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On September 23 2020 19:46 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2020 03:45 Simberto wrote:
I just hope that i will be able to do my final exams in a month. I am gonna be seriously pissed if those assholes who just cannot do without an Oktoberfest forced me to be in Limbo for another half of a year. It is so strange to me. Just don't party for a year. You can do that. It isn't hard. Or football games. We can do without those, too. Not partying for a year during late teens or early 20s sounds pretty fkn hellish tbh, think I'd rather spend a year in limbo than that. (I mean I guess I already did spend 1+year on my degrees because of this, but I think it was a fine choice, even retrospectively. ) Anyway I understand that people have different priorities for their lives and stuff like that. But at least to me, partying was an integral part of young adulthood, and I'm very sympathetic towards young people who stayed inside and did everything they were told to do for 2-3 months during the first phase of the lockdown - but who are dismayed by people telling them they now have to have another go at it (and at least in Norway - after covid was basically brought back to Norway because of tourists, most of whom were not students or young adults. Even two weeks can be a pretty unbearably long time period if you're looking forward to partying with your crush. I'm basically just stating that what you perceive as a super annoying half year limbo might apply much the same to the people you are berating. 
I'm sure most people can accept some sacrifices for a specified period of time, especially a couple months, as long as there's a good reason and a plan that makes sense. Most people with decent judgment seemed to manage just fine in the beginning. But it's definitely a strain to go without meaningful social interaction (parties, sports, etc) for an extended period of time like this. Even if you know it's the right thing to do, after six months of this with no end in sight even the responsible people start to crack, let alone teens and early-20's.
That all being said, I don't think too many of us would disagree that those "world-traveling bar hopper" super-spreaders we hear about every once in a while are a bridge too far. I don't know if there's a way to go to a bar "responsibly" during a pandemic, but I feel like people should at least try.
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Norway28712 Posts
I'm actually going to a party on Saturday, one hosted by one of the chief physicians at the hospital in Trondheim.
So I'm a bit curious, too. During other social interactions the guy has been very good at supplying hand sanitizers, but I genuinely wonder how it's gonna look and how many people he has invited. :p
And yea, I thought teenagers in general did a really good job between march - may. I was teaching a class of graduating high schoolers at the time, and while many of them were really dismayed by how a lot of events they had been looking forward to (both internships and graduation related) ended up being cancelled, they were also very understanding and willing to make sacrifices. But I also remember a couple girls stating that a couple months is fine to flatten the curve and avoid overfilling hospitals, but that expecting them to stay inside and not party from age 19 through 21 just wasn't gonna happen. And I get that. This class was one where they were studying to become paramedics also, so they were more conscious about this stuff than most in their age group.
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On September 23 2020 23:32 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I'm actually going to a party on Saturday, one hosted by one of the chief physicians at the hospital in Trondheim.
So I'm a bit curious, too. During other social interactions the guy has been very good at supplying hand sanitizers, but I genuinely wonder how it's gonna look and how many people he has invited. :p
And yea, I thought teenagers in general did a really good job between march - may. I was teaching a class of graduating high schoolers at the time, and while many of them were really dismayed by how a lot of events they had been looking forward to (both internships and graduation related) ended up being cancelled, they were also very understanding and willing to make sacrifices. But I also remember a couple girls stating that a couple months is fine to flatten the curve and avoid overfilling hospitals, but that expecting them to stay inside and not party from age 19 through 21 just wasn't gonna happen. And I get that. This class was one where they were studying to become paramedics also, so they were more conscious about this stuff than most in their age group.
Hand sanitizer helps prevent you from shoving covid in your eyes, but it will do nothing for inhalation. ace2 is in eyes, nose and throat. Keep in mind that if you are just sitting next to someone talking, that is likely GG with or without hand sanitizer, if they are infected.
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Wearing a face shield and an N95 is kind of a party pooper, though.
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On September 24 2020 02:13 LegalLord wrote:
Wearing a face shield and an N95 is kind of a party pooper, though. How does it compare to long term lung damage?
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Just had results coming in from a coworker who was in last week (I wasn't) : positive with mild symptoms.
We are wearing masks at all time except lunch, and at lunch we are eating in diagonals, 1 chair out of two. Every person who ate in front of him (well, front left and front right) at any point last week is considered a contact case. That means around 60% of the team I manage has been sent home to get tested on friday, we're left at 3 instead of 16...
Seeing as my work is considered nation critical and it's impossible to work from home, it's going to be an interesting two weeks... Everything not vital got immediately cancelled. If things stand, we are 4 or 5 next week, and I'm alone the week after. The minimum for the team to have systems function smoothly is usually around 8-10. Lol.
Bonus points : his grandfather died this morning. He won't be able to attend the funeral.
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On September 24 2020 02:26 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2020 02:13 LegalLord wrote:
Wearing a face shield and an N95 is kind of a party pooper, though. How does it compare to long term lung damage?
