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It's literally a case of do as I say, not as I do.
Thanksgiving's this week, and the numbers are as bad as they've ever been. There's going to be millions of family dinners and visits. Every visit is a chance to spread it, and there's going to be tens of thousands of families planning funerals at Christmas as a result of this. I'm just glad that the border continues to be closed to the USA, it's a brutal situation down there.
AAA, formerly known as the American Automobile Association, estimates that 50 million people will travel over the “Thanksgiving holiday travel period,” a five-day stretch from Wednesday, Nov. 25 to Sunday, Nov. 29, down from 55 million last year
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/covid-19-spread-when-5-million-people-left-wuhan-for-chinese-new-year-yet-50-million-americans-will-still-travel-for-thanksgiving/ar-BB1b9Yi6
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On November 22 2020 07:24 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2020 20:59 Danglars wrote:On November 21 2020 20:40 Artisreal wrote:
You're referring to hypocrisy or that the measures are not based on data? Still unclear what you re criticising. The hypocrisy of public officials treating their mandates unseriously when it comes to their private lives hits both, essentially. But yes, my post that spawned some replies focused on the hypocrisy and I’d direct your attention there instead of reply chains if you wish to make constructive comments. It’s got the juicy, specific citations and what I think their consequences will be for my state. People advocating for policy not following policy because they are shitbags doesn't indicate the policy is bad. It only indicates the people are bad. No one is defending Newsom and him not following his own policy is not evidence his policy is bad.
People advocating for policy not following policy because they are shitbags doesn't indicate the policy is bad. Yeah, but please decide for yourself what works, because they aren't the ones to tell you which policies are good.
I'd be more impressed if they were scared shitless that somebody were to photograph "public health experts" eating meals with a large party ... since that would mean a greater chance the state sees a more brutal second wave.
Seriously, spend thanksgivings with your family and tell grandma to call in for the big meal instead of showing. Nine months of lockdown with this degree of separation has hurt everybody. Make up your own mind and read the news to calibrate your response.
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On November 22 2020 10:17 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 07:24 Mohdoo wrote:On November 21 2020 20:59 Danglars wrote:On November 21 2020 20:40 Artisreal wrote:
You're referring to hypocrisy or that the measures are not based on data? Still unclear what you re criticising. The hypocrisy of public officials treating their mandates unseriously when it comes to their private lives hits both, essentially. But yes, my post that spawned some replies focused on the hypocrisy and I’d direct your attention there instead of reply chains if you wish to make constructive comments. It’s got the juicy, specific citations and what I think their consequences will be for my state. People advocating for policy not following policy because they are shitbags doesn't indicate the policy is bad. It only indicates the people are bad. No one is defending Newsom and him not following his own policy is not evidence his policy is bad. People advocating for policy not following policy because they are shitbags doesn't indicate the policy is bad. Yeah, but please decide for yourself what works, because they aren't the ones to tell you which policies are good. I'd be more impressed if they were scared shitless that somebody were to photograph "public health experts" eating meals with a large party ... since that would mean a greater chance the state sees a more brutal second wave. Seriously, spend thanksgivings with your family and tell grandma to call in for the big meal instead of showing. Nine months of lockdown with this degree of separation has hurt everybody. Make up your own mind and read the news to calibrate your response.
Why would someone decide for themselves rather than listen to experts? You haven’t indicated why someone should decide for themselves. Newsom isn’t an expert, but he tells people to do what experts say. Why are you saying to spend thanksgiving with family?
Grandma isn't the only one who can die. Covid is more intense as exposure dosage is increased. Spending the entire day with your parents, if they are 60+, could be game over, even if you aren't showing any symptoms. I could never forgive myself if I killed my parents on accident because of a holiday which will also exist next year. Also, I still see my parents, outside and with masks on. I still get emotional fulfillment, just not the ideal amount.
