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Thesis to Increase Macro Part 4: Production Mechanics

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-07 03:41:15
October 07 2008 03:03 GMT
#1

Fellow Gamers, I come to you in the wake of recent events to issue a call to reason. Let no player deny the perils of our time. While we battle one another, divided by the petty strife of our common history, the tide of a greater conflict is turning against us, threatening to destroy all that we have accomplished. It is time for us as professional players and as casual gamers to set aside our long-standing feuds and unite! The tides of an insurmountable crisis are upon us, and we must seek refuge upon higher ground, lest we be swept away by the flood.

Single Building Selection is no more. Whatever semblance of gosu or leetness it once provided is a phantom, a memory. With our metagame left unchecked, who will you turn to for macromanagment?

The devastation wrought by the nergin invaders is self-evident. We have seen our forums and communities destroyed by the calculated blows of the Spam Bots. We have seen first-hand our suggestions and discussions consumed by the nightmarish Trolls. Unprecedented and unimaginable though they may be, these are the signs of our time.

The time has come, my fellow gamers, to rally to a new banner. In unity lies strength; already many of the dissident factions have joined us. Out of the many, we shall forge an indivisible whole, capitulating only to a single Project. And from that Project, I shall watch over you!

From this day forward, let no poster make flame upon any other poster. Let no fanboy agency conspire against this new beginning. And let no noob consort with pestering powers. And to all the enemies of Starcraft, seek not to bar our way, for we shall win through, no matter the cost!









The threaditorial you all know and love as “Thesis to Increase Macro” is undergoing some big changes. Effective next episode these essays will now form the backbone of a larger operation. Project Purification will focus on educating you, the reader, to design better solutions to Starcraft 2 macro. Additionally, Project Purification will place an increased emphasis on community discourse, extramural research, thematic features and empirical testing. You will still receive the same high quality conceptual studies and you will still be presented with concrete applications of principles learned. What has changed is the purpose: from proposing game mechanics to promoting a holistic understanding of game design. It is the hope of those involved that this will foster the inspired environment necessary to improve Starcraft 2 macromanagement.









Thesis to Increase Macro
Part 4: Production Building Mechanics


To those just joining us,
Thesis to Increase Macro: Part 1 Mining Mechanics
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78498
Thesis to Increase Macro: Part 2 Supply Mechanics
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78501
Thesis to Increase Macro: Part 3 Auxiliary Building Mechanics
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=78657

Here are the different sections of today’s episode for anyone who feels like tackling them one at a time.
The IDEA Strategy for Developing Game Mechanics
Spawning Pool Ability: Mutate Baneling
Queen’s Nest Ability: Blatant WC3 Locust Swarm Rip Off
Defiler Mound Ability: Epinepox
Hatchery Ability: Recycle Overlord 2.0 “Spontaneous Germination”
Inquiry: What is Fun?








The IDEA Strategy for Developing Game Mechanics

Today I am going to talk about what I like to call the IDEA strategy. IDEA stands for Intention, Discovery, Examination, and Approach. IDEA allows the designer to come at a problem from directions that have not been previously explored. IDEA was one of the first design strategies that I became aware of and it has proven most useful. Many will note that the IDEA strategy in many ways parallels the Problem, Goals, Statement of Purpose, Observations and Conclusions methodology I talked about in Part 2: Supply Mechanics. Though similar the IDEA strategy is specifically structured to encourage you to investigate and draw on outside knowledge from the real world (that thing that occurs between the end of one starcraft game and the start of another). This outside knowledge is then used to develop creative approaches to gameplay design.




(Intention Theory)
The Intention phase is also about defining boundaries and clearly stating the end that you are working towards.

(Intention Example)
In writing this column I knew that I wanted to discover ways that production buildings could be used to increase macro in starcraft 2. I wrote this at the top of a piece of paper and left it sitting on top of my desk for a couple of days. It occurred to me that the best way to find new ways to expand upon production buildings was to limit myself to the race that had the fewest production buildings. As Maro reminds us, "Restrictions breed creativity." So I was restricting myself to the race with only one production building (technically more if you want to count lair, hive and infested command center). By doing this I was forcing myself to come up with solutions that bypassed traditional approaches to "production buildings". I could not create new "production buildings" that functioned in different ways. Doing so would challenge the primacy of the hatchery in the zerg ecosystem (a central theme). Being denied the ability to create new "production buildings" I did the next best thing. I created a new definition for "production building." However, I did not realize how to do this until after the Examination phase.