I'm being facetious. Obviously you want to put on the right level of protection, but the core problem is that "the right level of protection" is fairly incompatible with social interaction. You can't eat while wearing a mask, you can barely talk while wearing a mask, and if it's an N95 then you shouldn't even take it off under any circumstances in the middle of said activity.
I've stopped most such social events because honestly, wearing a mask and being worried about coronavirus makes them entirely unenjoyable. A group of people feels claustrophobic, and a mask feels suffocating. It just sucks the fun out of the whole thing, which is probably good for stopping the spread but definitely exacerbates the social interaction problem. For folks for whom that social interaction is paramount, there's a good incentive to skip the mask.
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Sure. It's not like any student/worker has to wear a mask 8hours a day. I'm sure it feels suffocating, but I barely notice it anymore. If you have trouble breathing and talking while wearing a mask, you should stay at home, because you won't survive covid.
No wonder your numbers are doubling every week.
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On September 24 2020 03:35 Erasme wrote:
It's not like any student/worker has to wear a mask 8hours a day.
Speak for yourself. A mix of the local law and the job I do means I have to do just that when working from the office. Thankfully it's usually WFH, but not always.
On September 24 2020 03:35 Erasme wrote:
I'm sure it feels suffocating, but I barely notice it anymore. If you have trouble breathing and talking while wearing a mask, you should stay at home, because you won't survive covid.
That's a nice bit of bravado, but the reality is that masks aren't invisible - they absolutely make talking and physical activity more difficult than not wearing one. Especially respirator-quality ones like N95. Though perhaps the biggest annoyance is that speech through masks is generally more garbled, making phone calls that much more difficult.
They are a noticeable inconvenience, their benefit in stopping plaguespreading notwithstanding. No point in trying to make-believe to the contrary.
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You missed the sarcasm. I do wear a mask from 8am to 7pm. And I do speak with other people around me without any trouble. It is a slight inconvenience, but not the life changing type that you make it out to be.
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They're not so bad if you mostly just sit in one place and don't talk too much.
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On September 24 2020 04:45 Erasme wrote:
You missed the sarcasm. I do wear a mask from 8am to 7pm. And I do speak with other people around me without any trouble. It is a slight inconvenience, but not the life changing type that you make it out to be.
Speech can be fine if you're someone who is normally loud and articulate. But plenty of people are not used to speaking that way, and masks *do* muffle sounds. I can tell you that as a second language speaker it definitely makes it harder for people to understand me, and essentially impossible if using both a mask and on the phone.
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Northern Ireland26094 Posts
On September 24 2020 05:20 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2020 04:45 Erasme wrote:
You missed the sarcasm. I do wear a mask from 8am to 7pm. And I do speak with other people around me without any trouble. It is a slight inconvenience, but not the life changing type that you make it out to be. Speech can be fine if you're someone who is normally loud and articulate. But plenty of people are not used to speaking that way, and masks *do* muffle sounds. I can tell you that as a second language speaker it definitely makes it harder for people to understand me, and essentially impossible if using both a mask and on the phone.
I’m one of nature’s quietly spoken fellows, I didn’t realise quite how much of the gaps one fills in by looking at mouths moving in combination with the sound itself.
Currently having a fun time having customers understand me, and often vice versa. Not to the degree I’d advocate against mask wearing, just slightly inconvenient. The silver lining is I can go around work swearing under my breath at the idiocy of the public for entire shifts free of consequence.
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On September 24 2020 05:20 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2020 04:45 Erasme wrote:
You missed the sarcasm. I do wear a mask from 8am to 7pm. And I do speak with other people around me without any trouble. It is a slight inconvenience, but not the life changing type that you make it out to be. Speech can be fine if you're someone who is normally loud and articulate. But plenty of people are not used to speaking that way, and masks *do* muffle sounds. I can tell you that as a second language speaker it definitely makes it harder for people to understand me, and essentially impossible if using both a mask and on the phone.
And that's totally fine. Nothing you described is remotely worth giving a shit about in a pandemic. The idea that people have an inconvenient time with something during a pandemic does not surprise me.
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On September 24 2020 07:44 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2020 05:20 Acrofales wrote:On September 24 2020 04:45 Erasme wrote:
You missed the sarcasm. I do wear a mask from 8am to 7pm. And I do speak with other people around me without any trouble. It is a slight inconvenience, but not the life changing type that you make it out to be. Speech can be fine if you're someone who is normally loud and articulate. But plenty of people are not used to speaking that way, and masks *do* muffle sounds. I can tell you that as a second language speaker it definitely makes it harder for people to understand me, and essentially impossible if using both a mask and on the phone. And that's totally fine. Nothing you described is remotely worth giving a shit about in a pandemic. The idea that people have an inconvenient time with something during a pandemic does not surprise me.
I'm not arguing against wearing a mask. I am arguing against people saying there are no down sides.
