Quote your first post on TL! - Page 22

On May 02 2009 22:04 BookTwo wrote:
You guys ALL need to take a step back.

You ALL need to read this before thinking another thing.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/04/29/Swine-Flu.aspx

-------------------

Now you see? Less than 10 people have DIED as a DIRECT result of the virus. 3,500 people die A DAY from malaria ALONE. Why aren't we labeling that an epidemic? Because there aren't any vaccines that can be make which will make people very, very rich. I'm talking billions here.

You'll probably notice that it is my first post. Yes it is. I found the level of awareness on this matter very disturbing.

Basically, don't panic. This is NOT an epidemic. I'm not going to say out right away that it's a get rich quick scheme, but nowadays, anything is possible.

With a little more research, I think you'll find that the media, as always, has blown it out of proportion.

A big problem that humans face, is when something is unknown to us, we make assumptions. These assumptions can induce fear and cause widespread panic. If only people READ and RESEARCHED the topic, they would see that it isn't as bad as initially thought.

Without wanting to start any form of flame war, I'll just make a quick example. When the Twin Towers were hit, they estimated deaths to be above 10,000. I'm not sure about the exact number, but I'm sure it's under 4,000.

I'm not saying these deaths aren't tragic, I would just like to point out how the media uses hyperbole to attract ratings and sales.

Again, I apologies if this sounds like I'm attacking the media, but I'm a little frustrated at how they publicise the bad news, but not the good news. The pandemics, but not the cures.

I apologies again if I have offended anyone, and I assure you it was done unintentionally.

hey i'm really having trouble vs terran when i'm toss, i start off and make goons and stuff but he immedianty seals up with like a billion sieged tanks and vultures. Then i start to mass with the occasional storm on his workers. by the time i get enough men to do something though he has contained me with mass mines and spread out tanks.

1. how do i get passed that early seal

2. how do i get rid of all the mines if he is covering them with seiged tanks

thanks!

On August 09 2003 04:28 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:
Eat w/ your hands!

On July 30 2006 08:19 SteelString wrote:
Rofl gogo boxer highlights

This is some good advice from a friend who has had a family history of people joining the military: "if you have any doubt whatsoever, any doubt at all, then don't even consider joining the military." Think about it, you are going to be spending all of your time with some small breaks in between to serve in the military. This is the same level as a life commitment, and you never know for sure what you will be doing. Talk to family about it too.

On September 11 2008 12:47 Archerofaiur wrote:
Thesis to Increase Macro

Thesis to Increase Macro: Part 1 Mining
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78498
Thesis to Increase Macro: Part 2 Supply
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78501
Thesis to Increase Macro: Part 3 Support Buildings
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78657
Thesis to Increase Macro: Part 4 Production Buildings
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=79926
Thesis to Increase Macro Part 5: Gas
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=82730
Contact at ArcherofAiur@gmail.com


Thesis to Increase Macro: Part 1 Mining



Here are the different sections of today's episode for anyone who feels like tackling them one at a time.
The Answer
Zerg Mining Mechanic: Harvesting Tentacles
Protoss Mining Mechanic: Warp- Out Fields
Terran Mining Mechanic: Automining
Closing Thoughts


The Answer

The solution is to make building up the war machine fun again.

1) Increased emphasis on buildings (treat them like stationary units with their own personalities and functions) make the user want to come back to base to do something cool like launch a nuke or cast a global effect.

2) Make resource gathering and army production engaging and interactive by approaching these tasks as a "mini-game." In the original starcraft making a unit was a mini-game because you clicked to create the worker and in a little while out popped your prize (the unit!) and you had to go back and look at it in all its workery glory. And then you ordered it to go do something and you got a second prize (some resources!). The big thing was that you witnessed the fruit of your labor and that you willingly devoted some attention to your home base to improve your situation. Whats needed is a game mechanics that plays within the confines of automining and mbs (and maybe secretly mimic traditional resource collection) and is still fun.

3) Use these two things as a way to add innovation to starcraft (which many critics claim is severely lacking).




Our Thesis begins with unique resource gathering systems for each race to further diversify and create three different playstyles. I would suggest keep the resources the same so that the core gameplay is the same. I propose three potential race resource mechanics.
Zerg Harvesting Tentacles
Protoss Warp- Out Fields
Terran SCV Automining



Zerg Mining Mechanic: Harvesting Tentacles

How It Works
This mechanic would require zerg players to return to their hatchery and select a tentacle. The player then drags this tentacle over to the desired mineral patch and releases the mouse. The tentacle latches on (accompanied by appropriate graphic) and can then begin harvesting the minerals at a rate concurrent with traditional worker gathering.

