Alt-right terminology / symbolism - Page 7

On November 03 2019 01:43 Xxio wrote:
I searched for an objective description of the alt-right and found this article by Oxford Research Group: https://www.oxfordresearchgroup.org.uk/blog/the-alt-right-an-introduction-part-i. I'm glad for the dry, academic analysis. Does anyone have good resources for understanding what the alt-right is? They seem kind of like the antifa of the other side of the spectrum, both being militant and amorphous.

On November 03 2019 16:24 IgnE wrote:


No I disagree. There have been plenty of productive, socially well-adjusted people who are sports fans for decades and decades before computer games. Games, on the other hand, encourage a withdrawal from society (apathy towards works, towards hobbies that are not virtual, towards meeting new people, etc.) in a way that fandom does not.

On November 03 2019 16:24 IgnE wrote:


No I disagree. There have been plenty of productive, socially well-adjusted people who are sports fans for decades and decades before computer games. Games, on the other hand, encourage a withdrawal from society (apathy towards works, towards hobbies that are not virtual, towards meeting new people, etc.) in a way that fandom does not.

On November 03 2019 02:57 Danglars wrote:

I just need to know you're serious when you called JimmyJRaynor
Then you're well underestimating the 25-45% of far right parties. Taking JJR as somebody basically far right, I'd say far right parties number in the 60%+ range. This wouldn't be the first time I thought your characterizations are profoundly silly.


First things first: many people mean "alt-right" in purely terms of political games. Label your opposition alt-right, act outraged or shocked that normal people support them or that they're allowed a voice on TV and events, and (hopefully) reap more political power. Secondly, more people won't investigate their views or policies because they're this alt-right boogeyman unworthy of much attention.

Now this discussion can continue after removing the alt-right-as-political-weapon, because there are some real people in the world holding views that are accurately described as alt-right. From the article, thoughts and where I stand on them:

1. A key defining trait of the “alt-right” is identitarianism, focused specifically on supporting the interests of “White/European” populations. This is pretty foundational. If you can't see some overt kind of racial or ethnic component, they're almost always not alt-right. Maybe they instead have a far-right view on immigration or protectionist view on trade or far-right view on patriotic unity (say, criminalization of flag-burning)
   
2. The “alt-right” also specifically rejects universalism, be it in the form of classical liberalism, religious universalism (such as Christianity), or modern globalisation and neoliberalism. I'd phrase the religious aspect as more of a lack of religious tolerance. The others are good descriptors.
   
3. [T]he “alt-right” view the decline in Western societies as related to the downplaying of masculinity and the increased dominance of feminine forms of interaction and reasoning. Alt-right people do not celebrate the easing of gender roles. This one is not as powerful as an identification, since many groups may trace social dissatisfaction, like not finding a mate or being unsatisfied in relationships, back to confusion after a decline in gender norms.
   
4. The “alt-right” also rejects what is usually referred to as “cultural Marxism,” which refers to what could be called “New Left” forms of progressivism that maintain a Marxist-style of argumentation but replaces the proletariat with various “marginalized” populations. This heavily overlaps with traditional conservatives and constitutional conservatives in the states, as well as many reactionary non-ideological groups spanning political labels. It's definitely part of the alt-right too.
   
5. [Opposition to] Gramscian elements of these “New Left” movements, where an emphasis on metapolitics and gaining cultural hegemony plays a significant role. You'll hear this group whinge about the cultural dominance of the left in media institutions all the time.
   
6. The “alt-right” often turns more to the far past, be it the “classical” virtues of ancient Rome and (pre-Socratic) Greece, or to the pagan myths of pre-Christian European society. Again, tons of overlap from other groups, but true for the alt-right in particular. Strong sense of classical virtues against more barbaric or decadent vices of others.
   
7. [Belief that] people have a general preference for “like” populations, which is a dynamic originating via evolution.
   
8. [Belief that] All other groups except Whites practice explicit race-consciousness in their activities, and thus it is unjust to require universalism from Whites while permitting (or even promoting) race-consciousness for all others. Very much overlapping many other groups. Here, from liberal-left and gay cultural critic Douglas Murray:
   Whereas black studies celebrates black writers and black history, and gay studies brings out gay figures from history and pushes them to the fore, “whiteness studies” is “committed to disrupting racism by problematizing whiteness,” according to Syracuse University professor Barbara Applebaum, who wrote Oxford’s definition. This is to be done “as a corrective.”
   