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On November 22 2020 10:22 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 10:17 Danglars wrote:On November 22 2020 07:24 Mohdoo wrote:On November 21 2020 20:59 Danglars wrote:On November 21 2020 20:40 Artisreal wrote:
You're referring to hypocrisy or that the measures are not based on data? Still unclear what you re criticising. The hypocrisy of public officials treating their mandates unseriously when it comes to their private lives hits both, essentially. But yes, my post that spawned some replies focused on the hypocrisy and I’d direct your attention there instead of reply chains if you wish to make constructive comments. It’s got the juicy, specific citations and what I think their consequences will be for my state. People advocating for policy not following policy because they are shitbags doesn't indicate the policy is bad. It only indicates the people are bad. No one is defending Newsom and him not following his own policy is not evidence his policy is bad. People advocating for policy not following policy because they are shitbags doesn't indicate the policy is bad. Yeah, but please decide for yourself what works, because they aren't the ones to tell you which policies are good. I'd be more impressed if they were scared shitless that somebody were to photograph "public health experts" eating meals with a large party ... since that would mean a greater chance the state sees a more brutal second wave. Seriously, spend thanksgivings with your family and tell grandma to call in for the big meal instead of showing. Nine months of lockdown with this degree of separation has hurt everybody. Make up your own mind and read the news to calibrate your response. Why would someone decide for themselves rather than listen to experts? You haven’t indicated why someone should decide for themselves. Newsom isn’t an expert, but he tells people to do what experts say. Why are you saying to spend thanksgiving with family? Grandma isn't the only one who can die. Covid is more intense as exposure dosage is increased. Spending the entire day with your parents, if they are 60+, could be game over, even if you aren't showing any symptoms. I could never forgive myself if I killed my parents on accident because of a holiday which will also exist next year. Also, I still see my parents, outside and with masks on. I still get emotional fulfillment, just not the ideal amount.
Grandma was the metaphor for older parents.
The experts were there, dining with Newsom. Did you see any statements afterwards? Did any other associations give a statement on the California Medical Association? Any? Yeah, the experts are currently known for excusing big protests and rallies, all the while crafting regulations for your family. (I'm not telling you what to do in this, to be clear. That's on you). Definitely quarantine if you've caught it and miss the celebration. Compare the word of your experts with their cited evidence and their record. Thanksgiving and Christmas are a great time to recover on mental health and prolonged isolation; another health issue, especially for groups at a low risk of severe COVID cases. You're just entirely discounting the effects of such a long period of restrictions, and reaching for an appeal to authority for groups that have largely lost public trust for good reason.
It's not just Pelosi and Schumer traveling after the CDC advisory on travels. It's not just the massive post-election rallies in DC, NYC that went totally ignored by public health authorities (and were attended by politicians and media). It's the message that thanksgiving and christmas are ridiculously restricted, and you can go see you families at some future date we won't know for some time yet ok maybe a long time further. Don't try to pretend I'm saying for 60+ to go traveling, or big second wave places traveling to low spread areas. It's the <10 ppl <3 households and <2 hours advice that ought to be examined for your personal family situation. If they can have a big party outside and dodge public health official ire, you can have a smaller party indoors and rest and recuperate.