This solution is an optimal solution because it recreates the mechanical aspects of manual mining (non-automining) while masking the fact that theoretically this is the same as manual mining. Players have an expectation (from other current RTS games) that they should be allowed to automate their unit's actions and waypoints. They do not (yet) have expectations that they should be able to automate building responses. By introducing entirely novel systems you can once again require the player to perform a vital task (manage an army and a home base) without having them view it as a chore, burden or relic of an archaic system.

Additionally, the dragging and linkage actions should be accompanied by appropriate alien squirming, grabing, morphing etc. This provides a visual reward every time a new mineral line is established. For those who are about to respond that this so incredibly imba (yada yada yada) please note that the rates can be adjusted to give the exact same harvesting rate as a individual worker hiking back and forth from base to mineral. In case you havn't figured it out yet anything can be balanced (starcraft's three distinct races proved that).

So to clarify we no longer have drones for harvesting minerals (maybe keep them in some other capacity for making buildings/defense/gas). Instead, a link is manually established between the hatchery and minerals by the player. The act of establishing this link requires almost the same attention and clicking patterns that you had with traditional (manual mining) starcraft. This allows for all the engagement that conventional resource management enjoys…at least for the zerg player.


Community Feedback: Harvesting Tentacles

Dabman from Teamliquid.net proposed this:
“The tentacles themselves should cost minerals, either by permanently using a drone to morph, or being built from the hatchery. The added macro would come from the fact that there would be 8-10 mineral patches, and you would not be able to immediately create tentacles for every one. There would also be no horrible penalty for not making tentacles; after all, once the minerals run out, the tentacles are lost value. In general, tentacles would be the way to go if you had the APM to rush back to base from time-to-time to add another tentacle.”
(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78498&currentpage=4)

Dabman suggests allowing drones to upgrade into tentacles. I had originally conceived of tentacles as replacing drones but I like this dabman’s vision better. For a mineral price drones could mutate into a tentacle. They would latch onto a hatchery and a tentacle would shoot out of there back. The player controlled action could be the player selecting the drone, clicking morph tentacle and then selecting the hatchery. The player would also select a mineral line for the tentacle to latch onto. The tentacle would then function as a more efficient worker line. The player has now freed up all the workers that were mining that mineral patch and can use them for building production or send them to expansions. Dabman further suggest the mechanic be implemented in such a way that does not compromise the necessity of drones in zerg gameplay.

Purchasing the Tentacle
This is the area that will most benefit from playtesting. Should tentacles be purchased at the hatchery and then grown and then connected? Should tentacles be provided free and sporadically like larva and the act of connecting them require resources? Thoughts?

Why Zerg?
The zerg playstyle more than any other race focuses on large numbers of cheap units. It is only fitting that the zerg player be required to spend a portion of his time at the base generating macro advantage rather then just attack moving for 20 min.
Resource mechanic is new, strange and foreign: appropriate for the most alien of races.
Mimics biological systems (roots, blood vessels, proboscis)
Reinforces the hatchery as the nucleus of the zerg base
Could generate periodically like larva.

Advantages
Interactive
Macro Intensive
Aesthetically appealing
Characteristic of race themes and lore

Disadvantages
Different (AAAAHHHH)
Difficult (but not impossible) to balance


Credit Where Credit is Due
The tentacle idea for zerg harvesting (sans drag selecting) was proposed on Blizzard's forums a couple months ago by someone else. If that person wants to come forward and claim credit for that I would really like to discuss these issues with you.



Protoss Mining Mechanic: Warp- Out fields

How It Works
To collect minerals protoss players would need to select a base and "build" a warp-out field over a mineral field. Initiation of the warp-out field would cost money and the warp-out field would need time to materialize before it could begin phasing out minerals to protoss home worlds. In essence this requires the same actions as selecting a nexus (now probe) building a probe (initializing warp out field) and directing that probe to appropriate mineral field (placing warp out field on mineral field). An electrical disturbance animation along the lines of psi storm or disruption field signifies that this effect is in place and processing a mineral field. The process does not require further automation because it relies on construction actions. (and thank god for to automate construction actions would necessitate automation of all of base building).

