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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 923

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14904 Posts
November 09 2018 22:04 GMT
#18441
Her caucus always votes the way she wants. Even during Obamacare repeal votes she didn’t have a single person break ranks

She’s effective as fuck and she’s a great target for the ire of the right, allowing others to be just as liberal without the giant crosshairs or rancor towards them
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
November 09 2018 22:06 GMT
#18442
So now that the WSJ's come out with solid evidence of Trump's involvement in the hush money to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal, what is the likelihood of him being actually indicted for these crimes? I saw one line in the article that said it may have violated campaign finance laws, so it doesn't appear to be a sure thing

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/09/politics/trump-cohen-payments-women/index.html
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
November 09 2018 22:10 GMT
#18443
--- Nuked ---
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14104 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-09 22:12:00
November 09 2018 22:11 GMT
#18444
What did the Irish republican army have to do with the election?

Edit awh Jimmi beat me while I was trying to be thinking off a good joke.

Its oddly not the first time I've seen the IRA NRA mixup.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-09 22:17:10
November 09 2018 22:16 GMT
#18445
That is the way I read it, also. In fact I started looking around to see why I hadn't heard about their apparent digital revival, and why they might be targeting NYC.

I think we need a new acronym. I'm sure Putin planned this as well, the bastard.
plasmidghost
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium16168 Posts
November 09 2018 22:16 GMT
#18446
On November 10 2018 07:10 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2018 06:35 plasmidghost wrote:
On November 10 2018 05:05 Ben... wrote:
On November 10 2018 01:17 plasmidghost wrote:
Call me paranoid if you will, but I feel like the Russian propaganda bots are deeply rooted in reddit already. Most people there just assume that all the Russian propaganda that gets pushed is pro-Trump, but the goal of Russia is to fracture the US, so they don't care who they're pushing propaganda for, they just want people to be outraged

I've been doing some data science-y work on 538's dataset of three million tweets from the Internet Research Agency (the Russian troll farm) and am in the process of writing a paper on it. Here's some fun stats about these tweets: based on 538's classification of the tweets, of the 2.9 million tweets in the dataset, about 700,000 are the typical obvious right wing tweets. The set also contains around 420,000 left wing tweets, a whole bunch of Russian tweets, and then the remaining tweets that are "other".

The right wing tweets are exactly what you'd expect; lots of linking to external sites/meme sharing, RTing of popular right wing pundits, and a ton of engagement with popular conservative hashtags (the top three being #MAGA obviously, #tcot which is top conservatives on Twitter, and #pjnet, which is similar to #tcot). Most of these accounts are the ones you think of when you see the obvious bot accounts on twitter. They're quite aggressively written and designed to fire people up.

Where things get much eerier and more uncomfortable are the left wing tweets and the "other" tweets. A lot of the left wing tweets are written in a completely different voice than the right wing tweets. They aren't nearly as transparent about their deceptiveness. The right wing accounts often literally only talk about politics, while the left wing accounts engage in different topics along with politics, like music, TV, and other forms of media. Reading through the tweets, I found it creepy how hard it was to tell that some of these accounts weren't real. While there are blatantly obvious accounts, for most, they seemed no different than any other unverified Twitter account except when engaging in political topics.

The "other" section is where things get weird. A whole bunch of the "other" section is literal fake news accounts, but not in the Trumpian "fake news" way but literally news accounts not associated with any organization posting mostly real-looking fake news, often interspersed with actual real news stories. There's an incredibly detailed New York City local news account that from what I understand posted news of events that actually happened in NYC for years but was run by the IRA. The tip off that these accounts are suspicious is that when there is politics-related news topics, they can sometimes seem fairly biased in their headlines. I downloaded Twitter's set of 9+ million IRA tweets and found a whole bunch more similar news accounts, but dating back a long time (most of them follow a template of sorts). Another common thing seen in the "other" section was tweets created purely to amplify hashtags and game Twitter's systems. There are thousands upon thousands of these tweets as well.