(Discovery Theory)
In the Discovery phase the designer identifies a recurring theme that they find interesting. For the purpose of this demonstration we will stick to racial themes in starcraft. Racial themes come in both the lore and gameplay varieties. I choose to zero in on lore themes. How to you decide which theme to go with? It is simple. Pick your favorite.

(Discovery Execution)
My favorite aspect of the zerg is their biology. Life, organisms, instinct, metabolism, evolution, chemistry, genetics, ecology, disease, etc. Biology is why I love the zerg. This biology theme would influence the flavor of my mechanics. The three mechanics I propose below revolve around mutation, insects and infection. The Discovery phase also provides guidance towards the Examination phase. Now let's think for a second. I want to improve on unit production and I want to do so with respect to the zerg. I want to come up with a mechanic that helps you grow your military and I am most fascinated by the biology of the zerg. Hmmm, if only there was some basic "unit" of biology responsible for all growth. Something fundamental, something dynamic, something with the sort of elegance that only results from 4 billion years of reiteration (blizzard wishes it had that kind of polishing time). Anyone have any ideas? Oh wait I know. The Cell!






(Examination Theory)
The Examination phase differs from the Discovery phase in that you are indulging in abstract investigation on a subject external to the game. Don't be afraid to really go out there (worry about finding your way back to reality later). What does your concept mean? Why is it so important? When is your concept relevant and where does it intersect with game design?

(Examination Example)
So I now have my concept, the cell. I choose to explore how the cell produces the components it needs to survive and proliferate. Cellular production of proteins begins in the nucleus where transcription factors bind to DNA to initiate transcription of mRNA. We can think of transcription factor binding as a player’s mouse or hot key selecting a production building. The selected production building is the DNA, the ultimate source of what is to be generated and the site of original manufacturing. mRNA (messenger RNA) is an “order” for a protein. mRNA is our build queue, a unit-to-be. Eventually, mRNA makes its way out of the nucleus and into a ribosome which produces our protein through a process known as translation. In our analogy translation is our unit leaving the production building, huzzah!
But wait there is more. Cellular proteins must often undergo further modification before they are physiologically active. Take, for example, the stomach protein pepsin. Pepsin is an enzyme responsible for the digestion of proteins in the stomach. Pepsin is produced and secreted as pepsinogen in the cells lining your stomach. The acidic environment of your stomach (pH~2) causes pepsinogen to catalyze its own cleavage. Pepsinogen clips off part of its own amino acid sequence to become pepsin. Pepsin can now go about its essential job of breaking down your food. I describe the post-translation modification of pepsin to illustrate that production of cellular components occurs on several different levels. The three mechanics that I propose below seek to create “new” units through post-production modification.
Another way that precursors are modified to suit the current needs of the cell is enzymatic regulation. Enzymatic activity is regulated by the binding of activators and inhibitors. This creates a protein with a different physiological function from a preexisting component. I intended to replicate this by introducing abilities that allowed units to perform in enhanced ways when under the influence of building-associated effects.




(Approach Theory)
The Approach phase is about devising a way to implement what you learned from the Exploration phase. If all the other phases lead up to the “what” then the Approach phase is figuring out the “how.”

(Approach Example)
I wanted to debunk this myth that minerals and gas are the only resources in Starcraft. Minerals, Gas, Supply, Time, Space, Information, Energy, Health, Units, Buildings, Control and Attention are all “resources” that can be manipulated by players to gain battlefield advantage. Of these I was most interested in the attention resource. Every time the player wants to influence a game element he has to “pay” attention to that element. If he refuses to pay this price the game element will not change (at least not in the manner he desires). Automation decreases the quantity of attention a player has to pay to influence the game. Interactive mechanics of the kind I sought to devise provide new avenues for players to invest attention. With this plan to make users “pay” attention in mind I was ready to put my mechanics together.


To summarize

Intention: Production Building Mechanics
Discovery: Biology
Exploration: Cellular Post-production Modification
Approach: Paying Attention

I was going to increase zerg macromanagment through production building mechanics inspired by biological systems. Using the concept of how a cell works and emphasis on post-production modification I would allow players to “pay” attention in exchange for superior unit production.