   Defining an entire group of people, their attitudes, pitfalls and moral associations, based solely on their racial characteristics is itself a fairly good demonstration of racism. For “whiteness” to be “problematized” white people must be shown to be a problem. And not only on some academic, abstract level but in the practical day-to-day business of judging other people.
   Once again, an overlapping concern with many critics from all political persuasions, right left and center. But alt-right people really hammer on wanting a positive white group identity, and ground it on other racial identities and cultural heritages.
   

On November 04 2019 03:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


I think the subject is a bit more nuanced than that though, considering dog-whistling is a very real thing, politically and culturally.

On November 04 2019 05:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Rejecting Christianity is absolutely not one of the tenets of the alt-right, and there is plenty of overlap between Christians and alt-righters.

On November 04 2019 05:32 Xxio wrote:

Thanks for writing it out like that. A lot of it looks fine to me. Of course there are people in that grouping who, in my opinion, take it too far - just as there are people who take leftist positions too far. It seems to me that antifa, communists, anarchists and so on on the far left are given the benefit of the doubt, the bad actors are usually ignored, and there is assumption of good will. The opposite lens is cast on the alt-right or any right wing initiative. Maybe it comes down to perceived intent outweighing actual results and behavior. I think the Douglas Murray quote makes a very good point. Overall, I wish people would think much more about culture and much less about race.

On November 04 2019 05:14 pmh wrote:



You are very right. Games are a "problem" and have quiet an impact on the direction in which society goes. I think games play an important role in the individualization of society in general.
It is no longer awkward and boring to sit in your room alone,now you have something to do. You no longer need other people to give your life meaning,the game provides all your emotional needs,your highs and your lows.

On November 04 2019 05:32 Xxio wrote:

Thanks for writing it out like that. A lot of it looks fine to me. Of course there are people in that grouping who, in my opinion, take it too far - just as there are people who take leftist positions too far. It seems to me that antifa, communists, anarchists and so on on the far left are given the benefit of the doubt, the bad actors are usually ignored, and there is assumption of good will. The opposite lens is cast on the alt-right or any right wing initiative. Maybe it comes down to perceived intent outweighing actual results and behavior. I think the Douglas Murray quote makes a very good point. Overall, I wish people would think much more about culture and much less about race.

On November 04 2019 05:34 crnm95 wrote:

I didnt believe but I just opened up TwitchChat thereby exposing myself to Pepe memes.

YOU WERE RIGHT!!! I AM NOW AN ALT-RIGHT FASCIST!!! PepeHands

On November 04 2019 06:19 Danglars wrote:
It's much easier to give good will to people with real economic gripes that just look like frustration. This antifa guy probably won't own a house like his parents, raise a family on a single income like his parents, and pay off his student loans fairly quickly after graduation. It's hard to see how he'll search out the good aspects of capitalism, or blame market failure on distinctly anti-capitalistic trends. That looks like someone you might sympathize with, just misguided and driving further down a wrong road. Just reading down the list of alt-right diagnostic criteria, I pick up quite a few that just disgusts me at a core level. My current revulsion at the alt-left or far-left groups is more taught or acquired by contrast.

On November 04 2019 06:55 Nebuchad wrote:


No of course not. But we now perceive leftwingers to be shrill idiots who complain about nothing, and this is making us less likely to hear them out. They keep us from just enjoying our games and our community, fucking social justice warriors, I just want to beat some protosses ffs. Let's ostracize them, so that we don't have to hear from their nonsense again. And this other dude also, I know he's been a gamer for years but he seemed to agree with the leftist dude, probably should remove him as well, probably undercover. Also this nazi dude, he uses the same symbols as us, he is part of our community. He is humanized. Is he really a nazi? He could be an ironic nazi, isn't that a funny meme, after all who is a nazi? Those ideas are atrocious, universally condemned, no one is a nazi really. Remember how hysterical the left is? I bet they called him a nazi because they're hysterical, I bet they called him a nazi because they think everyone right of Stalin is a nazi. His ideas are probably not as bad as they say, he could be just a tradcath that is being maligned. I suddenly know a lot about the subtle differences between far right political ideologies, I wonder how that came to happen. The left is the real enemy, even if we don't agree on everything we could probably work together. Also he raised a good point about cultures the other day, and since we've chased all the leftists from the community because they were hysterical, nobody answered. If nobody answered I see no reason to assume that he was wrong there. That's interesting.

On November 04 2019 07:07 CoupdeBoule wrote:

Telling that you seem to think this is a left/right issue and not an authoritarian (such as -you guessed it!- nazis) vs freedom issue.