And that's just one platform. So yes, I do think you are right to be paranoid about them being on Reddit. They probably are on there and have been for a long time. Same with Facebook and a lot of other social media sites and comment sections. At this point, it suffices to say that anything you see on social media, reddit or forums, you should take with a gigantic grain of salt unless it is someone you know or is verified to be who they say they are.

Wow, that's a great response, I'd like to see the paper when you have it completed. I made a pretty big mistake of being on Twitter way too much during the 2016 election and I wonder if those accounts had influenced my thinking any. Judging by the sheer amount of content the IRA pumped, I'm sure they did


Why are we blaming the Irish for all this?

+ Show Spoiler +
I can't help but read IRA as Irish Republican Army, and lesser so the retirement account.

I made the same mistake lol, I had completely forgotten about the Russian IRA when I first read it
Yugoslavia will always live on in my heart
riotjune
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States3394 Posts
November 09 2018 22:17 GMT
#18447
On November 10 2018 07:04 KOFgokuon wrote:
Her caucus always votes the way she wants. Even during Obamacare repeal votes she didn’t have a single person break ranks

She’s effective as fuck and she’s a great target for the ire of the right, allowing others to be just as liberal without the giant crosshairs or rancor towards them

So that's it, what she some kinda dark knight? Thought she was qualified because nobody else wants or is doing the job.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14104 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-09 22:29:32
November 09 2018 22:28 GMT
#18448
On November 10 2018 07:17 riotjune wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2018 07:04 KOFgokuon wrote:
Her caucus always votes the way she wants. Even during Obamacare repeal votes she didn’t have a single person break ranks

She’s effective as fuck and she’s a great target for the ire of the right, allowing others to be just as liberal without the giant crosshairs or rancor towards them

So that's it, what she some kinda dark knight? Thought she was qualified because nobody else wants or is doing the job.

Shes low key also able to fundraise like no one else not just for her but for anyone she deigns to help.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 09 2018 22:34 GMT
#18449
On November 10 2018 07:17 riotjune wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2018 07:04 KOFgokuon wrote:
Her caucus always votes the way she wants. Even during Obamacare repeal votes she didn’t have a single person break ranks

She’s effective as fuck and she’s a great target for the ire of the right, allowing others to be just as liberal without the giant crosshairs or rancor towards them

So that's it, what she some kinda dark knight? Thought she was qualified because nobody else wants or is doing the job.

No, she is just good at getting bills passed and moving things through the chamber. The if you watched the legendary FBI agent hearings, you would see that the Republicans often don't know the rules of their own committees and simply rely on the authority of the majority to prevent things from moving forward. They repeatedly objected to actions by the democrats, only to be challenged to cite the rule that objection was based on and fail to cite it.

During the Bush era, the Republican congresses were legendary for being the least productive congresses in history. They topped themselves for three years running, doing less each year. Because the politics of obstruction to gain power Newt Gingrich, slowly lost the talent set of effective legislators until they championing Paul Mother Fucking Ryan as some legislative wonder kin. Paul Ryan.

When the Democrats took the House in 2006, it was like someone hit the nitro button and bills started flying through the chamber. And all the Republicans did was whine that Democrats were not letting them take part in the process. The reality was that the Republicans burned all their bridges and were bad at their jobs.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8232 Posts
November 09 2018 22:45 GMT
#18450
On November 10 2018 07:06 plasmidghost wrote:
So now that the WSJ's come out with solid evidence of Trump's involvement in the hush money to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal, what is the likelihood of him being actually indicted for these crimes? I saw one line in the article that said it may have violated campaign finance laws, so it doesn't appear to be a sure thing

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/09/politics/trump-cohen-payments-women/index.html


This and the article about tax evasion a few weeks back are huge findings which..won't be talked about a week from now. Everyone already knew this. Finding evidence for it isn't shocking in the least, and people in positions to do anything about it doesn't care. They know what he's about.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-11-09 22:51:18
November 09 2018 22:49 GMT
#18451
can someone explain this for me?

