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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1572 Posts
On April 15 2020 01:16 TT1 wrote: ![[image loading]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/494408885126561794/699654235742011472/asdasdased.png) whats going on in the us? it's getting outta control Criminal causes aren't something to exclude. Or a more "rational" theory, American genes very weak vs covid-19. Now more seriously, America has the greatest "template" in the world. Just replace it by "contamination rate" and here is your answer. User was warned for this post | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21703 Posts
On April 15 2020 01:16 TT1 wrote: They ignored it for to long, and the lockdown is still volentary? in many places.whats going on in the us? it's getting outta control | ||
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TT1
Canada10009 Posts
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-testing ![[image loading]](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/494408885126561794/699665039434448966/asdasdasdtled.png) | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10656 Posts
What would the testing criteria be for the other counties that fall below? Or I suppose testing kits are still not readily available as wed like. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2625 Posts
So here are two lessons from Sweden for when your country plans to end their lock down. 1) Protect your elderly. It's getting abundantly clear that this should be priority 1. Our care homes for old people were a shitshow looooooong before this virus due to savings/penny-pinching and greed and all the problems they already had are amplified when corona hits. So it's very important to not be understaffed (you probably want to start over-staffing full-time personal right now) because once staff get sick the staff shortages will cripple everything else. An already high turnover rate with most of the staff being temps will get even worse. This is of course incredibly bad since the risk of getting the virus into the facility increases with every new person. It will also make any attempt on training staff in hygiene routines and how to use protective gear difficult since you get new people all the time. It also makes coordination a mess as people won't have current information due to being new. This means you have confused and sick elderly people walking around more or less unsupervised because you have to few people with to little training and instruction doing more work. So have a lot of people from the start, train them beforehand, test them and make sure they are equipped. Also for the love of god do not trust private companies to handle this shit. Their go to "fix" for anything is to write a memo and have a meeting before dropping it on some temp worker as soon as the press looks away. You can't even rely on them having enough *soap* on hand. 2) Apparently immigrant groups are over represented in numbers of cases/deaths. This could be due to either communication failures early on (not having information in the right language, not reaching out in the channels that the community uses) or social factors (crowded or multi generational living). So keep this in mind and address these issues. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2625 Posts
On April 15 2020 02:11 Emnjay808 wrote: Surprising US is third in “per capita” testing. That can’t be good considering testing in my state is VERY LOW imo. They only swab u in a drive through in the park if you exhibit fever like symptoms. What would the testing criteria be for the other counties that fall below? Or I suppose testing kits are still not readily available as wed like. Essentially being so sick that you need hospital admission. Drive through swabbing is a very good testing practice and it means you have a ton of test kits avalible. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On April 15 2020 02:11 Emnjay808 wrote: Surprising US is third in “per capita” testing. That can’t be good considering testing in my state is VERY LOW imo. They only swab u in a drive through in the park if you exhibit fever like symptoms. What would the testing criteria be for the other counties that fall below? Or I suppose testing kits are still not readily available as wed like. It is only so because a select few countries are listed in the graph. Many more have higher per capita testing numbers. Some primary date from th source linked by TT. Missing are e.g. Iceland, Germany, France, du to lack of current data. + Show Spoiler +
Sorry for the weird formatting. excel copy paste | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
On April 15 2020 02:19 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: While you can't really compare countries you can still learn from each other. So here are two lessons from Sweden for when your country plans to end their lock down. 1) Protect your elderly. It's getting abundantly clear that this should be priority 1. Our care homes for old people were a shitshow looooooong before this virus due to savings/penny-pinching and greed and all the problems they already had are amplified when corona hits. So it's very important to not be understaffed (you probably want to start over-staffing full-time personal right now) because once staff get sick the staff shortages will cripple everything else. An already high turnover rate with most of the staff being temps will get even worse. This is of course incredibly bad since the risk of getting the virus into the facility increases with every new person. It will also make any attempt on training staff in hygiene routines and how to use protective gear difficult since you get new people all the time. It also makes coordination a mess as people won't have current information due to being new. This means you have confused and sick elderly people walking around more or less unsupervised because you have to few people with to little training and instruction doing more work. So have a lot of people from the start, train them beforehand, test them and make sure they are equipped. Also for the love of god do not trust private companies to handle this shit. Their go to "fix" for anything is to write a memo and have a meeting before dropping it on some temp worker as soon as the press looks away. You can't even rely on them having enough *soap* on hand. 2) Apparently immigrant groups are over represented in numbers of cases/deaths. This could be due to either communication failures early on (not having information in the right language, not