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On November 22 2020 10:47 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 10:22 Mohdoo wrote:On November 22 2020 10:17 Danglars wrote:On November 22 2020 07:24 Mohdoo wrote:On November 21 2020 20:59 Danglars wrote:On November 21 2020 20:40 Artisreal wrote:
You're referring to hypocrisy or that the measures are not based on data? Still unclear what you re criticising. The hypocrisy of public officials treating their mandates unseriously when it comes to their private lives hits both, essentially. But yes, my post that spawned some replies focused on the hypocrisy and I’d direct your attention there instead of reply chains if you wish to make constructive comments. It’s got the juicy, specific citations and what I think their consequences will be for my state. People advocating for policy not following policy because they are shitbags doesn't indicate the policy is bad. It only indicates the people are bad. No one is defending Newsom and him not following his own policy is not evidence his policy is bad. People advocating for policy not following policy because they are shitbags doesn't indicate the policy is bad. Yeah, but please decide for yourself what works, because they aren't the ones to tell you which policies are good. I'd be more impressed if they were scared shitless that somebody were to photograph "public health experts" eating meals with a large party ... since that would mean a greater chance the state sees a more brutal second wave. Seriously, spend thanksgivings with your family and tell grandma to call in for the big meal instead of showing. Nine months of lockdown with this degree of separation has hurt everybody. Make up your own mind and read the news to calibrate your response. Why would someone decide for themselves rather than listen to experts? You haven’t indicated why someone should decide for themselves. Newsom isn’t an expert, but he tells people to do what experts say. Why are you saying to spend thanksgiving with family? Grandma isn't the only one who can die. Covid is more intense as exposure dosage is increased. Spending the entire day with your parents, if they are 60+, could be game over, even if you aren't showing any symptoms. I could never forgive myself if I killed my parents on accident because of a holiday which will also exist next year. Also, I still see my parents, outside and with masks on. I still get emotional fulfillment, just not the ideal amount. Grandma was the metaphor for older parents. The experts were there, dining with Newsom. Did you see any statements afterwards? Did any other associations give a statement on the California Medical Association? Any? Yeah, the experts are currently known for excusing big protests and rallies, all the while crafting regulations for your family. (I'm not telling you what to do in this, to be clear. That's on you). Definitely quarantine if you've caught it and miss the celebration. Compare the word of your experts with their cited evidence and their record. Thanksgiving and Christmas are a great time to recover on mental health and prolonged isolation; another health issue, especially for groups at a low risk of severe COVID cases. You're just entirely discounting the effects of such a long period of restrictions, and reaching for an appeal to authority for groups that have largely lost public trust for good reason. It's not just Pelosi and Schumer traveling after the CDC advisory on travels. It's not just the massive post-election rallies in DC, NYC that went totally ignored by public health authorities (and were attended by politicians and media). It's the message that thanksgiving and christmas are ridiculously restricted, and you can go see you families at some future date we won't know for some time yet ok maybe a long time further. Don't try to pretend I'm saying for 60+ to go traveling, or big second wave places traveling to low spread areas. It's the <10 ppl <3 households and <2 hours advice that ought to be examined for your personal family situation. If they can have a big party outside and dodge public health official ire, you can have a smaller party indoors and rest and recuperate.
Who are you defining as experts? Epidemiologists are not saying protests are fine. Virologists are not saying protests are fine You seem to be talking about figures of authority in government and policy, not scientific experts.
And no one is saying don’t see family. As I’ve said, I’ve seen my family a lot, outdoors, with masks on. This isn’t a matter of see no one or spend 3 hours inside together. There are other things you can do. It is important to deal with mental health, but it doesn’t mean you stop recognizing the fact that you and your family can die from covid. Are there things stopping you from talking to your family outside or doing things outside with them?
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A policy undermined by the obvious hypocrisy of "lockdowns for you, but none for me or for any of my well-connected friends with money and/or political power" is indeed a bad policy. Let's not defend hypocritical garbage like Newsom here.
Separate from the effectiveness of the policy, individuals should of course do what's best for them. Protect self and family from the plague is one of those; make sure to have enough money to survive because of a lack of government help is another. Even if that means working around the lack of good policy.
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Concerning the "staying in for nine months has harmed people's mental health" line of thinking when talking about missing the holidays, I'll say this:
Suck it up.
Yes, there are significant mental health tolls that can't be ignored and mental health services should be strengthened to support those in need. But you know who misses holidays, weddings, and other family gatherings every single year?
Healthcare workers. Military service members. Police and firefighters. Critically ill and immuno-compromised patients that can't afford the risk in a normal, pandemic-less world. Homeless people. People working jobs that require travel. People in prison. Millions of people per year.
I've missed the last four Thanksgivings + Christmases because of a combination of military service and being a healthcare professional. It sucks, but holidays aren't some special gift from God wherein we have an immutable right to attend them with extended family and the laws of the world pause so that we can enjoy these significant cultural moments.
You can survive missing one holiday season when it means choosing between that and fanning the flames of a pandemic that has killed two hundred and fifty thousand Americans in less than a year. Indoor family gatherings have been shown time and time again to directly contribute to significant COVID-19 spread. There is no good way to bring people from several households together to have a holiday gathering when it comes to the pandemic.