PARIS (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump lashed out at French President Emmanuel Macron on Friday, saying it was “very insulting” for him to suggest Europe should create its own army to protect itself from potential adversaries.
[...]
“Very insulting, but perhaps Europe should first pay its fair share of NATO, which the U.S. subsidizes greatly,” Trump added, returning to his repeated demand that European nations do more to help fund the Western alliance.

source: www.reuters.com

isn't that exactly what Trump is asking for? More EU spending on military, right? Why is he against this lol

//edit: nvm, Macron mentioned the US as a potential threat alongside Russia and China. I guess that's what ticked Trump off but still, he should be happy about that, no?
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
November 09 2018 22:56 GMT
#18452
--- Nuked ---
Nouar
Profile Joined May 2009
France3270 Posts
November 09 2018 22:56 GMT
#18453
On November 10 2018 07:49 Toadesstern wrote:
can someone explain this for me?

Show nested quote +
PARIS (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump lashed out at French President Emmanuel Macron on Friday, saying it was “very insulting” for him to suggest Europe should create its own army to protect itself from potential adversaries.
[...]
“Very insulting, but perhaps Europe should first pay its fair share of NATO, which the U.S. subsidizes greatly,” Trump added, returning to his repeated demand that European nations do more to help fund the Western alliance.

source: www.reuters.com

isn't that exactly what Trump is asking for? More EU spending on military, right? Why is he against this lol

//edit: nvm, Macron mentioned the US as a potential threat alongside Russia and China. I guess that's what ticked Trump off but still, he should be happy about that, no?

No. Only Trump is allowed to think of someone else as an enemy, in Trumpworld (which he did, speaking about Europe, a while ago). And a european army isn't NATO, so the US wouldn't benefit (directly in operations) and it would probably dilute investment in NATO.
Won't happen anyway, Macron is like the only one talking about that... Declaring the US among the threats is fun to me though, way to piss Trump off xD
NoiR
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22095 Posts
November 09 2018 23:00 GMT
#18454
On November 10 2018 07:45 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2018 07:06 plasmidghost wrote:
So now that the WSJ's come out with solid evidence of Trump's involvement in the hush money to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal, what is the likelihood of him being actually indicted for these crimes? I saw one line in the article that said it may have violated campaign finance laws, so it doesn't appear to be a sure thing

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/09/politics/trump-cohen-payments-women/index.html


This and the article about tax evasion a few weeks back are huge findings which..won't be talked about a week from now. Everyone already knew this. Finding evidence for it isn't shocking in the least, and people in positions to do anything about it doesn't care. They know what he's about.
Last I heard the NY tax authority opened an investigation as a result of the NYT article, sounds to me like the 'people in positions' are doing something about it.

It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11749 Posts
November 09 2018 23:17 GMT
#18455
On November 10 2018 07:56 Nouar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2018 07:49 Toadesstern wrote:
can someone explain this for me?

PARIS (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump lashed out at French President Emmanuel Macron on Friday, saying it was “very insulting” for him to suggest Europe should create its own army to protect itself from potential adversaries.
[...]
“Very insulting, but perhaps Europe should first pay its fair share of NATO, which the U.S. subsidizes greatly,” Trump added, returning to his repeated demand that European nations do more to help fund the Western alliance.

source: www.reuters.com

isn't that exactly what Trump is asking for? More EU spending on military, right? Why is he against this lol

//edit: nvm, Macron mentioned the US as a potential threat alongside Russia and China. I guess that's what ticked Trump off but still, he should be happy about that, no?

No. Only Trump is allowed to think of someone else as an enemy, in Trumpworld (which he did, speaking about Europe, a while ago). And a european army isn't NATO, so the US wouldn't benefit (directly in operations) and it would probably dilute investment in NATO.
Won't happen anyway, Macron is like the only one talking about that... Declaring the US among the threats is fun to me though, way to piss Trump off xD


I think Trump might have a very skewed idea of what Nato is. From what i can tell from quotes like that, he seems to think (or want his base to think) that Nato is basically the US army. And that other countries pay money to Nato (and the US) for them to protect the country. But those countries skip out on their bills.