reaching out in the channels that the community uses) or social factors (crowded or multi generational living). So keep this in mind and address these issues. In Canada, care homes were one of the first things that British Columbia locked down. In our province, care homes try to save money by only hiring staff part time, and saving on benefits payments. This leads to staff going to multiple facilities, meaning if one gets sick, they can infect multiple care homes. The government locked it down very early, forcing nurses to declare a single home that they work at so that outbreaks can be contained more easily, and spread is minimized. In comparison, other provinces like Ontario didn't do this, and they can't control the spread between homes once it starts.Private care homes are also brutal in that they try to cut every possible corner in order to make extra money. https://globalnews.ca/news/6810089/quebec-coroner-to-investigate-31-deaths-at-seniors-home-in-montreal/ Close to half the deaths in Canada are due to long term care homes: https://globalnews.ca/news/6811726/coronavirus-long-term-care-deaths-canada/ Once a facility is infected, it's devastatingly hard to get rid of because of seniors dependence. I have a coworker trying to move her mom out of a facility with confirmed covid cases now and it's terrible. Her mom has alzheimers, and the facility is locked down so that she cannot go inside. Moving in/out is the responsibility of the family, so the only solution is that her mom needs to collect stuff from the room by herself, and move them outside. For someone with alzheimer's, this is something incredibly hard to do. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28674 Posts
On April 15 2020 02:11 Emnjay808 wrote: Surprising US is third in “per capita” testing. That can’t be good considering testing in my state is VERY LOW imo. They only swab u in a drive through in the park if you exhibit fever like symptoms. What would the testing criteria be for the other counties that fall below? Or I suppose testing kits are still not readily available as wed like. I mean, it's third out of those selected countries.. If you look at https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and scale based on tests/million population, it's in 42nd place. That includes a whole lot of much smaller countries - but you are also behind Russia. A state like New York is way higher up, though. | ||
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TT1
Canada10009 Posts
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/04/14/science.abb5793 would be devastating for the economy | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On April 15 2020 01:16 TT1 wrote: whats going on in the us? it's getting outta control If China were reporting accurate numbers, it would be a good comparison for cases among similar population. I say this regardless about whether the true rates are much higher, slightly higher, about even, or comparably lower. But their stonewalling the international community while reporting, for example, 3300 fatalities total from a population of 1.3 billion (eg Chris Hayes stunned. So charts taking Chinese numbers at face value will always look ridiculous. My best guess is China's is higher, and India's will be when testing gets better. See also NYT from this month: But American intelligence agencies have concluded that the Chinese government itself does not know the extent of the virus and is as blind as the rest of the world. Midlevel bureaucrats in the city of Wuhan, where the virus originated, and elsewhere in China have been lying about infection rates, testing and death counts, fearful that if they report numbers that are too high they will be punished, lose their position or worse, current and former intelligence officials said. Bureaucratic misreporting is a chronic problem for any government, but it has grown worse in China as the Communist leadership has taken a more authoritarian turn in recent years under Mr. Xi. No complete picture of the virus exists anywhere because of factors beyond government suppression, including testing shortages, varying measurement standards and asymptomatic infections that could account for up to one in four coronavirus cases. Iran has obfuscated its struggles with the pandemic. Italy’s death count of more than 13,000, the most worldwide, leaves out people who died outside hospitals. Testing in the United States lags behind other countries. But since January, White House officials have come to view with skepticism the Chinese tallies in particular and asked the C.I.A. and other intelligence agencies to prioritize collection of information on China. Bloomberg News first reported the C.I.A.’s assessment that China was underreporting its virus diagnoses and deaths. Officials played down a revelation about an intelligence report sent last week to the White House, saying that the C.I.A. has for several weeks told White House officials not to trust the numbers that Beijing was handing to the World Health Organization. Testing is very high in the states whose metro areas are the big source of the growth in US numbers. So I'd be more cautious looking at international figures that report official values for states like China, Iran, and North Korea. ![[image loading]](https://zdnet1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2020/04/12/55ad0590-e603-4f80-a55b-19975b554a30/resize/1200xauto/a152f9d27f51b22eac9c7c8949286b54/nyu-decision-tree-for-covid-cases.jpg) NY's biggest statistical study to date finds obesity as the single biggest factor after age (and thus the biggest 'chronic' factor). | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10656 Posts
Kinda hilarious cause the Walmarts in Oahu are still jam packed. You wouldn’t even think there was an issued lockdown. | ||
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TT1
Canada10009 Posts
https://www.sciencealert.com/who-investigates-reports-of-recovered-covid-19-patients-testing-positive-again https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1268582/south-korea-coronavirus-news-covid-19-immunity-reinfections-seoul-death-rates-china | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