Spawning Pool Ability: Mutate Baneling

SyphllusSteve from teamliquid.net had some really good ideas for zerg building mechanics. While I would suggest fans of the Thesis read his whole macro proposal in Thesis to Increase Macro: Part 3, the segments that most caught my attention were these two ancillary building mechanics.

Hydralisk Den- Hydralisks evolve into Lurkers at a quicker rate when located within a certain distance of the Hydralisk Den.

Spire/Greater Spire- Mutalisks evolve into Guardians/Devourers at a quicker rate when located within a certain distance of the Spire/Greater Spire.

The spawning pool ability I am about to offer builds on steve’s idea to alter mutation in the immediate vicinity of buildings. I was also intrigued by his idea to have activated buildings that changed the properties of units in the building’s proximity. I would use this “area of effect” concept to devise my queens nest ability.



How it works:
A zerg player would select zerglings and order them into the spawning pool. They would emerge, dripping corrosive ichor, as banelings. Each baneling mutation would deplete some of the spawning pool’s ooze. Once a spawing pool used up all of its reserves the zerg player would have to wait for the pool to refill over time. For balancing one possibility is to limit refilling to only night time.

What would a zerg player lose with this mechanic as opposed to the current baneling mutation model? The zerg player loses the ability to mutate anywhere on the field of battle. Zerg players also lose the ability to mutate with only hotkeys. With the baneling pool mechanic they will have to resort to good ol’ fashion C&C action (Camera and Clicking).
So what are zerg players gaining in exchange for losing the ability to mutate away from base and without C&C? For one, mutation of banelings would no longer require a min/gas cost. Mutation would also be instantaneous (subject to balance… I know it’s useless for me to say that since almost every single thing anyone anywhere can say about starcraft 2 is subject to balance but I get the sense it makes you guys feel better).
Now a zerg player who desires alot of banelings (and who doesn’t) will want to create multiple spawning pools. My vision of a “baneling build” would start with zerg players creating many zerglings at their hatcherys. These zerglings would undergo post-production modification at spawning pools located at zerg home bases. This would lead to baneling lines stretching from a well financed zerg base to the front lines. Your army in the field would receive a fresh wave of explosive reinforcements every couple of seconds. Alternatively, you could place a spawning pool on creep dropped from an overlord right outside an opponent’s base. Now your slower moving banelings don’t have to go far to lay the hurt.
How would you guys modify this ability to suit your concerns? Would it be better to allow banelings to mutate independent of the spawning pool but with some benefit for using the pool? How do you think this ability would effect attention management, base defense, unit production, and attack strategies? What are the advantages and disadvantages of having mutation tied to a building?




Queen’s Nest Ability: Blatant WC3 Locust Swarm Rip Off

“This ability would be an incredibly cheap (almost sickening) mimicry of the Warcraft 3 Crypt Lord’s Locust Swarm. How (un)original. Should fit in perfectly with the S(pider)talker. And while we are at it why not throw Locust Swarm into Diablo 3 too. Wouldn’t that make you happy? Basically his proposed “ability” is a WC3 Copy and Paste job and nothing more. It’s that simple. What makes it even worse is that it is an extremely blotched copy and paste job. I mean they don’t even come from a hero or even a unit. No, you have to click on the queen’s nest and out pop these thousands of little umm doesn’t matter what you call them they are still WC3 locust. So these “locust” would swarm out of the queen’s nest and attach on any zerg units that are grouped around the nest within a certain circumference. Oh Archer, I assume you are trying to say the queen’s nest now houses numerous colonies of parasitic creatures that willingly sacrifice themselves to serve the Overmind as required. Hmmm, where have I seen that before? Oh yah, that’s exactly what it says in the starcraft manual and you just stole it and tried to pass it off as your own new idea. Seriously, do you think we are stupid? So now all your hydra’s and lings have little gnats flying around them. Whoop Dee Doo. How else are you going to butcher the Crypt Lords Locust Swarm Ability? Oh that’s right, now instead of hurting the enemy in a wide range around the Crypt Lord the “locust” can only hurt enemies that are within a tiny range around each affected zerg. I can’t even think of a worse idea then this. Oh wait, what if we make the locust disappear after a while so just when they are beginning to help you in a battle they fade and you have to do the whole thing over on a new group. What’s that you say? That’s what you want to do!? AARRRGGHH!!!”





