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On October 19 2020 19:34 arbiter_md wrote:Show nested quote +closing the borders back down doesn't do enough when the virus is already inside. I think it does. Everybody is talking how people should limit to only essential travel. But many people have a very liberal definition of essential. Closing the borders makes this part clear. Imagine the borders being closed during the summer vacation. We would probably have delayed the second wave in Europe by at least a month. But all those average Joe had to go abroad, like they do every year. Even though there's a touristic attraction around the corner of their house which they never visited. I should have been more clear, because your right.
'Just' closing the borders doesn't help when the virus is already inside, so closing bars/restaurants to halt/slow down the spread may be necessary.
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On October 19 2020 19:34 arbiter_md wrote:Show nested quote +closing the borders back down doesn't do enough when the virus is already inside. I think it does. Everybody is talking how people should limit to only essential travel. But many people have a very liberal definition of essential. Closing the borders makes this part clear. Imagine the borders being closed during the summer vacation. We would probably have delayed the second wave in Europe by at least a month. But all those average Joe had to go abroad, like they do every year. Even though there's a touristic attraction around the corner of their house which they never visited.
Closing the borders during the summer months would have been a far better idea. We did a huge effort to control it within each country, and then threw it away in the hope of salvaging an already doomed tourism season. I'm not going to claim the current outbreaks are due to travel throughout june-august, but I am sure the added difficulty in tracking and tracing the comings and goings of tourists contributed a fair amount. Spain's current outbreak obviously started with Madrid (again). And I don't think it's due to Madrid that the Netherlands, Belgium or France need to reimpose lockdown measures. But the root cause for all of these is no doubt that we let things get out of control between bars, restaurants, home parties, beach tourism and just plain a large quantity of people out and about, the cases have been rising slowly and surely, and nobody wanted to be the first to say "whoops, we need stricter measures". Turns out that if you just let it slide, then eventually the increased cases without serious hospitalizations turns into increased cases that do threaten to overwhelm hospitals, and we're back to square one.
And when you're there, shutting down travel is mostly useless: the problem is no longer people going/coming from other countries spreading Covid, it is people within the country spreading it to one another. That said, the current "not a lockdown" of shutting bars and restaurants but not restricting travel or gatherings in any other significant way is not good, and it doesn't surprise me that the hospitality branch is outraged: while I don't feel shutting bars and restaurants is unwarranted, it should clearly go hand-in-hand with general restrictions on private life. However much returning to mostly lockdown sucks, at least do something that has a chance of working. Just shutting down restaurants and bars (which is the added measure that Spain took on top of measures that were not working) feels like it's just a feeble attempt at blaming the industry rather than an effective package of measures to reduce the spread of Covid again.
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For all my 'merca bros, what are your families doing for thanksgiving? My mother in law is in her 60s and basically said "forget thanksgiving this year. If I die from this one, I don't get to attend the future ones, so I'd rather just sit this one out".
So we're just not doing thanksgiving this year. A co-worker of mine would rather die than not see his kids for thanksgiving. It seems totally all over the place.
For me, demanding thanksgiving despite a pandemic just seems wildly entitled. To me, it says that some people see no circumstance where they should ever have to miss out on something that they want. The idea of not having something they normally have is totally out of the question. It is so weird to me. It's like they can't grasp the idea that viruses don't first consult humanity to see what is and what isn't reasonable lol
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We don't gather anyway because we're spread across the world. But yeah we'd probably skip this year especially since my parents are both over 70.
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Can't travel because as of right now work is requiring me to self quarantinee 14 days if I travel to any states that are red. Guess will have to do virtual Thanksgiving this year
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On October 21 2020 14:04 Titusmaster6 wrote:
Can't travel because as of right now work is requiring me to self quarantinee 14 days if I travel to any states that are red. Guess will have to do virtual Thanksgiving this year
That's kind of messed up. Why can't you just go and not tell them? Why is it there business what you do on your days off?
Personally I'm not going home because I don't want to risk giving COVID to my elderly parents. Also holidays were never that big in my family and we don't have any extended family that we celebrate with. I'll probably go home next year and we'll have a Turkey dinner in the spring. Instead I've got a flight booked to Maui since Hawaii just opened back up for travel.
