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On April 04 2020 02:20 Kipsate wrote: There is a chance that the measures that are being taken are too extreme, the thing is: we dont know. So its best to play it on the safe side. It buys us crucial time to gather data, maybe in a year or so we will find out some measures were wildly ineffictive and unnecesary as we discover more about the virus.
But then we will know, now we dont know for sure, to gamble it on "its probably not that bad or not worth the economic cost" is a tough one which may cost a lot of lives.
Time and learnings is the most crucial thing that these measures buy us. Time for the health system to scale up and have it be more managable, time for us to learn what measures work, time for us to look for medicine or treatments.
So yeah maybe some people are right and some measures are ineffective and are too much, but fuck me there is no way in hell im taking that gamble.
That's not exactly what's at stake though. There is no "erring on the side of caution" here, at least according to the Swedish health officials. It is not simply economy vs saving lives (even though that is a very difficult discussion in its own right). The Swedish CDC argues that this infection is going to take so much time that lock down measures are better saved for when they are the most effective. No country could stay in lock down until next winter, for example. That would mean that very strict countries might be forced to lessen their restrictions when they would really need to tighten them. The head of the Swedish version of CDC explains it in this video (but disregard the sensationalist title):
The compliance with the state shelter in place order has been so bad here that the parks authority is removing basketball hoops and other sports fixtures from local parks after having already closed all playgrounds a week ago. State and local parks may be closed outright before long.
On April 04 2020 07:07 farvacola wrote: The compliance with the state shelter in place order has been so bad here that the parks authority is removing basketball hoops and other sports fixtures from local parks after having already closed all playgrounds a week ago. State and local parks may be closed ought before long.
Toronto, Canada here. People have been ripping up tape around play structures, removing fences to gain access to shuttered parks, gathering in large groups on city property, etc. Impossible to control this kinda activity unless enforcement is heavy. Police and city staff are now mobilizing to stop this as best they can.
Projections were just announced for our province and they estimate 3-15 thousand deaths over the entire course of the pandemic without stronger measures. That's just this province. A reporter asked what that meant in terms of the duration of the lockdown and doctor evaded the question. I'm guessing they projected thinking lockdown was much longer than any of us is expecting.
On April 04 2020 07:07 farvacola wrote: The compliance with the state shelter in place order has been so bad here that the parks authority is removing basketball hoops and other sports fixtures from local parks after having already closed all playgrounds a week ago. State and local parks may be closed ought before long.
Toronto, Canada here. People have been ripping up tape around play structures, removing fences to gain access to shuttered parks, gathering in large groups on city property, etc. Impossible to control this kinda activity unless enforcement is heavy. Police and city staff are now mobilizing to stop this as best they can.
Projections were just announced for our province and they estimate 3-15 thousand deaths over the entire course of the pandemic without stronger measures. That's just this province. A reporter asked what that meant in terms of the duration of the lockdown and doctor evaded the question. I'm guessing they projected thinking lockdown was much longer than any of us is expecting.
If the health professionals whose salary way pay can't be honest with us, just fuck them. Ugh, it's been two weeks with stronger measures in Canada and I'm so triggered. They are supposed to give us objective information and let us act on that information, not to treat citizen as sheep. I have zero faith in these people.
Times like these I wish healthcare was privatized in Canada, so that the government doesn't have an excuse to say what we can and can't do.
I really dislike this invisible hand of removing basketball hoops for example. Punish the crime, don't alter the environment to force people to act a certain way. The rule of law is the foundation, not controlling people through these implicit measures - it gives the impression of no respect for people.
On April 04 2020 07:07 farvacola wrote: The compliance with the state shelter in place order has been so bad here that the parks authority is removing basketball hoops and other sports fixtures from local parks after having already closed all playgrounds a week ago. State and local parks may be closed ought before long.
Toronto, Canada here. People have been ripping up tape around play structures, removing fences to gain access to shuttered parks, gathering in large groups on city property, etc. Impossible to control this kinda activity unless enforcement is heavy. Police and city staff are now mobilizing to stop this as best they can.
Projections were just announced for our province and they estimate 3-15 thousand deaths over the entire course of the pandemic without stronger measures. That's just this province. A reporter asked what that meant in terms of the duration of the lockdown and doctor evaded the question. I'm guessing they projected thinking lockdown was much longer than any of us is expecting.
