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On July 03 2020 06:56 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2020 05:33 Mohdoo wrote:
Do we have anyone from Florida around? What's it like over there? It seems like a complete disaster. My girlfriend lives in Florida, so I've gone down to visit her a couple of times this year. Floridians are pretty much in denial. COVID-19 just doesn't exist for them... Masks? Nope. No one wears masks. If I walk around with a mask on and they see me, they just roll their eyes and shake their heads. Either that, or they just avoid me entirely since I'm Asian. Social Distancing? Nope. People are always getting together for barbecue parties and other social gatherings. I see people openly playing sports like basketball, frisbee golf, and other activities that require your bodies to be way too close to each other. Working from home? Yes, but they hate it. One of my gf's friends actually worked in a place where the CEO refused to shut down and have their employees work from home until a positive COVID-19 case finally came out from one of their own. And after having everyone work from home, this company was one of the first ones to open up again and have everyone come into the office. Gyms have reopened. Restaurants too. Dining in is heavily frowned upon, but some people don't care, and they just do it anyway. At least most people prefer outdoor seating if the option is available. It's bad down there... They simply just don't care...
Doesnt florida have a high population of older people? You would then infer based on the fact that it kills mostly older people, that it would have a higher kill rate compared to a similar climate, city layouts, public transit and housing. Have you compared it with any other states or city vs city across the globe who is doing more?
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On July 04 2020 18:01 MarlieChurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2020 06:56 Seeker wrote:On July 03 2020 05:33 Mohdoo wrote:
Do we have anyone from Florida around? What's it like over there? It seems like a complete disaster. My girlfriend lives in Florida, so I've gone down to visit her a couple of times this year. Floridians are pretty much in denial. COVID-19 just doesn't exist for them... Masks? Nope. No one wears masks. If I walk around with a mask on and they see me, they just roll their eyes and shake their heads. Either that, or they just avoid me entirely since I'm Asian. Social Distancing? Nope. People are always getting together for barbecue parties and other social gatherings. I see people openly playing sports like basketball, frisbee golf, and other activities that require your bodies to be way too close to each other. Working from home? Yes, but they hate it. One of my gf's friends actually worked in a place where the CEO refused to shut down and have their employees work from home until a positive COVID-19 case finally came out from one of their own. And after having everyone work from home, this company was one of the first ones to open up again and have everyone come into the office. Gyms have reopened. Restaurants too. Dining in is heavily frowned upon, but some people don't care, and they just do it anyway. At least most people prefer outdoor seating if the option is available. It's bad down there... They simply just don't care... Doesnt florida have a high population of older people? You would then infer based on the fact that it kills mostly older people, that it would have a higher kill rate compared to a similar climate, city layouts, public transit and housing. Have you compared it with any other states or city vs city across the globe who is doing more?
Currently it is mostly spiking among young people. However, young people can very easily spread it to the elderly, but we won't see if that's happened for another week or so. Florida has also rather infamously been accused of cooking its coronavirus stats by a former employee.
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Why would numbers be stabilising? it hasn't been 2 weeks yet since measures were taken (some places are still barely taking measures).
Expect at least another 2 weeks of increasing cases.
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Is the US finally starting to do something, or do they still have the Trumpian plan of simply ignoring the pandemic and hoping that it goes away if they don't accept its existance going on?
The numbers should be frightening. But they should have been frightening a month ago, too.
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On July 05 2020 08:29 Simberto wrote:
Is the US finally starting to do something, or do they still have the Trumpian plan of simply ignoring the pandemic and hoping that it goes away if they don't accept its existance going on?
The numbers should be frightening. But they should have been frightening a month ago, too.
Varies a lot by state I think. National leadership has been non-existent. The numbers should be frightening but seemingly a lot of people still take it lightly or even claim it is a hoax. Mind boggling how selfish and arrogant people are acting about simple precautions like mask wearing.
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On July 05 2020 09:38 JimmiC wrote:
That is my question I know some counties are putting in measures. But are people falling them. you mean following?
Purely anecdotal evidence from the internet, which doesn't mean much, says that many aren't listening but I don't know if that is a small minority that stands out or if its bigger and more dangerous.
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What strikes me as particularly tragic with the situation in the States is that, from what I have understood, quite tough measures were actually put in place, but not in a consistent way and not at the right time (mostly too late), so that everything that was possibly gained by locking down the country was immediately lost. But not before pushing 10s of millions of people into unemployment. And, quite honestly, after what has arguably been the largest protest movement in the history of the country, it seems almost pointless to me to even try to stop the spread of the disease at this point.
On July 05 2020 09:38 JimmiC wrote:
That is my question I know some counties are putting in measures. But are people falling them.
My experience from Stockholm, where the measures weren't mandatory, is that people generally followed the recommendations very well until Easter. After that things have slowly gone back to almost exactly as it was before.
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Social distancing rules have eased in UK since yesterday. They were announced last week, so people had time to prepare.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51506729 gives a summary as well as the rules in the other countries.
