I’m just going off mostly what I read here the past few weeks.
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Emnjay808
United States10625 Posts
I’m just going off mostly what I read here the past few weeks. | ||
Belisarius
Australia6177 Posts
On April 08 2020 07:38 Acrofales wrote: That's like complaining that "flu" is not specific enough. It definitely isn't if you're writing a scientific paper about it, or a report on the specifics of this year's seasonal varieties. But in daily parlance it works perfectly well. And yes, in today's context, we could just call it the virus, but we decided that the Coronavirus added that little but extra specificity that makes it clear enough that we aren't talking about HIV or Ebola, but it's also still clear we aren't talking about just any old Coronavirus, nor even the ones that causes SARS or MERS, but in fact the one that causes COVID-19. Ando I suspect that will be clear enough nomenclature for a while into the future. I mean, since you bring it up, "flu" is not specific enough. People use "flu" to refer to common colds frequently, and this breeds a sense that influenza is minor when it can actually be very serious. Nomenclature is dry and boring but the way that laypeople talk about viruses has real effects. We will see. I think there will be significant long-term confusion. The virus will become endemic so we will be dealing with this for decades, especially as other coronaviruses appear and fade. Again, if the ICTV had thought to give it a pronounceable name, this would not be an issue. | ||
riotjune
United States3357 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28262 Posts
On April 08 2020 08:17 Emnjay808 wrote: What was Sweden’s lockdown protocol? Last I heard everyone was pretty lax there and it seems they don’t have an alarming amount of cases. I’m just going off mostly what I read here the past few weeks. They went for a softer lockdown than other european countries, in particular the other nordic countries, and have 4-10 times the death per capita as norway finland denmark, countries it is natural to compare sweden with. Now, they have some doctor scientists who claimed that this increased exposure during wave 1 is going to give them increased protection from further waves (as well as not harming the economy equally hard, but that hasn't been cited as the primary reason from what I've seen). For all I know there might be some truth to it - however, it's becoming increasingly hard to defend politically because of the development : On march 18th, Norway had 6 deaths and 1500 confirmed cases, Sweden 10 deaths and 1300 confirmed cases, today Norway has 89 deaths and 6000 confirmed cases while Sweden has 591 deaths and 7600 confirmed cases. The previous week has seen Norway increase her death count by between 6 and 13 per day, while Sweden has been above 50 most days, and 113 yesterday - this is a very visible consequence of the differing political choices taken by the two countries. | ||
Raidern
Brazil3811 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On April 08 2020 09:22 Liquid`Drone wrote: They went for a softer lockdown than other european countries, in particular the other nordic countries, and have 4-10 times the death per capita as norway finland denmark, countries it is natural to compare sweden with. Now, they have some doctor scientists who claimed that this increased exposure during wave 1 is going to give them increased protection from further waves (as well as not harming the economy equally hard, but that hasn't been cited as the primary reason from what I've seen). For all I know there might be some truth to it - however, it's becoming increasingly hard to defend politically because of the development : On march 18th, Norway had 6 deaths and 1500 confirmed cases, Sweden 10 deaths and 1300 confirmed cases, today Norway has 89 deaths and 6000 confirmed cases while Sweden has 591 deaths and 7600 confirmed cases. The previous week has seen Norway increase her death count by between 6 and 13 per day, while Sweden has been above 50 most days, and 113 yesterday - this is a very visible consequence of the differing political choices taken by the two countries. In background, what was Norway’s approach? | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28262 Posts
So like, in terms of policy we didn't do much more than other countries (I have yet to see a single person wearing a mask, for one), but I suspect Norwegians were more willing to practice social distancing than people most other places are. There are exceptions of course but overall the city (trondheim, third largest in norway) has been feeling pretty dead for almost a month now. We also closed schools on march 12th, which was slightly earlier than most countries - and I saw that once this happened, everybody started taking it real seriously, that was like the 'oh, it's for real'-message which really influenced people's behavior. Was an update from the national health organization claiming that we had managed to reduce the reproductive rate to 0.7. Schools might open again in the end of april, at least for the youngest (6-9 year olds) kids. | ||
MinscandBoo
252 Posts
It was interesting to see other people's reactions when I told them to stay away or clean the surfaces I touched in the limited interactions I had while under "quarantine". I had to go to the pharmacy and I ordered pizza once. Everyone at the store was skeptical when I told them they should clean the counter and pin pad after I left. and the pizza guy tried to walk up to hand me my pizza despite the online instructions I gave to leave it in my truck bed. I got a "dude I'm not gonna get you sick" kinda bemused look from him when I asked him to stop and leave it there as he walked over. I guess the attitude for a lot of people is that anyone worried about the matter is a crazy nutter. Some of them get pretty OCD about it I'll admit but anyway... I ramble on. I feel like this thread has veered very far from what manifesto envisioned when he started it. | ||
ThatCleanBurn
8 Posts
It’s why I find it hilarious when people say that the coronavirus is just a flu as if that’s a positive. I have to ask people saying that if they’ve ever got an honest to god flu before. As far as different types of flus go, I know two people who got swine flu and it took them an exceptionally long time to feel normal. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17186 Posts