If the health professionals whose salary way pay can't be honest with us, just fuck them. Ugh, it's been two weeks with stronger measures in Canada and I'm so triggered. They are supposed to give us objective information and let us act on that information, not to treat citizen as sheep. I have zero faith in these people.
Times like these I wish healthcare was privatized in Canada, so that the government doesn't have an excuse to say what we can and can't do.
They don't know when the confinement will stop, no one know, it's a political decision everywhere, supported by medical expertise but it's a political decision it will be taken in due time and we wont know until it happen. Having private health doesn't matter, there's no State that doesn't monitor public health.
The states have been very clear that they in no way want people to act like they deemed best according to "objective" information (which no one really has, it's a global crisis after all). But buckle in because there's probably weeks of this in front of us.
On April 04 2020 07:07 farvacola wrote: The compliance with the state shelter in place order has been so bad here that the parks authority is removing basketball hoops and other sports fixtures from local parks after having already closed all playgrounds a week ago. State and local parks may be closed ought before long.
Toronto, Canada here. People have been ripping up tape around play structures, removing fences to gain access to shuttered parks, gathering in large groups on city property, etc. Impossible to control this kinda activity unless enforcement is heavy. Police and city staff are now mobilizing to stop this as best they can.
Projections were just announced for our province and they estimate 3-15 thousand deaths over the entire course of the pandemic without stronger measures. That's just this province. A reporter asked what that meant in terms of the duration of the lockdown and doctor evaded the question. I'm guessing they projected thinking lockdown was much longer than any of us is expecting.
If the health professionals whose salary way pay can't be honest with us, just fuck them. Ugh, it's been two weeks with stronger measures in Canada and I'm so triggered. They are supposed to give us objective information and let us act on that information, not to treat citizen as sheep. I have zero faith in these people.
Times like these I wish healthcare was privatized in Canada, so that the government doesn't have an excuse to say what we can and can't do.
They don't know when the confinement will stop, no one know, it's a political decision everywhere, supported by medical expertive but it's a political decision it will be taken in due time and we wont know until it happen. Having private health dosen't matter, there's no State that dosen't monitor public health.
The states have been very clear that they in no way want people to act like they deamed best according to "objective" information (which no one really has, it's a global crisis after all).
Well if the citizens don't want a quarantine, then we shouldn't have a quarantine, I'm under the impression that is how it works in a democracy. In many places the the majority of people support it, but if they didn't, the public health authorities have no right to make these decisions.
Anyway, I feel like there's a lot of misinformation, and lack of sincerity, particularly in Canada. Not sure about the Europe, but I feel the US has been a lot more transparent about what the current mindset is. It's not fair when the government is thinking one thing, but telling the public another - even if in their eyes it's for the public good.
On April 04 2020 07:07 farvacola wrote: The compliance with the state shelter in place order has been so bad here that the parks authority is removing basketball hoops and other sports fixtures from local parks after having already closed all playgrounds a week ago. State and local parks may be closed ought before long.
Toronto, Canada here. People have been ripping up tape around play structures, removing fences to gain access to shuttered parks, gathering in large groups on city property, etc. Impossible to control this kinda activity unless enforcement is heavy. Police and city staff are now mobilizing to stop this as best they can.
Projections were just announced for our province and they estimate 3-15 thousand deaths over the entire course of the pandemic without stronger measures. That's just this province. A reporter asked what that meant in terms of the duration of the lockdown and doctor evaded the question. I'm guessing they projected thinking lockdown was much longer than any of us is expecting.
If the health professionals whose salary way pay can't be honest with us, just fuck them. Ugh, it's been two weeks with stronger measures in Canada and I'm so triggered. They are supposed to give us objective information and let us act on that information, not to treat citizen as sheep. I have zero faith in these people.
Times like these I wish healthcare was privatized in Canada, so that the government doesn't have an excuse to say what we can and can't do.
They don't know when the confinement will stop, no one know, it's a political decision everywhere, supported by medical expertive but it's a political decision it will be taken in due time and we wont know until it happen. Having private health dosen't matter, there's no State that dosen't monitor public health.
The states have been very clear that they in no way want people to act like they deamed best according to "objective" information (which no one really has, it's a global crisis after all).
Well if the citizens don't want a quarantine, then we shouldn't have a quarantine, I'm under the impression that is how it works in a democracy. In many places the the majority of people support it, but if they didn't, the public health authorities have no right to make these decisions.