This is the worst short-term public health crisis that anyone alive has ever seen. Act responsibly and we'll be able to have the holidays next year.
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On November 22 2020 12:31 LegalLord wrote:
A policy undermined by the obvious hypocrisy of "lockdowns for you, but none for me or for any of my well-connected friends with money and/or political power" is indeed a bad policy. Let's not defend hypocritical garbage like Newsom here.
Separate from the effectiveness of the policy, individuals should of course do what's best for them. Protect self and family from the plague is one of those; make sure to have enough money to survive because of a lack of government help is another. Even if that means working around the lack of good policy.
Protect the vulnerable, comply with the low intrusive junk, and make a logical decision on the very intrusive stuff. I agree with that basis for behavior moving on towards vaccines.
On November 22 2020 13:25 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Concerning the "staying in for nine months has harmed people's mental health" line of thinking when talking about missing the holidays, I'll say this:
Suck it up.
Yes, there are significant mental health tolls that can't be ignored and mental health services should be strengthened to support those in need. But you know who misses holidays, weddings, and other family gatherings every single year?
Healthcare workers. Military service members. Police and firefighters. Critically ill and immuno-compromised patients that can't afford the risk in a normal, pandemic-less world. Homeless people. People working jobs that require travel. People in prison. Millions of people per year.
I've missed the last four Thanksgivings + Christmases because of a combination of military service and being a healthcare professional. It sucks, but holidays aren't some special gift from God wherein we have an immutable right to attend them with extended family and the laws of the world pause so that we can enjoy these significant cultural moments.
You can survive missing one holiday season when it means choosing between that and fanning the flames of a pandemic that has killed two hundred and fifty thousand Americans in less than a year. Indoor family gatherings have been shown time and time again to directly contribute to significant COVID-19 spread. There is no good way to bring people from several households together to have a holiday gathering when it comes to the pandemic.
This is the worst short-term public health crisis that anyone alive has ever seen. Act responsibly and we'll be able to have the holidays next year.
If only every American patterned their family lives according to the measures taken for the military and nurses. It ain’t for everybody, and I suspect you know it. Grandma and grandpa do “suck it up” in the sane part of necessary restrictions. Respiratory and immunocompromised too. Low risk people should not and ought not to cancel or severely limit normal family holidays. Neglecting, naturally, people that feel sick. We do not see eye to eye on this.
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On November 22 2020 14:35 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 12:31 LegalLord wrote:
A policy undermined by the obvious hypocrisy of "lockdowns for you, but none for me or for any of my well-connected friends with money and/or political power" is indeed a bad policy. Let's not defend hypocritical garbage like Newsom here.
Separate from the effectiveness of the policy, individuals should of course do what's best for them. Protect self and family from the plague is one of those; make sure to have enough money to survive because of a lack of government help is another. Even if that means working around the lack of good policy. Protect the vulnerable, comply with the low intrusive junk, and make a logical decision on the very intrusive stuff. I agree with that basis for behavior moving on towards vaccines. Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 13:25 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Concerning the "staying in for nine months has harmed people's mental health" line of thinking when talking about missing the holidays, I'll say this:
Suck it up.
Yes, there are significant mental health tolls that can't be ignored and mental health services should be strengthened to support those in need. But you know who misses holidays, weddings, and other family gatherings every single year?
Healthcare workers. Military service members. Police and firefighters. Critically ill and immuno-compromised patients that can't afford the risk in a normal, pandemic-less world. Homeless people. People working jobs that require travel. People in prison. Millions of people per year.
I've missed the last four Thanksgivings + Christmases because of a combination of military service and being a healthcare professional. It sucks, but holidays aren't some special gift from God wherein we have an immutable right to attend them with extended family and the laws of the world pause so that we can enjoy these significant cultural moments.