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Looks like at least one study is in on universities in the US, and coronavirus reopening:
Colleges and universities that reopened for face-to-face instruction might have caused tens of thousands of additional cases of Covid-19 in recent weeks, according to a new study conducted by researchers at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro, Indiana University, the University of Washington and Davidson College.
The researchers estimated that an extra 3,200 cases a day occurred in the U.S. that likely wouldn’t have happened had schools kept classes online.
The team behind the report, slated to be posted online Tuesday on the preprint server medRxiv, included professors of epidemiology, health economics and higher education. The manuscript has yet to be peer-reviewed.
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Many institutions grappled with whether to reopen dorms and hold classes in person, or keep lessons online as they had done in the spring. Some started back up with limited testing protocols in place or minor changes to residence halls, while others are requiring weekly swabs from even asymptomatic individuals.
“The finding that colleges drawing students from higher-risk areas experienced a larger increase in cases is critical for planning mitigation strategies in colleges,” Dr. Pei said.
Within weeks of opening, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and North Carolina State University reverted to online instruction and sent students home because of outbreaks of Covid-19, the illness caused by the new coronavirus. The University of Wisconsin-Madison, the University of Colorado Boulder and the University of Arizona have urged students to hunker down and shifted classes online, for at least a few weeks, to try to stem the virus’s spread.
Source
The number they cited (3200 a day) seems pretty substantial, although pretty much in line with what I've been reading in the local news about how the universities look like a major hotspot for the infection. Seems like it'd be a lot worse if not for the fact that a lot more students seem to currently have the option to be fully remote. I wonder how much infection grade schools are responsible for as well.
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On September 24 2020 12:45 LegalLord wrote:Looks like at least one study is in on universities in the US, and coronavirus reopening: Show nested quote +Colleges and universities that reopened for face-to-face instruction might have caused tens of thousands of additional cases of Covid-19 in recent weeks, according to a new study conducted by researchers at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro, Indiana University, the University of Washington and Davidson College.
The researchers estimated that an extra 3,200 cases a day occurred in the U.S. that likely wouldn’t have happened had schools kept classes online.
The team behind the report, slated to be posted online Tuesday on the preprint server medRxiv, included professors of epidemiology, health economics and higher education. The manuscript has yet to be peer-reviewed.
...
Many institutions grappled with whether to reopen dorms and hold classes in person, or keep lessons online as they had done in the spring. Some started back up with limited testing protocols in place or minor changes to residence halls, while others are requiring weekly swabs from even asymptomatic individuals.
“The finding that colleges drawing students from higher-risk areas experienced a larger increase in cases is critical for planning mitigation strategies in colleges,” Dr. Pei said.
Within weeks of opening, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and North Carolina State University reverted to online instruction and sent students home because of outbreaks of Covid-19, the illness caused by the new coronavirus. The University of Wisconsin-Madison, the University of Colorado Boulder and the University of Arizona have urged students to hunker down and shifted classes online, for at least a few weeks, to try to stem the virus’s spread. SourceThe number they cited (3200 a day) seems pretty substantial, although pretty much in line with what I've been reading in the local news about how the universities look like a major hotspot for the infection. Seems like it'd be a lot worse if not for the fact that a lot more students seem to currently have the option to be fully remote. I wonder how much infection grade schools are responsible for as well.
As we get better and better methods of preventing extreme symptoms/infection, I will be curious to see what these cases actually look like. Before widespread mask use, people were getting severely higher doses of covid. We had church choirs totally GG'ing tons of people at a super high rate, but we also now have instances where a bunch of people just get a mild flu because their dose was so low.
As of right now, it is a funny situation for me, because my wife was the sickest she has ever been, with a miserable cough, after flying in February. I felt kinda shitty after that. I look really forward to the kind of analysis and information that you can only really get after a long time studying a virus. For a long time I thought there was a secret key to covid and that there was a particularly high risk thing that happens sometimes, but now I really think its just dosage and the variability to people's breath covid concentration.
We see some kids spewing more covid than an ICU patient. Then we see some very sick people not spewing much covid. It could just be that the random nature of spewing amount and the huge differences in how much you breathe in from being in different types of rooms with different types of air flows. Church with low ceilings and terrible circulation and no masks? Everyone is fucked. Grocery store with mandatory masks? Congrats, you may have accidentally vaccinated yourself and you'll never know it, maybe. Or something totally different. Extremely fascinating situation, albeit unpleasant and notably negative.
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My real question is, what happens in the colder months? The coronavirus seems to have notable resilience even in the unfavorable months, but precedent suggests that it does better when it's colder. Summer only just ended, and we're seeing a visible resurgence across the board - let's see how aggressively the death rate follows.
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Is this dosage thing scientifially proven? I have not heard this in the news or anywhere. Though I'm not listening much to Covid news anymore
Because this could be a huuuuuuge incentive for people of all ages to keep living with the restrictions (masks, distance, careful, no parties) and eventually be rewareded with immunity.
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EPT