Anyway, I feel like there's a lot of misinformation, and lack of sincerity, particularly in Canada. Not sure about the Europe, but I feel the US has been a lot more transparent about what the current mindset is. It's not fair when the government is thinking one thing, but telling the public another - even if in their eyes it's for the public good.
I think you're in the minority here.
It's severely affected my family. My parents have been running a restaurant for nearly 30 years now, and closed mid-March because of this, because it is the right thing to do. There's no point trying to keep going if you lose your health in the process. If it blows over in the next month or so, the might reopen but if it drags on another month or two, it closes permanently. We all still agree that the government is taking the right steps
People who don't take this seriously and take steps to minimize the impact on the population are what keep the measures in place longer. Yeah, the chances of any idiot actually catching it might be 1/1000 interactions or stupid shit like insisting on standing closer to people, but that adds up on a population level to a significant spread rate.
On April 04 2020 07:07 farvacola wrote: The compliance with the state shelter in place order has been so bad here that the parks authority is removing basketball hoops and other sports fixtures from local parks after having already closed all playgrounds a week ago. State and local parks may be closed outright before long.
Was out today and noticed a gate across a trail had been broken open (parks have been closed), a handful of gen pop people wearing surgeon style masks (more cashiers in ppe), mentioned in the politics thread that some local gun shops are open despite not being on the essential service list from our gov, some more signage generally and Home Depot has implemented social distancing cues like taped out places in line and more curbside pick-up options. Starbucks lines were wrapped around the blocks they were on. Gas station added hand sanitizer stations near the pumps (and had the window cleaner squeegee thing and fluid for the first time in years)
So a mixed bag here in WA imo. Our typical social distance was already about 3-4 ft in general (except in lines) so most people just added a bit more range to that. People from outside the PNW stick out even more because theirs is usually considerably less in my experience so far (more unnecessary conversation in proximity too).
Single most unusual thing I saw was a church doing "drive through prayers".
I'm glad to see that someone professional and the Swedish govt. shares my view that these measures are disproportionate and the risk/reward won't pay off. Though I wouldn't be surprised if Sweden ends up with a lockdown anyway. UK initially also wanted to just tank it.
Plus so many measures against privacy, physical cash are being enforced on the back of this thing almost everywhere (in some supermarkets they discourage you from paying with cash) and more debt is being issued by countries that I cannot help but think this issue is abused to change laws stealthily and quietly bail out companies while at the same time there seems to be a financial crisis that is worsened for individuals by the way the virus is being handled.
Most employers will have a good excuse for the layoffs declaring force majeure and as usual the underlying issues slipped away from public perception. Of those I'd name unaccountability for executive positions and abuse of public funding for their own advantage, provided by unaccountable positions in central banks.
I hope I will be proven wrong but if not, it's not like I expect anyone to complain about it, mostly like now. As long as most are still fine economically, complacency will persist. Here, have 1000 bucks while we flood everyone else with trillions.
People complaining about the lockdowns are just trying to force a self-fulfilling prophecy. Now we’re stuck constantly moving goalposts.
Rather than take it extremely seriously and ramp things up immediately like Singapore or South Korea, the world is ending up like Japan where the initial belief was that they shouldn’t do anything because of the economy/Olympics and that the coronavirus was no worse than your standard flu.
Except now Japan can’t do anything to halt the spread because it’s clear that the spread is too virulent at this point and there’s nothing to do except for complete lockdowns for long periods of time or sacrificing the population for the economy. Except that isn’t going to work either because people don’t want to expose themselves to unneeded illnesses and any form of industry that benefits from tourism and incidental traffic will still be on life support.
They could have avoided this if they actually did something initially but we listened to people against lockdowns to protect the economy and their belief that this was just a weaker flu. Now more people are going to get sick/die and the economy is going to get harder than it would if strict measures were put in place faster. Fortunately for Japan, they’re not unique in this brain dead decision making as most of West is following the exact same moves despite knowing about the coronavirus for months.
The fact of the matter is re-opening everything isn’t going to resuscitate the economy. People aren’t spending, they aren’t working and people are trying to hunker down even if you go out and tell everyone to spend time at their local cafe. Life isn’t going back to normal even if a proper vaccine with no side effects and 100% effectiveness is found overnight. The fact the anti-lockdown crew can’t comprehend this is amazing considering how much they like to worship the economy. Little hard for me to take what they say seriously when they got all of us into this mess in the first place.