On April 08 2020 12:05 Liquid`Drone wrote: closed schools and non-essential business and told people to practice social distancing, grocery stores have antibac to wash your hands.. we have a very high testing rate per capita, but when I myself suspected that I had it, I asked a doctor friend what to do and he said stay home, in a different room from wife, for 1 week until after symptoms go away, but without going to the doctor myself unless my condition worsened. So like, in terms of policy we didn't do much more than other countries (I have yet to see a single person wearing a mask, for one), but I suspect Norwegians were more willing to practice social distancing than people most other places are. There are exceptions of course but overall the city (trondheim, third largest in norway) has been feeling pretty dead for almost a month now. We also closed schools on march 12th, which was slightly earlier than most countries - and I saw that once this happened, everybody started taking it real seriously, that was like the 'oh, it's for real'-message which really influenced people's behavior. Was an update from the national health organization claiming that we had managed to reduce the reproductive rate to 0.7. Schools might open again in the end of april, at least for the youngest (6-9 year olds) kids. I've actually been wondering how population density plays into this. Norway has 15 people per square km. Seems that in most of Norway, social distancing should be significantly easier than in, for instance, Germany, with an average 240 people per sqkm. Cities are, of course, cities, but even then, Oslo has about 1m people who live squashed together, whereas a city like Paris has 10 times that. Now of course, in the comparison with Sweden this is all more equal, and a policy to policy comparison makes sense. | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
On April 08 2020 09:22 Liquid`Drone wrote: They went for a softer lockdown than other european countries, in particular the other nordic countries, and have 4-10 times the death per capita as norway finland denmark, countries it is natural to compare sweden with. That's not really accurate. Sweden has 59 deaths per million inhabitants while Denmark has 39. And it is important to note here that we don't know where either country will end up. Denmark is yet to start opening up the country and according to Folkhälsomyndigheten the number of deaths per day here have already been declining the last days. The rising numbers are because of a lag in the statistics. (The source for this is the daily press conference yesterday.) Admittedly, if this is a real trend or only temporary is yet to be seen. Finland and Norway are also very different from Sweden in some key aspects. Finland's crisis preparation turned out to be vastly superior to Sweden's (the source is in Swedish) so they could afford to close their border's and still have critical medical supplies. We couldn't possibly shut the country down in the same way. Norway is the richest country in the world and can probably afford to take measure's other countries can't. When Trump starts talking about Sweden now I think it is because he wants to spin this situation in a new way for himself. He knows he will be criticized for being unprepared and for creating an anti-science environment around him - if he can paint a picture of Sweden as being more relaxed and careless in this situation he will by comparison appear as less incompetent. But it should be noted that Sweden's situation is this manageable because of an efficient disease tracking early on and because of sensible measures being taken in time. The US looks like it's heading for disaster by comparison. | ||
whaski
Finland575 Posts
On April 08 2020 16:16 Elroi wrote: That's not really accurate. Sweden has 59 deaths per million inhabitants while Denmark has 39. And it is important to note here that we don't know where either country will end up. Denmark is yet to start opening up the country and according to Folkhälsomyndigheten the number of deaths per day here have already been declining the last days. The rising numbers are because of a lag in the statistics. (The source for this is the daily press conference yesterday.) Admittedly, if this is a real trend or only temporary is yet to be seen. Finland and Norway are also very different from Sweden in some key aspects. Finland's crisis preparation turned out to be vastly superior to Sweden's (the source is in Swedish) so they could afford to close their border's and still have critical medical supplies. We couldn't possibly shut the country down in the same way. Norway is the richest country in the world and can probably afford to take measure's other countries can't. When Trump starts talking about Sweden now I think it is because he wants to spin this situation in a new way for himself. He knows he will be criticized for being unprepared and for creating an anti-science environment around him - if he can paint a picture of Sweden as being more relaxed and careless in this situation he will by comparison appear as less incompetent. But it should be noted that Sweden's situation is this manageable because of an efficient disease tracking early on and because of sensible measures being taken in time. The US looks like it's heading for disaster by comparison. Well, it turned out our preparation was not that great and supplies are now running out https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000006467657.html (its finnish, update happens probably later). We are taking huge economical hit and our economy has been in quite fragile state for long. Hopefully we can ease mesures next month... | ||
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2351 Posts
On April 08 2020 09:22 Liquid`Drone wrote: They went for a softer lockdown than other european countries, in particular the other nordic countries, and have 4-10 times the death per capita as norway finland denmark, countries it is natural to compare sweden with. Now, they have some doctor scientists who claimed that this increased exposure during wave 1 is going to give them increased protection from further waves (as well as not harming the economy equally hard, but that hasn't been cited as the primary reason from what I've seen). For all I know there might be some truth to it - however, it's becoming increasingly hard to defend politically because of the development : On march 18th, Norway had 6 deaths and 1500 confirmed cases, Sweden 10 deaths and 1300 confirmed cases, today Norway has 89 deaths and 6000 confirmed cases while Sweden has 591 deaths and 7600 confirmed cases. The previous week has seen Norway increase her death count by between 6 and 13 per day, while Sweden has been above 50 most days, and 113 yesterday - this is a very visible consequence of the differing political choices taken by the two countries. We will se in the end I guess. At the moment most Swedes are content with our decision and health care is not overloaded yet. It did get into the care system for older people which is very bad. If you want to draw any lesson from us focus on that. And don't trust daily numbers to much they are weird due to reporting (just compare weekends to Mondays). Also 7500 people a month die in Sweden and as far as I have heard there hasn't been a significant difference in comparison to the norm. | ||