Why Protoss?
Protoss are the masters of warping technology. If a race has the capacity to recall and warp-in units from one place to another the logical extension of this technology is to teleport your resources directly into your manufacturing systems. Aesthetically the electrical field over a mineral field will fit right at home with the Protoss look particularly in a new base with many warp-in and warp-out fields going up at once (make sure there different enough for visual clarity).

Warp Out Field Feedback Request
Question for you guys. Should warp-out fields have an upgrade ability? Should you be able to stack them?

Advantages
Player must come back to base to place warp out fields
Devotes attention and mouse clicks to macromanagement
New spin on old mechanic (warp-in)
Keeps with racial traits and lore
Only one probe required for a complete base (natural extension of starcraft 1 probe's ability to create a whole base by itself)

Disadvantages
Only one probe required for a complete base (we all know how much we hate having "heroes")


Surge Feature
One variation of my warp-out mechanic included a surge feature where the player can put a warp field in hyperdrive to generate additional minerals at the cost of decreased production for a time period after (incorporates parts of current gas build). For balance considerations this could be hard capped.



Terran Mining Mechanic: Automining

How It Works
Terran player clicks to make a scv and sets the rally point to a nearby mineral field. When the SCV pops out it immediately heads to the mineral field and begins its menial labor. Got it?

Here to explain why giving only one race automining might actually work is 1950's Family Values Dad and Lil Billy.
Lil Billy: Wow dad this game is incredible. Thank you so much for buying me starcraft 2.
1950's Family Values Dad: No problem son. You know in my day we didn't have all of those new features you kids have now like MBS and unlimited selection or that automining that the Terrans have.
Lil Billy: But dad I don't understand how come the Terran get automining while the Protoss and Zerg have to place all their gathering systems. Isn't that totally IMBA?
1950's Family Values Dad: Well Lil Billy, It is true that the Terran do have the advantage of being able to increase their mineral production while away at the battle lines. However there are a lot of advantages that the other races enjoy. For instance, did you know that you cant kill the Zerg harvesting tentacles. No you have to destroy the whole hatchery.
Lil Billy: Golly that's a huge advantage for the Zerg.
1950's Family Values Dad: Yes indeed. The attention that the Terran player saves by automating his minerals comes at the cost of having to protect his workers when his base is invaded.
Lil Billy: Oh I get it! The key to giving one race a cool thing is to balance it with equally cool features for the other races.
1950's Family Values Dad: Right you are son. Its all part of the elegant and cohesive balance that makes starcraft a truly extraordinary game. Any other questions?
Lil Billy: Will Russia destroy us in an atomic firestorm?
1950's Family Values Dad: We'll see Lil Billy, we'll see.


Why Terran?
As the race responsible for the Kel-Morian Combine you better believe the Terran are good at mining. They don't need no teleportation voodoo or some bio-prehensile appendage. No siree. YOU! Redneck trucker dude, go get in that suit and get outside and when your out there go mine some of that blue junk and keep doing that till I tell you to stop.
This resource mechanic feels the most familiar and thus perfect for the race closest to kin. It stands in stark contrast to the more "alien" resource mechanics for the protoss and zerg

Advantages
Traditional
Easy for beginning players

Disadvantages
Little macro for the terran player, this can be compensated by increased emphasis on building centered mechanics (more on this later).


Justification
Ultimately, it might not be a totally bad thing to have a race that favors heavy micro, one that favors heavy macro and one that falls somewhere in between (fits the racial trichotomy).



Closing Thoughts

Please remember these are not hard and fast ultimatums. I am not saying "this is how SC2 HAS to be or else it will fail and I won't buy it the end". What I am really advocating more then anything else is a new way of looking at macromanagement. I believe my proposal opens up avenues of design space that may have not been explored previously. The addition of contemporary UI features has proven incompatible with both the traditional macro SC2 enjoys and the multitude of aspirations SC2 hopes to accomplish. In order to fill all three of these big shoes the first thing that has to happen is for designers and fans to at least entertain novel approaches to RTS gameplay. Even harder then this but equally necessary: All parties involved must be prepared to compromise on some levels for the greater good. Because although starcraft as a universe is defined by the conflict of three obstinate and opposing factions, starcraft as a game can not be.