My University released a statement about why they needed to move students out of some of the dorms they placed to keep open. They decided to use a recreation facility as an alternate care facility for the local hospital and use the dorm I was living in as housing for the health care workers.
That actually made me feel really happy, that there's coordination between the hospital and the school, and that cutting costs wasn't the reason they changed from their original plan. A good day, and hopefully this move will be mirrored by other college towns preparing for similar caseloads.
On April 04 2020 10:11 ThatCleanBurn wrote: People complaining about the lockdowns are just trying to force a self-fulfilling prophecy. Now we’re stuck constantly moving goalposts.
Rather than take it extremely seriously and ramp things up immediately like Singapore or South Korea, the world is ending up like Japan where the initial belief was that they shouldn’t do anything because of the economy/Olympics and that the coronavirus was no worse than your standard flu.
Except now Japan can’t do anything to halt the spread because it’s clear that the spread is too virulent at this point and there’s nothing to do except for complete lockdowns for long periods of time or sacrificing the population for the economy. They could have avoided this if they actually did something initially but we listened to people against lockdowns to protect the economy and their belief that this was just a weaker flu.
The fact of the matter is re-opening everything isn’t going to resuscitate the economy. People aren’t spending, they aren’t working and people are trying to hunker down even if you go out and tell everyone to spend time at their local cafe. Life isn’t going back to normal even if a proper vaccine with no side effects and 100% effectiveness is found overnight.
What do you mean by 'sacrificing the population'? Latest numbers from Japan are 2617 conf. cases and 65 deaths (WHO sitreps as usual). So if we become like Japan then it seems we have done a good job. Also you can't sacrifice people for the economy that are more likely not in an age to be a part of it, but those are the ones at risk, so you just tell them to stay at home.
People who already went through the disease and are confirmed non-infectious afterwards shouldn't be forced to stay at home. That's just rational. Give them a document and lift their restrictions. If they have immunity they shouldn't even have to wear a mask.
On April 04 2020 10:11 ThatCleanBurn wrote: People complaining about the lockdowns are just trying to force a self-fulfilling prophecy. Now we’re stuck constantly moving goalposts.
Rather than take it extremely seriously and ramp things up immediately like Singapore or South Korea, the world is ending up like Japan where the initial belief was that they shouldn’t do anything because of the economy/Olympics and that the coronavirus was no worse than your standard flu.
Except now Japan can’t do anything to halt the spread because it’s clear that the spread is too virulent at this point and there’s nothing to do except for complete lockdowns for long periods of time or sacrificing the population for the economy. They could have avoided this if they actually did something initially but we listened to people against lockdowns to protect the economy and their belief that this was just a weaker flu.
The fact of the matter is re-opening everything isn’t going to resuscitate the economy. People aren’t spending, they aren’t working and people are trying to hunker down even if you go out and tell everyone to spend time at their local cafe. Life isn’t going back to normal even if a proper vaccine with no side effects and 100% effectiveness is found overnight.
What do you mean by 'sacrificing the population'? Latest numbers from Japan are 2617 conf. cases and 65 deaths (WHO sitreps as usual). So if we become like Japan then it seems we have done a good job. Also you can't sacrifice people for the economy that are more likely not in an age to be a part of it, but those are the ones at risk, so you just tell them to stay at home.
People who already went through the disease and are confirmed non-infectious afterwards shouldn't be forced to stay at home. That's just rational. Give them a document and lift their restrictions. If they have immunity they shouldn't even have to wear a mask.
Japan’s situation is significantly worse than what they’re reporting because they’re just not testing people and/or reporting it. They tried to suppress it to save face, as it normally is the case over there, but it’s exceedingly clear that the spread is all over the place.
The government can’t hide it anymore since the time Ken Shimura passed away. Neither can Osaka or Tokyo, the economy is toast and re-opening everything isn’t going to do shit all because there’s no confidence in the government’s ability to keep people healthy when they’re clearly more concerned about keeping the economy afloat than keeping people healthy.
Fortunately for Japan they all wear masks. But there’s tonnes of people, especially in the restaurant sector, who all have symptoms. And I can guarantee the case + death rate is going to spike in a months time as pressure ramps up on Abe’s government to get their heads out of the sand and actually test people.
And yes, you’re still sacrificing people to the economy because people who get sick still get sick and may die because of complications or overwhelmed health infrastructure. Do you people even know what a flu, which is not a cold, even feels like?