You can survive missing one holiday season when it means choosing between that and fanning the flames of a pandemic that has killed two hundred and fifty thousand Americans in less than a year. Indoor family gatherings have been shown time and time again to directly contribute to significant COVID-19 spread. There is no good way to bring people from several households together to have a holiday gathering when it comes to the pandemic.
This is the worst short-term public health crisis that anyone alive has ever seen. Act responsibly and we'll be able to have the holidays next year. If only every American patterned their family lives according to the measures taken for the military and nurses. It ain’t for everybody, and I suspect you know it. Grandma and grandpa do “suck it up” in the sane part of necessary restrictions. Respiratory and immunocompromised too. Low risk people should not and ought not to cancel or severely limit normal family holidays. Neglecting, naturally, people that feel sick. We do not see eye to eye on this.
Can you elaborate on the importance of family holidays and why the cost benefit risk analysis regarding covid means it is worthwhile? You’ve had so many thanksgivings at this point and you’ll have another next year. You can see family in so many other ways. Why is thanksgiving of such paramount importance to you?
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On November 22 2020 16:01 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 14:35 Danglars wrote:On November 22 2020 12:31 LegalLord wrote:
A policy undermined by the obvious hypocrisy of "lockdowns for you, but none for me or for any of my well-connected friends with money and/or political power" is indeed a bad policy. Let's not defend hypocritical garbage like Newsom here.
Separate from the effectiveness of the policy, individuals should of course do what's best for them. Protect self and family from the plague is one of those; make sure to have enough money to survive because of a lack of government help is another. Even if that means working around the lack of good policy. Protect the vulnerable, comply with the low intrusive junk, and make a logical decision on the very intrusive stuff. I agree with that basis for behavior moving on towards vaccines. On November 22 2020 13:25 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Concerning the "staying in for nine months has harmed people's mental health" line of thinking when talking about missing the holidays, I'll say this:
Suck it up.
Yes, there are significant mental health tolls that can't be ignored and mental health services should be strengthened to support those in need. But you know who misses holidays, weddings, and other family gatherings every single year?
Healthcare workers. Military service members. Police and firefighters. Critically ill and immuno-compromised patients that can't afford the risk in a normal, pandemic-less world. Homeless people. People working jobs that require travel. People in prison. Millions of people per year.
I've missed the last four Thanksgivings + Christmases because of a combination of military service and being a healthcare professional. It sucks, but holidays aren't some special gift from God wherein we have an immutable right to attend them with extended family and the laws of the world pause so that we can enjoy these significant cultural moments.
You can survive missing one holiday season when it means choosing between that and fanning the flames of a pandemic that has killed two hundred and fifty thousand Americans in less than a year. Indoor family gatherings have been shown time and time again to directly contribute to significant COVID-19 spread. There is no good way to bring people from several households together to have a holiday gathering when it comes to the pandemic.
This is the worst short-term public health crisis that anyone alive has ever seen. Act responsibly and we'll be able to have the holidays next year. If only every American patterned their family lives according to the measures taken for the military and nurses. It ain’t for everybody, and I suspect you know it. Grandma and grandpa do “suck it up” in the sane part of necessary restrictions. Respiratory and immunocompromised too. Low risk people should not and ought not to cancel or severely limit normal family holidays. Neglecting, naturally, people that feel sick. We do not see eye to eye on this. Can you elaborate on the importance of family holidays and why the cost benefit risk analysis regarding covid means it is worthwhile? You’ve had so many thanksgivings at this point and you’ll have another next year. You can see family in so many other ways. Why is thanksgiving of such paramount importance to you?
I want to treat this gingerly here. I know there's a possibility here that some posters, perhaps yourself, haven't looked forward to family holidays and don't view them as important at all (and need explanations that I'm not the best person to give it in a basic way). The kids growing up, love and support, therapeutic interactions, the social relationships restoring and prolonging mental health, all the joy and interaction, and especially knowing more distant relatives still value the interaction. It aint family through a screen, and it isn't even close. I can't really speak to your own need to know why family holidays are important, and what the pro side of the "cost benefit risk analysis." Maybe if I knew you better. We're all social beings needing that love and support, and it's been a tough nine months.