It is very weird.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43582 Posts
November 10 2018 00:24 GMT
#18456
On November 10 2018 08:17 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2018 07:56 Nouar wrote:
On November 10 2018 07:49 Toadesstern wrote:
can someone explain this for me?

PARIS (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump lashed out at French President Emmanuel Macron on Friday, saying it was “very insulting” for him to suggest Europe should create its own army to protect itself from potential adversaries.
[...]
“Very insulting, but perhaps Europe should first pay its fair share of NATO, which the U.S. subsidizes greatly,” Trump added, returning to his repeated demand that European nations do more to help fund the Western alliance.

source: www.reuters.com

isn't that exactly what Trump is asking for? More EU spending on military, right? Why is he against this lol

//edit: nvm, Macron mentioned the US as a potential threat alongside Russia and China. I guess that's what ticked Trump off but still, he should be happy about that, no?

No. Only Trump is allowed to think of someone else as an enemy, in Trumpworld (which he did, speaking about Europe, a while ago). And a european army isn't NATO, so the US wouldn't benefit (directly in operations) and it would probably dilute investment in NATO.
Won't happen anyway, Macron is like the only one talking about that... Declaring the US among the threats is fun to me though, way to piss Trump off xD


I think Trump might have a very skewed idea of what Nato is. From what i can tell from quotes like that, he seems to think (or want his base to think) that Nato is basically the US army. And that other countries pay money to Nato (and the US) for them to protect the country. But those countries skip out on their bills.

It is very weird.

There’s a precedent for that system, the Delian League. It took about a decade to go from “instead of paying for a fleet just send us the money and we’ll protect you with our enlarged fleet” to attacking league members who wouldn’t pay their protection money. Funded the Parthenon though.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
November 10 2018 02:20 GMT
#18457
I do agree that when Trump is saying "nato members aren't paying their fair share", it does sound like "nato members should pay us to protect them" rather than say, nato members increasing their own military spending when he makes statements like that.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
KlaCkoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Sweden1661 Posts
November 10 2018 02:44 GMT
#18458
On November 10 2018 07:49 Toadesstern wrote:
can someone explain this for me?

Show nested quote +
PARIS (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump lashed out at French President Emmanuel Macron on Friday, saying it was “very insulting” for him to suggest Europe should create its own army to protect itself from potential adversaries.
[...]
“Very insulting, but perhaps Europe should first pay its fair share of NATO, which the U.S. subsidizes greatly,” Trump added, returning to his repeated demand that European nations do more to help fund the Western alliance.

source: www.reuters.com

isn't that exactly what Trump is asking for? More EU spending on military, right? Why is he against this lol

//edit: nvm, Macron mentioned the US as a potential threat alongside Russia and China. I guess that's what ticked Trump off but still, he should be happy about that, no?

The last time there was serious impetus for a unified European military force was during the Clinton adminstration. The US was equally against it then and lobbied very hard to make sure it didn't happen. Making sure there is no potential threat to the us in Europe has been the obvious geopolitical decision since 1914.
NATO has always been meant as a force multipler for the US military. I guess that's why the French never quite liked it.
Someone please correct me if I misremember but wasn't it adenhauer who promised degaulle after his humiliation during the sues crisis that eventually a United Europe would be their answer ? Xp.
At the end of the day i find it a bit silly, US interests of those of the various European nations are aligned in almost all ways that matter. Europe, united or not, will be an ally against China, not an advesary. Bolton or whoever told Trump to be mad about this is being short sighted.



"Voice or no voice the people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders ... All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6263 Posts
November 10 2018 03:11 GMT
#18459
But they can't push around European countries as easily when United. Always easier to deal with individual countries.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35167 Posts
November 10 2018 03:14 GMT
#18460
On November 10 2018 12:11 RvB wrote:
But they can't push around European countries as easily when United. Always easier to deal with individual countries.

Really just reminds me of the anecdote about Trump, Merkel, and trade deals needing to go through the EU.
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