Edit: As for Japan’s coronavirus numbers, they’re past 3000 excluding numbers from the cruise ship with 357 found positive. And the Japanese government is still dragging their heels with testing because they were desperate to host the Olympics in 2020 and stonewalled everything for the economy. But they are not unique in this sort of mentality (don’t disrupt the economy, this is just a weaker flu), the entire West followed the same thought until community spread became so overwhelming that it was clear that this wasn’t just an ordinary flu.
On April 04 2020 07:07 farvacola wrote: The compliance with the state shelter in place order has been so bad here that the parks authority is removing basketball hoops and other sports fixtures from local parks after having already closed all playgrounds a week ago. State and local parks may be closed ought before long.
Toronto, Canada here. People have been ripping up tape around play structures, removing fences to gain access to shuttered parks, gathering in large groups on city property, etc. Impossible to control this kinda activity unless enforcement is heavy. Police and city staff are now mobilizing to stop this as best they can.
Projections were just announced for our province and they estimate 3-15 thousand deaths over the entire course of the pandemic without stronger measures. That's just this province. A reporter asked what that meant in terms of the duration of the lockdown and doctor evaded the question. I'm guessing they projected thinking lockdown was much longer than any of us is expecting.
If the health professionals whose salary way pay can't be honest with us, just fuck them. Ugh, it's been two weeks with stronger measures in Canada and I'm so triggered. They are supposed to give us objective information and let us act on that information, not to treat citizen as sheep. I have zero faith in these people.
Times like these I wish healthcare was privatized in Canada, so that the government doesn't have an excuse to say what we can and can't do.
They don't know when the confinement will stop, no one know, it's a political decision everywhere, supported by medical expertive but it's a political decision it will be taken in due time and we wont know until it happen. Having private health dosen't matter, there's no State that dosen't monitor public health.
The states have been very clear that they in no way want people to act like they deamed best according to "objective" information (which no one really has, it's a global crisis after all).
Well if the citizens don't want a quarantine, then we shouldn't have a quarantine, I'm under the impression that is how it works in a democracy. In many places the the majority of people support it, but if they didn't, the public health authorities have no right to make these decisions.
Anyway, I feel like there's a lot of misinformation, and lack of sincerity, particularly in Canada. Not sure about the Europe, but I feel the US has been a lot more transparent about what the current mindset is. It's not fair when the government is thinking one thing, but telling the public another - even if in their eyes it's for the public good.
If there was a vote and severe lockdown measures won do you think people should comply?
On April 04 2020 10:11 ThatCleanBurn wrote: People complaining about the lockdowns are just trying to force a self-fulfilling prophecy. Now we’re stuck constantly moving goalposts.
Rather than take it extremely seriously and ramp things up immediately like Singapore or South Korea, the world is ending up like Japan where the initial belief was that they shouldn’t do anything because of the economy/Olympics and that the coronavirus was no worse than your standard flu.
Except now Japan can’t do anything to halt the spread because it’s clear that the spread is too virulent at this point and there’s nothing to do except for complete lockdowns for long periods of time or sacrificing the population for the economy. They could have avoided this if they actually did something initially but we listened to people against lockdowns to protect the economy and their belief that this was just a weaker flu.
The fact of the matter is re-opening everything isn’t going to resuscitate the economy. People aren’t spending, they aren’t working and people are trying to hunker down even if you go out and tell everyone to spend time at their local cafe. Life isn’t going back to normal even if a proper vaccine with no side effects and 100% effectiveness is found overnight.
What do you mean by 'sacrificing the population'? Latest numbers from Japan are 2617 conf. cases and 65 deaths (WHO sitreps as usual). So if we become like Japan then it seems we have done a good job. Also you can't sacrifice people for the economy that are more likely not in an age to be a part of it, but those are the ones at risk, so you just tell them to stay at home.
People who already went through the disease and are confirmed non-infectious afterwards shouldn't be forced to stay at home. That's just rational. Give them a document and lift their restrictions. If they have immunity they shouldn't even have to wear a mask.
Japan’s situation is significantly worse than what they’re reporting because they’re just not testing people and/or reporting it. They tried to suppress it to save face, as it normally is the case over there, but it’s exceedingly clear that the spread is all over the place.