Defiler Mound Ability: Epinepox

How it works:
The zerg player would click on the defiler mound and initiate the ability. The player would now have a circle of a certain size over his cursor. Think Halo Wars selecting device sans the increasing radius part. The zerg player would drag this “paint brush” from the defiler mound onto the surrounding creep. He would be able to spread this cursor around creep until a time limit was exceeded. Whatever creep this “paint brush” passed over would burst into boils and cysts. Zerg units traveling over these diseased areas would in turn be subject to the virus’ adrenalizing (not a word. . . yet) effects. The length of the “paint” stream could be fixed or determined by some resource.


Epinepox is a creep transmitted disease (CTD) that is caused by the Velocixeno Virus. Symptoms include nausea, vomiting, urge to devour all sentient life and 30% increased speed. Most Xenomorphs respond positively to moving off affected creep and are able to resume their movement at a normal pace. If you are one of the billions of nightmarish invaders afflicted by this devastating ailment ask your doctor if MICROTOR is right for you. MICROTOR interferes with a crucial interaction that initiates Epinepox. MICROTOR is not for everyone. Players who are base managers or may become base managers should not use MICROTOR as severe dependency may result. Remember, if you or a loved one are suffering from Epinepox MICROTOR may be able to help.

Also, with Epinepox we don’t have to worry about that awkward exception of drones not moving as fast on the creep. With Epinepox you are sending the disease straight out to your forces on the frontlines. Unless, of course, you wanted to increase your mineral production instead. Hmmm.


So what aspect of unit production caused me to stumble upon Epinepox. I started by writing out all of the steps that result in what we call a “unit”. (Can’t stress it enough, pen and paper guys) First, you go to a building. You select the building and select a unit to make. Some gas some minerals and some supply is subtracted from your account. You wait a certain amount of time for that unit to appear. When the unit does appear you direct it (manually or through rally points) to a certain location. When it gets to where it is supposed to go it does something cool. So I sat back and looked at what I had written and scratched my head. Suddenly, it dawned on me that almost everything I had just written could theoretically be done by an effect just as well as a unit. That started me on the thought line that led to an effect that acts like a unit. This effect would grant the same bonuses as the zerg creep mechanic but in a much more controlled and interactive manner.











Hatchery Ability: Recycle Overlord 2.0 “Spontaneous Germination”

The design for this final mechanic did not follow the IDEA strategy described above. It is included here to give an alternative view to unit-production mechanic design.


Feedback from the Recycle Overlord Mechanic proposed in Part 2: Supply Mechanics suggested that extra larva was not worth the mineral, build time and supply loss of sacrificing an overlord. So once again I had a problem. The good news was that I really like problems because as we all know problems are just the first step towards solutions. There were two other unit production mechanics which had been floating around in my head for a while. Both of these mechanics were proposed by starcraft 2 developers which confirmed that SC devs were indeed considering manipulation of unit production time as viable design space for increasing macromanagement, innovation and racial distinction. I am referring of course to the Protoss Warp-In Mechanics and Terran Reactor Add-on Mechanic. Could I alter the Recycle Overlord 1.0 Mechanic to fit with unit production trends from the Warp-in and Reactor Mechanics? To find out I went back to my old friend, the pen and paper. Here is what I wrote.

Terran: Reactor Add-on =2 queues and dual unit production. Min/gas/building cost. Perform once for continuous effect.

Protoss: Warp-in = Discount on unit production time. Attention cost (must return focus to base). Must perform for each effect.



Some important things caught my attention.

First, these two mechanics differed in the degree of production time decreased. Warp-in gave the least perceived decrease in production time. The reactor effectively halved production time (for an army) and thus decreased production time to a greater extent. I felt that the zerg mechanic I intended to create should provide the greatest decrease in production time. It did not take me long to realize that the greatest decrease in production time would be no production time at all. From this point on I sought to mold a mechanic that would confer instantaneous production.