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On October 21 2020 19:20 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2020 14:04 Titusmaster6 wrote:
Can't travel because as of right now work is requiring me to self quarantinee 14 days if I travel to any states that are red. Guess will have to do virtual Thanksgiving this year That's kind of messed up. Why can't you just go and not tell them? Why is it there business what you do on your days off? Personally I'm not going home because I don't want to risk giving COVID to my elderly parents. Also holidays were never that big in my family and we don't have any extended family that we celebrate with. I'll probably go home next year and we'll have a Turkey dinner in the spring. Instead I've got a flight booked to Maui since Hawaii just opened back up for travel.
It is their business because if he got infected during his travels, he could infect everyone else in the office. So it is very sensible to demand quarantine of those who willingly travel to more risky areas.
I'd generally say that travelling large distances and then meeting with a lot of people who also travelled large distances sounds like a really bad idea right now. I know that i will not go to my parents (or especially my grandparents!) for christmas, because i don't want to risk infecting them.
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On October 21 2020 10:23 Mohdoo wrote:
For all my 'merca bros, what are your families doing for thanksgiving? My mother in law is in her 60s and basically said "forget thanksgiving this year. If I die from this one, I don't get to attend the future ones, so I'd rather just sit this one out".
So we're just not doing thanksgiving this year. A co-worker of mine would rather die than not see his kids for thanksgiving. It seems totally all over the place.
For me, demanding thanksgiving despite a pandemic just seems wildly entitled. To me, it says that some people see no circumstance where they should ever have to miss out on something that they want. The idea of not having something they normally have is totally out of the question. It is so weird to me. It's like they can't grasp the idea that viruses don't first consult humanity to see what is and what isn't reasonable lol
Same with us. My family traditionally gets together for both Thanksgiving and Christmas. We're simply cancelling our in-person celebrations. None of us are happy about it, but all of us understand the situation and agree that it's the only safe option.
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Gyms still closed in Hawaii but we’ve opened up to tourists.
Time to go out and vote our officials out of office.
We can discuss the pros and cons of having gyms open during COVID. But I’ve already discussed it to death with my peers. I’m just venting
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On October 22 2020 02:24 Emnjay808 wrote:
Gyms still closed in Hawaii but we’ve opened up to tourists.
Time to go out and vote our officials out of office.
We can discuss the pros and cons of having gyms open during COVID. But I’ve already discussed it to death with my peers. I’m just venting
It seems like as long as people are doing weights rather than cardio, and everyone is forced to wear a mask the entire time, its fine.
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On October 22 2020 03:28 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2020 02:24 Emnjay808 wrote:
Gyms still closed in Hawaii but we’ve opened up to tourists.
Time to go out and vote our officials out of office.
We can discuss the pros and cons of having gyms open during COVID. But I’ve already discussed it to death with my peers. I’m just venting It seems like as long as people are doing weights rather than cardio, and everyone is forced to wear a mask the entire time, its fine.
Agreed.
I've done a bit of lifting and at most, longer rests between sets of squats than normal. For continuous exercise, do it outside without a mask. Running indoors with a mask sounds miserable.
Also has the secondary benefit of slightly muting the grunters and screamers
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Yup mask wearing was enforced. People just slipped it down their nose during vigorous workouts though, which gym operators ignored.
Caldwell still won’t open up hawaii completely. It’s really frustrating. I can go to bars and share utensils and glasses with X amount of strangers but working out in a gym with precaution is a NO NO
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On October 22 2020 04:28 Emnjay808 wrote:
Yup mask wearing was enforced. People just slipped it down their nose during vigorous workouts though, which gym operators ignored.
Caldwell still won’t open up hawaii completely. It’s really frustrating. I can go to bars and share utensils and glasses with X amount of strangers but working out in a gym with precaution is a NO NO
See so this is bad. If the nose isn't covered, the mask may as well not be worn. There is no wiggle room here. If gyms aren't able to keep people following rules, those gyms should be closed.
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I’m not a mask advocate but I still follow the rules if it means that a place stays open. But I’m going to gripe if these rules don’t apply to all places of business.
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Looking at the map of infection and death, things look just about as bad as they've ever been. Looks like the virus is just about everywhere except the Australia / NZ area, many countries reporting "worst ever" infection and death results, and a lot of the big infection centers of early in the pandemic are seeing giant resurgences in case and death load. East Europe, West Europe, North America, South America, Asia, Africa... it's pretty much bad news everywhere. And we're barely into the start of the cold weather season.
What's the over/under on more lockdowns? At this point I'm seeing big pushes to wear more masks, everywhere all the time, but no rush to lock down in the face of alarming data. If the coronavirus is really as seasonal as we suspect (despite being remarkably resilient in the summer), it's very likely to end up forcing the issue.