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On November 22 2020 13:25 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Concerning the "staying in for nine months has harmed people's mental health" line of thinking when talking about missing the holidays, I'll say this:
Suck it up.
Yes, there are significant mental health tolls that can't be ignored and mental health services should be strengthened to support those in need. But you know who misses holidays, weddings, and other family gatherings every single year?
Healthcare workers. Military service members. Police and firefighters. Critically ill and immuno-compromised patients that can't afford the risk in a normal, pandemic-less world. Homeless people. People working jobs that require travel. People in prison. Millions of people per year.
I've missed the last four Thanksgivings + Christmases because of a combination of military service and being a healthcare professional. It sucks, but holidays aren't some special gift from God wherein we have an immutable right to attend them with extended family and the laws of the world pause so that we can enjoy these significant cultural moments.
You can survive missing one holiday season when it means choosing between that and fanning the flames of a pandemic that has killed two hundred and fifty thousand Americans in less than a year. Indoor family gatherings have been shown time and time again to directly contribute to significant COVID-19 spread. There is no good way to bring people from several households together to have a holiday gathering when it comes to the pandemic.
This is the worst short-term public health crisis that anyone alive has ever seen. Act responsibly and we'll be able to have the holidays next year.
"Suck it up" is fantastic advice for anyone dealing mental health issues. It's probably the best advice you can give, right next to "stop doing that" for people that struggle with addiction and "stop eating so much, fatty" to people that struggle with their weight.
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On November 22 2020 16:01 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 14:35 Danglars wrote:On November 22 2020 12:31 LegalLord wrote:
A policy undermined by the obvious hypocrisy of "lockdowns for you, but none for me or for any of my well-connected friends with money and/or political power" is indeed a bad policy. Let's not defend hypocritical garbage like Newsom here.
Separate from the effectiveness of the policy, individuals should of course do what's best for them. Protect self and family from the plague is one of those; make sure to have enough money to survive because of a lack of government help is another. Even if that means working around the lack of good policy. Protect the vulnerable, comply with the low intrusive junk, and make a logical decision on the very intrusive stuff. I agree with that basis for behavior moving on towards vaccines. On November 22 2020 13:25 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Concerning the "staying in for nine months has harmed people's mental health" line of thinking when talking about missing the holidays, I'll say this:
Suck it up.
Yes, there are significant mental health tolls that can't be ignored and mental health services should be strengthened to support those in need. But you know who misses holidays, weddings, and other family gatherings every single year?
Healthcare workers. Military service members. Police and firefighters. Critically ill and immuno-compromised patients that can't afford the risk in a normal, pandemic-less world. Homeless people. People working jobs that require travel. People in prison. Millions of people per year.
I've missed the last four Thanksgivings + Christmases because of a combination of military service and being a healthcare professional. It sucks, but holidays aren't some special gift from God wherein we have an immutable right to attend them with extended family and the laws of the world pause so that we can enjoy these significant cultural moments.
You can survive missing one holiday season when it means choosing between that and fanning the flames of a pandemic that has killed two hundred and fifty thousand Americans in less than a year. Indoor family gatherings have been shown time and time again to directly contribute to significant COVID-19 spread. There is no good way to bring people from several households together to have a holiday gathering when it comes to the pandemic.
This is the worst short-term public health crisis that anyone alive has ever seen. Act responsibly and we'll be able to have the holidays next year. If only every American patterned their family lives according to the measures taken for the military and nurses. It ain’t for everybody, and I suspect you know it. Grandma and grandpa do “suck it up” in the sane part of necessary restrictions. Respiratory and immunocompromised too. Low risk people should not and ought not to cancel or severely limit normal family holidays. Neglecting, naturally, people that feel sick. We do not see eye to eye on this. Can you elaborate on the importance of family holidays and why the cost benefit risk analysis regarding covid means it is worthwhile? You’ve had so many thanksgivings at this point and you’ll have another next year. You can see family in so many other ways. Why is thanksgiving of such paramount importance to you?