Second, these two mechanics differed in the cost incurred to use the ability. The reactor requires mineral/gas while warp-in requires the user to pay with attention. Because I sought to give zerg the greatest decrease in production time I was obligated to require the steepest cost. My mechanic would require both a hard cost (mineral/gas) and a soft cost (attention). The attention payment would necessitate two components (C&C).
1. Centering of the main camera on a base localized event (required for following component).
2. Mouse selecting to initiate the effect (drag and click, non-hotkey-able player action).
The framework for Overlord Recycling 1.0 already carried the desired hard and soft costs. Selecting of the overlord satisfied the attention payment. Every overlord sacrificed had minerals and production time costs that were paid to create the overlord. Additionally, the loss of overlords decreased supply, unit and information (vision/detection) resources.

Third, the benefits received differ in the permanence of the effect. The warp-in mechanic is limited to single activations. The player clicks to initiate the effect, effect happens momentarily, effect stops. The reactor, however, grants enduring returns regardless of how many production cycles it is involved with. You create the reactor once after which it requires no additionally maintenance. I wanted the zerg mechanic to have a ‘surge’ effect. By granting a temporary effect the mechanic could be used by zerg players who wanted to overwhelm their opponents with a sudden swell of troops. This wave of new forces would die out just as suddenly as it appeared should the opponent weather the assault successfully. This fits the archetype “alien tide of death” battle scenes that you see so much in science fiction.

Fourth, these mechanics differed in the population level at which they operated. With warp-in the production time ‘decrease’ resolves on the individual unit level. Each individual unit is produced slightly faster. In contrast, the reactor gives decreased production time only when used on multiple units. I felt that the zerg mechanic should grant benefits (production time decreases) for numerous units simultaneously. This encourages the mechanic to be used on the entirety of the next horde you are generating.

Underneath what I had written about the reactor and warp-in mechanics I scribbled this

Zerg: Spontaneous Germination =Instantaneous unit production. Min/gas/supply/unit cost. Must perform for each effect.


How it works:
Zerg player can select an overlord and move it to over a hatchery (lair/hive). Player then selects hatchery clicks “recycle” and then selects overlord positioned over hatchery. The top hole claw thing of the hatchery (reference: http://www.starcraft2.com/screenshot.xml?s=80) would then snatch the overlord from the sky and swallow him whole. All eggs made from larva that spawned in that hatchery would immediately hatch (spontaneous germination).


I predict that some posters will advise that the sacrifice of one overlord for “spontaneous germination” of all eggs tied to a single hatchery is still not worth the costs. To these players I pose the possibility of sacrificing one overlord for spontaneous germination of all hatcheries on the map. Would this still not be worth it? Would this be overpowered? What are your suggestions for finding a happy medium?









I promise that we are going to end this installment soon. Some might not believe it but I do pity my reader. For those who made it to the finish line, Good Job! In the next episode we are going to talk about how to figure out what is wrong with your ideas and what can be done to fix them. As you can probably expect we will use the mechanics provided today as examples.

But before adjourning . . .















Inquiry: What is Fun?


“And what is good, Phaedrus,
And what is not good-
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?”




Fun. Of all the considerations that go into game design there are none so fundamental as well, fun. Yet, for all its significance this concept is notoriously hard to pin down. We know that fun exists. Our identity as gamers is testament to that. But what are the defining characteristics that constitute the core of our craft?


Today, I pose the question “What is fun?” I ask this because in addressing the Starcraft 2 macro problem I have come to an impasse. I have a pretty good idea of how to approach this but before proceeding I would appreciate insight from the community. Feel free to comment on what constitutes fun in the context of Starcraft, video games, and life in general.

If anyone is looking for a place to start, might I recommend
http://www.jenovachen.com/flowingames/introduction.htm






Have a great Blizzcon!

Pax
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
Ki_Do
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)981 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-07 10:37:30
October 07 2008 10:28 GMT
#2
Single Building Selection is no more.

too early to say that...
and
wow, a lot of mechanics to dificult gameplay but none to improve economic strategy
gj anyway, ppl wanting to help is always beter than ppl bitching(liek me f.e)
I've got a point, and i'm ready to kill or die for it.
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
October 07 2008 14:38 GMT
#3
Random thoughts after reading this excellent effort :


They tend to go in the same direction though : do not over-micro Zerg, please.