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Canada13410 Posts
On July 05 2020 23:06 JimmiC wrote:
@gorsameth auto correct for the loss!
@elroi I'm not sure that the protests have made that much of a difference in the spread. Not saying it is nothing but the areas that are exploding are not the areas with the biggest protests they are the ones where governor's ignored the numbers, down played the Pandemic, have lots of Trump supporters(which means no masks and no distancing) and reopened earlier. I think the protests are actually relatively low risk since they are outdoors and I see a lot of masks. The main spread seem to be inside whether that is work, clubs, and so on.
The protests, beaches and all that is not no risk, but just not compared to even regular home gatherings with group and so on.
Seems to me that the US is facing the following systemic errors:
- they did enable some closures and lockdowns in parts of the country where cases were beginning to climb
-- however --
- interstate travel wasn't restricted (meant reservoirs could spread the virus)
- numbers were never taken seriously at the federal level either
ALSO
- states that had zero cases closed too soon to "avoid coronavirus" - but they didnt have any curve to lower
- So they opened it up once their economies were too harmed and then they opened too fast once the virus actually got to them
The US is HUGE! Like, they did the backwards of what was necessary. If they wanted to lock every state down they should have done it in a coordinated manner with interstate travel restrictions. This would have limited hotspot spread and they should have opened more slowly.
Basically - what Canada and all other countries tried to do. They locked down inter-regional travel with the exception of supply chains. This limited the ability for one reservoir to spread the virus to another. Then the social distance and lockdown rules actually worked because each smaller region was able to independently slow the spread which meant that doing some reopening was safe.
When the numbers are small enough contact tracing and managing smaller outbreaks is possible. But in a lot of parts of the US its clear the numbers never got small enough before opening which just exacerbated all the issues in place.
At the very least the US is teaching other countries to be extra careful and slow in opening up.
Also they'll be barred from international travel for a very long time given how much worse they are then the rest of the developed western world. People will sooner travel to china and some of south america than america at this rate.
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The last couple of weeks have been quite strange. Notionally, it seems like life is "back to normal with masks" - stores are open, going into the office at work is a regular occurrence, roads are filled up, crowds gather in popular locations, so on and so forth. Airports, the first to see trouble, look relatively busy and flights are starting to look full again. The stock market is seeing sunshine and rainbows anywhere and everywhere.
But on some level, it's pretty clear that this whole thing is an illusion. Case numbers are reaching new highs and it's not hard to see that this happened the moment the US started to open up again. Most aggressively in the states and localities that didn't take the virus seriously, but even in those that acted carefully the news is only so-so. Feels like it's only a matter of time before things go from bad to worse and we're right back to a replay of March's debacle.
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On July 06 2020 02:12 LegalLord wrote:
The last couple of weeks have been quite strange. Notionally, it seems like life is "back to normal with masks" - stores are open, going into the office at work is a regular occurrence, roads are filled up, crowds gather in popular locations, so on and so forth. Airports, the first to see trouble, look relatively busy and flights are starting to look full again. The stock market is seeing sunshine and rainbows anywhere and everywhere.
But on some level, it's pretty clear that this whole thing is an illusion. Case numbers are reaching new highs and it's not hard to see that this happened the moment the US started to open up again. Most aggressively in the states and localities that didn't take the virus seriously, but even in those that acted carefully the news is only so-so. Feels like it's only a matter of time before things go from bad to worse and we're right back to a replay of March's debacle.
Yeah I definitely agree. This has been a really great example of why federal governments exist. You can't have individual states floundering a pandemic response. The federal government needed to step up, take leadership, dictate methodology, provide support where needed and minimize the spread. States rights are a great thing in a lot of instances, but you can't let a pandemic be improperly/insufficiently suppressed. The whole point is that it gets worse with time. Countries that took appropriate action early on are reaping the benefits now. We are losing more money by trying to save money. It was illogical, short term thinking that was clearly wrong. A competent federal government would have saved 10s of thousands of lives. Very sad situation and it is clearly going to get much worse. I hope more states institute state quarantine procedures.
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Can't really argue with results. Apart from the pretty brutal lesson in LTC homes, Canada has done amazingly well. In terms of new cases, we're around current Italy level. As a country, we have far more faith in our healthcare system, public officials and it really helps when you have headlines like this which reinforce trust.
The Top Doctor Who Aced the Coronavirus Test
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/world/canada/bonnie-henry-british-columbia-coronavirus.html
If BC's stats were extrapolated to Canada, we'd have 22161 cases and 1331 deaths. Extrapolated to USA, that's the equivalent of 191k cases, 11.5k deaths, which is less than 1/10th of what the USA has, despite the outbreaks in LTC homes.
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The next major milestone for the US is 1% of total population officially infected by covid. This milestone should happen in the next week.
It's staggering how badly handled it is on the whole. They were the last major country to get hit, and are handling it about as badly as possible.
The canadian border is a bit leaky unfortunately with people who are "going to alaska". I live in a not touristy location, but Whistler, banff and other major destinations might get hammered by Americans.
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EPT
