of racism towards coping with the sadness of it hitting the West. Despite not being Chinese myself, I've got a bitter sense of schadenfreude when watching all the people that laughed as I actively railed against content celebrating/making fun of the deaths in China suddenly get just as touchy as I was a month ago when new jokes target people that look like them. Not all is doom and gloom, though. I thought I'd share something that might bring a smile to your faces in a time when smiles are few and far between. My college club is actually uniquely poised to remain mostly unaffected or even benefit due to all of the changes. As an esports club, staying in your home all day isn't nearly as hard The incredibly high-tech classroom we use for our weekly meetings will be open, and every activity that was previously in the room has now been stopped except for us, so we've been given full control of the schedule. The room can only seat 20-25, so our "open gaming hours" where students can use the gaming PCs or bring their own rigs are approved. Yesterday's session saw about 2-3x the normal amount of people, so there's a real chance our club might expand in popularity. We're even planning to expand the hours and days of operation after break, from 4 hours total over 1 day to 12 over 2. We've always been militant about cleanliness and require everything to be wiped down anyway, so we're less worried than we should be about accelerating the spread of disease. And, even on top of this, one of our sponsors contacted us. Mountain Dew's had trucks distributing their new "Game Fuel" energy drinks to college esports clubs across the country, and on their way back, they asked if we wanted extra cases of the stuff since many colleges shut down without allowing kids to return to campus. They allowed us to ask for up to 100 cases, and we're college students, so we now have 1,200 cans of energy drinks. The bad definitely outweighs the good, but at least there's a bright side at all.
I wish more schools followed the plan yours did, I know of more than a few college students that are scrambling for housing after being kicked off a shutdown campus.
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Zurich15358 Posts
I made it back over the border minutes after Austria announced quarantine for Tyrol. German health ministry now asks any returnee from Austria to self-quarantine for 2 weeks.
Time to work on that MMR I guess!
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On March 14 2020 08:11 Seeker wrote:
Can someone please, for the love of God, explain why everyone, everywhere, is going out to buy fucktons of toilet paper? I just don’t get it... I went to the store today and they were all sold out. What in the world does overstocking on toilet paper accomplish against the coronavirus?
Running out of toilet paper is GG. If people are panic buying toilet paper and the US eventually looks like Italy, it makes sense to stock up in response to other people stocking up. If no one panic-bought TP, no issue. But at this point I think its entirely valid to make sure you have enough.
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On March 14 2020 08:17 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2020 08:11 Seeker wrote:
Can someone please, for the love of God, explain why everyone, everywhere, is going out to buy fucktons of toilet paper? I just don’t get it... I went to the store today and they were all sold out. What in the world does overstocking on toilet paper accomplish against the coronavirus? It’s rational in a game theory way. If other people are going to take so much that there is a shortage next week then it makes sense to go out and buy a week’s supply now. The good of the individual is not the good of the group. It’s an interesting case study.
I dunno I'd rather be irrational at game theory than looking like a freaked out prepper carrying tons of toilet paper out of the supermarket, jesus people need to calm down, what happened to keep calm and carry on. I don't even want to know what is going to happen if we're getting a WW1 + Spanish flu situation in the internet age if everyone's already freaking out over this
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the TP thing is so dumb. Supply chains exist, that stuff will be there in a week or two still
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EPT