1)
I do not like the effects attached to buildings. Would they be implemented, they would count in the "balance" between races I guess. Therefore, a Zerg would be forced to use them to compete at the same level. (I have approximative english, but you get the idea).

This would lead the Zerg to over-prepare for battles (what, you dont have your 30 % speed before flank, you're doomed, noob). And i do believe Zerg already has to over-prepare for battle (weak units, flanking, consume, ultras in front, etc).

So I am not enthousiast about this idea of giving Zerg more micro/macro.


2)
I do not like the rip-off of moon wells. And especially to spawning pools, I don't want to build tons of them and manage my level of "blue", just to be able to compete with 2 other races that do not have to worry at all about same thing.

Plus I don't want to be forced to have a spawning pool at disposal to be able to make Blings. I want to make them on the fly, behind protoss mineral patch preferably. (After burrowing/hiding my lings, too


At this point I realize I may sound negative, and not constructive at all. I am being objective though, feel free to take it or leave it.


3)
I LOVE the idea of consuming overlords. This is brilliant, fits into Zerg's fluff and play.

I don't like the effect you attached to it though, too much micro, especially because it would become really handy at mid, late-game, when you can afford the overlords, and at this stage of the game, Zerg (in SC1 at least), is already overwhelmed by micro/macro. (weaks units, flanking, consume, yes i already said it)

I would propose a still supply-oriented idea : when you consume an overlord, you gain extra 16 psi for say, 10 seconds. (opens the way to nice corsair / wraith / valkyries harass counters... Sacrifice an ovi or two, pop 10 hydras...)

There it is for the random thoughts, hope they may be of some use.


About the fun :

I know its irrelevant to what your trying to achieve here, but I want to say what I love in SC, are the sounds (they are perfect, i can mentally make them anytime), the animation and great reactivity of units.

I love the way they just do what you told them, and they get stuck like shit if path is blocked, because, they just fucking do what you told them. It's also very good in the way that once you get used to it, you can abuse it. Well i guess i'am partially defining micro right there, but anyway, I like that, and this is what is fun for me.

Now since you can't do shit about those said things, I'll try to find some more that could fit in.
I like the way that you can play very macro oriented, or very micro oriented in this game. (While the best is obviously a mix, and nowadays the trend is macro) But still, you can win some games (not saying competitive games here, just fun games), with micro.

I know it may sound paradoxical since I just criticized your ideas as being to much micro oriented for the Zerg, but this point remains : what i like in current SC, is to be able to chose between heavy micro / heavy macro / or a mix of both if I am inspired. The ideas you submitted made me think Zerg would have less of a choice, and would be force to micro his buildings to stand a chance.


Hope this helps in a way, keep up the good work, and I would love to see some of your ideas make it to SC2, because they are very creative.
Resistance ain't futile
AnyOne
Profile Joined January 2008
Chile547 Posts
October 07 2008 16:14 GMT
#4
omg
STX SOuL FightinG~ Inter.Calm FigthinG ~
WoodenSpider
Profile Joined April 2008
United States85 Posts
October 08 2008 01:28 GMT
#5
I love all the theorizing and stuff your doing. I have to disagree, though with what your proposing. It's great to try to make the game more interesting/fun/realistic/whatever, but you also have to keep it simple. KISS-keep it simple stupid. Trying to remember all this, and applying it in a game would make it too much like work. I'm not saying I don't love some of your ideas, like having "finishing production" buildings, (the spawning pool to banelings sounds great) (like the Golgi apparatus) and the whole zerg is like a cell thing is really cool. But if a game is too complex, it just loses a lot of its simple enjoyment factor.

btw, I really like the whole "a base is like a cell thing." Maybe that should apply to all races. like the Nexus/command center/hatchery is the nucleus, minerals/miners are the like chloroplast or something, mitochondria production buildings, cilia defense buildings, etc.
Showtime!
Profile Joined November 2007
Canada2938 Posts
October 08 2008 12:48 GMT
#6
TL.net aren't the kind of people you should be talking down to man. I still don't like your tone. I'll read this when I have more time because I like progress and innovative ideas.

