EPTAlso of the people on this forum, do you think its a good or bad idea for the EU to form its on collective army, or each country in the EU to have its own separate army? I honestly haven't put any thoughts into this and have no idea what the pro's and con's are really.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 924
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Taelshin
Canada420 Posts
Also of the people on this forum, do you think its a good or bad idea for the EU to form its on collective army, or each country in the EU to have its own separate army? I honestly haven't put any thoughts into this and have no idea what the pro's and con's are really. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35167 Posts
On November 10 2018 12:27 Taelshin wrote: Wasn't he commenting about them sighting america as a potential enemy? I don't think id like anyone to sight Canada as a potential enemy. Also of the people on this forum, do you think its a good or bad idea for the EU to form its on collective army, or each country in the EU to have its own separate army? I honestly haven't put any thoughts into this and have no idea what the pro's and con's are really. Don't know too much about the politics of the area, though I think it would make sense - at least on some level - to be less dependent/beholden to the US. Especially when we keep trying to do dumb shit. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14104 Posts
You'd think with all the issues they have with the euro they would see the issues of trying to cooperate on a grand and complicated scale without a unified policy-making structure. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
So seeing EU politicians going slowly from "we can't trust the US anymore" to "they're a potential threat, much less than China and Russia but potential nontheless" shouldn't really be surprising. On wether or not I like the idea: yeah I do. At the very least when in comes to research and funding. There's no need for Italy, France and Germany all to have 3 independant programs to make a new fighter jet, tank or whatever else. But tbh I don't mind it beyond that either. We already do cooperate a lot between some nations, say dutch + germans for example so I don't see any issues aside from public support. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14104 Posts
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warding
Portugal2394 Posts
In an Eurasian super continent where Russia and China don't necessarily share Europe's rules based views on international policy, having the ability to project military power seems to be to be quite important for Europe. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22094 Posts
But I understand this level of thought is well beyond Trump. Long have there been complaints about how Trump was destroying US-EU relations. This is a logical step in that chain. And also why an EU Army is more likely now then ever before. Its been brought up before but its expensive and we never needed one because big brother US had our back. But our brother got hooked on drugs and isn't there for us anymore, so we need to take care of ourselves. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On November 10 2018 08:17 Simberto wrote: Wait what really? All this time when we were making fun of Trump's nonsensical demands on NATO countries paying more into their military, what Trump was actually thinking is that the military money is tribute to the US?I think Trump might have a very skewed idea of what Nato is. From what i can tell from quotes like that, he seems to think (or want his base to think) that Nato is basically the US army. And that other countries pay money to Nato (and the US) for them to protect the country. But those countries skip out on their bills. It is very weird. Aaah, it all makes sense now. Anyways at the moment I don't really see an EU army happening. France is all for an integrated military capable of projecting power overseas in combined forces, whilst Germany is happy to see whatever random groups can be allocated to it and just want to save on admin costs. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
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Broetchenholer
Germany1951 Posts
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micronesia
United States24753 Posts
On November 11 2018 00:48 Broetchenholer wrote: It makes even less sense when you compare the military spending of a hegemonical superpower that tries to extend it's power all around the globe with a group of nations that want to defend themselves on their border and at best stabilize the areas around them. Not to try to excuse the U.S. for every one of its actions involving itself internationally, but let me ask whose responsibility it is to maintain freedom of the seas and airways beyond the areas around Europe and the USA? The USA thinks it needs to play an unrivaled role in this, in part because its allies have other priorities, all the while using words like hegemonical. | ||
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KwarK
United States43582 Posts
On November 11 2018 00:58 micronesia wrote: Not to try to excuse the U.S. for every one of its actions involving itself internationally, but let me ask whose responsibility it is to maintain freedom of the seas and airways beyond the areas around Europe and the USA? The USA thinks it needs to play an unrivaled role in this, in part because its allies have other priorities, all the while using words like hegemonical. And if they were out chasing pirates off the coast of Somalia that’d be relevant. But they can’t drop a hundred billion dollars in Iraq and then demand to know why Germany isn’t chipping in. | ||
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micronesia
United States24753 Posts
On November 11 2018 01:05 KwarK wrote: And if they were out chasing pirates off the coast of Somalia that’d be relevant. But they can’t drop a hundred billion dollars in Iraq and then demand to know why Germany isn’t chipping in. I agree but we were discussing military spending more generally than German spending on oppressing Iraqis, despite whatever bizarre claims Trump might be trying to make. Maintaining freedom of the seas is also way more than playing police officer in Somali pirate territory. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9277 Posts
Sure, it's a dick move from Trump from the European perspective, but there is no need to pretend he's a moron determined to bully Europe into giving him its lunch money. | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
On November 11 2018 01:20 Sent. wrote: I think it's obvious Trump doesn't actually expect anything specific from other NATO members. His supporters want to hear him say that those countries are useless as allies, and the fact that they don't meet that agreed percentage spending threshold is more than enough to convince them that they're correct. Sure, it's a dick move from Trump from the European perspective, but there is no need to pretend he's a moron determined to bully Europe into giving him its lunch money. There have been many mentions from people meeting with him that he hardly understands how NATO works | ||
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Sent.
Poland9277 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15737 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On November 11 2018 01:07 micronesia wrote: I agree but we were discussing military spending more generally than German spending on oppressing Iraqis, despite whatever bizarre claims Trump might be trying to make. Maintaining freedom of the seas is also way more than playing police officer in Somali pirate territory. And what does maintaining freedom of the seas actually entail? It's simply an American display of military power. Why should NATO for USA benefiting off their displaying of their naval power? As for the airways, for the most part USA pays no part in the costs of protecting anybody's airspace. So what exactly are you expecting NATO members to pay for exactly? It appears that off hand comment that is Trump playing to to base by demanding tribute is more and more accurate. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On November 11 2018 01:07 micronesia wrote: I agree but we were discussing military spending more generally than German spending on oppressing Iraqis, despite whatever bizarre claims Trump might be trying to make. Maintaining freedom of the seas is also way more than playing police officer in Somali pirate territory. "Maintaining freedom"... Can you stop with the propaganda techniques please? Let's call it "maintaining trade routes". + Show Spoiler [freedom] + | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On November 11 2018 01:30 Mohdoo wrote: I think/hope T_D is gonna end up deleted soon. The kind of anger they are stoking right now regarding the midterm voting is really scary to see. People are being actively radicalized on one of the biggest websites around. This is so sad to watch. I would think there would be a point where Reddit administrators would have to step in. I understand "freedom of speech" and all that, but along the same lines of a bunch of social media platforms banning Alex Jones after some of the stunts he's pulled that resulted in people getting death threats, there becomes a point where it is actually dangerous to allow The_Donald to continue in its current form. Given that a man mailed bombs to a bunch of prominent figures of what he views as the opposition, we already know that these schemes to radicalize people on Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, and elsewhere are a real thing that can have serious consequences. | ||
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