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I think it will depend on whether young people start dying or being debilitated in larger numbers. As long as covid mostly kills the elderly I bet a lot of countries will take the economy over those lives.
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On October 22 2020 12:04 LegalLord wrote:
Looking at the map of infection and death, things look just about as bad as they've ever been. Looks like the virus is just about everywhere except the Australia / NZ area, many countries reporting "worst ever" infection and death results, and a lot of the big infection centers of early in the pandemic are seeing giant resurgences in case and death load. East Europe, West Europe, North America, South America, Asia, Africa... it's pretty much bad news everywhere. And we're barely into the start of the cold weather season.
What's the over/under on more lockdowns? At this point I'm seeing big pushes to wear more masks, everywhere all the time, but no rush to lock down in the face of alarming data. If the coronavirus is really as seasonal as we suspect (despite being remarkably resilient in the summer), it's very likely to end up forcing the issue.
I don't think lockdowns will help anything since the issue is people gathering in homes, or so I imagine. If people can't hang out in parks comfortably anymore, they will roll the dice and see if they get covid. So long as people feel entitled to social fulfillment and comfort, they will continue to pretend covid doesn't exist. Bunch of fucking idiot whiners.
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On October 23 2020 00:58 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2020 12:04 LegalLord wrote:
Looking at the map of infection and death, things look just about as bad as they've ever been. Looks like the virus is just about everywhere except the Australia / NZ area, many countries reporting "worst ever" infection and death results, and a lot of the big infection centers of early in the pandemic are seeing giant resurgences in case and death load. East Europe, West Europe, North America, South America, Asia, Africa... it's pretty much bad news everywhere. And we're barely into the start of the cold weather season.
What's the over/under on more lockdowns? At this point I'm seeing big pushes to wear more masks, everywhere all the time, but no rush to lock down in the face of alarming data. If the coronavirus is really as seasonal as we suspect (despite being remarkably resilient in the summer), it's very likely to end up forcing the issue. I don't think lockdowns will help anything since the issue is people gathering in homes, or so I imagine. If people can't hang out in parks comfortably anymore, they will roll the dice and see if they get covid. So long as people feel entitled to social fulfillment and comfort, they will continue to pretend covid doesn't exist. Bunch of fucking idiot whiners.
You haven't experienced a Euro style lockdown anywhere in the US except NY in the early days. But gathering in homes is forbidden. It still occurred sporadically, but if the police got wind of it, you got a very hefty fine. Also for being out in the street without a valid reason (for instance, if you were on your way to a friend's house). Parks, beaches, bars and all shops except for essentials (basically food and pharmacies) were closed. We even had two weeks of a general prohibition of work that couldn't be remote.
I don't think there is any support for that to come back, but there is growing support for a curfew and probably for a general prohibition on gatherings (currently social gatherings are discouraged, but allowed up to a max of 6 people).
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On October 23 2020 00:58 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2020 12:04 LegalLord wrote:
Looking at the map of infection and death, things look just about as bad as they've ever been. Looks like the virus is just about everywhere except the Australia / NZ area, many countries reporting "worst ever" infection and death results, and a lot of the big infection centers of early in the pandemic are seeing giant resurgences in case and death load. East Europe, West Europe, North America, South America, Asia, Africa... it's pretty much bad news everywhere. And we're barely into the start of the cold weather season.
What's the over/under on more lockdowns? At this point I'm seeing big pushes to wear more masks, everywhere all the time, but no rush to lock down in the face of alarming data. If the coronavirus is really as seasonal as we suspect (despite being remarkably resilient in the summer), it's very likely to end up forcing the issue. I don't think lockdowns will help anything since the issue is people gathering in homes, or so I imagine. If people can't hang out in parks comfortably anymore, they will roll the dice and see if they get covid. So long as people feel entitled to social fulfillment and comfort, they will continue to pretend covid doesn't exist. Bunch of fucking idiot whiners.
They definitely help. Certainly, a lot of people will circumvent the rules or act stupidly, but simply by virtue of things being closed there will be a lot fewer vectors for spread. The Arizona situation - where the spread was cut in four by a pretty halfhearted but still effective lockdown - is about the standard you could hope for without being willing to go full-on China with stopping the spread.
There are a lot fewer people you could potentially get infected from at a private party than at a school or bar or something, that's for sure.
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