Still, I don't see this changing much considering it is all theory and I highly doubt you work for Blizzard.
Mini skirt season is right around the corner. ☻
GeorgeForeman
Profile Joined April 2005
United States1746 Posts
October 08 2008 13:27 GMT
#7
I was a big fan of the ovie consume thing when you initially proposed it, and I still like it. That said, I say keep it at 3 larvae for one ovie. Any more than that and you're asking for abuse. You know how zerg players will save up a ton of resources and larvae for when they can start making ultras? Imagine them doing that but being able to make two waves worth of ultras instantly. This ability would have crazy scaling, becoming ridiculously effective late game. I like it, but more as you wrote it the first time rather than this new, more powerful version.
like a school bus through a bunch of kids
[X]Ken_D
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
United States4650 Posts
October 08 2008 22:04 GMT
#8
I haven't read anything yet, but dam.. that's long.
[X]Domain - I just do the website. Nothing more.
Fontong
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States6454 Posts
October 08 2008 22:59 GMT
#9
This Thesis has gone a bit too far IMO. I can't say that you didn't put a great deal of thought and research into writing it but they are definitely getting unStarcraft-like.

These things you are proposing sound much more like chores to me than single building selection ever is in SC1. I really don't want to have to click back to my base to enact an ability whose sole purpose is to occupy my 'attention.' Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that many other people would either.

Although the overlord proposal seems ok, you have to consider how some of the other ideas detract from gameplay. If banelings must be morphed at the spawning pool, won't this decrease the number of possible egg related strategys? On top of that, it decreases the versatility and mobility of zerg by forcing them to return units to their base to have them morphed, which is really against the idea behind zerg. Their main strength in SC1 was their mobility.

Example: In a zergling run-by versus protoss, the player could leave 2 baneling eggs to morph on the ramp, blocking the protoss from sending zlots to save his probes. You can't do this if the spawning pool morph mechanic is implemented.

Starcraft has always been about unit abilities and not base abilities, I don't think this should change if we want a game as dynamic as the original.
[SECRET FONT] "Dragoon bunker"
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-18 21:29:34
October 17 2008 05:06 GMT
#10



Additional creep mechanics

So I had a couple of other ideas on how to use creep and I just thought I would jot some of them down for you guys. We are going to develop these in full tomorrow. Until then let’s get your initial impressions.

One of the core tenets of blizzard games is easy to learn difficult to master. Some criticism of many macro mechanics proposed both by the community and blizzard developers has centered on overcomplication. What follows is one philosophy to addressing this overcomplication.

If you are going to make a player learn a new mechanic giving them many different ways of using it.


Ok so the basics are you click on certain zerg buildings and then your cursor turns into a paintbrush tool. Any creep you drag this paintbrush over gains special properties. You can think of this as a building casting an ability through the creep. We are going to investigate how the UI can be used to facilitate this. Some ideas that have been proposed include increasing the cursor scroll while using this paintbrush or perhaps incorporating the minimap to some degree. We will also look at how UI modifications affect the feel of the mechanic.

Regulation: Time limit, creep “paint” or some other resource?

The zerg playstyle more than any other race centers on manipulating huge numbers of units. One idea that was brought up was that if you wanted to affect many units at once the best method was area of effect mechanics. From there we sought to tie them to base activities.

Different color schemes when areas of creep are under different creep effects. Lets start with orange for the darkswarm ability since that is the color of darkswarm. You guys wanna vote on the rest?

We will also investigate what strategic options this opens up.
Ex. Bringing creep to overlord dropped creep to create a building. You now have a forward base island where zerg units can benefit from that buildings special creep ability.


Darkswarm Creep Ability:
Darkswarm cloud leaks out of creep. No range damage under darkswarm.

Epinepox Ability:
Zerg players units move faster on affected creep.
Can we improve on this?

Zerg Extend Creep Ability:
Generates new creep where you sweep the paint brush. Permanent or temporary?

Heal Buildings Creep Ability:
Player clicks zerg building, gets paint brush and brushes it over creep just like all other creep abilities except this ability affects buildings. Heals them.

Nydus Suction Ability:
Affected creep reaches up and envelops all of zerg players units on said creep. After completely enveloping them it pulls them directly into the ground. (Who remembers that bed sheet scene from the grudge were she looks down and the thing grabs her and pulls her into the sheets and they go flat? Yah like that) Player then creates nydus worm on different section of creep (say in an enemy’s base) and zerg units start popping out of there.
(Editors Note: This ability sucks!)
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
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