Pax

Excellent job, you've laid the foundation for garbage players like myself. When using your BO's I don't feel uncomfortable, I have a plan and I can focus on my micro and macro a lot more and it's really a lot more fun that way, thanks.

On March 26 2008 15:12 jgad wrote:
I think Flash's expressions effectively convey a summary of the matches today...

On September 26 2002 15:09 0x64 wrote:
I like trees! like in the shlamber.net forum, not like battle.net forum
THANK YOU FOR LISTENING

On April 12 2008 06:22 LaughingTulkas wrote:
Testie back on the top 100!

On September 09 2008 05:05 Clow wrote:
July for the Overmind's sake.

On June 10 2006 20:54 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
For some reason I can't seem to find the season 9 maps? Do I just use the season 8 maps or am I somehow missing the link? I looked all over the site. Maybe I'm retardedly missing them. Thanks in advance.

On October 24 2002 02:32 rei wrote:
are you H_honest_W ??
I had to go that last game sorry about that yesterday...

we can play against sometimes...

this is Art_Of_NTT by the way

On July 01 2006 11:57 Reason wrote:
Hi skyglow xD just joined TL but i been reading your posts for some time now, so i thought id check the game out and see what was what. You had a nice opening with high unit count and a fast expo, with some amusing harass ^_^, however you left two goons outside his main which was a needless waste, one or a zeal/probe would have been better. You then went onto 3 gate goon then robo, seeing his 2 fac vult opening. He had a pathetic amount of tanks and with your nice goon platoon size a quick shuttle w/zeal rush woulda nipped him in the bud nicely. You didn't really play too badly so im afraid I can only pick up on some minor points. First of all you got your second gas too early imo, though with third hard to secure safely perhaps you were thinking ahead ?? at ten minutes you got your obs, popped his observant mines and picked up your min only, then macrod pretty hard so by 12 minutes you had 147 supply and a sizeable force. Here was your opportunity to punish the terran for the nice little advantage you had; he had a poor tank force due to his early vult opening and he only had his main and his nat. At this 12 minute marker ( specific to your game im not implying this is a special time ) keeping him contained with your superior force and expoing all over the shop was definitely the best option, which you didnt take.. you gated up to 9 and went arb tech, whilst losing valuable units (defeating the point of gating up like a mad man) in a few IM GOING TO GO HIM >>>>>><<<<<<< NO IM NOT movements, which i have lost many games to, never do that
One of Protoss' greatest assets are observers, you didnt really put them to as good use as you could have. 1 in the main was sufficient to see roughly what was going on, but i woulda put three in there, two to watch his spread of facts which your 1 ob couldnt see, and another to watch his supply mountain....<watching his psi, have a peek when his armories go down, plan out your next movements based on these, it helps to have obs in his army and outside where his forces sit so you can see when he attacks, but also with how much> you werent watching expos, once he gained a slight advantage he just expod up and crushed... if you had seen his expos you coulda stopped them, or went for some HT drops which with your gas surplus were definitely a missed opportunity; most if not all of his expos were completely vulnerable to HT/reaver drops, this would have won you the game.
-_- Sum all that shit up.

Put more than 2 cannons at a vulnerable expo, vults will just rape them and its a waste of 300.
Don't waste your units with indecisive attacks. You turned back because you realised you couldnt take his army---knowwhether you can or not, handy things obs'
Please observe more^^
HT/reaver drops throughout(you would have known if this was a worthy investment if you had observer numbers and locations correct)
2 shuttles w/ 8 zeals + the army you had really woulda won you that game at almost any point until late game when you had fizzled your advantage away with inaction and unit wastage and his cheese terran army w/upgs just humped you.
hope this helped,
sorry if it didnt.
Edit: Remember, harassing scv's = less money coming in, more money going out on more scv's, smaller army size.
He only had to make 65 scv's that game. You made 135 probes i dont claim to know much but i think thats simply too much.

Well I believe Jaedong has it all to win.

Because Savior just isn't what he used to be long time ago. Thus automatically Bisu doensn't look that strong at PVZ as we used to believe. I mean many have beaten Savior, Bisu has just done it more times, but most of the credits we give to Bisu as for being n1 is for having defeated Savior. But we've seen that defeating savior is not defeating the maestro anymore.. sad but true imo

So neither Savior nor Bisu are as strong as we (I) thought...