The government can’t hide it anymore since the time Ken Shimura passed away. Neither can Osaka or Tokyo, the economy is toast and re-opening everything isn’t going to do shit all because there’s no confidence in the government’s ability to keep people healthy when they’re clearly more concerned about keeping the economy afloat than keeping people healthy.
Fortunately for Japan they all wear masks. But there’s tonnes of people, especially in the restaurant sector, who all have symptoms. And I can guarantee the case + death rate is going to spike in a months time as pressure ramps up on Abe’s government to get their heads out of the sand and actually test people.
And yes, you’re still sacrificing people to the economy because people who get sick still get sick and may die because of complications or overwhelmed health infrastructure. Do you people even know what a flu, which is not a cold, even feels like?
We'll see how it turns out with the death rate. I still think the effects of the virus are overestimated. Confirmed numbers are from people who show up with severe enough symptoms to be tested, sometimes tests are unavailable or too expensive, and there's no guarantees that the underlying causes of death aren't mistaken for a death from pneumonia, which would have plenty of fluid in the lungs.
It's funny though, in January when the first reports from China popped up on twitter with people collapsing in the street or seizing up, I was expecting something really bad and prepared + warned relatives abroad but nobody gave a shit. Now that we're in the middle of it, feels like encouraged mass hysteria to me.
The really isn't that serious. But that's because this shit isn't SARS 1.0. Can your imagine 2.0 with its predecessor's death rate? Hell on Earth in comparison. The fact that this thing can be so relatively non-lethal, yet capable of causing the health care havoc, with that slight increase in transmissibility compared to the flu, is quite frankly incredible.
On April 04 2020 11:32 EllisDee wrote: The really isn't that serious. But that's because this shit isn't SARS 1.0. Can your imagine 2.0 with its predecessor's death rate? Hell on Earth in comparison. The fact that this thing can be so relatively non-lethal, yet capable of causing the health care havoc, with that slight increase in transmissibility compared to the flu, is quite frankly incredible.
That's part of why it's so devastating. Part of why SARS 1.0 died out is because it killed so many of the people that got it.
On April 04 2020 07:07 farvacola wrote: The compliance with the state shelter in place order has been so bad here that the parks authority is removing basketball hoops and other sports fixtures from local parks after having already closed all playgrounds a week ago. State and local parks may be closed ought before long.
Toronto, Canada here. People have been ripping up tape around play structures, removing fences to gain access to shuttered parks, gathering in large groups on city property, etc. Impossible to control this kinda activity unless enforcement is heavy. Police and city staff are now mobilizing to stop this as best they can.
Projections were just announced for our province and they estimate 3-15 thousand deaths over the entire course of the pandemic without stronger measures. That's just this province. A reporter asked what that meant in terms of the duration of the lockdown and doctor evaded the question. I'm guessing they projected thinking lockdown was much longer than any of us is expecting.
If the health professionals whose salary way pay can't be honest with us, just fuck them. Ugh, it's been two weeks with stronger measures in Canada and I'm so triggered. They are supposed to give us objective information and let us act on that information, not to treat citizen as sheep. I have zero faith in these people.
Times like these I wish healthcare was privatized in Canada, so that the government doesn't have an excuse to say what we can and can't do.
They don't know when the confinement will stop, no one know, it's a political decision everywhere, supported by medical expertive but it's a political decision it will be taken in due time and we wont know until it happen. Having private health dosen't matter, there's no State that dosen't monitor public health.
The states have been very clear that they in no way want people to act like they deamed best according to "objective" information (which no one really has, it's a global crisis after all).
Well if the citizens don't want a quarantine, then we shouldn't have a quarantine, I'm under the impression that is how it works in a democracy. In many places the the majority of people support it, but if they didn't, the public health authorities have no right to make these decisions.
Anyway, I feel like there's a lot of misinformation, and lack of sincerity, particularly in Canada. Not sure about the Europe, but I feel the US has been a lot more transparent about what the current mindset is. It's not fair when the government is thinking one thing, but telling the public another - even if in their eyes it's for the public good.
If there was a vote and severe lockdown measures won do you think people should comply?
In fact, let's go a step further; if people voted in a referendum for 24/7 surveillance of everybody and enforced quarantine for anybody who had been in touch with anybody else who was likely infected (the China measure), would you then shrug and say "oh well, majority rules?"
Oh, and just to correct the initial premise, in a democracy, the government doesn't have an obligation to do what the majority want. But this is definitely the wrong thread to discuss the philosophy of politics.
EPT