I used to think I had all the time in the world to spend with my parents until I watched a Tiktok video where someone said "If your parents have roughly 10 more years left to live but you only see them once a year on the holidays then instead of viewing it as you have 10 years left with your parents you should view it as you have only 10 visits left with your parents." Well I don't plan on going home for the holidays so now I only have 9 visits left. I'm guessing for some people that <1% chance their parents die from COVID makes it worth it to see them on the holidays.
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A conservative talking about mental health as a reason to do something.
Talk about a slippery slope.
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Dismissiveness, condescension, snottiness, those always come in very handy when convincing people of your views. Also make sure to mention that you obviously have the facts on your side and opposing views are uneducated. As we all know, science is always settled, absolute truth is in fact knowable, and any and all disagreements as well as uncertainties or other gray areas must certainly stem from ignorance.
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As a happy side note, after 9 days I can finally taste and smell again! I can't express how good it was to taste pizza again! To smell it while it was cooking. And today I finally get to go outside again after more or less 3-4 weeks locked up!
The weather sucks but I don't care! Fresh air! :-D
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On November 22 2020 19:09 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 13:25 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Concerning the "staying in for nine months has harmed people's mental health" line of thinking when talking about missing the holidays, I'll say this:
Suck it up.
Yes, there are significant mental health tolls that can't be ignored and mental health services should be strengthened to support those in need. But you know who misses holidays, weddings, and other family gatherings every single year?
Healthcare workers. Military service members. Police and firefighters. Critically ill and immuno-compromised patients that can't afford the risk in a normal, pandemic-less world. Homeless people. People working jobs that require travel. People in prison. Millions of people per year.
I've missed the last four Thanksgivings + Christmases because of a combination of military service and being a healthcare professional. It sucks, but holidays aren't some special gift from God wherein we have an immutable right to attend them with extended family and the laws of the world pause so that we can enjoy these significant cultural moments.
You can survive missing one holiday season when it means choosing between that and fanning the flames of a pandemic that has killed two hundred and fifty thousand Americans in less than a year. Indoor family gatherings have been shown time and time again to directly contribute to significant COVID-19 spread. There is no good way to bring people from several households together to have a holiday gathering when it comes to the pandemic.
This is the worst short-term public health crisis that anyone alive has ever seen. Act responsibly and we'll be able to have the holidays next year. "Suck it up" is fantastic advice for anyone dealing mental health issues. It's probably the best advice you can give, right next to "stop doing that" for people that struggle with addiction and "stop eating so much, fatty" to people that struggle with their weight.
It's almost like you didn't read my post, missing the sentence where I explicitly said that we should be strengthening mental health services for those in need.
If only every American patterned their family lives according to the measures taken for the military and nurses. It ain’t for everybody, and I suspect you know it. Grandma and grandpa do “suck it up” in the sane part of necessary restrictions. Respiratory and immunocompromised too. Low risk people should not and ought not to cancel or severely limit normal family holidays. Neglecting, naturally, people that feel sick. We do not see eye to eye on this.
Limiting social gatherings is a 100% "sane" restriction. Despite you continuing to assert the contrary, it has been shown again and again that even smaller family gatherings spread the virus rapidly and that they have been consistently linked to outbreaks across the country. Americans' obsession with being special and pretending that their social habits are a safe exception to the rules is what got us to the worst outbreak in the world.
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On November 22 2020 23:20 JimmiC wrote:
If you make your life choices at all with logic, risk benefit analysis, or however it is not hard to see what is the best choice.
Here we go again with the condescension.
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There are many thousands, or rather millions of jobs being lost. Untold amounts of people are struggling to even keep food on the table. More parents than in a very long time don't know how to keep their kids fed and healthy. Most parents, when you ask them, just want to get a job. They want financial security, and they know only having a job can provide that for them. But far too many can't find one right now because of the restrictions on businesses, or businesses having to file for bankruptcy, especially smaller ones. There are many jobs that will be lost permanently. Many careers flushed down the drain, dreams shattered, and even basic neccessities are becoming hard to come by for many people.
And here you are telling people to "make a small sacrifice". How old are you even?
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EPT