Yurie
11533 Posts
On March 27 2020 19:00 Yurie wrote: Fever broke after 1 day and never climbed more than 1-1.5C above normal. We are not allowed to work and get paid 92.5% salary for the next two weeks, following that 2-day week. These deals become a bit strange when you could do your job from home and have been for 2 weeks. The government forcing the company to stop us from working to get the bail out becomes a bit odd then. Having the requirement of working from home or not working at all seems like it would be a better way to spend the money. Though I guess all the companies making a profit would go for it then as well. Still got a light cough 2 weeks later. Can't really exercise and have to sleep with a pillow to breathe properly, normally do without. So it keeps being there a long while later, assume I am still contagious but require buying of food so still have to go out for that. As far as I know there is no available testing here so can't be sure if it was the flu or this. | ||
Acrofales
Spain17186 Posts
On April 08 2020 16:37 Yurie wrote: Still got a light cough 2 weeks later. Can't really exercise and have to sleep with a pillow to breathe properly, normally do without. So it keeps being there a long while later, assume I am still contagious but require buying of food so still have to go out for that. As far as I know there is no available testing here so can't be sure if it was the flu or this. Do you have food delivery in your town? When I go to the supermarket here (I live 50 meters away), there are usually about 10 real clients. There are also about 30 employees running around with lists from their online shopping platform. The supermarket always had their web store, but use was pretty low. It might be worth checking out if any of the stores near you have that. If not, then deliveroo, and presumably other food delivery services sometimes offer shopping services in some locations too. | ||
SC-Shield
Bulgaria766 Posts
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Yurie
11533 Posts
On April 08 2020 16:54 Acrofales wrote: Do you have food delivery in your town? When I go to the supermarket here (I live 50 meters away), there are usually about 10 real clients. There are also about 30 employees running around with lists from their online shopping platform. The supermarket always had their web store, but use was pretty low. It might be worth checking out if any of the stores near you have that. If not, then deliveroo, and presumably other food delivery services sometimes offer shopping services in some locations too. There is food delivery. I am just too much old gen to even think about it existing without prompting. Always lived within walking distance of a store since the online order thing started up. | ||
Harris1st
Germany6140 Posts
On April 08 2020 07:31 Zambrah wrote: I think its more like saying, "that guy" we all know who that guy is in this context even if we aren't using his first or last name. People will always be confused about science, my favorite example will always be that dihydrogen monoxide scare that freaked dumb people out. That stuff is dangerous mate! Do you know how many people die each year because of it??? + Show Spoiler + | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28262 Posts
On April 08 2020 16:16 Elroi wrote: That's not really accurate. Sweden has 59 deaths per million inhabitants while Denmark has 39. And it is important to note here that we don't know where either country will end up. Denmark is yet to start opening up the country and according to Folkhälsomyndigheten the number of deaths per day here have already been declining the last days. The rising numbers are because of a lag in the statistics. (The source for this is the daily press conference yesterday.) Admittedly, if this is a real trend or only temporary is yet to be seen. Finland and Norway are also very different from Sweden in some key aspects. Finland's crisis preparation turned out to be vastly superior to Sweden's (the source is in Swedish) so they could afford to close their border's and still have critical medical supplies. We couldn't possibly shut the country down in the same way. Norway is the richest country in the world and can probably afford to take measure's other countries can't. When Trump starts talking about Sweden now I think it is because he wants to spin this situation in a new way for himself. He knows he will be criticized for being unprepared and for creating an anti-science environment around him - if he can paint a picture of Sweden as being more relaxed and careless in this situation he will by comparison appear as less incompetent. But it should be noted that Sweden's situation is this manageable because of an efficient disease tracking early on and because of sensible measures being taken in time. The US looks like it's heading for disaster by comparison. Ya my bad. Wrote it quickly before going to bed and didnt look up denmark, pretty sloppy on my behalf. :p Acrofales, I think population density is a very significant factor. And it might even be a partial factor for Norway vs Sweden - Stockholm is like 33% more densely populated than Oslo is, and I think the capital cities are the epicenters of the disease in both our countries. I also think we have a slightly bigger portion living in rural areas than Sweden does. But this is certainly a possible explanation for some of the differences between continental Europe and norway+sweden+finland. (Denmark is more like continental Europe in this regard though, it is far more densely populated. ) I think the metric of 'trust in government' is important too, though. Norway performs extremely well there, and when we were told to stay home and practice social distancing, I believe a bigger portion of our population listened, than what the case is for most western countries. | ||
Mohdoo
United States15082 Posts
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