On April 15 2020 05:23 TT1 wrote: new report saying social distancing might be needed until 2022: https://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/status/1250110307479011329 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/04/14/science.abb5793 would be devastating for the economy If society just adapts to social distancing, it could be great. If restaurants etc stay open and just reduce staff, impose basic income, tax the rich, the world could move where it needs to anyway. Automation was about to kill these jobs anyway, this is at least a nice way to do it over time. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On April 15 2020 01:19 farvacola wrote: The United States is what is going on in the US. Some states have implemented strict measures, others only half-measures, and yet others have basically done nothing but give basic recommendations. Add in the fact that restrictions on travel between states are close to categorically unconstitutional and you’ve got a recipe for a poor national ‘rona outcome. That's just scratching the surface though. I don't want to get into it because of the politics of it, but the NYT put out a big comprehensive summary a few days ago that outlines just about everything. You can read it for yourself TT1. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-response.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=hinytmynameisben#commentsContainer | ||
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Slydie
1921 Posts
On April 15 2020 02:11 Emnjay808 wrote: Surprising US is third in “per capita” testing. That can’t be good considering testing in my state is VERY LOW imo. They only swab u in a drive through in the park if you exhibit fever like symptoms. What would the testing criteria be for the other counties that fall below? Or I suppose testing kits are still not readily available as wed like. Every country has a very different approach to this. I know in Spain and Italy a lot of patients with milder sympthoms were not tested and just sent home, probably because of capacity problems and that the treatment would not change anyway. IMO, tests per confirmed case should be as monitored as well: Taiwan: 123 (393 cases to 48500 tests) South Korea: 49,7 (10,564 to 527,438 tests) Norway: 19,4 (6,623 to 128,569 tests, among the better western countries!) In that context, the US is not as impressive: 5,01 (610,632 cases to 3,061,195 tests) In this regard, the Asians were clearly much better prepared. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18004 Posts
On April 15 2020 02:19 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: While you can't really compare countries you can still learn from each other. So here are two lessons from Sweden for when your country plans to end their lock down. 1) Protect your elderly. It's getting abundantly clear that this should be priority 1. Our care homes for old people were a shitshow looooooong before this virus due to savings/penny-pinching and greed and all the problems they already had are amplified when corona hits. So it's very important to not be understaffed (you probably want to start over-staffing full-time personal right now) because once staff get sick the staff shortages will cripple everything else. An already high turnover rate with most of the staff being temps will get even worse. This is of course incredibly bad since the risk of getting the virus into the facility increases with every new person. It will also make any attempt on training staff in hygiene routines and how to use protective gear difficult since you get new people all the time. It also makes coordination a mess as people won't have current information due to being new. This means you have confused and sick elderly people walking around more or less unsupervised because you have to few people with to little training and instruction doing more work. So have a lot of people from the start, train them beforehand, test them and make sure they are equipped. Also for the love of god do not trust private companies to handle this shit. Their go to "fix" for anything is to write a memo and have a meeting before dropping it on some temp worker as soon as the press looks away. You can't even rely on them having enough *soap* on hand. 2) Apparently immigrant groups are over represented in numbers of cases/deaths. This could be due to either communication failures early on (not having information in the right language, not reaching out in the channels that the community uses) or social factors (crowded or multi generational living). So keep this in mind and address these issues. In Spain things have really gone to shit in both those situations too. 1) Anecdotal, but my sister-in-law works in an old age home. They had 48 deaths on a population of 164. It's horrific how hard it hits old age homes. It also hit the staff. They have a resident doctor and 2 nurses. All three are sick with Covid. There are many others sick as well, which means those who are will have to do extra shifts on already long hours, probably increasing their risk in the process. There is now no resident health personnel at all, so they rely on a doctor from the hospital, who is obviously overworked with all the Covid cases at the hospital, so rarely comes by. And that is just one of many. The government has admitted they have no idea about the death toll in old age homes. 2) There was a report on Covid cases by neighborhoods of Barcelona and outlying towns. Both infection rate and critical cases correlate highly with average income of the neighborhood. The main hypothesis for infection rate correlating is because they live closer together, and even with all work shut down, most of the jobs that were still done (other than home office) were low income: supermarket work, cleaning, package/postal service, etc. So in addition to having an increased risk from in-house spread they also had a higher risk of catching it at work. | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria818 Posts
On April 15 2020 07:08 TT1 wrote: A bunch of Korean covid patients tested positive again. This could be because of faulty tests but it's obviously gonna be important to see where this leads (could be a re-activation/re-infection). This would offer a glimpse into our future and how we should plan ahead: https://www.sciencealert.com/who-investigates-reports-of-recovered-covid-19-patients-testing-positive-again https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1268582/south-korea-coronavirus-news-covid-19-immunity-reinfections-seoul-death-rates-china I don't know, I read mixed opinion about reinfection. So far, one of WHO's directors thinks some people might not develop antibodies in time to prevent a second infection but it's still unknown. We'll see. Link: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/13/who-officials-say-its-unclear-whether-recovered-coronavirus-patients-are-immune-to-second-infection.html | ||
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